Future of Car Industry

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I used to have a lot of opinions on how cars should be, etc., before I started driving. 5 years later, the criteria are completely different.

Driving a little Accent is very humbling.
 
I used to have a lot of opinions on how cars should be, etc., before I started driving. 5 years later, the criteria are completely different.

Driving a little Accent is very humbling.

Good point. It's funny how your priorities change when you actually get out on the road yourself, rather than just spouting off on a forum.

I tend to find people fairly closed-minded about future car design. Some people just don't like change, regardless of the benefits it can bring. Yes, not everything will be better in the future compared to how it's been in the past, but I can't understand the concept of writing off all future cars because of some stuck-in-the-mud ideals they have.
 
I don't mind all these new fancy hybrid/electric cars. As long as they are in addition to cars like the Mustang, Camaro, etc that should remain true to their roots. I don't mind if Ford sells a 100+mpg hybrid, as long as I can still buy a 500hp V8 Mustang with a manual trans. :)
 
Did anyone ever see the 1970s model chevelle that had over 800HP and it had better gas mileage than 2 Toyota's hybrids. It had a 800HP liquid propane injected engine. They brought in Chip Fose to do the custom look to it. Good point to the car was why sacrifice power and looks for better fuel economy. I saw it on the speed channel.
 
Good point. It's funny how your priorities change when you actually get out on the road yourself, rather than just spouting off on a forum.

I tend to find people fairly closed-minded about future car design. Some people just don't like change, regardless of the benefits it can bring. Yes, not everything will be better in the future compared to how it's been in the past, but I can't understand the concept of writing off all future cars because of some stuck-in-the-mud ideals they have.

Yup, people usually have millions of criteria and subscribe themselves to a certain car culture that they are never a part of before they actually own a car. And then run around the internet debating base on ring lap times and 0-60 figures like they actually mattered in the real world.

Before you actually bought a car, ran it, serviced it, have close call in it, and have it been part of your life, you never understand there are much much more to every single car beyond figures and cold hard facts.
 
Did anyone ever see the 1970s model chevelle that had over 800HP and it had better gas mileage than 2 Toyota's hybrids. It had a 800HP liquid propane injected engine. They brought in Chip Fose to do the custom look to it. Good point to the car was why sacrifice power and looks for better fuel economy. I saw it on the speed channel.

Propane is explosive as it turn into gas form at normal atmospheric temperature, there's safety concern.
 
I quite disagree that there aren't any interesting new cars coming out. Considering as my third job is driving new cars.

The new MINIs? Fun. The new MINI Countryman? Lots of old-school fun. It's still smaller than most other cars on the market, with an acceptable rear seat, and it shimmies when you hit the gas pedal and is pleased as punch to lift-off and handbrake oversteer, because it's got a bigger ass than the MINI Cooper. Hell... they even built the handbrake for easier sideways antics.

Ford and GM both have 300 plus horsepower V6s. That was V8 territory just a few years ago. The Genesis now has a 348 hp V6, which promises to be fantastic. While I miss the old I6 from the E46 M3, the V8 M3 is probably the most mental M3 to ever come out of BMW... Okay, the steering isn't all that it could be, but the motor has ten times the charisma of the old I6s.

Downsized turbocharged engines? Hell, yes. Make the engine small enough and turbocharged enough, and it's like driving a ridiculously torquey (bigger) naturally aspirated engine. I've sampled a number of these new mills, and engines like the Ford 1.6T, the BMW "35" (turbocharged 3 liter) and the Mini 1.6T are great fun.

Even diesels are a lot better than they used to be. BMW's "35d" is a scorcher, Jag's 3 liter diesel is also pretty good. Hyundai's suite of new four-cylinder turbodiesels are incredible value for the price... a 190 hp four-pot diesel with more torque than a V6? Yes, please.

It's all different nowadays. Cars are getting more complicated. Economy is requiring more sacrifices. But there are simple and cheap cars that simply "get it right." Witness the Fit. The Mazda2. The Focus. The Cruze... actually surprisingly better than expected, and arguably the best compact car to come out of GM... well... ever.

Then you have new cars like the 86, the upcoming MX-5, the rear-wheel drive 1.4 turbo Code 130R concept from GM. Times may look rough if you like them big, heavy and carbureted, but if you keep an open mind, then there's a lot of fun and fascination to be found out there, nowadays.

I even like the direction of the design. Cars are changing... why shouldn't design? There are stinkers out there, but by and large, the current crop is shaking up people's ideas of what cars should look like, and is making them see what cars can be.


Did anyone ever see the 1970s model chevelle that had over 800HP and it had better gas mileage than 2 Toyota's hybrids. It had a 800HP liquid propane injected engine. They brought in Chip Fose to do the custom look to it. Good point to the car was why sacrifice power and looks for better fuel economy. I saw it on the speed channel.

