Fuel

[gt4_girl_au]

In motor racing, cars run faster on lighter tanks and slower on heavy tanks.
i was wondering if the cars in GT4 does faster lap times on a lighter tank ?

from my experience, it's doesn't....
wondering what all of you think.
thanks
-sarah

 

[dori-san]

it's been covered. search for the thread... I think it was decided as no.

although some people said that their laps were slightly quicker.

 

[Crayola]

Whats the point of fuel then? What happens if you run out?

 

[Famine]

You drop to 50mph maximum until you refuel.

 

[daan]

You drop to 50mph maximum until you refuel.

So you never need to refuel the 2CV?

 

[Crayola]

You drop to 50mph maximum until you refuel.

Ya know I was thinking something almost exactly to that extent, only i was thinking in Kilometers. (80 in fact, which is practically 50mph anyway...)

 

[weirdkerr]

i guess in a car which has a top speed of less than 50mph (80 Km/h) fuel is irrelevant added to the fact that you are not likely to be using such a car in an endurance race anyway........

 

[VT]

Would that mean that if you ran out of fuel in a car which won't do anywhere dear 50mph that you would do 50mph when you run out?

 

[Famine]

You drop to 50mph maximum until you refuel.

What do you think?

 

[TheChemist]

However, waiting for fuel to be loaded to the top takes more time than filling to the minimum need for a run.

 

[gumpy]

Tyre wear is slightly reduced on less fuel. My BSpec driver in a certain endurance race (can't remember which it was) does 1 more lap before pitting if I choose not to refuel so I would suggest they have tried to factor in the effect of less fuel.

 

[ving]

it effects the weight ballance of the said vehicle too

 

[63AvantiR3]

Heh. If fuel is a weight factor, I have some thoughts-

1) Why can't we choose to fill the tank only as full as we need? For example, if a race is only 3 laps of Laguna Seca, 1/2 to 3/4 a tank from the start would be sufficient.

2) Why can't we cross-weight the cars in Gran Turismo? X-weighting is the art of making weights of opposite corners equal each other: LF+RR = RF+LR. More information is here -> http://www.ground-control.com/?D=e04c39f1691068891bffa901ba6b5aaa
I've heard when you cross weight, you put the driver in the car and (for endurance races) fill the tank halfway. This is done so that for half of the race you are "over the curve", for a few laps you are "on the curve" and for the remaining portion of the race you are "under the curve." For sprint races, you fill the tank as full as you need to make it from start to finish.
It would be a major p.i.t.a. though if Polyphony & Sony made it so you had to "make weight" after the race in order to get your points. Having said that, it would be realistic and I would welcome it.
Making weight is more prevalent in a spec series: Spec Miata, Vette-Viper Challenge, American Iron, GTI Cup, Pro-7, and Honda Challenge at the amateur level. Speed World Challenge, ALMS, Trans-Am, NASCAR, and others at the pro level.

3) Also related: In theory, we should be able to use the weight of fuel to setup our cars in that "Weight Balance" setting.

Gran Turismo is a great racing game. It's not "The Real Driving Simulator." It has come a long way, but it has a long way to go.

 

[gt3freak_2001]

Heh. If fuel is a weight factor, I have some thoughts-

1) Why can't we choose to fill the tank only as full as we need? For example, if a race is only 3 laps of Laguna Seca, 1/2 to 3/4 a tank from the start would be sufficient.

2) Why can't we cross-weight the cars in Gran Turismo? X-weighting is the art of making weights of opposite corners equal each other: LF+RR = RF+LR. More information is here -> http://www.ground-control.com/?D=e04c39f1691068891bffa901ba6b5aaa
I've heard when you cross weight, you put the driver in the car and (for endurance races) fill the tank halfway. This is done so that for half of the race you are "over the curve", for a few laps you are "on the curve" and for the remaining portion of the race you are "under the curve." For sprint races, you fill the tank as full as you need to make it from start to finish.
It would be a major p.i.t.a. though if Polyphony & Sony made it so you had to "make weight" after the race in order to get your points. Having said that, it would be realistic and I would welcome it.
Making weight is more prevalent in a spec series: Spec Miata, Vette-Viper Challenge, American Iron, GTI Cup, Pro-7, and Honda Challenge at the amateur level. Speed World Challenge, ALMS, Trans-Am, NASCAR, and others at the pro level.

3) Also related: In theory, we should be able to use the weight of fuel to setup our cars in that "Weight Balance" setting.

Gran Turismo is a great racing game. It's not "The Real Driving Simulator." It has come a long way, but it has a long way to go.

Actually you can tell the pit crew how much fuel you want, you just hit x when you see the yellow fuel bar reach your desired fuel level.

 

[drfterxl]

i think he means choosing fuel levels before a race

 

[63AvantiR3]

i think he means choosing fuel levels before a race

Yep.👍 I love using the X button to let the crew know when to stop fueling, but I would like to start off a race so that after I cross the start/finish line, after the last lap, I am running on vapor.

 

[mrchicken&fries]

Can weight make a big diffrence in real life lap times?

