Freedom isn't free, it costs folk like you and me...

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*Sigh* this again. Content updates are not free; they are "at no additional cost".

Companies love to confuse "free" with "at no additional cost" because "free" looks better - so much so they'll put it in a video in big letters - but "free" and "at no additional cost" do not mean the same thing. The content updates are "at no additional cost" because, since the production of the updates isn't free (staff still have to be paid), their production has to be factored into the whole production cost. They may appear, from our point of view at least, to be "free", but try availing yourself of them without purchasing the original game and you will quickly find out how "free" the updates are. (Spoiler: They're not "free").

The most important thing to understand here is Sony (being PD's parent) is a business, not a benefactor. As much as Sony like us to feel they care about us, and "free content updates" certainly makes it feel that way, the bottom line is they only really care about their bottom line; there is no "Feelings" column in their annual profits report. Likewise feelings don't pay for production costs (which obviously, these days, doesn't stop once the game is released), those costs have to be covered by someone; can you guess who that is? Remember Sony is a business, not a benefactor.
 
*Sigh* this again. Content updates are not free; they are "at no additional cost".

Companies love to confuse "free" with "at no additional cost" because "free" looks better - so much so they'll put it in a video in big letters - but "free" and "at no additional cost" do not mean the same thing. The content updates are "at no additional cost" because, since the production of the updates isn't free (staff still have to be paid), their production has to be factored into the whole production cost. They may appear, from our point of view at least, to be "free", but try availing yourself of them without purchasing the original game and you will quickly find out how "free" the updates are. (Spoiler: They're not "free").

The most important thing to understand here is Sony (being PD's parent) is a business, not a benefactor. As much as Sony like us to feel they care about us, and "free content updates" certainly makes it feel that way, the bottom line is they only really care about their bottom line; there is no "Feelings" column in their annual profits report. Likewise feelings don't pay for production costs (which obviously, these days, doesn't stop once the game is released), those costs have to be covered by someone; can you guess who that is? Remember Sony is a business, not a benefactor.
This post was a complete non-education, a near miss and a complete fail. No need to thank me dude!
 
*Sigh* this again. Content updates are not free; they are "at no additional cost".

Companies love to confuse "free" with "at no additional cost" because "free" looks better - so much so they'll put it in a video in big letters - but "free" and "at no additional cost" do not mean the same thing. The content updates are "at no additional cost" because, since the production of the updates isn't free (staff still have to be paid), their production has to be factored into the whole production cost. They may appear, from our point of view at least, to be "free", but try availing yourself of them without purchasing the original game and you will quickly find out how "free" the updates are. (Spoiler: They're not "free").

The most important thing to understand here is Sony (being PD's parent) is a business, not a benefactor. As much as Sony like us to feel they care about us, and "free content updates" certainly makes it feel that way, the bottom line is they only really care about their bottom line; there is no "Feelings" column in their annual profits report. Likewise feelings don't pay for production costs (which obviously, these days, doesn't stop once the game is released), those costs have to be covered by someone; can you guess who that is? Remember Sony is a business, not a benefactor.

uhh? lets just say you are splitting hairs, you are of the chart if you believe that anyone here thinks these FREE updates are provided for the greater good of humanity. We have discussed the economics of the game before and these updates are a big part of it. But for me, as someone that paid for the game when it launched i think i can be forgiven to consider these updates FREE since i wasn't promised anything and didn't expect anything.

And you are right they aren't free to make they are made for PROFIT :-)

Has anyone done any extensive test on the revised physics?

I went to the Green Hell, i find the car less slippery and a tad more controllable/predictable not so twitchy and less mid corner understeer, i guess you could sum it up in more mechanical grib, i did not notice any change to downforce. But that was just the BMW on the Circuit challenge. My first impressions are 100% positive.
 
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uhh? lets just say you are splitting hairs, you are of the chart if you believe that anyone here thinks these FREE updates are provided for the greater good of humanity. We have discussed the economics of the game before and these updates are a big part of it. But for me, as someone that paid for the game when it launched i think i can be forgiven to consider these updates FREE since i wasn't promised anything and didn't expect anything.

And you are right they aren't free to make they are made for PROFIT :-)

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So what you're saying is they're free.