If by better gasoline mileage, you mean it uses absolutely no gasoline, yes, that's true.

But owning a propane-powered car, I can tell you... 800 hp is going to burn a hell of a lot of propane. Saying it uses less gasoline than a Prius is like saying a freight train uses less gasoline than a Prius. Both statements are technically true, but suggest an inherent efficiency that really isn't there. :lol:
 
I don't mind all these new fancy hybrid/electric cars. As long as they are in addition to cars like the Mustang, Camaro, etc that should remain true to their roots. I don't mind if Ford sells a 100+mpg hybrid, as long as I can still buy a 500hp V8 Mustang with a manual trans. :)

Exactly. I can fully understand that - and since nobody is canning their big muscle cars or supercars - indeed, every year they get more powerful and quicker than ever - I cannot understand the massive fear over the more high-tech stuff, hybrids, EVs, the more unusual stuff.
 
I don't mind all these new fancy hybrid/electric cars. As long as they are in addition to cars like the Mustang, Camaro, etc that should remain true to their roots. I don't mind if Ford sells a 100+mpg hybrid, as long as I can still buy a 500hp V8 Mustang with a manual trans. :)

So you can do the speed limit on the same roads you drive the economy car? See, that's why big fast cars don't impress me so much anymore. I've turned into James May, except sober.

If I'm on a closed course, sure, give me your best machine and let me get my Clarkson on. But at the end of the day I think we'll be seeing cars that are engineered specifically to be maximum-efficiency road appliances, and then the niche segment for richer weekend warriors.

And pick-up trucks, of course.
 
JJ72
Propane is explosive as it turn into gas form at normal atmospheric temperature, there's safety concern.

Well i didn't really post every detail but the car uses a special type of fuel cell that stops what you are saying but seriously look it up. It is a great concept and it works and could be used. And also if i remembered correctly one of the main problems with it becoming a everyday thing in normal life... (and let me say this before i go on, i am not talking about HP, but it is a great factor) .... is that the problems at the time the motor conversion was made, was to get gas stations supplied with pumps to supply it. This is still a major problem with electric cars today. It would be very costly to put special fueling stations in every gas station in the world. That is one if the major problems of buying a electric car today. But i would rather convert my car to run something then having to buy something different. I guess if they stopped selling gas powered cars i would have to suck it up and do it like everyone else.
 
I used to have a lot of opinions on how cars should be, etc., before I started driving. 5 years later, the criteria are completely different.

How I knew I was getting old...

I had a look at this:

2012_toyota_camry_actf34_lt_1201112_815-thumb-717x477-111990.jpg


Then I thought, "Hey, that isn't so bad..."


Working safety equipment, a halfway decent ride (albeit a little on the firm side), and good fuel economy goes a long way. Weird.
 
I still don't like them. The steering is crud. But I am more than perfectly happy to drive an Elantra... :D

Well i didn't really post every detail but the car uses a special type of fuel cell that stops what you are saying but seriously look it up. It is a great concept and it works and could be used. And also if i remembered correctly one of the main problems with it becoming a everyday thing in normal life... (and let me say this before i go on, i am not talking about HP, but it is a great factor) .... is that the problems at the time the motor conversion was made, was to get gas stations supplied with pumps to supply it. This is still a major problem with electric cars today. It would be very costly to put special fueling stations in every gas station in the world. That is one if the major problems of buying a electric car today. But i would rather convert my car to run something then having to buy something different. I guess if they stopped selling gas powered cars i would have to suck it up and do it like everyone else.

Propane would be dreadfully easy for stations to tool up for. A propane fuel pump doesn't cost significantly more than a regular fuel pump. Porpane doesn't even need high pressure storage, since the tanks are only two or three times atmospheric. Alternatives such as Compressed natural gas or hydrogen require a few thousand psi of storage, note. As such, propane is not a significantly greater explosion risk than gasoline.

Many Natural Gas proponents cite stronger tanks as a reason to pick NG over Propane, but that's bullcrud. Automotive propane tanks are much stronger than gasoline tanks, and bulletproof, to boot. You can mandate even stronger propane tanks to resist all kinds of collisions, and they'll still be cheaper to make than natural gas tanks.

And thanks to the low pressure and safety release valve, a propane tank flares rather than explodes (much like a gasoline tank). A natural gas tank, on the other hand...

CNG_car_rear_2.jpg


Both propane and electricity are reasonably easy and cheap for gas stations to tool up for. It's a chicken and egg, thing, though. Locally, we had a huge bloom of propane stations during the 2008 economic crisis and gasoline crunch. That's because it's so easy to retool vehicles to run it. Though, as with ethanol, there are issues with engine durability when the vehicle is not tuned or rebuilt to run it.
 
How I knew I was getting old...

