FWD 240SX's?

[ND4SPD]

Hey everyone I've been hearing that here in Canada that most 240SX's that were sent here, came with a FWD drivetrain because of the snow we have up here, and that 25% of them were RWD. Is this true? Thanks in advance.

 

[Jugend]

Wouldn't think so. To my knowledge no RWD car has never ever been converted for FWD for any market by a manufacturer.

 

[skip0110]

Perhaps you are thinking of the Sentra-based 200SX? That was FWD.

GTJugend -- what about the RWD V6 hatch by a French make (is it a Clio?) that is based on a FWD 4-banger architecture?

 

[Jugend]

GTJugend -- what about the RWD V6 hatch by a French make (is it a Clio?) that is based on a FWD 4-banger architecture?

But that's the opposite direction of the conversion.

 

[rollazn]

GTJugend -- what about the RWD V6 hatch by a French make (is it a Clio?) that is based on a FWD 4-banger architecture?

Yes, I think you are talking about the Renault Clio. And what GTJugend said was.. "no RWD car has never ever been converted for FWD for any market by a manufacturer."

You said that the RWD Clio is based off some FWD 4 banger which is the opposite of what GTJugend said.

Although I am pretty sure that there has been cars that have been converted to some other drivetrain because of the market, but I have no real proof.

I though the Nissan 200SX was RWD also? I guess it's just me. The 200SX was suppose to be the S13 right? The 240SX is the S13 Hatch, and S14. The S15 never made it to the US. Not really sure on that though.

 

[skip0110]

Whoops, my bad GT Jugend.

I though the Nissan 200SX was RWD also? I guess it's just me. The 200SX was suppose to be the S13 right? The 240SX is the S13 Hatch, and S14. The S15 never made it to the US. Not really sure on that though.

This is the 200SX I am thinking of.
http://auto.consumerguide.com/auto/used/reviews/full/index.cfm/id/2217
I thought the S13/S14 were the 240SX.

 

[rollazn]

Well, I am confused now.

This is what I know so far:

We in the US got the S13 and S14. I am not sure what year they began to import these car but in 1988 the first S13 was made in three bodystyle - the coupe (Silvia), hatch (180SX) and convertible version.

We got the coupe verison of the S13 which we called 200SX.
The 180SX in Japan is the Hatchback verison of the S13 which we called 240SX.
The S14 also is known as the 240SX.

Australia got the S14 and is called a 200SX, which is confusing. Sadly however, we failed to see alot of the standard japanese features such as the super HICAS, the Garrett T28BB (we only got the standard T28) and of course the Japanese spec SR20DET.

 

[skip0110]

.....
We got the coupe verison of the S13 which we called 200SX.
.....
Australia got the S14 and is called a 200SX, which is confusing.

As far as I know, we never saw the S14 in the states. I dont know for which years the RWD 200SX ran, but from 1995 up (I believe) it was a FWD coupe, essentially Sentra coupe.

Up until 1995, then, all SX badged cars--180SX, 200SX, 240SX--were RWD. Right? This is confusing.

 

[ND4SPD]

Yes very...

 

[rollazn]

We did get the S14, but it lacks a lot of standard features that makes it what it is.

HICAS
the Garrett T28BB (we only got the standard T28)
SR20DET

Three main features that we didn't get.

Here are what I think we got...

S13 Coupe/S13 Silvia - I think we call it a 200SX but im not sure.. Here is some pictures.

S13 Hatch/ S13 180SX- We got this and it's called a 240SX.

Last Siliva we ever gotten was the S14. It lacks the SR20DET and instead have a sucky engine. K20 or whatever, I forgot. That is why you will find that most Silvia/240SX/200SX owners do engine swaps and get the SR20DET.

S14

Excluding the kit that is on that car.

 

[Ev0]

The engine in North American 240SXs is the KA24DE, which produces around 150-160hp stock. A huge drawback from the SR20DET which I believe produces 200hp stock (and can go to 240-250hp without much work involved).

Anyone got an idea as to why Nissan gave North America the KA24 as opposed to the SR20?

*edit* I've heard rumblings about Nissan making a FWD Silvia in the future. Anyone else heard about this disgrace?

 

[kirkis9]

the earlier editions of the 240sx were absolutely 100% RWD (1989) but over the next 7 years it slowy phased into FWD applications. ND4SPD was correct in his assumption about the safety factor

Anyone got an idea as to why Nissan gave North America the KA24 as opposed to the SR20?

simple. exhaust emission standards, SR20's are not known to be enviormentaly friendly. the KA24 is a great engine. but one of the major drawbacks is the weight involved. coming across a descent priced sr20 on the web is rare, they dont go for much less than 2k. its best left to the bloody wealthy enthusiasts

 

[Takumi Fujiwara]

Never got the S14 in the US?

