G25 to Fanatec

[cpp214]

Carl, are you starting to feel that once you are as comfortable with the Fanatec as you are with the G25, it is actually overall going to be...

1) The more enjoyable wheel to use
2) The faster wheel to use, more effect on laptimes?

Or do you think your recent improvement to near-enough Division 1 pace is just the continuing evolution of your skills and speed? I ask because I felt a little hasty thinking your recent upturn in speed is down to the new machinery, I am looking all over the laptime boards and you are just a smidgen ahead in the Amuse S2k at 800PP on GTDB, just a smidgen behind at Lotus Evora TT Suz East and again a smidgen ahead in WRS 800PP Suzuka in the Vette. Could it just be that we are both still getting quicker inch by inch regardless of the wheel? We still seem pretty evenly matched, although I was beginning to think you are gaining a slight edge now.

All the best
Maz

Hi Maz 👍

To answer your questions: 1) I have thought about this since getting the wheel and comparing it to the G25. At the moment, I don't think it is a more enjoyable wheel to use than the G25. But, my definition of enjoyable is obviously going to be different than someone else's. Enjoyable to me is going as fast as possible and being absolutely confident that you know what the wheel is going to do and consequently how hard you can push the car. With the G25, after approximately 4.5 to 5 months of using it, I had gotten to a point of extreme confidence and comfort with that wheel, and I haven't reached it yet with the Fanatec.

I'm 100% certain my recent improvements in pace were accomplished almost entirely with the G25. This week's WRS and the S2000 free run lap were the only laptimes I've set with the Fanatec. I'm pretty sure I could've set the same times with the G25, but I'm not sure. I think my times are pretty even so far, but I don't feel like I'm going as fast as I did with the G25. It feels like I'm literally stopping for a cup of coffee and a cigarette now at the Suzuka hairpin I guess that's down to the bigger wheel diameter, it feels like you have to turn the wheel so much more to get through that corner.

2) I've really been lazy with the Fanatec so far, in that I have only tested it on Suzuka and mainly in the 800 PP cars. I did go back to a TT I had done recently--the Corvette Z06 on S2's at Suzuka--and after about 1.5 hours I managed to trim a little over .1 off my previous G25 laptime. It took me about 30 minutes just to re-learn my braking point for Turn 1 with the Fanatec wheel/pedals. This slight improvement was so miniscule that I don't think it had much to do with the Fanatec, but rather the extra 1.5 hours I spent at it. I'm pretty sure if I had spent another 1.5 hours at it in the G25, I would have taken off the same amount of time.

I've now had the GT3RS a week, and I am really ambivalent about whether or not it has or will improve my laptimes--which is the main reason I got it.
Also, the "experience" is not any better than the one provided by the G25. Basically, I'm not "blown away" by the Fanatec and Clubsport pedals. Not like I thought I would be. Every car, track and setup will have to be re-learned with this wheel That's something I didn't take into account when I ordered it. Also, there are--potentially--30 different FFB settings you can choose with the Fanatec (1-10 in game, 33%, 66% or 100% for each of those settings on the wheel) and while this seems good at first glance, what it has done for me is just make things more complicated. I knew what FFB at 5--10 felt like on the G25 and I was comfortable with any of those settings. However, with the Fanatec, I have run FFB anywhere from 2 to 10 in game and from 66% to 100% on the wheel, and it's hard to say definitively which one is better.

I guess all of this sounds like a negative review on my part for the Fanatec. I hope it doesn't come across that way. The Fanatec does have a lot of things going for it, and based on the impartial results of my laptimes, it is at least on par with the G25 in terms of performance so far. But as I said earlier, I just don't yet have the confidence with it that I did with the G25. Maybe in another few weeks I will feel differently.

I´m considering buyng G25 but the only thing i dont like about it is the shifter. You guys were talking about it on the first page but can you explain one more time just for me? Like how "stiff" it really is? Is it that hard to work with? I had a chance only to touch the G25 shifter in the shop and i really didn´t liked how easily it was moving. You know for me the shifter is really important because i belive that when you play using shifter and clutch it can be a difference of 0.1 - 0.2 (judging from top TT replays)

Really, the G25 shifter is not that bad. It is pretty flimsy, but you will get used to it. Using the clutch in GT5P is very realistic. You can't flatshift.
You can't have any throttle input applied while trying to use the clutch or it will shift into neutral and cost you an enormous chunk of time.

