Fuel consumption

[snowgt]

The real Daihatsu Move (4WD version) had a 32 30 liters fuel tank. A 24 Km / (30/8 liters) = 24/3.75 = 6.4 Km/l fuel consumption for a 180 hp car ran essentially at 100% throttle all the time (it's a drift setup) on a low average speed track is unreasonable.
Again, I've checked with several cars on online races (where fuel consumption is usually enabled), and the most plausible conclusion is that, like in GT4, all cars have the same large fuel tank. According to a quick calculation, as I wrote, all cars have a 120 liters fuel tank. You can try this out yourself in the Arcade mode by enabling fuel consumption on single races. NASCAR stock cars seem those with the higher fuel consumption (since they're the most powerful) among those included by default.

The fuel tank being 30 or 40 litres doesn't make much of a difference in the calculation. If anything, it makes it more plausible. With 30 litres, it means you had an effective consumption of about 16 l/100km, not 20 like my original estimate. And that's very plausible with an engine that is certainly not tuned for fuel-efficiency like a stock engine. In my opinion, the fact remains, that it simply stated the amount of fuel wrong that you were able to refill.

It could be that GT5's fuel-consumption model always takes an abstract 100% as its basis and fuel-consumption for each car is given by some factor. So, for instance, a car that's twice as thirsty as another one would have the same fuel-consumption factor, if it has a fuel tank that's twice as big. Why they would do it that way, I couldn't say though.

 

[shirakawaa]

I meant that 6.4 Km/l would be an unreasonably too low consumption in such conditions, not too high!
Also, since the car behavior is substantially different than in practice mode with fuel consumption disabled (the car feels like it's got a heavy rear end, acceleration is sensibly impaired), I'm very doubtful that the fuel refilled is stated wrongly.
Tomorrow I'll try to do some detailed tests in a more scientifical way.

 

[MonStar]

So yet more evidence that the GT physics engine is still 10 years behind the average PC game based on the gMotor engines.

Not taking fuel load, fuel consumption weight distribution into account is yet another point against thye "reality" of the "Real Driving Simulator".

Perhaps the game should be renamed the "Real Steering Simulator" - since that is about the only thing that is reality based - kind of.

Now for the basic driving fun, that is all one needs. I mean I have a blast with this game, but it is no sim..

WOOOWWW if you want your games that realistic, why not go out and drive a real car?

Every game claims to be 'this and that' get over it and enjoy the game.

 

[objp]

WOOOWWW if you want your games that realistic, why not go out and drive a real car?

Every game claims to be 'this and that' get over it and enjoy the game.

LOL. Fuel weight (location and amount) and consumption is extremely basic and necessary for the car to handle accurately.

 

[RC45]

WOOOWWW if you want your games that realistic, why not go out and drive a real car?

I do, but I also like to play the odd game now and again as well. Here is an exampl eof a car that exibits DRASTICALLY diff. behaviour and feel with a full tank vs an empty one.

Every game claims to be 'this and that' get over it and enjoy the game.

Then they shouldnt make false claims - and I do enjoy the game, but would enjoy it more if it met their claims

 

[MonStar]

LOL. Fuel weight (location and amount) and consumption is extremely basic and necessary for the car to handle accurately.

And haven't people already said fuel weight has affected there cars in this thread? It did so in GT4 also.

I do, but I also like to play the odd game now and again as well. Here is an exampl eof a car that exibits DRASTICALLY diff. behaviour and feel with a full tank vs an empty one.




Then they shouldnt make false claims - and I do enjoy the game, but would enjoy it more if it met their claims

I couldn't care less for that video, I drive a decent amount of cars in real life to know the handling differences of a car with a full tank and an empty one.

What you want though, is just stupid and is asking too much from a console. if you love the PC sims that much, play them.

 

[RC45]

I couldn't care less for that video, I drive a decent amount of cars in real life to know the handling differences of a car with a full tank and an empty one.

What you want though, is just stupid and is asking too much from a console. if you love the PC sims that much, play them.

So the bottomline is you now AGREE that the claim that GT5 is "the real driving simulator" is a bogus one - if they dont take into account the impact of fuel load then why call it a simulator of any note?

Glad to see you come round to the correct conclusion.

BTW, you want to know how I know that the in game behaviour of Porsche Turbo-style cars on track is pretty close to reality in both FM3 and GT5...?? (Not spot on, but pretty close?) - I know from personal experience



Look bloke, some of us with criticisms are making valid statements - this blind fanboy promotion and defense of the game is insane - a lot of us do enjoy the games, flaws and all - that doesnt mean we cant critique them - or compare them to our real world experiences now does it??

 

[psavi]

So the bottomline is you now AGREE that the claim that GT5 is "the real driving simulator" is a bogus one - if they dont take into account the impact of fuel load then why call it a simulator of any note?

Glad to see you come round to the correct conclusion.

