Future of Car Industry

[1241Penguin]

W&N: What about turning synthetic oil into gasoline or diesel?

It's undoubtedly far-fetched, but who knows what science will do in the future.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Next Gen Viper Hopefully to come out soon. It will have No Dodge badge At all but instead an SRT badge only.

If they go to Le Mans, I'll be happy, I doubt it though since Ferrari is already there. You know the whole Alfa thing, but I could be wrong.

Why yes I would

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To me the future of the automotive industry is starting to look brighter. Fat is being trimmed down and non-profitable companies or brands are going away. The technology is getting better and better while getting cheaper so that it can replace ancient stuff. Designs are have a little slower time getting going but I think the number of good looking cars out for the 2012/13 model year is higher then in the past 10 years at lease.

For once I think the American automakers are doing the right thing too, they are actually building cars that people want and aren't perceived as shoddy junk.

Joey thank you, I don't feel so afraid now!!! Seriously though you have a good point.

Maybe ten years down the road we'll be driving Blue Falcons!!! (F Zero ref)

 

[homeforsummer]

W&N: What about turning synthetic oil into gasoline or diesel?

It's undoubtedly far-fetched, but who knows what science will do in the future.

If production of biofuels - especially from biomass and waste matter - becomes more efficient, then that's probably a better solution than synthetically-created fuel. It's using something we wouldn't otherwise need - waste products.

Although burning biofuels still produces greenhouse gas like regular fuel it's still more "carbon neutral" (I dislike the term, but just to illustrate) because it's spent only a matter of years being grown - and can be replaced - rather than millions of years being formed under the ground. It's easy to offset the carbon impact of biofuels because you can simply grow more plants...

Again, I don't see the increasing push for efficiency becoming in any way something that will ruin the car industry.

Think of one of the as-yet barely explored technologies - reducing weight. Some makers are starting to get it, and reducing the weight of cars has benefits everywhere. Performance, economy, handling, reduced materials usage (also good for the environment - if you're using less steel, that's less raw materials being processed). Cars are getting stronger all the time, so you're not sacrificing safety by going lighter either.

Especially with companies like BMW and Mercedes. Both the i3 electric car and i8 plug-in hybrid will have aluminium/carbon shells, and Mercedes is hinting that the top-spec version of it's next E-Class will be all-carbon, and 770 pounds lighter than the equivalent made from steel. That's a massive difference.

Likewise, improving engine efficiency isn't exactly a bad thing, as a more efficient engine has as many benefits in power and driveability as it does in fuel economy. That's why, today, we have cars that are more powerful than ever, yet more efficient than ever too.

Yeah, I'm not buying the whole "future will be glum" stuff. Anyone who thinks that is completely underestimating the ability of carmakers to be one step ahead of whatever legislation can be thrown at them.

 

[Lock2Lock]

Propane would be dreadfully easy for stations to tool up for. A propane fuel pump doesn't cost significantly more than a regular fuel pump. Porpane doesn't even need high pressure storage, since the tanks are only two or three times atmospheric. Alternatives such as Compressed natural gas or hydrogen require a few thousand psi of storage, note. As such, propane is not a significantly greater explosion risk than gasoline.

Many Natural Gas proponents cite stronger tanks as a reason to pick NG over Propane, but that's bullcrud. Automotive propane tanks are much stronger than gasoline tanks, and bulletproof, to boot. You can mandate even stronger propane tanks to resist all kinds of collisions, and they'll still be cheaper to make than natural gas tanks.

And thanks to the low pressure and safety release valve, a propane tank flares rather than explodes (much like a gasoline tank). A natural gas tank, on the other hand...

Both propane and electricity are reasonably easy and cheap for gas stations to tool up for. It's a chicken and egg, thing, though. Locally, we had a huge bloom of propane stations during the 2008 economic crisis and gasoline crunch. That's because it's so easy to retool vehicles to run it. Though, as with ethanol, there are issues with engine durability when the vehicle is not tuned or rebuilt to run it.

Yeah i totally agree. I was talking to someone who said that propane is highly explosive and is practical. And that was my point as well as, why buy a hybrid that looks horrible, has no HP. You can have something like liquid propane injected engine, that will get almost double in miles per gallon, and would have four times the HP, if you want it that is. I just hope the car industries really think about things before just saying, put a 90HP engine in it and make a really weird design that most people going to buy a new car wouldn't considering buying. If the car industries decide to do i hope that they will consider every option.

 

[homeforsummer]

I just hope the car industries really think about things before just saying, put a 90HP engine in it and make a really weird design that most people going to buy a new car wouldn't considering buying.

Yeah, car manufacturers totally prefer stuff that doesn't sell... This is where I'd normally write that more than a million hybrid Prius alone have been sold in the past decade, not counting other hybrids, but I don't see what good it would do...