I had a look at this:

2012_toyota_camry_actf34_lt_1201112_815-thumb-717x477-111990.jpg


Then I thought, "Hey, that isn't so bad..."


Working safety equipment, a halfway decent ride (albeit a little on the firm side), and good fuel economy goes a long way. Weird.

You're not the only one. One of my roommates is borrowing his parents Camry and he drove when we had to go somewhere. It was so quiet and comfortable that it was actually a really nice change from my bit-rough and raucous E30. I actually thought to myself, "Damn, I definitely much prefer commuting daily in stop-and-go traffic in something like this." Commuting, if I had the choice, I just may take something like that Camry more often than not.
 
The Camry is a really good car.

One reason Hydrogen Fuel Cells won't work is the high costs. A magazine estimated the FCX Clarity Fuel Cell car at near $300,000 USD. I don't think that would work. Hydrogen isn't in large quantities as well, which rules out mass production Hydrogen Internal Combustion Engines. Propane seems like a good idea though. Unfortunately, there aren't many choices for alternative fuels that will satisfy the green people, daily commuters, and pleasure drivers.
 
So you can do the speed limit on the same roads you drive the economy car? See, that's why big fast cars don't impress me so much anymore. I've turned into James May, except sober.

Track days FTW. Would you want to track a Prius?

Didn't think so. :sly:
 
Track days FTW. Would you want to track a Prius?

Didn't think so. :sly:

Why yes I would :p

1572053384967915541.jpg


:lol:

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To me the future of the automotive industry is starting to look brighter. Fat is being trimmed down and non-profitable companies or brands are going away. The technology is getting better and better while getting cheaper so that it can replace ancient stuff. Designs are have a little slower time getting going but I think the number of good looking cars out for the 2012/13 model year is higher then in the past 10 years at lease.

For once I think the American automakers are doing the right thing too, they are actually building cars that people want and aren't perceived as shoddy junk.
 
Track days FTW. Would you want to track a Prius?

Didn't think so. :sly:

You're missing the point. I'd bet not even 1% of drivers track their cars. So it makes sense that the industry would be moving towards economy and efficiency for the road.

If it were to go to the track, I'd have a dedicated car for that. It just doesn't make sense to sell a road car that sacrifices economy for features that are only useable on a track.
 
If it were to go to the track, I'd have a dedicated car for that. It just doesn't make sense to sell a road car that sacrifices economy for features that are only useable on a track.

This.

Perfect day-to-day car: Comfortable, economical, easy-to-drive. Speed nice, not essential.
Perfect weekend/track car: Lightweight, noisy, simple, fun. Funnily enough, speed also not essential here, as fun is the main ingredient. Has to be something I want to drive.

I see it as a great waste of potential to use something designed to go quickly and have fun in day-to-day, as generally the average commute is neither fun, nor fast.
 
I see it as a great waste of potential to use something designed to go quickly and have fun in day-to-day, as generally the average commute is neither fun, nor fast.
Tru dat.

Fact: The future of the car industry is going to be lame as hell. Enthusiasts will be left to maintain ages-old cars, like my RX7, if they want to get any thrills. The sad thing is that motorsports enthusiasts are such a small minority that big companies won't even notice the small loss in sales of modern sports cars.
 
There will always be sporty cars for enthusiast, maybe not by the big name manufactures but there is enough of a niche market where they will continue on.
 
They will continue on in modern terms. Another fact is that, following current trends, government regulation on the automotive industry will get nothing but tighter, and will undoubtedly include the smallest of niche markets and manufacturers. That will mean that even companies making cars that don't qualify as "production" cars will be regulated and will have to conform to the same lame modern standards as everybody else. It's a wonder that cars like the Veyron aren't illegal yet.

So, like I suggested, traditional enthusiasts will be virtually forgotten and left to rummage through the used car market.
 
Sporty cars are still going to be around but whether enthusiast like them or not is going to be another story. This leaves them with two options die out or adapt. If they can't conform to the new cars then honestly it sucks to be them. The used car market will dwindle every year and before to long those cars will be rare and no longer obtainable, so they can either wallow in their self pity or figure out how to make the new cars do what they want them to do. Wait for the next generation of car guys to emerge, they will know how to tinker with hybrids, as well as electric and hydrogen power cars.
 
Well, do the patents on vehicle designs/plans ever expire? I can imagine a start-up company building brand new E30s in China with LS3s and marketing them to the enthusiast crowd.
 
Cars like the Bugatti veyron will not be made illegal to drive anytime soon. For one, they cost too much not to drive (a car is useless if its on a museum pedestal) and two, they are ultra rare, so it's pointless to make legislation for such a tiny population of cars.
 
The Toyota 86 is at least some proof that car manufacturers still understand the need for a simple, fun car, so I don't think the future will be too depressing.

Hoping for more of the same - only cheaper still - with the next MX5.
 
