G25 to Fanatec

[cpp214]

If anyone out there in GT-land is interested, I will try and provide you with a description of my transition from the Logitech G25 to the Fanatec GT3RS wheel.

I thought about simply adding this to the existing Sixaxis to G25 thread, but I felt that the topic was probably worthy of its own thread, as it deals more with transitioning from one type of wheel to another rather than simply switching from the sixaxis to a wheel (G25 in particular). Also, I'm sure there are many DFGT/G25/Logitech wheel users in general who might be interested in reading someone's transition from the G25 to the Fanatec GT3RS wheel--just in case they are considering making the switch. However, I'm sure a moderator will kindly step in if they feel this thread needs to be moved to the steering wheel section, or simply closed if it proves to be tedious or unecessary

Back in early April, I decided to go ahead and purchase a wheel in the hopes that I would become a better driver in GT5P. At the time, my decision came down to buying one of two wheels--the G25 or the Fanatec GT3RS/Clubsport package. Both wheels were pretty close in terms of price ($250 shipped for the G25 vs. $309 shipped for the Fanatec + $49 for the shifter set) when you consider that the Clubsport pedals were touted to be significantly better than the G25 pedals. I eventually decided to order the G25 since I was eager to get started with a wheel as soon as possible, and didn't want to wait 3 + months to receive the Fanatec. Basic expediency was the only reason I chose the G25 over the Fanatec.

It will soon be 5 months since I first began using a wheel in GT5P, and I couldn't be happier that I decided to start playing the GT series the way I think it was meant to be played. The game is much more enjoyable with a wheel and yes, I was able to do what I had hoped--shave quite a bit of time off my laps and become much more consistent in races.

But I never quite lost my fascination with the Fanatec wheel and its supposed superiority to the G25. About a month ago, I received a nice little annual bonus at work--nothing major, enough to cover a GT3RS Clubsport package with a little left over. So I decided to go ahead and see if the Fanatec wheel was everything it's cracked up to be, and I went ahead and ordered one.

No, my G25 was not malfunctioning. In fact, in the last month, I've made even further gains in speed and consistency with the G25. I guess all I can say is that GT5P is my "hobby" or favorite passtime if you will. I don't hunt, fish, shop or travel very much at all. So I am more than happy to spend a little money when I have it if I think that my experience with this game can be enhanced.

Today, the GT3RS arrived, and I took it for a spin in Prologue. To be honest, I thought I would just be able to plug it in and run the same (I was hoping faster ) laptimes as I had been running just yesterday with the G25. Well, maybe it's just me, (and I might be slower on the uptake than some of you) but I can almost guarantee that if you are under the impression--as I was--that you will be up to speed right away when switching from the G25 to the GT3RS, unfortunately that won't be the case.

The first combo I tried was the Tuned Corvette at 800 PP Suzuka. After about 20 minutes, I was a little over 1 second off my previous best lap there.. I then decided to take one of the most "epic" cars in the game for a spin--the Tuned 111/R at Suzuka on S2's. Well, I was about 4 seconds off my previous best arcade TT lap there after about 15 minutes and I quickly decided to switch to something else. I took the F430 out for a go at my Suzuka TT time--a lap I just set a week or two ago. I think I managed something like 35th there, which is a time I am quite happy with considering that is one of the more competitive time trials in the game. Right away, my initial concerns and fears were eased somewhat, as I fairly quickly managed a time within 1 second of my best there. If you can imagine it, the F430 actually understeers noticeably with the GT3RS compared to the G25, where the F430 can can become quite tail-happy if you are not careful. None of that with the Fanatec wheel. I was on the throttle much sooner and with more confidence than I ever would have been with the G25.

I then moved on again to 800 PP Suzuka and tried my hand at the GTLM. I was really amazed here. The GT3RS makes the GTLM a breeze. In fact, that car handles so well with the Fanatec wheel it's just disgusting. I had to double-check and make sure I hadn't selected Standard physics by mistake--I'm not kidding. Within about 15 minutes, I was within .2 of my previous best in that car, and was running lap after lap without drama, in one of the top two or three most epic, evil-handling cars in the game. I could have sworn that I was going much, much faster than I had with the G25 only a day or two eariler, but I wasn't. Why not? The brakes...

This brings me to one of my only concerns with the GT3RS/Clubsport package at the moment. I was throwing the GTLM around Suzuka with reckless abandon. I was getting on the gas sooner than I had ever dreamed of at the exit of Casio, Dunlop and Spoon 2. But I am convinced that what is keeping me from equalling, if not bettering my G25 times is the fact that I am finding it difficult to modulate the Clubsport brakes. It seems as though you are always either applying too little or too much brake. In order to get maximum braking, you really have to mash the pedal--much more so than the G25 brake. I am quite certain that I'm currently losing the remainder of my previous best times due to errors under braking/scrubbing off too much speed. By the end of the night, I was starting to get the hang of it though, and had managed to get within .6 of my previous best in the Tuned Corvette at 800 PP.

My intial impressions of the GT3RS and Clubsport Pedals:

-What you've heard is indeed true. The force feedback from the GT3RS is noticeably better than the G25. There is NO deadzone. Just smooth, strong, consistent feedback from lock to lock.

-The Clubsport pedals are a "weapons grade" piece of kit. They feel great under your feet. The gas pedal is a little "floppier" than the G25 gas pedal, but I like it that way. It has more throw and it gives me the impression that I can modulate throttle inputs slightly better than with the G25, but this may just be a delusion

-The GT3RS wheel diameter is slightly bigger compared to the G25 and you notice it right away when driving. The increased size, coupled with the smoother force feedback sort of forces you to be smoother and more deliberate with your steering inputs. In the long run I think this should be very beneficial.