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We obviously need big pictures and letters here:

upload_2019-1-17_18-2-17.png


These are newspapers that you do not need to pay for at the place of availability.

They cost money to produce for which the publisher(s) requires an income.

The publisher(s) only source of income is businesses buying advertising space.

The newspapers availability, to you, is not dependent on a prior purchase.

The newspapers are therefore provided to you for FREE.




This is (representative of) a content update that you do not need to pay for at the point of availability.

They cost money to produce for which the publisher requires an income.

The publishers only source of income is you, via your game purchase.

The content updates availability, to you, is dependant on a prior purchase; the game.

The content updates are therefore provided to you at NO ADDITIONAL CHARGE.







 
Just want to give my piece on the whole “update isn’t free” thing. Here’s how I see it.

You bought the game for however much it was when you purchased it, as is - as advertised, everything which was shown is in the game. It was very clearly stated that Sport was taking a new direction and that it’d have less cars in at launch as they rebuilt many from scratch (although as of now they have figured out a way to convert GT6 premiums over to the PS4 and GTS AFAIK, which is great since they already looked really good + helps with adding cars while working on new ones).

Your PS4 does not send you to the checkout each time an update releases. None of the new content was in the game before launch and taken out to add as updates (which is a terrible practice anyway but makes no sense here since they never charged for them), all updates are by definition, free of charge. I love it and am SUPER thankful to PD, because if they went the GT5 route, they very well could’ve charged for a few of the updates but they chose not to.

The whole argument about PS Plus means the updates aren’t free doesn’t hold much water, IMO. You can play GTS with many of the features now without PS Plus, just as long as you have an internet connection. Even without internet you can access GT League and all of the single player stuff.

Sure, the “main” component of the game requires PS Plus, but so does pretty much every online mode of every game on the PS4 (besides F2P). This was known from the onset. My point is, the game delivered on everything it set out to do at launch, all these updates are simply many (tasty) cherries on top of the cake. Some cherries were more needed than most for a bit of extra flavour maybe, but what I’m saying is that the game was complete to begin with.
 
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The newspapers availability, to you, is not dependent on a prior purchase.

The newspapers are therefore provided to you for FREE.
But I had at and sleep so I could survive as a human being so that I would be able to walk to the newspaper stand. That requires food and shelter which costs money. Your entire livelihood is dependent on prior purchases.


Anyone who's saying these updates aren't "free" is technically correct, but they're still missing the point.
 
View attachment 793166



View attachment 793156



We obviously need big pictures and letters here:

View attachment 793160

These are newspapers that you do not need to pay for at the place of availability.

They cost money to produce for which the publisher(s) requires an income.

The publisher(s) only source of income is businesses buying advertising space.

The newspapers availability, to you, is not dependent on a prior purchase.

The newspapers are therefore provided to you for FREE.




This is (representative of) a content update that you do not need to pay for at the point of availability.

They cost money to produce for which the publisher requires an income.

The publishers only source of income is you, via your game purchase.

The content updates availability, to you, is dependant on a prior purchase; the game.

The content updates are therefore provided to you at NO ADDITIONAL CHARGE.







The first one is dependant on prior purchase too, if business company does not buy the advertising space, there won, t be any free newspaper all around.

The point is, does not matter whether it is free or at no additional cost, you won't be charged for it. And that's what matters here.

PS for all: PS Plus sub does not have anything with this topic as it is a completely independent transaction with a totally different subject.

PS2: PD had something in mind with this game and they told it from beginning - online based e-sports racing game, not a sequel to the franchise. People got angry for content which they've been told they get (not all people to be honest). They demanded more, so PD started to add further content via updates, yet some people cannot be pleased at any cost as I can see. But I don't blame them as they have the right to express themselves in whatever way they want (if they stay within the site codex).

I can say for myself, that each and every update, all the added content is a plus to a game I like, so I'm happy for what I get. There are days I want to test cars, so I pick whatever track I feel to test on in time trial mode. There are days, when I want to race, so I chose sport mode or lobby for online racing, or the offline racing in the arcade section, there are days I feel lazy so I can make a livery or anything else. SSR-X will be good for these days, when you just sit behind your wheel and push throttle to the max.