Then how'd I get mine? =D

Before 1989, there was a car called the Nissan 200SX. It was the S12 Silvia. After 1989, with the implementaion of the KA24DE in the US market, the S-chassis cars became the 240SX, up through '98. The 200SX we got in the '90s was FWD. It was essentially a 2 door Sentra.

There was no US Silvia-style car. We got a car that had a silvia body with a 180SX front end, and a 180SX bodied car. Both used the KA24, and both were called 240SX

Non-Japan markets that got the SR-engined S-chassis cars after '89 called it the 200SX. That includes the UK, parts of europe, and Australia.

There was NEVER an FWD S-chassis car. NEVER. All 240SXs made, from 1989-1998 were RWD. Again, there was NEVER an FWD 240SX. There was NEVER an FWD S13 or S14.

The US did not get the KA24 because of emissions reasons. The SR passes US emissions standards. The FWD version of the SR20 was sold in several US cars, including the 200SX and Sentra SE-R. There were two main factors. First of all, the SR20DET (turbo) can not be reliably run on gas below 91 octane without ECU changes and power losses. It will run, but not well enough for sale to the public. Second, and more important, it was too powerful. Nissan's flagship car at the time was the 300ZX. The Z31, which was out at the same time as the S13, and the Z32, the S14's contemporary, only had a 50HP or so edge over the SR20s. Coupled with the substantially lower weight of the S-chassis cars, Nissan feared that selling the car with the SR20 would cut into sales of the 300ZX.

 

[CrackHoor]

There was NEVER an FWD S-chassis car. NEVER.

That is correct. Not in Canada, not in Europe, not anywhere.

The 200SX in the link posted above is the Sentra-based FWD ?B?-series chassis. The Euro & Australian 200SX is RWD S-chassis. A bit confusing, but that's Nissan for ya...

 

[Ev0]

The US did not get the KA24 because of emissions reasons. The SR passes US emissions standards. The FWD version of the SR20 was sold in several US cars, including the 200SX and Sentra SE-R. There were two main factors. First of all, the SR20DET (turbo) can not be reliably run on gas below 91 octane without ECU changes and power losses. It will run, but not well enough for sale to the public. Second, and more important, it was too powerful. Nissan's flagship car at the time was the 300ZX. The Z31, which was out at the same time as the S13, and the Z32, the S14's contemporary, only had a 50HP or so edge over the SR20s. Coupled with the substantially lower weight of the S-chassis cars, Nissan feared that selling the car with the SR20 would cut into sales of the 300ZX.

If the SR20 engined 240s would cut into sales of the 300ZX for performance reasons, then why didn't Nissan just put the SR20 into the 300ZX?

 

[skip0110]

If the SR20 engined 240s would cut into sales of the 300ZX for performance reasons, then why didn't Nissan just put the SR20 into the 300ZX?

Historically, Z-cars have always always had 6 cylinders--be it V6 or I6.

 

[Takumi Fujiwara]

If the SR20 engined 240s would cut into sales of the 300ZX for performance reasons, then why didn't Nissan just put the SR20 into the 300ZX?

Because the VG30DET / VG30DETT still had substantially more power than the SR20. The weight difference helps to equalize the performance, and the S-chassis cars are already superior when it comes to handling. The issue is that the 240SX was a $20,000 car, and the Z was a $40,000 car, and the flagship of Nissan's line. So they couldn't allow the 240 to have an overall performance too close to the Z's.

 

[Ev0]

Because the VG30DET / VG30DETT still had substantially more power than the SR20. The weight difference helps to equalize the performance, and the S-chassis cars are already superior when it comes to handling. The issue is that the 240SX was a $20,000 car, and the Z was a $40,000 car, and the flagship of Nissan's line. So they couldn't allow the 240 to have an overall performance too close to the Z's.

Ah, I see now. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[rollazn]

Believe me the SR20DET is a great engine, and most of us, if not all will agree. They fit greatly in the 200SX/240SX. Getting rid of the KA engine and replacing it with the SR20 is one of the best performance choices you can do for a Siliva. Furthermore, for that reason SR20DET are a dime a dozen for modified 240SX’s. There are 240SX using the RB engine series, but that is pretty rare. The RB engine is heavier and more expensive. Most would go with the RB20DET because it is the cheapest Skyline GTR engine available.