*snip

Maybe, to feel less disappointed with PD, everyone should think of the phrase "the real driving simulator" not as a slogan, but as a goal. Think about it. They use this phrase since the first game, and that is no simulator by any means. But they are getting there. Every game they improve a bit (at least physics wise). Maybe Gran Turismo 10 will be as realistic as life.

 

[Owen.C93]

That doesn't matter. Rpm = rpm. The gearbox just puts it to the ground.

Hitting the rev limiter will cut fuel by alot.

 

[RC45]

Maybe, to feel less disappointed with PD, everyone should think of the phrase "the real driving simulator" not as a slogan, but as a goal. Think about it. They use this phrase since the first game, and that is no simulator by any means. But they are getting there. Every game they improve a bit (at least physics wise). Maybe Gran Turismo 10 will be as realistic as life.

You do make a very good point.

Perhaps they should hire a different spokesperson other than Kaz himself. As the creator of the dream he is always going to over promise, as he has his personal expectation which is also where we want to be - but deep down we all knew it would not be what was going to be delivered.

 

[Minty]

Although its electric, its the car that consumes its energy source the quickest

What do you mean "although"?

 

[Pierced Lead]

So the bottomline is you now AGREE that the claim that GT5 is "the real driving simulator" is a bogus one - if they dont take into account the impact of fuel load then why call it a simulator of any note?

Glad to see you come round to the correct conclusion.

BTW, you want to know how I know that the in game behaviour of Porsche Turbo-style cars on track is pretty close to reality in both FM3 and GT5...?? (Not spot on, but pretty close?) - I know from personal experience



Look bloke, some of us with criticisms are making valid statements - this blind fanboy promotion and defense of the game is insane - a lot of us do enjoy the games, flaws and all - that doesnt mean we cant critique them - or compare them to our real world experiences now does it??

I think we established a couple posts above you that fuel consumption and weight is calculated in the game.

 

[RC45]

I think we established a couple posts above you that fuel consumption and weight is calculated in the game.

Is it? Weight as well? And weight transfer of varying fuel loads over time?

How was this established? I know it is part of the car physics input and real time calculations in rFactor, because when you produce a car for the game engine, fuel tank volume and location are actual values you plug in as you tweak your cars physics.

 

[Pierced Lead]

Well it was there in GT4, I don't see why they would exclude it from GT5.

And according to SHIRAKAWA Akira, it is.

And if by the weight transfer you're referring to the liquid's movement within the tank as the car turns or accelerates, I'm not sure, though most probably it isn't calculated.

 

[garybee]

That doesn't matter. Rpm = rpm. The gearbox just puts it to the ground.

An engine revving at max RPM under no load is not using anywhere near as much fuel as one which is trying to accelerate a car. The engine under no load is only having to overcome internal frictional losses. It's the ammount of work the engine is doing that dictates it's fuel usage.

 

[HarryPotter]

Its 40mpg. The diesel Audi's make 40mpg at race speeds cranking out 800bhp. Hence the FIA implaced regulation on diesel cars to limit their tanks to 100 liters. Before they didn't pit that much and had enough power to walk away from anyone that dared race with them. After that rule though, everything seemed to change.

They most definitely don't put out 800+ BHP. Torque yes, horsepower no.

 

[magburner]

Maybe, to feel less disappointed with PD, everyone should think of the phrase "the real driving simulator" not as a slogan, but as a goal.

It has always been a goal. 👍

 

[MonStar]

So the bottomline is you now AGREE that the claim that GT5 is "the real driving simulator" is a bogus one - if they dont take into account the impact of fuel load then why call it a simulator of any note?

Glad to see you come round to the correct conclusion.

BTW, you want to know how I know that the in game behaviour of Porsche Turbo-style cars on track is pretty close to reality in both FM3 and GT5...?? (Not spot on, but pretty close?) - I know from personal experience



Look bloke, some of us with criticisms are making valid statements - this blind fanboy promotion and defense of the game is insane - a lot of us do enjoy the games, flaws and all - that doesnt mean we cant critique them - or compare them to our real world experiences now does it??

:applaud: You completely ignored everyone else's posts in this thread.

They've been saying its the 'real driving simulato' since GT1, did you play Gt1 and say, hang on, this viper doesn't handle like a viper? No numpty, its just a slogan to hype up there product, only a one minded person, over critical, annoying person like you would take it literally.

ITS JUST A GAME, relax and play it. Instead of saying 'oh but it doesn't calculate fuel distribution when im taking a corner, 'blah blah blah'.

Congrats, you drove a car around a track really fast, I dont care dude, it doesn't make your post any more valid.

 

[HarryPotter]

:applaud: You completely ignored everyone else's posts in this thread.

They've been saying its the 'real driving simulato' since GT1, did you play Gt1 and say, hang on, this viper doesn't handle like a viper? No numpty, its just a slogan to hype up there product, only a one minded person, over critical, annoying person like you would take it literally.