-At the moment, I think the FFB settings I am running need a bit of tweaking.
I think they are a bit stronger than what I would like to be running eventually.
I have FFB set to 10 in game and 66% on the wheel (yes, you can adjust it on the fly which is very nice, along with having all the buttons on the wheel itself which should be very handy for in-race funcitions as well as looking left/right and behind)

-Also, I am more tired in my back and shoulders than I would be after a similar session with the G25. I think this is mainly due to the fact that the GT3RS sits slightly higher on my desk than the G25 did, and consequently I'm holding my arms slightly higher. Also, the force feedback is stronger, but in a good way It's very smooth (yes, that word again, but it's the best one I can think of to describe it) and not as rough and unpredictable as the G25.
Also, my left foot is a little stiff and tired after working that brake

These are my initial impressions after my first sit-down with the Fanatec wheel. I must say that I am a little concerned that I was not immediately as quick as I had been with the G25, but I think that it will take some time to get used to the Fanatec wheel and pedals. It's the same game, same cars, same tracks, but they all feel dramatically different with the Fanatec wheel. I still cannot believe the way the F430 and GTLM handle with the Fanatec wheel It's really unbelieveable to be honest. I was throwing the GTLM around like a rag doll! With not a care in the world

Sorry for the long post. I had a hard time trying to think of how describe my first impressions with this new wheel, and at the same time make them interesting for people who are thinking of switching from a Logitech to Fanatec. Also, if Biggles, NoxNoctis Umbra and Timeattack (or anyone else for that matter) would like to add their thoughts on the GT3RS that would be great. And if anyone has any questions that I can help with, please post your thoughts here and I will do my best to give you a good response. I'll try to post some updates on my progress and any futher impressions I have (in a much more abbreviated manner ) in the days to come.

 

[Ren]

Nice write up! Appreciated. Reading your impressions just motivated me even more to make a plan to get my hands on a fanatec! Prob is getting one down to South Africa.... Even if I could convince Fanatec to make an exception to ship one outside Europe/US I run the risk of paying bloddy 40% Duty and/or luxury articles tax on top Can anyone comment on this?

I bet you will be able to match your times soon, I would also believe you will improve even. At least for me good laptimes and consistancy is highly dependant on confidence you have. And confidence is what I read between the lines of your write up. I can tell you that my confidence level is rock bottom and falling with my DFGT. The deadzone increased from suspicious to sheerly unacceptabel in the few month I've used it. I'm a friend of stronger fb adjustments, but thanks to the DFGTs "rattleforce", not feedback, I reduced it severly, also hoping to prolong the wheels obviously ending lifespan.

Tip for all DFGT users with similar problems that are like me looking for an excuse to switch (meaning it doesn't matter if the DFGT dies): I am greasing the plastic gears regularly with standard ball bearing grease. It takes away the better part of the deadzone and makes the wheel not smooth but maybe less rattly. I'm just not sure whats gonna happen if the grease at some point reaches the electronics.....

Anyway, I'm getting carried away here! Just wanted to say thanks for your input and not write more doing so than you originally did LOL. And I wanted to through in a question:
What can you say about the clutch and shifter (sequential as well as H-pattern of course). I've read plenty of good stuff about these items as well, can you confirm?

Cheers
ren

 

[Synwraith]

Excellent thread and really very interesting reading your well-written thoughts Carl.

Please don't make us all have to go and by an RS3

All the best
Maz

 

[Mr P]

Great write up Carl and very informative for those of us still stuck in the dark ages with the DFGT and DFP and considering a move to the more expensive wheels 👍
Cheers bud

 

[RSwagoneer]

Nice write up there. I'm still happy with the G25 for now.
But reading it all makes you wonder what if ....
Bad for the ease of mind and wallet in the end.

Bryan

 

[vr6wantsr20det]

good read, although i wish i hadn't read it(not wanting to spend money). My g25 is slowly dying, the FFB motors are loose inside the wheel housing. For example riding the banks on Daytona road course you can feel a very un-natural vibration shaking of the FFB engaging, disengaging, it's fine when your hard in a turn and the weight is shifting so the FFB is strong and fully on, but it's the light increments that you can feel the odd vibration. I have my original G25 wheel that this one was a replacement for and it's in better shape, but i'm waiting for this one to die (or to the point i can't stand it anymore) before i swap back. But the Fanatec has been on my mind for quite some time. 👍

Good question, does it come with any type of warranty?

 

[Schmo]

Nice post. I was curious on how different they where. You explained you couldnt match your G25 times right? But some more powerful cars handled better? To me thats not much of an improvement and worth the extra cash.

I'll be getting a Logictech G27 when it comes out. Logictech has always been faithful and reliable to me. In fact I'm still using my original GT Force from GT3, and it works great, even with Prologue. I just dont think the Fanatec wheel is worth the extra IMO. Plus I dont like the look of it and the pedals. In the end it just may come down to preference as you where still hitting good laps times before with the G25.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us.

 

[cpp214]

Nice write up! Appreciated. Reading your impressions just motivated me even more to make a plan to get my hands on a fanatec! Prob is getting one down to South Africa.... Even if I could convince Fanatec to make an exception to ship one outside Europe/US I run the risk of paying bloddy 40% Duty and/or luxury articles tax on top Can anyone comment on this?

I bet you will be able to match your times soon, I would also believe you will improve even. At least for me good laptimes and consistancy is highly dependant on confidence you have. And confidence is what I read between the lines of your write up. I can tell you that my confidence level is rock bottom and falling with my DFGT. The deadzone increased from suspicious to sheerly unacceptabel in the few month I've used it. I'm a friend of stronger fb adjustments, but thanks to the DFGTs "rattleforce", not feedback, I reduced it severly, also hoping to prolong the wheels obviously ending lifespan.