Why go for the RB when the SR does just a good as a job. The RB20DET is not as smart of a choice as the SR20DET I think. The SR20DET is good all around. Drag to drift to auto crossing, overall it’s just a great engine. RB I think are only good for drag racing, and show off.

There has been cases of a 350Z replacing it's V6 (because it broke) for a SR20DET. You may wonder why go from a V6 to I-4 but it ran great and the power was there. I still think the V6 was better because it had more power and torque.

Overall, Nissan's engines rock. Haha.

 

[Ev0]

Believe me the SR20DET is a great engine, and most of us, if not all will agree. They fit greatly in the 200SX/240SX. Getting rid of the KA engine and replacing it with the SR20 is one of the best performance choices you can do for a Siliva. Furthermore, for that reason SR20DET are a dime a dozen for modified 240SX’s. There are 240SX using the RB engine series, but that is pretty rare. The RB engine is heavier and more expensive. Most would go with the RB20DET because it is the cheapest Skyline GTR engine available.

Why go for the RB when the SR does just a good as a job. The RB20DET is not as smart of a choice as the SR20DET I think. The SR20DET is good all around. Drag to drift to auto crossing, overall it’s just a great engine. RB I think are only good for drag racing, and show off.

There has been cases of a 350Z replacing it's V6 (because it broke) for a SR20DET. You may wonder why go from a V6 to I-4 but it ran great and the power was there. I still think the V6 was better because it had more power and torque.

Overall, Nissan's engines rock. Haha.

Wouldn't the SR20 be lighter than the 350Z's V6? (Its a VQ26DE, right?). Put some engine and drivetrain mods into the SR20 to make it produce around 250hp, and I think an SR20 powered 350Z would be as fast if not faster than a stock 350Z. The weight reduction should compensate for the 30hp deficit. I'd suspect handling would improve as long as the weight balance is not thrown too far out of proportion.

 

[inferno]

actualy the SR20DET would be considerably lighter than that the 350Z's engine considering the VQ is a 3.5 liter. VQ35DE? lol. probably not but ok. Anyway, the 350Z is actualy a compact. it looks mid size in photos and you'd think that with the V6 but in person and on the specks sheet its a compact. the only thing i can think is that the guy wanted to shed some pounds sinse the 350 is quite hefty. And depending on what he did to it the SR20DET could definately match the stock VQ for horsepower. all in all I'd say it was a good move.

ps: has any one noticed i hate the VQ? It's in the Quest minivan for cryin out loud!

 

[rollazn]

The SR20DET when compared to the VQ35DE is underpowered. It’s a lot weaker and has a lot of less torque. Overall the amount of weight saved from the Inline 4 is nothing compared to the sheer power and torque of the V6.

The only reason the 350Z changed to SR20DET was because it was better for drifting. Which is what the driver/company wanted to do at the time, the V6 blew up and they just replaced it with a SR20DET which I think wasn’t that bad of a move considering they want a drifting 350Z.

There is no way a stock SR20 powered 350Z can take on a stock VQ35DE 350Z. It’s that simple.

A 350Z is a compact? Care to explain? Last time I heard it was a 30 grand Sport Car.

ps: has any one noticed i hate the VQ? It's in the Quest minivan for cryin out loud!

You hate the VQ for what reason? The reason it’s used in the Quest is because it’s a very good engine.

 

[Takumi Fujiwara]

There has been cases of a 350Z replacing it's V6 (because it broke) for a SR20DET. You may wonder why go from a V6 to I-4 but it ran great and the power was there. I still think the V6 was better because it had more power and torque.

Overall, Nissan's engines rock. Haha.

Chris Forsberg has an SR in the Z he ran in Formula D. Damn, that thing is sweet. Chris is an acquantance of mine, so I've seen it up close. It's pretty cool being hardcore into the touge scene, we had a night recently where the scene at the main local road consisted of myself, my friend (who has an S13 hatch), Daijiro Yoshihara, Andy Yen, Chris Forsberg, and Tony Angelo. It was pretty awesome.

 

[rollazn]

Swapping the VQ for the SR is not very wise in my opinion. Why do it when the VQ is very capable of being tuned and its one hell of an engine?

Why did your friend replace the V6? Spending money to take away horsepower and to replace a 6 cylinder with a 4 cylinder is not a very common thing to do. Unless he blew his motor, then the SR would be cheaper to replace. That was the only reason one of the drifting team replace the VQ. Not because he thought it would be faster but because it would be cheaper.

It’s simple thinking, that the SR is slower than the VQ. Because the Silvia S15 with the SR20DET producing 250HP can’t take a 350Z even though it weighs much less. Now how can a SR20DET in a heavier body than the S15 take out a stock 350Z with the amazing VQ?

