G27 vs GT2 vs T500RS

  • Thread starter ah-bull
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latest update:-

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※ did several laps on GT5 Nurburgring 24h Time Trial last night
※ I used RE Amemiya AsparaDrink RX7, stage engine 3 tune-up, stock turbo, 399hp, 1% delimiter applied to meet 394hp, 1100kg
※ (a) I did 8:39.4 using G27 + perfect pedal (on 22.Jun)
※ (b) I did 8:48 using fanatec 911 GT2 + perfect pedal (on 24.Jun)
※ (c) using fanatec 911 GT2 + CSP. I did 1-2 seconds faster than that of (a) in mid of the track, but I got crashed and quited (on 23.Jun). And the CSP was slipped off the cockpit due to only one screw used for hard mount. I will fix it tonight.

I don't know why I did slower lap time in the combo of GT2 + perfect pedal.

Regarding your time being slower using 911 GT2 than G27. There are other variables (many) but my take is if you're finding the FFB feels stronger (and therefore better in my opinion) on the Fanatec, then it could be the reason why your time's slower. Stronger FFB means that it take more effort from you to steer the car and that in turn means you will be slower especially on a long track like the full Nurburgring course.

A lot of people have been complaining that after moving from DFGT/G25/G27 to Thrustmaster T500RS, they're finding that their lap times have been slower. Like Fanatec, the T500RS has a bigger motor and better (and stronger) FFB than any un-"modded" Logitech wheels.

Give it some time for your body to adjust to the stronger FFB. Lift some weight but I implore you from turning the FFB down. Keep it high and enjoy the effect.
 
Regarding your time being slower using 911 GT2 than G27. There are other variables (many) but my take is if you're finding the FFB feels stronger (and therefore better in my opinion) on the Fanatec, then it could be the reason why your time's slower. Stronger FFB means that it take more effort from you to steer the car and that in turn means you will be slower especially on a long track like the full Nurburgring course.

A lot of people have been complaining that after moving from DFGT/G25/G27 to Thrustmaster T500RS, they're finding that their lap times have been slower. Like Fanatec, the T500RS has a bigger motor and better (and stronger) FFB than any un-"modded" Logitech wheels.

Give it some time for your body to adjust to the stronger FFB. Lift some weight but I implore you from turning the FFB down. Keep it high and enjoy the effect.


Thank you very much for your advices.

I guess that I need some more time for the wheel diameter difference (30cm vs 27cm). The thickness of the wheel also affect my feeling during cornering.

update : I will pick CSP Tuning kit tonight from my friend's office. Once CSP brake is tuned with short travel and more stiffness, I will give an try on GT2 + CSP for Seasonal Event - Civic Competition.

I used a Civic Type R '98 (Standard Car), 188hp, 1050kg, comfort soft for Deep Forest (180hp) & Special Stage Route 5 Clubman (188hp). These competition is as hard as Fiat 500 @ Trial Mountian using a low pp car. great fun !!!

p/s : Afer remapping the buttons, "rear view" is no longer pressed accidentally. Thanks for 12thgear's advice!
 
AhBull, here is my personal setup for Fanatec GT2 wheel for GT5. Try it for yourself and report your opinion if you want.

I had many problems with going from G25 (in my case) to GT2, because overall feel of the force feedback was just not quite right. I enjoyed the great build quality and overall feel, but something regarding force feedback effect was just non-defined. I was constantly fighting with understeer and damping and wheel was always having some kind of *heavy* feel. Another problem was lack of fast-countersteer (where G25 excels) and unresponsive wieight-shift.

I tried literally every setup I could find on the internet but none of them was matching what I wanted from the GT2. And then I stumbled on solution by chance, with latest introduction of prizes for Drift races in Seasonal Events where I finally used Drift mode setting to get rid of everything that was bothering me.

Key to achieve maximum performance of Fanatec GT2 (and not just GT2, my friends are also having Fanatecs and after this setup they are using it on their PWTS wheels too) is usage of maximum setting of Drift mode and in-game calibration of steering degree (called Sensitivity on function display).

My settings are following (in game options FF is set to 7):

Sensitivity (SEn): OFF (when on "OFF" it actually uses game settings for steering degrees > I use 900 on S_2 setting for X360/Forza Motorsport)
Force feedback strength (FF): 90 (100 makes belt/motor squeetch which annoys me)
Vibration strength (Sho): 30
Drift mode (dri): 5 >>> key setting
ABS: 25 (I like to feel the vibration early and use it to my advantage - on pedals I have potentiometer set to 80%)
Linearity (Lin): 0
Deadzone (dEA): 0
Spring: 0
Damper: 0

Drift setting is the key of GT2 performance IMO. At this point I am running my GT2 on Drift 005 maximum setting. Drift somehow lets the wheel to turn and eliminates the "weight" I had problems with. Overall force feedback effect is now more pronounced and I managed to replicate all G25 performance after some time. Also, countersteer while turning (when car is actually self-countersteering thanx to tire-thread simulation) is finally here, together with actual feel of steer over rumblestrips.