Tip for all DFGT users with similar problems that are like me looking for an excuse to switch (meaning it doesn't matter if the DFGT dies): I am greasing the plastic gears regularly with standard ball bearing grease. It takes away the better part of the deadzone and makes the wheel not smooth but maybe less rattly. I'm just not sure whats gonna happen if the grease at some point reaches the electronics.....

Anyway, I'm getting carried away here! Just wanted to say thanks for your input and not write more doing so than you originally did LOL. And I wanted to through in a question:
What can you say about the clutch and shifter (sequential as well as H-pattern of course). I've read plenty of good stuff about these items as well, can you confirm?

Cheers
ren

Hi Ren, and thanks for the kind words. Actually, the shifter cable was missing from the box the shifter set came in yesterday I e-mailed Fanatec and asked them to please send a cable to me. So I haven't been able to test the clutch/h-pattern shifter yet. I will say the Fanatec gearstick is much stiffer than the G25 as people have said. It was quite difficult to move between gears compared to the G25. I would like to be able to give it a try and tell you if it's better. Hopefully I will be able to hook the shifter up soon and tell you. I have to say in the few correspondences I've had with their customer support, they have been very helpful and answered any questions I've had very promptly.

Excellent thread and really very interesting reading your well-written thoughts Carl.

Please don't make us all have to go and by an RS3

All the best
Maz

Hi Maz--I would say after sleeping on it, that my initial impression is that you probably have very little to worry about if you own a G25. The GT3RS is probably not going to make you quicker than the G25. I could see where it will most definitely make some of the more difficult cars easier to handle, especially for race pace consistency. And I think it may allow you to be smoother and more consistent than the G25, but only time will tell as they say. Any decrease in hot lap times, if at all, will probably be miniscule and would just be icing on the cake *fingers crossed*

good read, although i wish i hadn't read it(not wanting to spend money). My g25 is slowly dying, the FFB motors are loose inside the wheel housing. For example riding the banks on Daytona road course you can feel a very un-natural vibration shaking of the FFB engaging, disengaging, it's fine when your hard in a turn and the weight is shifting so the FFB is strong and fully on, but it's the light increments that you can feel the odd vibration. I have my original G25 wheel that this one was a replacement for and it's in better shape, but i'm waiting for this one to die (or to the point i can't stand it anymore) before i swap back. But the Fanatec has been on my mind for quite some time. 👍

Good question, does it come with any type of warranty?

Yes, the Fanatec wheel comes with a two year warranty. I would suspect it is very similar to the Logitech wheel warranty, in that you just send the wheel to Fanatec, they fix it, and reimburse you for postage during the two years 👍

Nice post. I was curious on how different they where. You explained you couldnt match your G25 times right? But some more powerful cars handled better? To me thats not much of an improvement and worth the extra cash.

I'll be getting a Logictech G27 when it comes out. Logictech has always been faithful and reliable to me. In fact I'm still using my original GT Force from GT3, and it works great, even with Prologue. I just dont think the Fanatec wheel is worth the extra IMO. Plus I dont like the look of it and the pedals. In the end it just may come down to preference as you where still hitting good laps times before with the G25.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us.

No, I haven't yet matched my G25 times in any car. But I came very, very close in the GTLM, and yes, the Fanatec does make this car much easier to drive. It's still touch-and-go at Turn 1 at Suzuka though--lift off too much and too soon and the rear will cut loose on you. But with the Fanatec, even this type of episode is very controllable and you can usually just powerslide the car through the corner. At Casio, the GTLM almost understeers with the GT3RS. You really have to crank the wheel to rotate the GTLM through there, and you can get on the gas much eariler than with the G25. It's just unbelieveable really what this wheel does to that car But, I keep telling myself that it is on R3 tires, and the real tests will come with cars such as the 111/R, 512 BB's, etc. on S2 tires...we'll see, but I'm hopeful that I will eventually be able to handle those better as well.

Great write up Carl and very informative for those of us still stuck in the dark ages with the DFGT and DFP and considering a move to the more expensive wheels Cheers bud

Thanks Ron 👍 I was hoping I could help out somebody who might be thinking about getting a Fanatec. As I said to Maz above, if you have a G25 or DFGT, I don't think you need to be worried that the other guy with the Fanatec will have an unfair advantage. In fact, until I'm able to match my G25 times, I won't be willing to say the Fanatec is an advantage at all. But if you are thinking of moving to a new wheel anyway, I guess it comes down to either a Fanatec, the G27 or a discounted G25, and I have to say that I'm very impressed with the Fanatec so far. But if the G25 is discounted to 100 Pounds/Euros, I'd be hard pressed to tell you to spend twice as much for the Fanatec. Although I think the "experience" itself with the Fanatec wheel is a little more enjoyable than with a G25. It feels more like driving a real car. Smoother, quieter, better feedback. You really can't go wrong with any of those three wheels though, I wouldn't think

 

[Dijital Majik]

Excellent write up, thanks!

The write up had me considering the GT3RS clubsport package until I looked at the website and the stupid pricing scheme for Europe vs the US. The $299 package works out at $427 for us...

 

[The Outlaw]

Another great write up Carl I was looking forward to your comparison of the two wheels, as I wanted to get an impression from someone who has a good amount of experience playing GT5P, and is a very competent driver.

It's funny because I had a feeling that you were going to like the GT3 wheel and FFB quality a lot, but find the brake to be a little bit of challenge when compared to the G25. I will say that it's taken me quite some time to get comfortable with the Fanatec brake, and it has been the most challenging aspect for me when transitioning from pad to wheel. As you, I often found myself (and still do) under or overbraking for a turn and not being able to modulate the brake quite as well as I would like, or as quickly as I like...it just feels a bit numb and unresponsive at times. It seems like consistent threshold braking is a bit on the difficult side with these pedals, or at least more difficult than with the G25.