You're hugely overstating the benefits of propane/LPG. Manufacturers like Vauxhall have been offering LPG conversions for a decade or more because it's a pretty cheap fuel and therefore attractive to taxi drivers and the like.

However, power is no better, economy is worse than on gasoline (to the tune of 5-10mpg in current cars), and in my own experience of driving an LPG car, they hate hot restarts. So it's kinda impractical on occasion.

And yes, the cost of setting up pumps per pump isn't bad, but you'd have to do it at every gas station across the country. Which starts to add up.

Essentially, the reason because it hasn't been explored further is because it offers no tangible advantages over gasoline, save for cost. And since propane is way more useful for home use and there's already a gasoline network, it's a bit pointless.

The whole idea of making cars more efficient is to reduce dependency on fossil fuels. Going from one fossil fuel to another is a bit pointless, for that reason.

 

[Omnis]

Congrats on 12k posts, HFS.

And the only reason to use natural gas solutions is because north america has it coming out of every hole. It's so cheap because we have so much.

 

[Keef]

I'm getting a bit impatient with Mazda here. At least give us a teaser or something...

I'm very interested to see what they offer us.

Well, do the patents on vehicle designs/plans ever expire? I can imagine a start-up company building brand new E30s in China with LS3s and marketing them to the enthusiast crowd.

This is an idea I've thought about a lot. I personally feel my RX7 is a very well designed car. Even if a car was built identically I would love it, but this car updated with modern techniques and details (window seals and panel gaps for example) I think it would be magical. Give it a Renesis and they'd have themselves a buyer!

Well, if GM builds this...

I'd say the hopes for a small, rear-drive sports car are still alive. I'm still hoping for Ford to contribute eventually...

Chances are they wouldn't if it had any chance of stealing sales away from the Mustang.

It's an interesting idea. I would still rather have the Japanese car because I don't like the American take on small sports cars.

 

[Jondot]

Yeah, I'm not buying the whole "future will be glum" stuff. Anyone who thinks that is completely underestimating the ability of carmakers to be one step ahead of whatever legislation can be thrown at them.

I don't even buy the whole 'an electric future will be glum' business. Within reason, I reckon there's nothing to stop you having fun with whatever you're driving. V8s might be on the way out, but so will the people who put up a fuss at the idea of driving a 4 cylinder - and in their place, the generation that won't have grown up with their dad's fire-spitting, 5MPG Corvette and in all likelihood will not give a hoot what's powering their car provided it's reasonably fun to drive.

As a case in point, take me. Particularly powerful engines have never been prolific here, and since I started learning to drive at a time when petrol cost £1.20/litre ($7/gallon if my maths are correct) I was even less likely to encounter any. I did most of my practise in a 90bhp, diesel hatchback - and I had fantastic fun. It wasn't a car with an exciting engine note, but I was far too busy playing around with all that fun low-down torque to be bothered with what it sounded like. Now, if I'd learned in let's say something with a V6 petrol, I might not have been such a fan of hopping into something less refined, less powerful and with a less smooth power delivery. But I didn't, so I wasn't. And where I might have entered with preconceptions of - to paraphrase ORPHANSHOUTYUSERNAME7 - 'ugh, a 90bhp thing with a really weird design' and been set up to hate it from the start, I wasn't; and as a result wasn't blind to the bits that were actually quite fun. I reckon if you started off in something electric-powered, much the same thing would occur. In fact it wouldn't surprise me if you never wanted to drive anything that ran on petrol - it'd be noisier, gruffer and you'd have to hunt around with this silly gearstick to find any sort of power band. Or worse, plant your foot and listen to a CVT moan at you where normally there'd just be sudden power and almost complete silence.

Point is, just because you're used to something doesn't make its sucessor necessarily less enjoyable. Quite a bit is about keeping an open mind. Even I'll admit that the omission of interesting-sounding power plants (and even good ole' fashioned gearboxes) will be a shame, but at the end of the day these things aren't the be all and end all. Particularly when half the cars on the market don't do either particularly well.

 

[Keef]

No offense to Formula One fans in here, but the more I hear them talk about what they enjoy in a car, the more I'm convinced that fans of that sport are not true driving enthusiasts. When a person states that their favorite car is either the latest Ferrari or some other ridiculous 600 horsepower supercar, I automatically assume I would not enjoy attacking a twisty mountain road with them.

 

[Villain]

I used to have a lot of opinions on how cars should be, etc., before I started driving. 5 years later, the criteria are completely different.

Driving a little Accent is very humbling.

I was just thinking about this the other day. My girlfriend's aunt and uncle were visiting from Georgria and they love cars. I think he's the president of some nation-wide Mustang car club and he drives some old Mach 1 with something like 400bhp. Anyways, we were making small talk on the ride home from Disneyland and her aunt asks me "so, what's your dream car?"