 

[IsmokeGT]

I belive that when you play using shifter and clutch it can be a difference of 0.1 - 0.2 (judging from top TT replays)

I would say that is a fair guess, the car/track combo will play a big part also. It is frustrating taking a turn perfectly and being ahead of the P1 ghost, then upon up shift he pulls ahead.

The big question- What wheel is Carl going to use when GT5 comes out?

 

[ploopsy]

Now we need a GT3RS vs G27 review.

 

[Synwraith]

Thanks for the feedback Carl, extremely valuable and well expressed as always

All the best
Maz

 

[Paul Usul]

I was wondering, since some of you guys own both, if it's possible to connect the Fanatec shifter to the G25 wheel? I'm getting fed up with the G25 shifter and I'm looking for a replacement. Thanks.

 

[cpp214]

I was wondering, since some of you guys own both, if it's possible to connect the Fanatec shifter to the G25 wheel? I'm getting fed up with the G25 shifter and I'm looking for a replacement. Thanks.

Unfortunately, I don't think it's possible to use the Fanatec shifters with the G25 wheel. But, having used both, i can tell you that I prefer the "floppy" feel of the G25 shifters to the extremely rigid resistance of the Fanatec shifters. In order to be able to use the Fanatec shifters effectively, you really have to put a lot of thought into how you're going to mount them. The force required to shift puts a tremendous amount of stress on even the most rigid mounting solution. It's really a big headache and I found it wasn't worth it. For this reason, along with several others, I sold my GT3RS wheel, Clubsport pedals and shifters.

If you're using your wheel on the PC, it's pretty expensive, but the Lightning SST shifter would be a much better solution. Although at $199, it costs as much or more than most wheels.

If you look in the Steering Wheels and Cockpits section here at the forum, there are some threads that describe how to improve the feel of the G25 shifter. That would probably be your best bet. The G27 shifter is better than the G25, but not dramatically better. It's not worth switching to a G27 if you already have a G25. Hope that helps.

 

[LinPark]

Unfortunately, I don't think it's possible to use the Fanatec shifters with the G25 wheel. But, having used both, i can tell you that I prefer the "floppy" feel of the G25 shifters to the extremely rigid resistance of the Fanatec shifters. In order to be able to use the Fanatec shifters effectively, you really have to put a lot of thought into how you're going to mount them. The force required to shift puts a tremendous amount of stress on even the most rigid mounting solution. It's really a big headache and I found it wasn't worth it. For this reason, along with several others, I sold my GT3RS wheel, Clubsport pedals and shifters.

If you're using your wheel on the PC, it's pretty expensive, but the Lightning SST shifter would be a much better solution. Although at $199, it costs as much or more than most wheels.

If you look in the Steering Wheels and Cockpits section here at the forum, there are some threads that describe how to improve the feel of the G25 shifter. That would probably be your best bet. The G27 shifter is better than the G25, but not dramatically better. It's not worth switching to a G27 if you already have a G25. Hope that helps.

YOU SOLD THE FANATEC????? Ok, now I know one of the reasons (the shifter) but what were the others? I was considering getting this for X-Mas but now I'm not so sure.

 

[The Outlaw]

Fanatec GT3RS? Well I TRIED to break mine today, but didn't have much success in my half azzed attempt to rip the wheel off and throw it RAWRRR!!! I Just ended up tweaking my rig and ripping the upper case off the bottom half somehow and thought that it was RIP at that point But no, the damn thing still works surprisingly

Reason for this irrational action?: Well the thing has been giving me more and more issues and greif of late and I decided to take it out on exactly what was beggining to make my blood boil Today it must have went dead about 15-20 times throughout my attempts to race and put in laps in free run. Then I also had the throttle stick about 20 times which forced me to unplug the pedal cable to get the throttle to return to 0% so I wouldn't miss my marks around Fuji and run into the back of people. Then I also had issues with the brake sticking which is something I hadn't experienced until today. Basically all of it was enough to drive me nuts after all of the other crap I was experiencing with the online racing in GT5 (connections issues, freezing, punters, starting out back when the fastest guys are at the front, etc.)