When I first received my GT3 RS wheel and clubsport pedals (first production run), the brake was an absolute mess with a 1.25" initial deadzone, excessive force to get max brake, and excessive pedal travel. These problems were all later sorted out by modifying the brake assembly with the different parts included in the kit, and also by downloading the updated firmware. So now the brake is much better than it was before, but modulating the brake still doesn't seem to be as easy as it could or should be, especially when you're trying to modulate the brake around 50% load. The design of the brake system (load cell) is new to the pedal market AFAIK. At times it feels like this design forces the driver to understand more so how much load/force he is applying to the pedal, without the necessary travel at times to help you realize how much brake you're applying. With my current setup it seems like once I get about half way down the travel of the pedal, MUCH more (an excessive amount IMO) of the braking force is then dependent on load rather than travel.

I'm going to order various durometer slugs to replace the seafoam in the brake assembly, to see if this possibly helps or improves the braking. I'm hoping with a different durometer slug that the brake modulation and force will be improved, or at least be more to my liking. I think with a harder slug, the initial half inch travel will be dramatically more responsive at least...which would be something I would like. I'll keep you updated on my findings 👍

Stupid questions: Do you know if it's possible to map the buttons for the GT3RS wheel in GT5P? I need to map quite a few buttons, including the handbrake and panning views buttons. I still have yet to use the clutch in this game either...you know what button activates the clutch?

 

[cpp214]

Stupid questions: Do you know if it's possible to map the buttons for the GT3RS wheel in GT5P? I need to map quite a few buttons, including the handbrake and panning views buttons. I still have yet to use the clutch in this game either...you know what button activates the clutch?

These aren't stupid questions at all mate, I was thinking of asking someone how to map the buttons as a matter of fact. I know for the G25, you had to set up the button mapping under the Driving Force Pro wheel in the options page. I don't know if you can do that with the Fanatec wheels or not. To be honest, I probably won't bother, as I've never really used the in race functions options menu anyway, and I just mainly use the look left/right behind buttons for racing and these seem to be positioned nicely on the GT3RS. I believe in order to activate the clutch, you'll need to press the triangle button on the GT3RS (the top right button on the right hand side of the wheel I think) when you get on the track. You also had to do this for the G25. And you'll have to do it each time you enter a race or a time trial.

Also, do you have your brake pedal in the first hole or the second hole Brock? I was thinking about moving mine up to the second hole and see if that helps. My main problem right now is getting that last 20% of travel to reach maximum braking with the clubsports. It's like my reflexes tell me one thing--that I'm reaching maximum braking--but with the clubsports I have to mash the pedal that extra little 20% to reach maximum. I wonder if shortening the throw by moving it to the second hole would help? And I didn't receive the extra metal slug with my clubsports. I think Thomas with Fanatec said that the second batch didn't receive these because they got the brake issues sorted after people gave feedback from the first batch.

 

[vr6wantsr20det]

Yes, the Fanatec wheel comes with a two year warranty. I would suspect it is very similar to the Logitech wheel warranty, in that you just send the wheel to Fanatec, they fix it, and reimburse you for postage during the two years 👍


That sounds better (hopefully hastle free) warranty. My first G25 started clicking (when fighting the force feedback) after about 2-1/2 months of owner ship. I played Gt5p and Live for speed. I do drift often so the wheel does take some abuse, but i'm not slamming it lock-to-lock, but i am grabbing the wheel and fighting the force feedback for weight transfers and counter-steering. But they were pretty good about getting me the replacement. Sent Logitech the shifter (kept wheel/pedals) and they sent me a whole new unit. About 3-4 months after i get the new one, this one is in worse shape then the original. So i called them up again and explained the situation and how this was a replacement for the original, and the representative told me i shouldn't have gotten a replacement in the first place. The sound/clicking/vibration was normal when fighting the force-feedback motors over time. His words were "It's a plastic TOY" which i can understand but a $280.00 piece of hardware i expected a little bit more out of it and quality wise. I was annoyed but not surprised by their response.

Hence once these G25's run their course i will have to give the Fanatec a go, hopefully the 2yr warranty is on all parts etc. 👍

 

[cpp214]

Well, I think I am going to try to adjust the clubsport brake tonight.
First, I am going to remove the spring on the brake rod and see what effect that has. Hopefully, that will remove enough resistance to allow for more throw and more precise brake application, as well as the ability to reach maximum braking more smoothly and efficiently. If that doesn't work, I'll try trimming the PU foam piece in the brake module by maybe 25% and see if that allows for more travel, and test it with both the spring attached and unattached. Finally, if those "fixes" don't work, I'll try moving the brake rod to the second hole and see if, paradoxically, shortening the throw will somehow improve braking consistency and performance.

I think I had enough seat time with the pedals last night to see that it is going to take quite a while to get accustomed to the clubsport brake in its stock configuration. I don't fault Fanatec at all for the initial difficulties I experienced last night. I'm simply accustomed to a much softer brake on the G25 and the clubsport brake is the antithesis to this insofar as it is much, much stiffer. The nice thing about the clubsport pedals is that they are highly customizeable and I can always change things back if these modifications don't pan out 👍

 

[EL_ZISSOU]

And if anyone has any questions that I can help with, please post your thoughts here and I will do my best to give you a good response.

can you show us your setup?

 

[BenzAMG]

I would love to see some pictures of your setup with the new wheel in action!

Thank for sharing your thoughts about this wheel! I think it is interesting for many people who already own a G25 and thinking(or dreaming) about updating to the fanatec.