I was so shocked at myself. It took me forever to answer this. I had to think long and hard because my interest in autos has switched from boyhood dream super corvettes and porsches to what my next ideal car will be (likely a Subaru Outback). I had to sit there and really think (what are nice super cars out there today?)

I think it threw me because she asked "what's your dream car?" as opposed to "what's your ideal car?" Maybe I've just stopping dreaming about cars...

 

[Grand Prix]

Most internal combustion sports cars will probably end up like this, at some point:

Abandoned and forgotten. There will always be a select few museum pieces, and some will even be wealthy enough to drive them around, but the majority will be left to rust and die. The internal combustion sports car will go the way of the horse and steam engine locomotive. A few crazed billionaire enthusiasts driving around in their ancient V12 Ferraris and Aston Martins with antiquated late 20th century clothing. To them their engines produce fabulous music, to everyone else; unappreciated racket and noise. They'll look completely ridiculous I'm sure.


Give it some time, the new car enthusiasts will find ways to tune and customize their electric cars. Perhaps you could say they'll be more like electricians and programmers than just mechanics. Even so, humans usually apply passion and love to most material objects. Especially ones they spend a lot of time with. Sure, you'll always have the Corolla-driving drones that only want something that gets them from A to B, but enthusiasts will still exist in one way or another.


Besides, at least we'll still have driving sims to recreate driving ICE cars in all their glory. If driving sims don't banned at some point, that is.

 

[Keef]

Well, if GM builds this...

I'd say the hopes for a small, rear-drive sports car are still alive. I'm still hoping for Ford to contribute eventually...

 

[Muffinland]

GM's going down the poop-hole with this "car". saw this thing with my own eyes. poor chevy...

 

[JJ72]

it's space efficient personal transport for people who is not interested in driving, which means we have more open roads and stupid drivers can't hurt a trash can, all the better imo.

 

[Joel]

I've only been driving for about 16 months (8 of those months being "drive with a parent in the front seat"), but I already find myself having similar opinons to Villain, Omnis, etc. Driving around in a Corolla really changes your opinions on cars, before I started driving I wanted a Mustang or something to be my first car. But now? Boy am I glad my parents bought a Corolla 9 years ago. Cheap, reliable, fuel efficient, doesn't look horrible, and has room for 5 people (4 comfortably) and their stuff. Far more important to me than having a V8 sports car. If anything, I'd rather have my mom's Golf TDI wagon than the Corolla, it'd have everything I love about the Corolla (fuel efficiency, seating for 5, decent looks), and everything I wish the Corolla had (fun from the torque down low in a diesel, more comfortable and more sporty ride, more room for hockey bags, better sound system, bluetooth, heated seats, sunroof, DSG).

I must be the most boring 17 year old in the world, I want a Golf TDI Wagon. If I were to go back in time and tell my 15 year old self I'd be wishing I had a Diesel powered station wagon...

 

[niky]

No offense to Formula One fans in here, but the more I hear them talk about what they enjoy in a car, the more I'm convinced that fans of that sport are not true driving enthusiasts. When a person states that their favorite car is either the latest Ferrari or some other ridiculous 600 horsepower supercar, I automatically assume I would not enjoy attacking a twisty mountain road with them.

What? You don't enjoy going down a road aftraid to use more than 1/10th of the throttle pedal or 1/2 of the road?

Yeah... I'd rather have an Aveo on bald tires myself.

 

[GTMail]

Most internal combustion sports cars will probably end up like this, at some point:

Abandoned and forgotten. There will always be a select few museum pieces, and some will even be wealthy enough to drive them around, but the majority will be left to rust and die. The internal combustion sports car will go the way of the horse and steam engine locomotive. A few crazed billionaire enthusiasts driving around in their ancient V12 Ferraris and Aston Martins with antiquated late 20th century clothing. To them their engines produce fabulous music, to everyone else; unappreciated racket and noise. They'll look completely ridiculous I'm sure.

Give it some time, the new car enthusiasts will find ways to tune and customize their electric cars. Perhaps you could say they'll be more like electricians and programmers than just mechanics. Even so, humans usually apply passion and love to most material objects. Especially ones they spend a lot of time with. Sure, you'll always have the Corolla-driving drones that only want something that gets them from A to B, but enthusiasts will still exist in one way or another.

Besides, at least we'll still have driving sims to recreate driving ICE cars in all their glory. If driving sims don't banned at some point, that is.

That picture is rather beautiful to be honest. But I totally agree with you. You can even see it now. In places like Dubai, people just leave their super rare cars just lying and collecting dust.

 

[homeforsummer]

What? You don't enjoy going down a road aftraid to use more than 1/10th of the throttle pedal or 1/2 of the road?

Yeah... I'd rather have an Aveo on bald tires myself.

As I've often said - more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow...