So my point is - I suggest you stick with the G25 and spend your money elsewhere for Christmas 👍 I'm thinking about picking up a G27, but am a bit up in the air because I've gotten so accustomed to using the paddles with the GT3RS. But I'll probably still end up with a G27 regardless and just force myself to learn. because this Fanatec wheel is like a exotic car that you try to use as a daily driver...yea it's great when it runs, but hell, there's always some type of problem and issue with the damn thing

Edit: Oh and I forgot to mention a few of the buttons on the wheel have been working intermittently as well I also just fired up Prologue just a few minutes ago and it seems like the ffb of the Fanatec wheel is now a bit screwy after I tried to pull a hulk on it, so I guess I'll be moving on to a G27 now.

 

[jasonb1985]

I went from a Fanatec Turbo (PS3/PC) to a G27. I had nothing but trouble with the Fanatec. I also, pretty much instantly, got better lap times in GT5p with the G27. After a couple hours of adjusting from one wheel to the next I was pulling quicker lap times.

I suggest to stay away from Fanatec and just grab a G25 or a G27.

 

[cpp214]

YOU SOLD THE FANATEC????? Ok, now I know one of the reasons (the shifter) but what were the others? I was considering getting this for X-Mas but now I'm not so sure.

Hey Lin,

Yeah, I sold the Fanatec
The shifter was one of the reasons. Not a big one though, as I just used the paddle shifters in Prologue anyway. I had recently been experiencing many of the same issues Brock mentioned above. On certain straightaways--and occasionally even in corners--the Fanatec would suddenly lose calibration and jerk to one side or the other. It happened frequently enough that it was a major concern for online racing.

In particular, it happened almost every race I ever ran at Suzuka Specifically, it would always occur at 130R--almost precisely at the turn-in point for the corner and it would also happen on the main straight too. The wheel would go off-center by about 5 degrees or maybe a little more, and would remain slightly off-center for a few more corners until it would magically regain it's centering/calibration.

Also, within the last few weeks, I began having the same problems Timeattack detailed with the pedal-sticking and sudden loss of FFB.
It got really bad during the last WRS I competed in (the 512 BB @ Suzuka).

It never happened while I was driving, but when I would restart a lap, or exit the track to make tuning changes, or just pause the game to go smoke or get something to drink, the wheel and pedals would just die on me. I would have to unplug the wheel from its USB port on the PS3 and then plug it back in to get it to work again. Or, conversely, the pedals would stick--either brake, throttle or sometimes both--and I would have about 10% constant throttle or brake. I would then have to unplug the pedals and plug them back in, sometimes numerous times to get them to work.

And I also started having the wheel buttons go crazy on me. The X and O buttons in particular seemed to have switched with each other on a few occasions. Rebooting the PS3 would sometimes solve these issues, and sometimes it wouldn't. I tried troubleshooting by connecting the wheel and pedals to my PC. Everything worked fine there. In fact, I never had any of these issues in any PC game.

Basically, I just got fed up with all of these issues and decided I would just go back to a G25 or G27. I got the G27 because at the time (around the first week of October) it was the same price as the G25 I figured that I should just go ahead and get the G27 in that case. I knew that the paddle shifters did not yet work in Prologue, but I wasn't too bothered by it because I assumed that they would soon come out with a driver update or Polyphony would patch it. Obviously, I was wrong in that assumption and the paddle shifters still don't work in Prologue.

I guess Polyphony can't be bothered to release a little patch so the shifters will work--and I imagine that's all it would take. It doesn't seem like it would be a big deal, but apparently they aren't going to do anything more with Prologue--even though it has easily grossed over $150 Million in sales

Also, I never quite felt that I was faster with the GT3RS, and that was the whole point in getting it, at least for me. Since getting the G27, I've set over 10 #1 Time Trial rankings at either Suzuka or Suzuka East, so I'm pretty confident in saying that I'm better with Logitech wheels than I ever was with the Fanatec. Like Timeattack said, when it works, the GT3RS is very good. But I, like him, just got fed up with the little bugs and glitches and decided to go back to Logitech.