To conclude, in my personal feeling, key to max out the GT2 is maxxing out the Drift setting. Google also told me that Thomas introduced Drift mode in 2009 as some kind of reducer of the overal resistance of the wheel. Technically, Drift mode reduces the basic dampeing of the wheel. It allows faster, precise and more accurate steering and finally allows me to replicate my G25 lap times and tire-wear progress which was another problem I combated with on GT2 (on tire-wear-sensitive-cars <Lexus Racing Concept for instance> GT2 was somehow adding a more oversteer on the front wheel and was *eating* tires much faster than G25. Now, with Drift setting on 5 I can finally control steering input 100% and control my tire-wear).

With settings I noted above, Fanatec GT2 has finally become my ultimate wheel and totally replaced G25. I use the same settings for Forza, with exception of Sensitivity *900* (to have full 900 degree steering) and I also have much better and more accurate feel of driving.

Also notice this one, since I see you're very fond of hardware > Japanese factory Frex produces a beautiful sequental shifter called Shifter+. It is 100% compatible with GT2 wheel (and all PS3/X360 games I've tried so far), all you need is to solder open-wires to some PS/2 port and you're ready to go.

http://frex.xsrv.jp/gpshop/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=1_23&products_id=60

Shifter itself is the most rigid piece of machinery I ever owned, it is practically indestructible and it improves the actual immersion of driving for me to another level > you can molest it as much as you like, as you would in some touring car. It costs somewhere around 100 euro, and I presume that shipping costs to HK would be symbolic. Here is the picture of it when I initially bought it, notice I mounted it on the left side since I took photo before disassembling Fanatec shifter mounted on right.

Have fun, cheers 👍

7MFmH.jpg
 
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Dear Amar212,

Thank you very much for your advices.

i was just back to office from construction site. i am still reading your advices and comments.

I did two Seasonal Event - Civic Competitions (Deep Forest & SSR 5 Clubman) using GT2 + perfect pedal (g27) last night. I felt that I needed to apply earlier brake than using G27.


I selected a Civic Type-R '98. I rebuild the engine and chassis. I just added clutch, flywheel, fully customizable trans, fully customizable suspension kit on it. Civic '98 still has 188hp.

I used around 2hr to get GOLD at SSR5 Clubman. The forcefeedback from GT2 is quite different from that of G27. Now, I get familiar with GT2. I still wait for CSP tuning kit for the full fanatec setup test.

I will do a long testing from 1.Jul - 3.Jul (1.Jul is Hong Kong Holiday). Hopeful, I can write a short report early next week.
 
Hi amar212,

Your initial experience on GT2 is exactly what I feel at this moment. Your advices are very helpful. I will try the drift mode tonight and give you a reply asap.

FrexGP shift+ is my next target. One of my friend who bought FrexGP Hshift Type-G, will order Frex GP clutch+. I will ask for his help for ordering together.

Once again, thank you very much.
 
If the Frex HShift Type G works with the Fanatec wheels it would be great.

Would not bat an eyelid to buy them. :)

To Ah-Bull, keep up the good work. I have a GT3RSV2 and CSP, at the same time also looking at getting T500RS.

I will be most interested to read about your report regarding T500RS pedals and CSP pedals if you have time to write about it.

By the way, I am from Singapore. How much is T500RS selling in HKD?
 
Yeah I never really seen the G25/G27 get a fair shake against Fanatec & Thrustmaster. A fully modded G25/G27 vs T500RS vs GT2/CSP would be ideal 👍

However, I will settle for G27 + Perfect Pedal comparison. Have you had enough time to pick a preference yet?

Let's say you about to do an important online race. Would you still prefer the G27 + Perfect Pedal? I think a lot of us would like to get your personal opinion 👍

And perhaps in a few weeks your stance might change.

----

And oh yes I am a bit envious. Just a T500rs here. Thinking of later trying either the Perfect Pedal (if they make the port to t500rs) or CSP a bit later. for now, I need to focus on mastering how to drive a fast car altogether though haha
 
Hi Pdreams,

T500RS selling price is HK$4699.00 (around US$602) with 6 car download card and a Beans GT5 T-Shirt.


Hi sandboxgod,

I used T500RS for Nurburgring 4hr endurance race. T500RS gives you lots of road / track details in Nurburgring. You could feel how bumpy the Nur is.

You could feel the force feedback differences when running on sand or grass.

Unfortunately, T500RS brake pedal does not have load cell. disappointed !


I joined Nurburgring 8-lap online lounge tonight twice. I found out that G27 gas pedal has less resolution when connected to GT2.

I tried GT2 with CSP on last Thu night. CSP gas pedal has better response/resolution than that of G27 (connected to GT2).

I received CSP tuning kit tonight and will give another try on CSP tomorrow night.

amar212 stated that the force feedback feelings are different between G27 and GT2. I could feel that tonight at Nurburgring 24hr. I could not get the past feeling (G27) from GT2 and got lost on some mid speed corners.