 

[The Outlaw]

These aren't stupid questions at all mate, I was thinking of asking someone how to map the buttons as a matter of fact. I know for the G25, you had to set up the button mapping under the Driving Force Pro wheel in the options page. I don't know if you can do that with the Fanatec wheels or not. To be honest, I probably won't bother, as I've never really used the in race functions options menu anyway, and I just mainly use the look left/right behind buttons for racing and these seem to be positioned nicely on the GT3RS. I believe in order to activate the clutch, you'll need to press the triangle button on the GT3RS (the top right button on the right hand side of the wheel I think) when you get on the track. You also had to do this for the G25. And you'll have to do it each time you enter a race or a time trial.

Also, do you have your brake pedal in the first hole or the second hole Brock? I was thinking about moving mine up to the second hole and see if that helps. My main problem right now is getting that last 20% of travel to reach maximum braking with the clubsports. It's like my reflexes tell me one thing--that I'm reaching maximum braking--but with the clubsports I have to mash the pedal that extra little 20% to reach maximum. I wonder if shortening the throw by moving it to the second hole would help? And I didn't receive the extra metal slug with my clubsports. I think Thomas with Fanatec said that the second batch didn't receive these because they got the brake issues sorted after people gave feedback from the first batch.

Unfortunately, I gotta run in just a second so I'll make this short. Thought I'd just give you a little heads up before you start experimenting tonight 👍

I have the brake rod in the first hole. The second hole makes the throw nearly twice as short as the first hole and also increases the amount of forced required to activate full braking. I ran this set-up for a day and didn't like it much at all. I ended up going back to the first hole, with the longer rod in the brake assembly...which I believe all CSP come with from the factory now.

I think cutting the PU foam slightly might help increase brake response and decrease the pressured required to activate full braking...just don't cut it too short or you may be forced to run the 2nd hole though. It might be worth a try if you take a little bit off at a time. I also have a feeling that the PU foam in its original state might bind up inside the brake assembly at times, which could cause slight inconsistencies in braking. Shortening the foam may help a bit with this issue...if it is there.

Also, don't take the spring out in the brake assembly. If you do this, the pedal then has no way of returning to its neutral position. This would cause all sorts of binding problems especially while playing.

Good luck

 

[Biggles]

Good review Carl.

Well, I have a confession to make: after setting up my GT3 RS wheel I spent a couple of days racing with it - I tried GT5P, FC & F1CE - I then switched back to my G25 & haven't used the Fanatec wheel since!

This is not because the RS wheel isn't a good product - it is - but it definitely has its pro & cons vs the G25.

The wheel is larger, thicker, has stronger & much smoother FFB than the G25 & in the end feels much more like driving a real car - at least a real road car - than the G25 does.

The Clubsport pedals are unquestionably superior to the G25's - heavy & solid, they feel like the "real" pedals rather than "pretend" pedals. I didn't do any mods to my pedals, but still felt perfectly comfortable using them right from the start.

The gears shifters, well, there's a bit of a mixed story. Where the G25 shifter is disappointingly "floppy", the Fanatec H-shifter is unpleasantly stiff. I don't know if anyone has either reduced the stiffness, or adjusted to it, but I found it hard to use. Of course, the G25 shifter is hard to use also, but I've spent two years getting used to it! Unfortunately, my Fanatec shifter seems to be malfunctioning (I'm planning on returning it to Fanatec for a replacement), so I haven't had the chance to adjust to it.

The paddle shifters, while not bad, are unquestionably inferior to the G25's.

One of the big cons of the Fanatec wheel for me, is that it does not integrate as well with the Playseat Evo as the G25 does. I love my (new) Playseat & although it is possible to mod the seat & (possibly) the Fanatec shifters so that they work better together, the Fanatec pedals are so heavy & bulky that they do not fit neatly on the Playseat frame the way the G25's do. The G25 + Playseat Evo just fit together extremely well.

In actual use, I find the Fanatec wheel delivers a much more realistic experience with the road cars in GT5P - as I said, it feels like you're driving a real car compared to the "notchy" feel of the G25, & the FFB is definitely stronger. In FC the smooth feel of the Fanatec & lack of wheel deadzone helps with the deadzone issue within the game itself. In both games, I felt smoother & faster with the Fanatec wheel, although I didn't actually record faster times (perhaps I would with more time).

However, with more race-oriented cars, I felt the Fanatec was almost too smooth feeling - I missed the gritty, racy feel (& look) of the G25. I'm pretty sure drifters would prefer the faster, looser feel of the G25. In F1CE, I'm positive the G25 provides a better approximation of F1 driving, both from the size & feel of the wheel & the feel of the paddle shifters.

I'll definitely spend more time with the RS wheel in the future (although switching the Playseat set-up from the G25 to the Fanatec & back is a bit of a pain), especially once I get the issues with the shifter resolved. However, I wouldn't say the Fanatec wheel is a "no-brainer" a a purchase over the G25 (or G27). Even though the Fanatec is overall definitely a more "advanced" & "sophisticated product, there are pros & cons to each wheel...

 

[cpp214]

Hey guys, I just thought I would give you a little update on what I've done tonight. I took out a saw and trimmed off about an inch and a half off the bottom of the table legs where I have the wheel mounted. It sits about that much taller than the G25, and I've had to stack a couple of books underneath my TV to get it positioned right, but now I'm pretty comfortable with my setup. Also, thanks for the advice TA, but I already went ahead with the least-invasive remedy I could think of to help the braking situation, and I removed the spring from the brake rod In his tutorial video, I'm pretty sure Thomas mentions you can keep it in or leave it out, and I've seen where a couple of other people have done it on different forums with good results. So I'm hopeful I won't wind up with any binding issues.