BTW, races on this track are really great fun, if you have balanced field. Plenty of room, plenty of overtaking, you never know who's gonna win, one of the tracks, where alien to beginner ranks have no meaning and one does not get frustrated as pushing their limits, yet see others pushing away from them. It might be boring in 1P mode, but can't be boring in MP mode.
 
*Sigh* this again. Content updates are not free; they are "at no additional cost".

Companies love to confuse "free" with "at no additional cost" because "free" looks better - so much so they'll put it in a video in big letters - but "free" and "at no additional cost" do not mean the same thing. The content updates are "at no additional cost" because, since the production of the updates isn't free (staff still have to be paid), their production has to be factored into the whole production cost. They may appear, from our point of view at least, to be "free", but try availing yourself of them without purchasing the original game and you will quickly find out how "free" the updates are. (Spoiler: They're not "free").

The most important thing to understand here is Sony (being PD's parent) is a business, not a benefactor. As much as Sony like us to feel they care about us, and "free content updates" certainly makes it feel that way, the bottom line is they only really care about their bottom line; there is no "Feelings" column in their annual profits report. Likewise feelings don't pay for production costs (which obviously, these days, doesn't stop once the game is released), those costs have to be covered by someone; can you guess who that is? Remember Sony is a business, not a benefactor.
You posit a half argument here by arguing as though you know how GT Sport has been costed and what budget the development costs of these DLC updates are taken from and in the process, failing to see the bigger picture and lack of logic in your argument.

Before we get into that though, when GT Sport launched there was no offer of free DLC, it did not launch with this structure in place, announced or guaranteed. To date, we have no guarantee that the free DLC will continue, January "could" be the last of it and Februarys "could" be paid for DLC we assume they are not becuase we have not been told they are not, but we could get an annoucment that (inset month here) is the last free DLC we will receive and it will be paid after that at any time. In contrast we may not have to pay for any DLC in GT Sports lifetime. Based on this, purchases of GT Sport were not and should not have been made on the non-existant promise of over a years worth of free DLC content. Therefore the DLC was not offered as part of the oriignal purchase (a la a season pass) and is free. No additional cost = free as far as the end user is concerned.

To claim it is not free because it cost money to make is just being difficult. Free is relative, nothing is completely free, everything will cost some element of time or effort at the very least, including sex, so why have the word free in any language if it is an impossible paradox no one will ever experience. At the end of the day if something is free to the recipient be it a newspaper or DLC, then that person can quite rightly refer to it as “free”. So let’s put away the attempt to be too clever because it doesn’t work and not be over anal about the definition of free because no one is misusing that word here when they say this DLC is free.

Now I do understand the point you are trying to make but I wholly disagree with the logic, or lack of, that it is based on. Additionally there are plenty of scenarios that we can "assume" are correct in this instance rather than the one you present. You claim the cost of the DLC is included in the original price of the game, this can be disputed quite simply for one reason, the game cost no more than other new games and was sold as a complete game.

The other point is that there is no way we can know what budget the development of this DLC is coming from. If you know about business you will know a company will have different budgets for different things, a company like Sony will have budgets for things they will knowingly and willingly make a loss on, a loss they perhaps can or plan to absorb from elsewhere. There is nothing to say this DLC isn’t coming from the development budget for GT7 or what ever it will be called, but we can just as easily assume it is as we can assume it isn’t. We do not know. Therefore I revert to the most obvious point which is that as this DLC is free to the end user, they are absolutely right to call it free.
 
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But I had at and sleep so I could survive as a human being so that I would be able to walk to the newspaper stand. That requires food and shelter which costs money. Your entire livelihood is dependent on prior purchases.

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Anyone who's saying these updates aren't "free" is technically correct
Technically is best kind of correct, but still correct. Thank you.

And ridiculously pedantic to the nth degree.
Pointing out that "free" is not the same as "no additional charge" is not pedantic. It is not even a matter of semantics. There is a fundamental difference between "free" and "no additional charge".

The first one is dependant on prior purchase too, if business company does not buy the advertising space, there won, t be any free newspaper all around.
What are you waffling on about? We're talking about "free" to the end user, the reader. Of course there will be no paper if advertisers don't buy advertising space, thats not even in question, but insofar as the cost to the end user it completely and utterly irrelevant. Nice try at mental gymnastics though. :rolleyes:

The point is, does not matter whether it is free or at no additional cost, you won't be charged for it. And that's what matters here.
No, what matters is that a large proportion of people on this site think that the updates are free, have convinced themselves that they are free, that we should be eternally grateful for whatever Sony/PD throw at us and the rest of us should shut our mouths. That is what matters.

