Fuel consumption

[RC45]

Anyone can to do a track day with a ferrari, audi etc I have many times and in that video he isnt doing anything special, so if its supposed to 'shush' me like my point is inferior because of his video, its failed.

Nope - not doing anything special. Just thrashing an Rt12 around a race track. You <................> the point.

Having REAL on track and on road experience in certain cars actually goes a long way to validating opinions of handling, feel and behaviour of an in game car especially with regard to how they feel and bheave with a full tank vs an empty one - compared to someone who has not experienced that type of car on track.

But you can continue raving all you want, I will just refence my own experience of an AWD Ruf Rt12 vs C5 Z06 vs Caterham Superlight vs Ruf CTR vs Lotus Exige vs C230 Benz behaviour as fuel load changes. The initial weight and then weight delta have differing effects on different cars. If this behaviour is not modelled in GT5 then shame on them, if it is then it is yet another handling tuning variable to tak einto account when setting cars up.

So how again is practical experience not valid?

 

[onearmbandit]

I've played the GT series ever since it first came out. I enjoyed them all. Were they perfect? Who cares, it's what was available at the time and I enjoyed it. I never went on any forums to read about the games, I just played them and enjoyed them. I spent hours making modifications and changes to my cars just to see what it did to corner speeds, accel, braking etc.

Then I, along with everyone else, waited for GT5 to appear. Out of curiosity I joined this forum to whet my appetite. My god I thought, by reading some of the 'statements' on here I started to believe that this game had really gone off track, excuse the pun. But I wasn't going to let that stop me from finding out for myself.

So game home, installed, and oh-my-freaking-god this game rocks. Loved it, and still love it. Once again, it's not perfect but it's the best driving game available for the PS3. Hours and hours of fun, some features missed, some new features welcomed.

Then I come back on here, and all I read about is 'whah whah whah the game is missing this' or 'whah whah whah I wanted this in the game' etc etc etc.

And sure people are entitled to express their opinion, as I'm doing right now. But I suggest most of you turn your PC's off and turn your PS3's on and just enjoy the bloody game for what it is.

 

[shirakawaa]

So maybe standard cars have been given a "default" 100 liters fuel tank?
I have to admit that all cars of which I tried measuring fuel consumption were Standards.

I made a quick test at Daytona with a premium Suzuki Cervo which is supposed to have in real life a 30 liters fuel tank, but after consuming 6 liters of fuel, the fuel meter got depleted only by a tiny bit (looked like 1/16), and not 20%. So Premium cars appear to have a universal 100 liters fuel tank too.

 

[LordVonPS3]

I made a quick test at Daytona with a premium Suzuki Cervo which is supposed to have in real life a 30 liters fuel tank, but after consuming 6 liters of fuel, the fuel meter got depleted only by a tiny bit (looked like 1/16), and not 20%. So Premium cars appear to have a universal 100 liters fuel tank too.

Can you confirm whether cars can accelerate faster as fuel load decreases?

IMO, if it is too cumbersome for PD to find out and apply the real fuel tank size of each car, the fuel tanks for all cars should be limited to 50 litres rather than 100.

 

[Ark2point5]

LOL @ 16.4 liters.

 

[shirakawaa]

Can you confirm whether cars can accelerate faster as fuel load decreases?

IMO, if it is too cumbersome for PD to find out and apply the real fuel tank size of each car, the fuel tanks for all cars should be limited to 50 litres rather than 100.

To me, that happens only in the online mode with fuel/tire depletion activated (see post #86 for details). Cars accelerate slower and their rear end feels heavy compared to the practice mode (whether fuel consumption is activated or not in single races).
This is very noticeable with light and underpowered cars.

 

[risuku13]

I hope there's an option for selecting "GT5 fuel tank" or real life fuel tank specs. This can help show real MPG or KM/L.

But I'm okay with the current setting. Saves time.

 

[CoolColJ]

To me, that happens only in the online mode with fuel/tire depletion activated (see post #86 for details). Cars accelerate slower and their rear end feels heavy compared to the practice mode (whether fuel consumption is activated or not in single races).
This is very noticeable with light and underpowered cars.

Maybe more to do with cold tyres?

That's what I notice most on online races, the cars can feel night and day different when the tyres are cold.
The first lap is always scary

 

[xchristox]

Maybe more to do with cold tyres?

That's what I notice most on online races, the cars can feel night and day different when the tyres are cold.
The first lap is always scary

yeah and I love it!

 

[Pierced Lead]

But you can continue raving all you want, I will just refence my own experience of an AWD Ruf Rt12 vs C5 Z06 vs Caterham Superlight vs Ruf CTR vs Lotus Exige vs C230 Benz behaviour as fuel load changes. The initial weight and then weight delta have differing effects on different cars. If this behaviour is not modelled in GT5 then shame on them, if it is then it is yet another handling tuning variable to tak einto account when setting cars up.