EDIT: I just double-checked the YouTube tutorial Thomas made, and he says from 6:01 to 6:09 "the spring (brake) is a matter of taste, you can leave it in or take it out." Hopefully there won't be any issues as a result. I can always put it back in if I need to 👍

I have to say, that seems to have helped dramatically with the brakes They are not nearly as stiff as before, and they are much closer to the G25 brakes now in terms of resistance. It's up to you, but if I were you TA, I would give it a try and see what you think. It's really made a big difference.
I've only had Prologue up and running for a few minutes, but already I'm back to within .3 of my Tuned Vette time at Suzuka, and I'm hitting 50.00 flat T1's with regularity again, and I'm pretty sure it's all down to removing the spring from the brake.

I'm going to get back to practicing now, but I think I'm just about ready to get back on the racetrack at 800 PP, probably a little later tonight

@ Biggles--thanks for providing your perspective on the GT3RS 👍
I'm a bit nervous at the thought you have taken yours down, but I see the reasoning behind it. I'm going to give the wheel a little while longer before I pass a final judgment on it. After initially hoping for reduced laptimes, I would now be satisfied if the GT3RS provides parity with the G25, as I enjoy using the GT3RS quite a lot, and I'm also liking the clubsport pedals quite a bit.

@ EL_ZISSOU--here are some pictures of my setup below. This is where the
magic happens

The only thing different from my G25 setup is the different wheel. I moved up closer to the screen about 6 weeks ago, and it's taken at least a tenth or two off my average laptimes and improved my race consistency noticeably. I would highly recommend to anyone out there to get up as close to your TV monitor as your eyes will allow. I have a 26" TV and when I scoot my chair up, my eyes are between 22 and 25 inches from the screen. Before, I was sitting 49" away and thought I was close enough But you have to understand, before I got a wheel, I was lying back on my bed half the time with the sixaxis, and my eyes were about 6 FEET from the screen...what was I thinking?

I'll be sure to open up another can of forum-spam with an update tomorrow

 

[The Outlaw]

I guess I should put some soap in my mouth That's interesting that the brake seem to work dramatically better without the spring. I guess even without the spring there isn't enough load to activate the load cell when you aren't on the brake pedal. I will definitely give this a shot later tonight and report back 👍

 

[WolfRacer543]

*snip*...

I'm glad to hear your impressions of the wheel also, given that I'm a G25 owner who would like a nicer wheel but doesn't want to shell out for a Fanatec What you've said basically confirms what I thought was the case from reading other reviews. That is, given I spend a lot of time racing open wheelers and race cars, the Fanatec would be more of a "side-grade" rather than an upgrade for me.

 

[Biggles]

I'm glad to hear your impressions of the wheel also, given that I'm a G25 owner who would like a nicer wheel but doesn't want to shell out for a Fanatec What you've said basically confirms what I thought was the case from reading other reviews. That is, given I spend a lot of time racing open wheelers and race cars, the Fanatec would be more of a "side-grade" rather than an upgrade for me.

@ Biggles--thanks for providing your perspective on the GT3RS
I'm a bit nervous at the thought you have taken yours down, but I see the reasoning behind it.

Well, as I explained, I've only spent a few hours actually using the Fanatec wheel vs more than a thousand hours with the G25, so the feel of the G25 is completely "natural" to me. The reason I ordered the Fanatec wheel originally, was because my G25 was not working properly (first the shifter, then the wheel itself) & I felt rather than buying another G25, I would try something new. As I "fixed" the problem with my G25, I now have two functioning wheels. I certainly do intend to spend more time with the Fanatec wheel in the future.

Is the Fanatec an upgrade from the G25? In some ways, yes. Is it more enjoyable to use than a G25? Not necessarily.

I will say, on a side note, that I used my G25 for two years clamped to a (very sturdy) table & was perfectly satisfied with that arrangement. But I recently bought a Playseat Evo & I tend to think that having the Playseat may represent more of an "upgrade" to the racing sim experience than having a fancier wheel/pedal set. Don't know if that additional point helps clarify anything for anybody!

 

[panjandrum]

This is fantastic! I've been seriously considering the moving from the G25 to a Fanatic wheel myself and this is exactly the type of comparison I've been looking for. Great work!

My only concern is that you say the cars are easier to drive with the Fanatic? I'm one of those hard-core guys who thinks the cars in GT5p are already way too easy to drive since the original (Spec II) update so dramatically reduced the consequences of "doing bad things". Whereas the initial release required 100% concentration (like real racing), I now routinely do things like eat snacks or answer the phone and chat with family members while racing. That's just nuts. I definitely don't want things to get "easier," especially the wild cars like the Ferrari 512 and the Ford GT LM, both of which I like nice and wild and scary.

Can you describe the feeling of understeer better? Does it feel like real understeer? What you should feel, when you pass the limits of front-end grip, is a feeling almost as if you've moved from pavement to dirt (the amount you will feel depends so much on the car, tires, etc. that this is hard to describe accurately), but only with the front wheels. The steering should become lighter, and inputs at the steering wheel should produce far less response in the car than you would expect. As you slow down this should feel things weight-up again and grip. Counter-intuitively, if you maintain your speed but actually REDUCE steering input (that is, bring the wheels back towards center), you may be able to get the front wheels to grip again. This is the way real cars feel and behave once you pass their front-end grip limits, and a number of racing sims model it pretty well with the G25.

I was under the impressing that GT5P just doesn't model this properly with ANY wheel, but your post makes it sound as if you can now feel the understeer with your Fanatic. Is that correct? Could you possibly compare the understeer feedback (and in-game physics) a little more?

Thanks again for the great thread.

 

[cpp214]

This is fantastic! I've been seriously considering the moving from the G25 to a Fanatic wheel myself and this is exactly the type of comparison I've been looking for. Great work!

My only concern is that you say the cars are easier to drive with the Fanatic? I'm one of those hard-core guys who thinks the cars in GT5p are already way too easy to drive since the original (Spec II) update so dramatically reduced the consequences of "doing bad things". Whereas the initial release required 100% concentration (like real racing), I now routinely do things like eat snacks or answer the phone and chat with family members while racing. That's just nuts. I definitely don't want things to get "easier," especially the wild cars like the Ferrari 512 and the Ford GT LM, both of which I like nice and wild and scary.