ITS JUST A GAME, relax and play it. Instead of saying 'oh but it doesn't calculate fuel distribution when im taking a corner, 'blah blah blah'.

Congrats, you drove a car around a track really fast, I dont care dude, it doesn't make your post any more valid.

How does it not make his post any more valid? He has real life experience. So if you came into my office and said I want this job but I'm just a douche that has access to the internet. The other guy walks in and says I have years of experience in this field who do you think I am going to hire?

Some of the people on here are quite ignorant.

 

[shirakawaa]

At the 15th lap of Daytona (4.023 Km) in my fully tuned Daihatsu Move SR-XX 4WD (720 Kg, 179 hp) I pitted in (the fuel tank meter has been consumed by about 1/8) and refilled 13 liters of fuel (they likely have been almost 14 liters, though).

Laps were done in average in about 1:04 minutes. Total time after pitting in was 17:03.533

A few calculations:

4.023 Km * 15 = 60.345 Km (37.50 mi)
60.345 Km / 13 liters = 4.64 Km/l (10.91 mpg)
Average speed = 212.1 Km/h (131.79 mph)

I did some tests, and the 0-100 Km/h time (measured with a stopwatch, since the game doesn't allow detailed measurements) was the same in the practice mode/time trial, and the practice mode/single race with fuel consumption enabled. It doesn't seem like the fuel weight is taken into account here. But I swear that it is in the online mode with fuel consumption enabled.

EDIT
In the online mode it looks like the fuel has indeed some effects on the car dynamics.
After multiple runs, the 0-100 Km/h time (shifting at redline, TC off, 270 Km/h top speed gear set up) in the practice mode was about 6.6 seconds, regardless if the fuel consumption was enabled or not. In the online mode, it was 6.9 seconds in average.

EDITED 120 100 liters of gasoline would be approximately 90 75 Kg of added payload.
The 0-100 Km/h time difference (not to mention the drastic differences in handling) appears to be coherent with that.

So, in summary:
- The cars I have tested in GT5 have a 120 100 liters fuel tank.
- In the practice mode, whether fuel consumption is enabled or not, fuel weight is not taken into account for the car handling. So it's not possible to tune the suspension set-up for the added payload while practicing off-line.
- In the online mode with the fuel/tire depletion activated, fuel weight has a substantial effect on handling and acceleration (depending on the car; lighter and less powerful cars are in disadvantage here).

 

[shirakawaa]

Nobody interested in these findings?

 

[MonStar]

How does it not make his post any more valid? He has real life experience. So if you came into my office and said I want this job but I'm just a douche that has access to the internet. The other guy walks in and says I have years of experience in this field who do you think I am going to hire?

Some of the people on here are quite ignorant.

Anyone can to do a track day with a ferrari, audi etc I have many times and in that video he isnt doing anything special, so if its supposed to 'shush' me like my point is inferior because of his video, its failed.

 

[MonStar]

Nobody interested in these findings?

Interesting findings, as I dont really care, ill let you guys discuss it.

Props for taking the time to investigate though, you just added a whole lot to this thread.

Unlike that other dude just babbling on.

 

[shirakawaa]

After some more testing with faster cars, I can now confirm that cars' fuel tank capacity in GT5 is 100 liters, not 120 as I previously wrote.

By the way, my 610hp Ford F-150 SVT Lightning gets 1.46 Km/l at Indianapolis Superspeedway at full speed (3.43 mpg).

 

[Raceworx]

how are people using fuel im doing extreme races and fuel and tyre wear is still not on?? is there an option iv missed??

 

[shirakawaa]

If you do single races in the Arcade Mode or the Practice Mode (GT Life) you can enable fuel and tire depletion.
However, fuel weight is taken into account, as far as I can see, only in online races with fuel/tire depletion enabled. Probably it is in longer races in the GT Life mode too, but I haven't reached them yet.

 

[Raceworx]

well im level 22 close to level 23.. so far no fuel or tyre depletionseems such a waste to have afeature and not use it in 90% of the game!

 

[chimuel]

I don't know if anyone's mentioned it but the Veyron has a W16 not a V16

 

[Novice]

well im level 22 close to level 23.. so far no fuel or tyre depletionseems such a waste to have afeature and not use it in 90% of the game!

there's no fuel consumption below expert, regardless of level.


anyway, just to add, the Lexus IS-F has a 90L tank. it's shown in the in-car's gauge, and reflects what the HUD fuel gauge shows.

 

[shirakawaa]

anyway, just to add, the Lexus IS-F has a 90L tank. it's shown in the in-car's gauge, and reflects what the HUD fuel gauge shows.

So maybe standard cars have been given a "default" 100 liters fuel tank?
I have to admit that all cars of which I tried measuring fuel consumption were Standards.