So how again is practical experience not valid?

There are lots of factors games like GT5 and others on consoles don't take into account because they CAN'T take it into account.

You're expecting the sun from GT5. If you're so intent on having all variables calculated then PC sims are for you. Hardware is the severe handicap for console games.

Jeez, next thing to complain about is the headlights don't get foggy after a while the lights are on, or the mudflaps are animated, or my driver is not wearing seat belts...

 

[shirakawaa]

Maybe more to do with cold tyres?

No, that happens even after 10 laps of steady driving.
My favourite cars I usually drive in online races do not handle like when I set them up in the practice mode.

That's what I notice most on online races, the cars can feel night and day different when the tyres are cold.
The first lap is always scary

Yes, I did notice too that in online races tires start even colder than usual.
However, there is also difference in handling and acceleration times. This is probably not very noticeable with a typical sports car. Try with a much lighter car when you can.

There are lots of factors games like GT5 and others on consoles don't take into account because they CAN'T take it into account.

They could have however inserted realistic fuel tank sizes (especially for light cars), enabled fuel and tire consumption and made fuel have weight on all races rather than only in online ones.

 

[Pesmerga7551]

Yea, in races, cars should have legit gas tank sizes. Perhaps a mod for race cars, or something like that. But no way should all cars hold that much. As for the tires, I don't care about that as much.

 

[Novice]

They could have however inserted realistic fuel tank sizes (especially for light cars), enabled fuel and tire consumption and made fuel have weight on all races rather than only in online ones.

but i think that would limit the viability of some cars to win on certain events. i mean, it would be pita to have a gas guzzler spend all 50L (for example) on the long races.

devs should draw the line between reality and playability of the game AS a game. tbh, some people are asking too much of the little things sometimes. it's just ridiculous. if you want something real, go take your car and join "track days" with your local car club.

 

[shirakawaa]

but i think that would limit the viability of some cars to win on certain events. i mean, it would be pita to have a gas guzzler spend all 50L (for example) on the long races.

devs should draw the line between reality and playability of the game AS a game. tbh, some people are asking too much of the little things sometimes. it's just ridiculous. if you want something real, go take your car and join "track days" with your local car club.

Then, as previously suggested (I suggested this too a few pages back), they could have inserted a "racing fuel tank" modification and/or better yet, an option to select before the race how much fuel to insert in it (since we're already able to select exactly how much fuel to refill during pit stops in races with fuel consumption enabled, something that wasn't possible in GT4).

"It's just a game!" - This quote that lately I see popping out quite often seems more and more a silly excuse to justify lazy programmers/game designers' wrong choices, to me. That's also something I wouldn't have expected to read this often on a message board of what claims to be a driving simulator.

 

[Pierced Lead]

They could have however inserted realistic fuel tank sizes (especially for light cars), enabled fuel and tire consumption and made fuel have weight on all races rather than only in online ones.

True, I think it was laziness on PD's part, or maybe they actually didn't have time to record the fuel capacity of all 1000 cars, not to mention their fuel economy and which fuel (diesel, petrol, electric - because they all have different weights too)

 

[shirakawaa]

By the way, I just made a test with a Citroen 2CV on Fuji Speedway:

0-80 Km/h = 35.8s (Arcade mode/Single Race - fuel depletion on)
0-80 Km/h = 39.7s (Online race - fuel depletion on)

Same conditions, start point, gear shifting strategy.

 

[Griffith500]

Thanks SHIRAKAWA Akira for your efforts here. They are most revealing. I think I might have been a bit too quick to judge when voicing, in another thread, my disappointment about the sluggishness of the Caterham Fireblade. I think I may have tested it online initially, but I'm unsure. I'm going to have to go back and re-think this.

As a side-note, it's interesting reading the debate over whether the Veyron is a W16, a V16 or whatever. What about the 512BB? Is that really a Boxer? (hint: no.) What about the Golf R32, does that really have a V6? (this one's a little more ambiguous, but the decision impacts what the Veyron's engine should be called.)
If it matters, my stance is the Golf doesn't have a V6, it has a VR6 (why they dropped that moniker is beyond me); equally the V5 is a VR5, and that would make the "W16" a VRV16. Ah, that's why...

The concept is quite old, and is actually called a staggered arrangement. A well-known example is the Lancia Fulvia's 13° "V4". Here's a nice drawing of an aborted BMC narrow angle staggered four. Then of course, there's the Wikipedia entry for [WIKIPEDIA]VR6[/WIKIPEDIA].

 

[jonny_goddard]

That's not how it works. Remember drag force squares with velocity and drag power is the cube of velocity. It's an exponential so if the car uses its fuel in 18 minutes @ 253mph it doesn't mean it'll use it in anywhere close to that at lower speeds.

what this guy said......................

 

[SigmaViper11]

Bull****. No way does a race engine get 40mpg (diesel or not). No way. No how.