 

[drfterxl]

yes
in F1's, the cars will run faster lap times as their fuel weight decreases
teams running a minimal pit stop stratey will have more fuel to start with, making their car visibly slower tthan the others who are running light fuel loads, but more stops

 

[denki]

i think it was in 2004 the new F1 rules stated that how an F1 car qualifies is how it will start the race, so if you qualify with low fuel (which they used to do), then you have to start the race with the same amount of fuel you started qualifying with (or, maybe it was once your car is done qualifying, you can`t refuel at all). this was because at light weight, you can shave a good 2-3 seconds off (if not more), which is all the more crucial for qualifying. the new rules make it more fair for everybody, and is i think better

 

[VT]

What do you think?

Thanks for pointing that word out. I somehow skipped over it when I read it the first time.

 

[63AvantiR3]

Yes it can. Here are some quotes that more accurately describe the weight of gasoline. I cheated and asked jeeves

"When I worked in an automotive engine test lab - dynamometer tests - we often had to calculate the brake specific fuel consumption (BSFC) of the test engines. We had a chart for fuel density vs temperature for our fuels that was updated monthly. As I recall, the typical weight of gasoline at 72 degrees F was around 6.25# per gallon.
As it became cooler it became more dense and thus weighed more and above this
temperature it was less dense and a gallon weighed less." -Russ

"The weight of gasoline is critical in doing weight and balance calculations for aircraft. For aviation fuel, which is similar to automobile fuel, the weight is 6 pounds per gallon. Jet A fuel, which is closer to kerosene, is 6.84 pounds. These weights are based on averages that will vary with temperature and additives due to weather." -Midpac
To give credit where credit is due: http://www.faqs.org/qa/qa-2617.html

Or from: http://www.santacruzpl.org/readyref/files/g-l/gasoline.shtml
1 gallon of water equals 8.33 lbs.
1 gallon of gasoline equals 5.8 to 6.5 lbs.
1 gallon of ethanol equals 6.59 lbs.

Considering cars carry anywhere from 10-30 gallons, and each gallon of gas weighs about 6 pounds (~2.72kg) weight from gasoline can make a huge difference in lap times. Lap times can get quicker and quicker as the weight of gasoline starts to disappear.

GT4 uses a scale of "80" in terms of fuel. If I presume correctly and they are using liters, that's 21.13 gallons. Perfect, that fits within my 10-30 figure above. How much weight is 21.13 gallons? Well using the figures from above, that each gallon of gas weighs about 6 1/4 pounds, that's roughly 132 pounds of added weight in the car when it's full. If 100 pounds is about a tenth of a second in the quarter mile (402m), then you take into the fact that road racers are throwing weight side-to-side-front-to-back and are traveling more than a quarter mile; it can make a huge difference.

 

[Famine]

When looking for information on the internet, be careful what turns up...

For instance here you don't know WHICH gallon they're talking about. The US gallon (3.785 litres) or the larger Imperial one (4.546 litres)...

 

[Hun200kmh]

On topic:

From what I played so far, I got the feeling that fuel (weight) does matter, but I can't be sure because I get a lighter tank usually when I'm also with much-used tyres. I've never tested new tyres without refueling to - at least - 50% of the tank.

Off topic: (but there's no need to open another thread, so I'll ask it here)

Does anyone know nowadays rules for refueling and changing tyres in endurance races? I found a bit strange how in GT4 refueling and tyre changing happen simultaneously. In my only (and beloved) other "endurance race" game, the old "Le Mans", the pits were also very well recreated (IMO better than GT4) and, after you stop, they immediatly start to refuel, with the (4) tyre guys just waiting. It's only after the refueling is finished that they start to change the tyres.

Have the rules changed? Is any of these games wrong?

 

[911_gt3_rs]

My fastest lap in the Fuuji endurance were done with yellow tires and just under 50% of fuel left in. i don't think that fuel is particularly significant though.

I'd like to know if fuel consumption is relative the cars actual MPG rating and the size of it's tank?

 

[Famine]

The cars' fuel efficiencies may well be akin to the real world (Bentley Speed 8 managed 6mpg during the 24 Heures du Mans), but the size of the tank is "80" in all case, regardless of real life stats.

 

[skicrush]

Doctor, will I be able to play the piano when I get my cast taken off?

Could you play the piano before you broke your arm?

 

[JayP]

On topic: Have the rules changed? Is any of these games wrong?

The American LeMans Series does not allow tire changes (or any work) until the fuel hose is out of the car. I would suspect the 24hr event is the same.

I'd prefer longer pits, make for better pit strategy... unlike NASCAR where the fuel is loaded while the tires are replaced. By the time the tires are changed, all the fuel is in the car.

 

[daan]

While the car is being refuelled at Le Mans, the only other thing that can be happening is the driver change. Once the refuelling is finished then they can change tyres, work on the car etc.

 

[63AvantiR3]

When looking for information on the internet, be careful what turns up...

For instance here you don't know WHICH gallon they're talking about. The US gallon (3.785 litres) or the larger Imperial one (4.546 litres)...

I'm pretty sure that my second link is talking about the U.S. gallon. Here's a snippet from its website, "The Santa Cruz Public Libraries is a city-county library system with libraries throughout the County of Santa Cruz, California. System Headquarters: 1543 Pacific Avenue. Santa Cruz, California 95060. 831 420-5600"

I also use the program called "convert" to do my conversions, http://www.joshmadison.com/software/ I used "liter" & "gallon" but not "gallon (UK)" for my conversions.