As I have proven, the updates are not free; we are PD's only source of income, therefore, no matter how the budget is slide and diced, we have, whether we knew it in advance or not, paid for the updates. These things have to be costed. They have to. There is no escaping this, there is no denying this. That is how a business works. If you don't cost everything you will not have a business for very long. I really do not understand why this is so difficult for some of you to understand? This is not rocket science. Its not a difficult concept! The very fact that we are not being charged for the updates means PD have, again no matter how the budget is sliced and diced, planned and costed every single (regular) update. Again, and I cannot stress this enough, this is how a business works... or you do not have a business.

Some of you have, absolutely perfectly, illustrated why you are a marketeers wet dream; You've allowed marketeers to convince you that "no additional cost" means "free" and you will fall down on their sword defending whatever they feed you because you think, or more accurately feel, its "free".

It matters not one little bit if Sony choose to make less profit due to the provision of DLC, as an entertainment company those profits are ultimately derived from OUR money. Without OUR money Sony does NOT have a business.

To summarise; quit trying to trample on the rights of those who wish to complain with the "we can't complain because free" BS because the content updates are not 🤬 free.

I'm so nearly 🤬 done with this site, or at least this corner of it.
 
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To summarise; quit trying to trample on the rights of those who wish to complain with the "we can't complain because free" BS because the content updates are not 🤬 free.

Complaining about free updates isn't a right, it's a privilege. I bet there are thousands of children dying in third world countries every week who would be incredibly disappointed to see there are people in the upper society who whine and moan about things that don't even inconvenience them.
 
Technically is best kind of correct, but still correct.
Not really. You just seem to enjoy being a smartass. Pretty much everyone else here seems to understand what the term "free" entails in the context of downloadable game content, but you seemed to have decided to ignore that so you can tell people they're wrong, seemingly for no good reason.

No, what matters is that a large proportion of people on this site think that the updates are free, have convinced themselves that they are free, that we should be eternally grateful for whatever Sony/PD throw at us and the rest of us should shut our mouths. That is what matters.
This seems to be the only rational argument you've made so far. You could've just ignored the technicalities and gone straight to the point.
 
did you pay for the update? no. the update is free. why is this still going on? seems like some flat earth type of argument to me

the updates will never truly be free since PD and Sony use proprietary software and not free and open source software.
 
Complaining about free updates isn't a right, it's a privilege. I bet there are thousands of children dying in third world countries every week who would be incredibly disappointed to see there are people in the upper society who whine and moan about things that don't even inconvenience them.

Have you ever heard of the "fallacy of relative privation"? You have just done exactly what I complained about; the propensity of some on this site - or at least this corner of it - to attempt to suppress the opinions of others based on fallacy. Only instead of just using the "its free" argument you've escalated it by implying that any problem short of "dying children" is not worth discussing. What the hell is wrong with people in this corner of the site?!? Seriously?!

If you go to a restaurant, and they get your order wrong, do you not have the right to complain, even before you've paid for it, because there are millions of starving children in the world? Of course you have the right to complain. You're not going to sit there, stay quiet and eat whatever is given to you because "dying children". So please stop trying to use that logical fallacy here too!

Making it sound like "free" in general doesn't exist and it's some made up word.
Oh FFS! Again...
We obviously need big pictures and letters here:

View attachment 793160

These are newspapers that you do not need to pay for at the place of availability.

They cost money to produce for which the publisher(s) requires an income.

The publisher(s) only source of income is businesses buying advertising space.

The newspapers availability, to you, is not dependent on a prior purchase.

The newspapers are therefore provided to you for FREE.




This is (representative of) a content update that you do not need to pay for at the point of availability.

They cost money to produce for which the publisher requires an income.

The publishers only source of income is you, via your game purchase.

The content updates availability, to you, is dependant on a prior purchase; the game.

The content updates are therefore provided to you at NO ADDITIONAL CHARGE.