You can do what you want Lin, but if I were you, I would probably stick with Logitech. If you already have a G25, there's not much reason to upgrade to a G27 right now. I think the FFB in the G27 is noticeably stronger than the G25--which is not necessarily a good thing. I am running at 1 to get the same feel I had with the G25 at 5 FFB. Also, there seems to be a smaller, less-noticeable dead-zone in the G27.

The 6 speed shifter has been improved as well. It's not quite as floppy and has a more positive feel to the shifts. But I don't like using it for TT's or online racing in Prologue and I have to without the paddle shifters working I don't like taking my hands off the wheel. I think it can only detract from your speed and consistency when you have to do that. I also don't want to wear the shifter out through constant use.

So I ordered a used DFGT off eBay and should have it tomorrow. I got it for $58 + free shipping. I'm going to use it for online racing in Prologue--probably for TT's as well. That way I can try to keep from wearing out the G27 shifter prematurely. I'll still use the G27 for PC games where the paddle shifters work in every game I have--rFactor, GTR, GTR Evo, iRacing, you name it. Come on Kaz! Release that small patch so the G27 paddle shifters will work in Prologue!

Hope all that explains why I unloaded the Fanatec Lin.

 

[Timppaq]

Hoping to hear experiences with the DFGT once you get it 👍

 

[cpp214]

Hoping to hear experiences with the DFGT once you get it 👍

Hey Timo 👍

Well, I've actually had a DFGT before, and it's a really great wheel in my opinion. As most people point out, it's one major "weakness" is the pedals. They are plastic and don't feel nearly as solid as the G25/G27 or Fanatec pedals. But, once you get used to them, they work just fine 👍

As you probably already know, many great drivers in Prologue--holl01, Mad94, Spyrrari, Mr. P and others--use the DFGT. The FFB in the DFGT is a little smoother than the G25 I think. It is a little weaker in terms of FFB than the G25, but that's not a bad thing. After reading some of your comments on FFB settings, as well as comments by Maz and Stotty, I eventually came to see the benefits of lower FFB settings. It really does allow for smoother, more precise inputs, and I can no longer imagine how I ran FFB at maximum on the G25. I'm anxious to get to try the DFGT once more, now that I am accustomed to lower FFB settings. I have a feeling it will really excel at those.

One of the advantages of the Logitech pedals--DFGT and G25--is that it's easier to trail brake with them than it was with the Clubsport pedals. I can't remember if I mentioned it earlier in this thread or not, but it took a lot of tinkering, practice and trial and error to get used to the Clubsport brake pedal. And it was never as good as the Logitech's with trail braking--which is a far more valuable technique than threshold braking in GT5P in my opinion. Especially at Suzuka--the hairpin, Degner 2, Spoon etc.

I found a seller on eBay that supplies refrubished DFGT's for very reasonable prices. They claim that the wheels were return items and that they have been cleaned and inspected by Logitech and are in complete working order. They have a 30 day guarantee with them as well. And for the price of $58 U.S. with free shipping, you'd be hard-pressed to find a better value in racing wheels I think.

I first got the G25 around the 1st of April this year. It was my first time using a wheel since playing the GT series, beginning with GT2. I got it online from Wal-Mart for $240 including shipping. I later got curious about the DFGT and got one at a local GameStop for $98 after a couple of game trade-in credits. I later sold the DFGT for $60 on eBay, and sold the G25 for $198 on eBay as well. I purchased the GT3RS/Clubsport package with shifters for $369, and later sold that package for $288 (+$12 shipping on eBay). I now have the G27 which I paid $300 for at Best Buy, and have a DFGT on the way for $58, which I will eventually re-sell once/if the G27 shifters ever work in Prologue, or when GT5 comes out, whichever happens first.

Looking at all those numbers makes my head hurt a little
But I think that after all those transactions, factoring in my initial $240 investment in the G25, I've "only lost" approximately $250--using my fuzzy math.
So in essence, that's what it's cost me to be able use all these different wheels over the past seven + months.