Can you describe the feeling of understeer better? Does it feel like real understeer? What you should feel, when you pass the limits of front-end grip, is a feeling almost as if you've moved from pavement to dirt (the amount you will feel depends so much on the car, tires, etc. that this is hard to describe accurately), but only with the front wheels. The steering should become lighter, and inputs at the steering wheel should produce far less response in the car than you would expect. As you slow down this should feel things weight-up again and grip. Counter-intuitively, if you maintain your speed but actually REDUCE steering input (that is, bring the wheels back towards center), you may be able to get the front wheels to grip again. This is the way real cars feel and behave once you pass their front-end grip limits, and a number of racing sims model it pretty well with the G25.

I was under the impressing that GT5P just doesn't model this properly with ANY wheel, but your post makes it sound as if you can now feel the understeer with your Fanatic. Is that correct? Could you possibly compare the understeer feedback (and in-game physics) a little more?

Thanks again for the great thread.

Thanks for the comments and I'm glad that you found this thread helpful

As far as the cars being easier to drive with the Fanatec wheel:
After a little more time with the wheel last night, I would say that what makes the cars a little easier to drive is most likely a) the bigger wheel diameter of the Fanatec, and b) the stronger, more consistent force feedback of the wheel.

I think that because the wheel itself is larger, it gives you a little more control over the car than a smaller wheel would. Also, because it is bigger and the feedback is more potent, I am finding that to get the same level of turn-in for cornering, I am having to exert more steering force on the Fanatec wheel than I did on the G25. A few good examples of this would be Turn 1, Degner 1 and 2, the hairpin, Spoon exit 130R and Casio--pretty much every major corner at Suzuka. It took me an hour or so to re-learn how to approach Turn 1 and Degner 1 especially with the Fanatec wheel. I was tending to run wide/into the sand on these corners at first, because I hadn't yet learned how much turn-in force was required to achieve the same lines as I was used to taking with the G25.

Also, to address the force feedback comparison, when I say the Fanatec has stronger feedback, I don't want people to think it will rip their arms out
Yes, it is stronger than the G25, but it is very refined, smooth and more constant than the G25, so I think it gives you a little more confidence than the G25--not only at turn-in, but on corner exits especially. When you are steering heavily in one direction with the Fanatec, as you are at the exit of Spoon, the feedback in the wheel communicates more effectively than the G25 what amount of grip you have available, thus enabling you apply throttle a little earlier and with more confidence than the G25.

Now, as I've stated previously, I haven't yet matched my G25 times, but I'm coming very close-especially after improving the clubsport brake last night. As of right now, I'm thinking one of the small things that may be preventing me from matching the G25 times is the fact that I can get on the gas earlier on corner exits...I know, that sounds crazy doesn't it? You would think you would be faster because of that, but I am beginning to the think that by getting on the gas earlier, I may be inducing a little bit of understeer in some instances. That sounds weird, I know, but for example at the Spoon exit, I am feeling confident enough to get on the gas earlier than I had with the G25 because the steering feels so stable and I have a better idea of how the car is going to react. But by getting on the gas too soon, I am finding myself running a bit wide at times and either getting too far over on the rumble strips, or just plowing through the grass. I think I am going to need to learn how to turn in quicker and more sharply with the Fanatec, and maybe start letting the car "coast" a little more in the corners until I well and truly can get on the gas without inducing that slight bit of understeer.
I am noticing these things with the Tuned cars at 800 PP, but I really noticed these sort of understeer characteristics in the F430 on S2's in Arcade mode.

As far as worrying that the Fanatec may reduce the "seat of your pants" fun-factor of driving cars that are always on edge, I can see your point. But, my brief stint in the 111R, as well as the 800 PP Suzuka cars leads me to believe that the Fanatec does not make up for poor driving habits or for pushing a car beyond its limits. If you take too many liberties while driving, the cars will still most certainly make you pay for it. In fact, I think the Fanatec punishes you a little more than the G25 for taking improper lines, because the G25 is a slightly "quicker" wheel that allows you to jerk the car back in line a little easier. With the Fanatec and its bigger diameter, it's more difficult to get the car back on the preferred line (in the esses at Suzuka for example). Also, I would say that the seat of your pants feeling we associate with some of the cars in GT5P is due to the fact that we have played the game either with a sixaxis or a Logitech wheel with a "deadzone."

I think I can explain what the G25 deadzone was like much easier now that I can compare it to the Fanatec. Very often, the G25 would "psyche me out"
so to speak, and make me think I was about to have an oversteer/loss of traction event, when in fact that's not what was happening at all.
Case in point: take a corner like Dunlop for example. In many high-powered cars with S tires (or even some with R tires) it was always tricky with the G25 as far as knowing how soon you could apply and maintain throttle without oversteering. For example, with the G25, I might be 1/3 of the way up the hill at Dunlop, with quite a bit of steering lock on, and all of a sudden I feel a loss of tension in the wheel that indicates to me that I'm going to lose grip in an instant, so I immediately countersteer slightly to the right in an effort to avoid a spin out. Well, what would often happen was that when I would countersteer to the right, I would just lurch to the right and lose who knows how much time, because in fact I wasn't about to oversteer at all. I had simply gotten "faked out" by the small, but noticeable dead zone in the G25.