You may want to take that up with the FIA, becasue they certainly believe so. Honestly with tech right now, I don't see why it wouldn't be possible.

 

[mrteedot]

That doesn't matter. Rpm = rpm. The gearbox just puts it to the ground.

These comments are hilarious. Why try to make scientific arguments when you clearly have no idea what you're talking about? Without using any big words, engineering/thermodynamic principles let's think about it logically...

Spin your arms around at 100rpm. Not bad, a little effort but not too bad.
Now hold 50 lb weights in your hands, spin your arms at 100 rpm. By your logic, it should take the same amount of work... I sincerely hope that common sense would tell you this is not true.

 

[The_Reformed]

Well my Mazda mx5 has double the size exactly, I think all the cars have the same size fuel tank, which is not very realistic, and not very perfectionist sadly to say

 

[CoolColJ]

Doing an Enduro in B-Spec now, using my Chromeline Audi R8 V10

First pitstop after 17 laps at Grand Valley, with fuel meter just under 50% and the pitstop request window said I could refuel 56 litres.....

Tyre wear was at 50%, now if the fuel tank size was realistic, I would have refueled a long time ago.

 

[Rybo]

Doing an Enduro in B-Spec now, using my Chromeline Audi R8 V10

First pitstop after 17 laps at Grand Valley, with fuel meter just under 50% and the pitstop request window said I could refuel 56 litres.....

Tyre wear was at 50%, now if the fuel tank size was realistic, I would have refueled a long time ago.

Noticed the same thing as well. I hope they do a patch to tell you how many laps of fuel you have vs how many liters.

 

[shirakawaa]

The problem is not that, it's that all cars in GT have a 100 liters "racing" fuel tank.
That should be optional (maybe as an upgrade/racing part), not be made available as default.
In addition to the inaccuracy of always having such large fuel tanks for all cars, small/light cars in races with fuel consumption enabled especially are in disadvantage, since the fuel weight is a large percentage of the total car weight. We're not even able to select fuel quantity before the race...

 

[VetteDawg]

Rybo, I love your Senna / Mansell avatar.

I'll tell you what, pit stops take an incredibly looong time. It's like the fuel is running through a straw.

 

[RogsR34UK]

I can see that a "one size fits all" fuel tank is going to save their calculations. Fine, give every car a 100 litre tank, just give us the option to put a realistic amount of fuel in the car before using it. If you want you K car to be a tail happy monster, by all means put 100 litres in it.

I would be intrigued to see a direct diesel to petrol comparison. Unfortunately the only contender here would be the 1 Series BMW. On overall performance the 120i and 120d should be pretty similar, but for a given distance, the diesel ought to use less fuel. Maybe I ought to have a fuel consumption activated blast around the Rome circuit, the one I know best (on the Extreme Euro Rome race I have done rather a lot of repeats for credits).

In the Indy 500 my upgraded Minolta Toyota was using around 15 gallons of fuel (i guestimated that 68 litres would have been sufficient for the distance) for 25 flat out laps which equates to around 4mpg which seems fairly reasonable for a full race machine.

 

[Brun]

You may want to take that up with the FIA, becasue they certainly believe so. Honestly with tech right now, I don't see why it wouldn't be possible.

I think there's some confusion between mpg and litres/100km. Being funny continentals, the FIA are likely to use the latter.

40L/100km is about 6mpg, which sounds like a much more reasonable rate of fuel consumption for a race car.

 

[RogsR34UK]

Not convinced by the fuel consumption model in the game.

I ran a Practice infinite length one make race on the 2.16 milw Rome Circuit with Comfort: Softs, TCS=4 and ABS=2, other assists being off. My strategy was to pit at the end of lap 25.

120d was my first drive, Best lap was in the mid 1;33's. Total time for 25 laps was 39:36. The game wanted to put in 24 litres of fuel. That gives average consumption of about 10.2 mpg.

120i next. Best lap was in the high 1:34's. Total time for 25 laps was 40:03. The game wanted to put in 23 litres of fuel. That gives an average of about 10.6 mpg.

I would have thought that under identical conditions the diesel ought to have used less fuel, not more. Looks like the fuel consumption is based on HP and weight, regardless of engine type as the diesel is heavier and more powerful.

 

[CoolColJ]

^Kaz says, depends on revs too.

Maybe someone should try short shifting and compare to full rev band shifting

I'm running the 4 Hour Tsukuba B-Spec race in a 181hp Eunos Roadster, and for sure this car consumes far less petrol (and tyres) than the 600+hp Audi R8 V10 I was using before in a prior endurance race

 

[xXDoc187Xx]

Anybody know if the car really stops when you run out of fuel? Or is it like GT4?
At one place in the game it says that the car will stop. True or not?

Idk if anyone answered this cause im still reading from page 1, when ur tank hits E (red) your speed is capped @ 55mph till you pit