After all those experiences, the most important thing I can tell anyone is that if you have at least a DFGT, you will be fine. As different as all of those wheels are, the one thing they share in common is laptimes. I ran basically the same laptimes with all those wheels. I think that personally, I am fractionally quicker with the Logitech wheels in time trials. But that's a very hard thing to quantify. The online time trials I mentioned in the previous post were done with the G27, but I imagine if I had tried the same trials with the Fanatec wheel, the times would have been pretty close.

To be honest I really feel like an idiot sitting here pretty much right where I started--with a Logitech wheel in front of me, and another on the way
But, I know a lot of people here at the forum have wheels, are thinking about getting a wheel, or are thinking about switching wheels, so maybe my experience will be helpful to someone, and hopefully save them a lot of headaches

I hope the fact that I've sold my Fanatec doesn't seem like an indictment against their wheels. When they work in Prologue they're excellent. And they are really great on the PC. The Clubsport pedals are really good as well. It's just that, no matter how much I enjoy driving PC sims for a change of pace, I inevitably come back to GT5 Prologue--as we all do, and I need a wheel that works flawlessly with that game. And the GT3RS is primarily a PC wheel that is also compatible with some PS3 games--Prologue being one of them. I just felt it was time that I went back to Logitech wheels for their reliability, and plug-and-play ability.

As I have said before, I think if Fanatec ever releases this Carrera Wheel:


at close to the $129 price it is quoted at in the video, it would absolutely be worth trying 👍 As for the recently-released Turbo S wheel, I obviously can't speak to it's performance. I imagine if you have an XBOX 360, that would be the way to go, especially for Forza 3. In hindsight, I guess I wish I would have had the patience to wait for it, and had tried it instead of the GT3RS. I didn't want to wait an extra 2 months to try it though. And I'm not going to buy a 360 just to play Forza 3--no matter how badly I would like to try it. That's really the only game I would want to play on that console. And I already bought one console (PS3) 2 years ago, in order to play one game (GT5), so I learned my lesson there

 

[rkk01]

Useful thread, although my thoughts on wheel / pedal budgets are more in line with the DFGT... Been thinking of buying a wheel, but no idea what to get. DFGT currently about £80 on Amazon, G25 about £130, so could be tempted by either.

I've only just moved from six axis to DS3 controllers!!! Only recently cleared the S level and bought the F2007. I initially bought the PS3 for GT5 - like most folks, GT5P was my temporary fix, but I drifted off to a few other FPS type games. GT5 hype over the summer inspired me to get GT5P out.

Any thoughts to guide the more recreational player....??

 

[jpro01]

off topic:
use this promo code: GAMING2009
at logitech.com and you will get 20% of any gaming device.
for an example G27 $239.99 with this promo.

P.S.
guys let me know if i need to make a new thread for this deal.

 

[The Outlaw]

off topic:
use this promo code: GAMING2009
at logitech.com and you will get 20% of any gaming device.
for an example G27 $239.99 with this promo.

P.S.
guys let me know if i need to make a new thread for this deal.

Wow that's a great price! Thanks for the heads up jpro 👍

Too bad I have so many bills to pay atm, otherwise I would swoop one up

 

[LinPark]

Thanks for the details Carl - didn't mean to put you through memory lane remorse - I'm probably going to stick with my G25 then. I haven't used it in about 2 weeks - I bought it refurbished on eBay well over a year ago and have used it ALOT. Been smelling strange things from behind the wheel lately and it seems louder to me than it originally was. Was going to look into a G27 but if I can't use the paddles then I'd be pretty much screwed.

Thanks again!

 

[cpp214]

Useful thread, although my thoughts on wheel / pedal budgets are more in line with the DFGT... Been thinking of buying a wheel, but no idea what to get. DFGT currently about £80 on Amazon, G25 about £130, so could be tempted by either.

I've only just moved from six axis to DS3 controllers!!! Only recently cleared the S level and bought the F2007. I initially bought the PS3 for GT5 - like most folks, GT5P was my temporary fix, but I drifted off to a few other FPS type games. GT5 hype over the summer inspired me to get GT5P out.