Free exists. "Free" and "No Additional Charge" are fundamentally different though.


Thanks @Famine, I seriously needed that chuckle! :lol::lol:

This seems to be the only rational argument you've made so far. You could've just ignored the technicalities and gone straight to the point.
Oh my 🤬 God. Have I entered some parallel "opposite world" dimension?!? You are proving my point for me; Just because you do not understand the difference between "free" and "no additional cost" does not give you the right to suppress my, or any else's, opinion of something that has been planned, costed and recovered from sales of the product we paid for! Are you getting this? A product we paid for! Again, because this obviously isn't getting through; the regular updates are completely planned and costed. Just because they may not have been announced before or even upon release of the main product itself does not change this. For Gods sake, even my dog could understand this... and my poor dog has been dead 10 years!

Look, you obviously need bright colours and/or pictures to get this, so here's both. No matter how the costs of production are sliced and diced the fact remains that the cost of producing the content updates has to be budgeted and has to be recovered from somewhere. If it is not you will not have a business for long. We, ultimately, are PD's source of income. We, ultimately, pay ALL production costs, including updates. Sony (hopefully) walks away with a nice chunk of change for their troubles:

income.png

Again, please note: the above figures are illustrative only.

The blue bar may, on the right hand side, grow or shrink a little (or a lot, depending on actual sales figures) but then so too will the green bar to match it. The red, and orange, bar(s) are fixed costs (or at least budgeted costs), those shouldn't move (if they do, those will be accounted for as unplanned costs and will eat into the profits). If you think, even for one second, that (regular) updates are not budgeted (no matter how they appear as costs, as illustrated above) then you, quite frankly, are living in Cloud Cuckoo Land (and I hope you don't run a business, especially if you have employees!).

From our perspective the most important bar here is the blue bar; we are the blue bar, or rather the blue bar is (was) our money. As long as that blue bar is longer than the red, and orange, bar(s) and the updates are not charged, then the cost of producing the updates is recovered from income (from us) and are made available to us at "no additional cost". They are not "free", their production costs are recovered from the income we provide. Do you see how this works yet?

So, again, the point I was trying to make is please stop trying to suppress others people opinions of, or complaints about, the content updates based on the "they're free" fallacy BS. They are not free and your lack of understanding of the fundamental difference between "free" and "no additional cost" does not change that.
 
Oh my 🤬 God. Have I entered some parallel "opposite world" dimension?!? You are proving my point for me; Just because you do not understand the difference between "free" and "no additional cost" does not give you the right to suppress my, or any else's, opinion of something that has been planned, costed and recovered from sales of the product we paid for!
And at what point was I trying to do so?

You seem to be of the opinion that just because the updates are free (or "no additional cost") doesn't mean that people shouldn't be able to criticize the content of said updates, like others have suggested. I agree with this and have mentioned so earlier in the thread.

All I am disagreeing with is your claim that the updates aren't "free" (in the context that the term is typically used).
 
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I've seen a lot of stupid things debated, but this free debate takes the cake. Can we move on, please?

Looking around Route X in photomode, I seen several points updated. Such as light poles, and sign pillars that were in the middle of the "alternate route", but are now out of the way. Whether it's something PD did for looks, or a sign of it possibly getting used someday, is yet to be seen. I thought it was interesting though.
 
MMX
I've seen a lot of stupid things debated, but this free debate takes the cake. Can we move on, please?
No. Its important because "its free" is used as a way of attempting to shut down discussion. Which is wrong.
 
You seem to be of the opinion that just because the updates are free (or "no additional cost") doesn't mean that people shouldn't be to criticize the content of said updates,
Wait... What? Either you don't know how to avoid confusing double negatives or I've 🤬 definitely entered a parallel "opposite world" dimension because I've consistently been arguing the complete opposite; as updates are paid for, as proven, and are provided at "no additional cost", as proven, we do have the right to give our opinions of, or complaints about, the content updates.

I'm beginning to suspect you are being deliberately obtuse in an effort to troll. At this point there can be no other explanation; nobody can be that stupid?!
 
Imagine going on passionate, swear fuelled rants arguing about the difference between something being “Free” and having “no additional cost” like there’s any massive discernible differences between the two that matter, surely this sub forum can’t sink any lower, right?



Oh, wait
 
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