Sorry for the long-winded answer

 

[Biggles]

I think Carl is spot on with his comments. I think that the Fanatec does remove a bit of the "seat-of-your-pants" feel of driving with the G25 (& that seat-of-the-pants feel does seem more appropriate to highly strung sports/race cars than it does to a regular road car), which is partly due to the G25's "dead-zone. This is especially true of FC which (as I believe I've already pointed out a number of times ), has much more descriptive FFB than GT5P (but a significant "dead-zone"). In GT5P the Fanatec delivers smoother, stronger & more constant FFB than the G25. I really believe it's more "realistic" in that way, but not necessarily more "fun" (& I would also agree that the G25 is "quicker", which is why I suspect drifters might prefer it).

With regard to the ease of driving in GT5P, I honestly think that has a lot to do with the incredible amount of times most people have driven the tracks in GT5P - it takes a lot of the "guess-work" out of the driving.

 

[panjandrum]

Wow, thanks for the excellent detailed response to my questions. I think I'll probably end up going with a Fanatic in the near future. I do expect I'll like it (for one thing, the stiffer brake pedal sounds REALLY nice to me. All my G25 and DFP pedals are modified to provide a feel which is closer to that of a real car).

Sorry for this one last question: Did you have to play with any settings, either on the wheel itself or the GT5p software, to get things to work correctly?

 

[cpp214]

Sorry for this one last question: Did you have to play with any settings, either on the wheel itself or the GT5p software, to get things to work correctly?

Yes, I am still working on the Force Feedback settings with the Fanatec, trying to settle on what feels best. Right now, I have the in game FFB settings at 7, and I have the wheel set on 66% FFB. That feels pretty good at the moment. But, even at these relatively low settings, the Fanatec is just as strong--maybe?--if not stronger than the G25 set at maximum FFB Not violently strong, but strong enough that you notice it a little more than the G25 after a 30 minute session for example. I can feel it in my back, arms and shoulders a little bit.

As far as getting the wheel ready to play GT5P, it couldn't be much easier.
I just plugged it in the USB port as I would have the G25. Before turning the wheel on (hold two buttons down at the same time to do this) I just set the date on my PS3 to a date before 12/08. Once in the game--not while in the XMB menu--you hold down two of the wheel buttons, and it turns itself on.
As for the pedals, I went ahead and installed the firmware update to reduce the brake deadzone prior to using them, but I don't think you even have to do that to them. Just plug them into the wheel and you're ready to go. I would install the software first though, and just double-check to make sure that the pedals are reaching their maximum values 👍

Still haven't matched my G25 times yet after a couple hours practice tonight... This is going to take a little while. I'm noticing that the Fanatec responds to car setups slightly differently than the G25. For example, I tried out the TLD Corvette setup for 800 PP tonight, and I went slightly quicker than I had with a tune I got from a friend--which I absolutely loved with the G25

The brake is doing really well again so far tonight. Much closer to what the G25 is like. And Brock, I just thought of this today, but when I suggested you try removing the spring from the brake, I wasn't thinking of how much time you have spent getting comfortable with the stiffer brake. The softer brake may not be to your liking at all mate. But, you can always change it back if you don't like it, although the pedals can take a little while to take apart and put back together--it took me about 30 minutes last night. But then again, I'm a moron when it comes to things like that. If I can take them apart and put them back together and they work fine, then anybody should be able to tweak them

I'm also noticing that in order to "quicken up" the Fanatec, it is helping a little to raise steering angles higher than I normally would have with the G25. For example, I am finding that an angle of 50 is working better with the Corvette than 40 or 42 did. To get the same times with the Fanatec as I got with the G25, I am going to have to learn the "ins and outs" of the GT3RS, much the same as I did with the G25. The two wheels obviously require different techniques to achieve the same times--I'm slowly getting more comfortable with the Fanatec. Practice, practice, practice...

 

[IsmokeGT]

Carl- does the Fanatec wheel hold up better than the G25 wheel when it comes to Oreo cookies filling being smeared all over it?

 

[cpp214]

Carl- does the Fanatec wheel hold up better than the G25 wheel when it comes to Oreo cookies filling being smeared all over it?

I don't know man. It seems pretty sturdy--about as sturdy as the G25, but I don't know about how it handles "spillage." I will say this, it is quieter than the G25 when you turn the wheel, but the motor in the Fanatec is noisy--not bad, but definitely noticeable. It has a sort of high-pitched whine to it once it gets warmed up, and makes noises when you're not even turning the wheel. And it gets about as warm to the touch as the G25 too, maybe even a smidge cooler than the G25. Also, occasionally on straightaways, if you loosen your grip slightly, the wheel starts jerking back and forth like the G25 does with the F2007 in GT5P. That gets a little annoying. I'm not going to like that happening in races, but I guess I'll get used to it.

 

[Synwraith]

Carl, are you starting to feel that once you are as comfortable with the Fanatec as you are with the G25, it is actually overall going to be...

1) The more enjoyable wheel to use
2) The faster wheel to use, more effect on laptimes?

Or do you think your recent improvement to near-enough Division 1 pace is just the continuing evolution of your skills and speed? I ask because I felt a little hasty thinking your recent upturn in speed is down to the new machinery, I am looking all over the laptime boards and you are just a smidgen ahead in the Amuse S2k at 800PP on GTDB, just a smidgen behind at Lotus Evora TT Suz East and again a smidgen ahead in WRS 800PP Suzuka in the Vette. Could it just be that we are both still getting quicker inch by inch regardless of the wheel? We still seem pretty evenly matched, although I was beginning to think you are gaining a slight edge now.

All the best
Maz

 

[Rash-182]

I´m considering buyng G25 but the only thing i dont like about it is the shifter. You guys were talking about it on the first page but can you explain one more time just for me? Like how "stiff" it really is? Is it that hard to work with? I had a chance only to touch the G25 shifter in the shop and i really didn´t liked how easily it was moving. You know for me the shifter is really important because i belive that when you play using shifter and clutch it can be a difference of 0.1 - 0.2 (judging from top TT replays)