Any thoughts to guide the more recreational player....??

Well, my advice in your situation would be to scour the U.K./EU eBay or any similar sites and see if you can find a refurbished DFGT like the one I was able to find--preferably with something like a 30 day warranty from the seller if possible. I even think that it's possible Logitech would even cover the wheel should something happen to go wrong. From what I've seen and read, they seem to have outstanding customer support. If something ever went wrong, you could give them a call and see if they would work with you. I know that's what I will do if I ever have problems with mine. All they can do is say "no" This is if you don't mind the thought of buying a lightly-used/returned item. I would completely understand if your not comfortable at the thought of that. But, if you could do it, it would be a good, cheap way to introduce yourself to FFB wheels. If you really like the DFGT, you might eventually decide you want to upgrade to the G25 or G27. In which case, you could just re-sell that lightly used DFGT and use the money toward one of those other wheels 👍

off topic:
use this promo code: GAMING2009
at logitech.com and you will get 20% of any gaming device.
for an example G27 $239.99 with this promo.

P.S.
guys let me know if i need to make a new thread for this deal.

Thanks for that info jpro 👍 that's a really good deal.
As far as I'm concerned, you don't need to make a new thread for this deal.
You can post great deals like that in any thread as far as I'm concerned Although you may want to also post it in the Steering Wheel section for people that might be interested.

 

[Paul Usul]

Unfortunately, I don't think it's possible to use the Fanatec shifters with the G25 wheel. But, having used both, i can tell you that I prefer the "floppy" feel of the G25 shifters to the extremely rigid resistance of the Fanatec shifters. In order to be able to use the Fanatec shifters effectively, you really have to put a lot of thought into how you're going to mount them. The force required to shift puts a tremendous amount of stress on even the most rigid mounting solution. It's really a big headache and I found it wasn't worth it. For this reason, along with several others, I sold my GT3RS wheel, Clubsport pedals and shifters.

If you're using your wheel on the PC, it's pretty expensive, but the Lightning SST shifter would be a much better solution. Although at $199, it costs as much or more than most wheels.

If you look in the Steering Wheels and Cockpits section here at the forum, there are some threads that describe how to improve the feel of the G25 shifter. That would probably be your best bet. The G27 shifter is better than the G25, but not dramatically better. It's not worth switching to a G27 if you already have a G25. Hope that helps.

Yep this helps in my decision on the Fanatec. I'm affraid I need to race without the H-shift and use seq because the thing keeps going in and out gears in 2nd and 4th. I'll check the forum on any tips & tricks. Maybe I can find a cure.... If that doesn't work it's please, please pretty please @ my wife. And hope she hasn't already bought my christmas present . Tnx for your sharing your experience

 

[rkk01]

Thanks for the information.

Out of interest, what do all the wheel users use to mount wheels / pedals?? Our PS3 is very much part of our lounge set-up, so using the pads works well with sofa based gaming!!

I'm not sure that the wife / family would be very supportive of a desk type set-up in the middle of the lounge. Fixing the wheel to the coffee table would be an option, but I'm not sure if there would be enough height clearance for the pedals to go underneath, and still be operable

 

[skazz]

Thanks for the information.

Out of interest, what do all the wheel users use to mount wheels / pedals?? Our PS3 is very much part of our lounge set-up, so using the pads works well with sofa based gaming!!

I'm not sure that the wife / family would be very supportive of a desk type set-up in the middle of the lounge. Fixing the wheel to the coffee table would be an option, but I'm not sure if there would be enough height clearance for the pedals to go underneath, and still be operable

Read up on the Fanatec Rennsport wheelstand or the Wheelstand Pro. Both are reasonably cost-effective and fold up quite small, useable when sitting on the sofa or in a chair (although not too high for the WSP, it has limited height).

I was "allowed" to get a Fanatec Rennsport for use with the HDTV in the living room, and it's light enough to lug around (even up the stairs) with the wheel attached should you need to, although I tend to just leave it in the corner of the living room when it's not in use. [currently in use with DFGT]