Well, if GM builds this...

Chevrolet-Code-130R-Concept-front-three-quarter-21-623x389.jpg


I'd say the hopes for a small, rear-drive sports car are still alive. I'm still hoping for Ford to contribute eventually...
 
I'd say the hopes for a small, rear-drive sports car are still alive. I'm still hoping for Ford to contribute eventually...

Chances are they wouldn't if it had any chance of stealing sales away from the Mustang.
 
Not like the Mustang is all that bad.

C'mon people... we now have the most powerful V6 Mustang ever, at an affordable price. We have a 300+ horsepower V6 Camaro, too... as well as affordable sports coupes in the Genesis 2.0T and 3.8, with the 2.0T now putting out over 270 horses... a good successor to the Nissan Silvia if there ever was one... and the Nissan Z is now better than ever, too.

We have the MX5, the upcoming MX5, the Toyota 86, the Chevrolet Code 130R (which YSSMAN posted... if they build it, I will be insanely happy)... despite the dire predictions about the future of the EVO and Impreza, they are still around, still kicking.

Wake up and smell the gasoline... the car isn't dead. If you're pining for yesteryear, you're out of luck. With today's regulations and fuel prices, that's not going to happen. But if you're willing to accept the fact that we have a lot of pretty swell, pretty fast, pretty exciting cars available right now, then you ought to be happy.
 
Unless the political landscape changes, corporate average fuel economy is going to get extrememly ridiculous in about a decade or so, and I'm beginning to think the sports car is doomed.

I'm also beginning to make some of my non-famously (in)accurate predictions.

I predict that more and more car enthusiasts will begin to lead double lives as motorcycle enthusiasts: a fast bike costs less than some compact cars, is incredibly fun (from what I've heard), and is faster than a bad check. And the gas mileage is good enough to satisfy any treehugger.

I predict that propane cars (which were tried by Ford in the 1980s and sold well with government fleets - but almost no one else) will be making a comeback. Here in Alaska, at least, many gas stations have propane tanks, and I suspect the same is true elsewhere due to the unending popularity of backyard cooking.

Gas-electric hybrids will probably hang on for a while. Of all the "politically correct" solutions, this one holds the most promise. Cars like the Porsche 918 Spyder, Jaguar C-X16, and Honda CR-Z are proving that the exhaust can still be loud and the revs can still rise and fall even when there's an electric motor helping you along, and while I may not like them, they're certainly better than PHEVs and full electrics.

Speaking of such, I still maintain they're a horrible solution. One forward speed, zero exhaust noise, and... not much range. Oh, and just try to make one work outside a major metropolitan area. Especially here. Considering that a cold snap reduced the range of Consumer Reports' Nissan Leaf to 66 miles, the temperatures we've been getting here would make 50 miles an incredible stroke of luck. And considering that the nearest major population center (Anchorage) is 60 miles from where I'm sitting now and has no chargers, that's totally not gonna fly. And speaking of recharging...

PHEVs solve the range and recharge-time issues, but with the gas engine acting as naught but a generator, they become even more gutless and sound like the Attack of the Killer Vuvuzelas when the battery runs out. NOPE.AVI!

Hydrogen fuel cells do similar, but without the power drop - because there's no batteries to run out. A (non-annoying) exhaust note is still sorely lacking, however.

I believe there is still life left in the standalone internal combustion engine, however. Smokey Yunick's adiabatic engine design circa 1985 A.D. could wring better fuel economy - and power - from the humble carburetor than all the trickery, electronics, and computer controls in the world can get from fuel injection even today. And with today's metallurgy and materials being far above that of the 1980s, the idea seems to be even more relevant now than it was then.

Plus, if someone thought hard enough about it, the design could probably be made to work with, and possibly benefit from, fuel injection and computers.

Opposed-piston ideas also seem to show promise.

Of course, as with propane above, our current internal combustion engines could be made to run on just about any combustible liquid. Hydrogen is one example but not the only one. This could save on redevelopment costs, and many of the fuels that could be used are already in use for other things.

And, of course, diesels. I don't see too many problems with them that aren't solvable, they get great mileage, and the extra torque means they can use taller, wider gear ratios while still maintaining performance, further boosting mileage. It also means you don't have to shift them as much.

So, maybe sports cars - and cheap fun - aren't doomed after all. Everyone seems to be sold lock, stock, and barrell on those abominable electric cars, but there are better options everywhere.

Speaking of which, oil is a fossil fuel, which means it was created by the decay of organic matter...

So wouldn't it be possible to make oil in a laboratory without any drilling at all, by somehow accelerating the decay process of dead plants & animals?

In any case, if I were to buy a new reasonably-priced car, it would be a Mazda3, a Suzuki Kizashi, or a Honda Fit. Affordable doesn't have to mean boring... until Congress inevitably makes it so.
 
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