There has been a 350Z with a RB26DETT and with the Attesa 4 wheel drive system. It's pretty cool.

 

[inferno]

A 350Z is a compact? Care to explain? Last time I heard it was a 30 grand Sport Car.

The 350Z has an overall length of about 4300 mm which puts it in the size class of a compact. yes the 350Z is about the same length as a civic, but the width and height are different. its still a compact. just like the 300ZX was. comparably powerfull cars like the NSX and supra are mid size cars. (about 4600 mm in length)

You hate the VQ for what reason? The reason it’s used in the Quest is because it’s a very good engine.

The VQ is a fleet engine. Its an sohc, high volume, low feature engine. a passenger car engine. everything from the 240 hp version in the quest and altima, the 260 hp version in the maxima and G35 sedan, and the 290 hp version in the 350Z and G35 coupe. thats one of the reasons why the 350Z is so heavy. the VQ was a major pull from nissans standard issue parts bin. The VQ is a great engine, yes. But not fit to be the motivation of a sports car. Its a fleet engine nothing more. Honda has its 3.2 liter, toyota has its 3.3 liter, and nissan has its 3.5 liter. I have to be honest though, my only real beef with the VQ is that its set to power the next Skyline. and unless nissan is willing to start swaping out packaging for the GT-R the VQ will never live up to the RB26DETT

 

[rollazn]

You are probably the only one who consider a 350Z is a compact. Even though they can be classified as a compact they aren't. Wonder why?

 

[Jay]

The SR20DET when compared to the VQ35DE is underpowered. It’s a lot weaker and has a lot of less torque.

Underpowered? 2L compared to 3.5L

S15 SR20DET = 250hp = 125hp/L
Z33 VQ35DE = 290hp = 83hp/L

and the SR20 is not alot weaker

The only reason the 350Z changed to SR20DET was because it was better for drifting. Which is what the driver/company wanted to do at the time, the V6 blew up and they just replaced it with a SR20DET which I think wasn’t that bad of a move considering they want a drifting 350Z.

I think they blew up 2 VQ35's and they switched to SR20 because they know the in's and out's of the SR (this is the example ive seen), and they dont leave the SR stock.


BTW I like the VQ35DE

 

[rollazn]

Underpowered? 2L compared to 3.5L

S15 SR20DET = 250hp = 125hp/L
Z33 VQ35DE = 290hp = 83hp/L

and the SR20 is not alot weaker

Well I wasn't considering horsepower per liter, but okay. Plus the SR20DET is turbocharged, look at the SR20DE its way weaker.

But whatever the case is, for the 350Z, the VQ35DE is a much better engine. Why would anyone choose a SR20DET over VQ35DE? I mean I can understand to be different but replacing a 3.5L V6 for a 2L Inline 4 is not what most people would do. I can probably understand replacing it if the engine blew or if they wanted to do something like Drifting. Even with that the VQ does a great job, dispite the weight.

Don't get me wrong, im not saying if I was to make a 350Z a drift car that I would replace the VQ. I actually think it would be a tad harder to drift with the SR20DET at first. If you replace the VQ the engine weight transfer wouldn't be perfect, but with a little of modification the SR is a killer engine.

Don't get me wrong, I love the SR20DET. If I had a 240SX, the first thing that would go would have to be the KA24 for the SR20DET or maybe if I can find a cheap RB20DET that would be what I choose.

I think they blew up 2 VQ35's and they switched to SR20 because they know the in's and out's of the SR (this is the example ive seen), and they dont leave the SR stock.


BTW I like the VQ35DE

Yeah, I know they didn't leave the SR stock. The reason they picked the SR20DET is because most of the 240SX in the drifting world have SR20DET. So therefore they tried it out, and it fitted great.

I like both SR and VQ also.

BTW isn't this topic about 240SX? Haha.

 

[flohtingPoint]

Swapping the VQ for the SR is not very wise in my opinion. Why do it when the VQ is very capable of being tuned and its one hell of an engine?

Because! You need the omgdzdriftzor motor to getz the propz!

I seriously hate drifting... Its turned every conversation about Nissan into one big gay drift gab. I cant wait till the world wakes up and see's that drifting is figure skating in cars.

Peabody, fetch me the "way back" machine so I can return to the time before initial d made everyone into mindless drifters. Back before these idiots took to public roads and tried to become uber street drifters. Either that, or show me alot of highlight clips of them curbing their cars, or putting them in ditches.

SR Vs VQ, I'll take a VQ with a side of SR is overrated.

 

[ND4SPD]

that drifting is figure skating in cars.

So apparently, I need really tight pants to drift now?