That picture is rather beautiful to be honest. But I totally agree with you. You can even see it now. In places like Dubai, people just leave their super rare cars just lying and collecting dust.

You make it sound like it's the done thing. It isn't, the only time that sort of thing happens is when someone suddenly loses a massive amount of money for whatever reason and flee the country, leaving their massive house and supercars behind.

 

[JJ72]

But you can't argue that a GT3RS is magnificent on a twisty road. Even though a hot hatch might actually be faster. A good car personally is more about the driving interface and feedback more than anything.

 

[homeforsummer]

But you can't argue that a GT3RS is magnificent on a twisty road. Even though a hot hatch might actually be faster. A good car personally is more about the driving interface and feedback more than anything.

Oh I don't deny that, it's just that you have to be quite lucky to ever find the right conditions to really exploit a car like that. It's brilliant having all that performance but quite depressing only getting to use it 5% of the time.

I know someone who reviewed a Mitsubishi Evo X FQ-300 recently. He concluded that it was an amazing car, but frustrating to drive because it permanently wants to be driven flat-out and the conditions to actually do so barely ever come up. He concluded he'd rather have something with much lower potential because you could at least use it more often.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Most internal combustion sports cars will probably end up like this, at some point:

Abandoned and forgotten. There will always be a select few museum pieces, and some will even be wealthy enough to drive them around, but the majority will be left to rust and die. The internal combustion sports car will go the way of the horse and steam engine locomotive. A few crazed billionaire enthusiasts driving around in their ancient V12 Ferraris and Aston Martins with antiquated late 20th century clothing. To them their engines produce fabulous music, to everyone else; unappreciated racket and noise. They'll look completely ridiculous I'm sure.


Give it some time, the new car enthusiasts will find ways to tune and customize their electric cars. Perhaps you could say they'll be more like electricians and programmers than just mechanics. Even so, humans usually apply passion and love to most material objects. Especially ones they spend a lot of time with. Sure, you'll always have the Corolla-driving drones that only want something that gets them from A to B, but enthusiasts will still exist in one way or another.


Besides, at least we'll still have driving sims to recreate driving ICE cars in all their glory. If driving sims don't banned at some point, that is.

This is too true, but I think those who have knowledge in both fields of the old and new will be sought after for years to come.

 

[Slash]

Don't hate on me for this (which I'm sure everyone still will), but I think all of the cars of today really are getting half-assed designs..I can't imagine what it would be in 30 years..

Yes I agree totally. I hate the new styles.

 

[YSSMAN]

Well, if GM builds this...

I'd say the hopes for a small, rear-drive sports car are still alive. I'm still hoping for Ford to contribute eventually...

 

[Joey D]

I really wish GM would have built the SS, that thing was pretty awesome looking.

 

[Keef]

They could take the idea and build it for Cadillac to compete with other high-end coupe-ish sedans. The basic shape is fantastic. I'm sure that rakish design with its classic American bulbous fenders could be adapted to Caddy's design language just fine.

I'm also sure people inside GM have already thought of that.

 

[Nish]

Giant Chevy RX-8?

 

[YSSMAN]

I'm also sure people inside GM have already thought of that.

They had a similar shape ready to roll for the Chevrolet Chevelle concept that never made it to a turntable (I'm trying to find the links to that model, but can't seem to locate it). Cadillac could do it, we've still got two shows to go. Chicago is typically a GMC/Buick event, New York normally gets more attention for Cadillac.

The powers that be still want a car to slot in above the XTS. Cadillac deserves one, in my opinion. They just need to make a business case for it.


Having seen the SS Concept when it debuted in Detroit all those years ago, it really was a failed promise that should have happened. They should have killed the Impala for it. They should have done it before the Camaro. They could have turned it down a few shades, but they wouldn't have needed to change much. Very disappointing, indeed.

 

[Keef]

The powers that be still want a car to slot in above the XTS. Cadillac deserves one, in my opinion. They just need to make a business case for it.

They need to sell a few XTSs before they do anything. I predict only marginal success for that car. It seems like an RL competitor to me. What is it supposed to compete with again? Definitely not the 5-series or E-class, and definitely not anything bigger.

 

[Omnis]

They built them for Newt Gingrich voters.

 

[Tornado]

They need to sell a few XTSs before they do anything. I predict only marginal success for that car. It seems like an RL competitor to me. What is it supposed to compete with again? Definitely not the 5-series or E-class, and definitely not anything bigger.

What do you mean? It's the flagship car of the range that will alienate both Deville buyers and STS buyers while simultaneously being DoA to anything made by anyone else except the Lexus ES and Acura RL. It's sure to be a hit.


And since, in classic GM fashion, the success of it will directly dictate the go ahead for better, far-more-thought-out-but-otherwise-completely-unrelated models, the future of Cadillac is very bright indeed.