I tried GT2 drift mode 5... it should be better than default. I need some more practices.

If force feedback is your cup of tea, T500RS should suit you.
 
Regarding your time being slower using 911 GT2 than G27. There are other variables (many) but my take is if you're finding the FFB feels stronger (and therefore better in my opinion) on the Fanatec, then it could be the reason why your time's slower. Stronger FFB means that it take more effort from you to steer the car and that in turn means you will be slower especially on a long track like the full Nurburgring course.

A lot of people have been complaining that after moving from DFGT/G25/G27 to Thrustmaster T500RS, they're finding that their lap times have been slower. Like Fanatec, the T500RS has a bigger motor and better (and stronger) FFB than any un-"modded" Logitech wheels.

Give it some time for your body to adjust to the stronger FFB. Lift some weight but I implore you from turning the FFB down. Keep it high and enjoy the effect.

So you gain muscle from the Fanatec?
 
Regarding your time being slower using 911 GT2 than G27. There are other variables (many) but my take is if you're finding the FFB feels stronger (and therefore better in my opinion) on the Fanatec, then it could be the reason why your time's slower. Stronger FFB means that it take more effort from you to steer the car and that in turn means you will be slower especially on a long track like the full Nurburgring course.

A lot of people have been complaining that after moving from DFGT/G25/G27 to Thrustmaster T500RS, they're finding that their lap times have been slower. Like Fanatec, the T500RS has a bigger motor and better (and stronger) FFB than any un-"modded" Logitech wheels.

Give it some time for your body to adjust to the stronger FFB. Lift some weight but I implore you from turning the FFB down. Keep it high and enjoy the effect.
Fanatec Gt2/Gt3 are heavier wheels as well as the ffb belt itself produces a little more drag than G27 helical gears especially when spinning the wheel very fast. Also an advantage for me, G27 has a smaller wheel which I can quickly turn 540 degrees keeping one hand on the wheel.

You are right as in some game ffb can actually slow you down. A clear example of this is NTG 2011.
I find turning down the ffb on my Fanatec wheel also seem make the ffb to spin the wheel slower. (it's slows the ffb motor down) For me G27 ffb at full strength is just right that I don't have to turn it down so I get the full speed and effect from it's motors.

P.S Your post I think brings up the limits of a ffb wheel. IRL you have forces coming from both sides of the wheel while only one side at a time with ffb wheels. This is why ffb wheels tire my arms out more than driving a real car. IRL power steering helps me to turn the wheel while ffb motors pulls against me.
 
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P.S Your post I think brings up the limits of a ffb wheel. IRL you have forces coming from both sides of the wheel while only one side at a time with ffb wheels. This is why ffb wheels tire my arms out more than driving a real car. IRL power steering helps me to turn the wheel while ffb motors pulls against me.

Exactly. Of course, if you're lucky enough to run motion seat like d-box or simconmotion with PC sims, you'll be able to lower the FFB of the wheel and still able to feel both lateral and longitudinal "g"forces. In GT5 for example, you can feel that g forces are encoded into the wheel's FFB. I'm sure if PD were to implement an option for motion seats (like they did in a special version of GT4), it would be just incredible.


So you gain muscle from the Fanatec?

Any little motion that's done continuously will help develop muscle so that your body can adjust to the task. One of the attachment race drivers use (to their weight machine) is a steering wheel. It helps to build arm, shoulder and especially neck muscles. Here's pic of what Audi driver Benoit Treluyer (this year's Le Mans winner and also Nissan Super GT driver) use in his home (that's his kid, btw):

DSC092014-750x562.jpg
 
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update :

current setup : fanatec GT2 + g27 pedal (with perfect pedal)

findings :

&#8251;&#12288;could not apply ~10-50% throttle smoothly and increase in speed gradually
&#8251;&#12288;will set up CSP tonight asap so as to continue the testing.
&#8251;&#12288;can only archieve 98-99% throttle. not 100%
 
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Oh come on, clearly you are envious as someone said before.
Clearly ah-bull is being a community person and sharing his thoughts on the 3 wheels and good on him for it, just cause he has posted a great collection don't need to try shoot him down.

Ah-bull nice collection and look forward to reading all you have to say about the wheels, currently have a G25 on a Playseat evo with rumble packs mounted(same a butt kicker) I will be looking at an upgrade in the near future so this thread and many others is much help.

??? why would i be envious. I am very happy with my t500 mounted on my gamepod :P

pretty much all who have tried all the wheels seem to be unanimous and state the T500 is better than G27 or GT2/3. this topic has been covered in depth for the last 6 months thourougly and this thread brings nothing additional.
 
??? why would i be envious. I am very happy with my t500 mounted on my gamepod :P

pretty much all who have tried all the wheels seem to be unanimous and state the T500 is better than G27 or GT2/3. this topic has been covered in depth for the last 6 months thourougly and this thread brings nothing additional.

Don't speak too soon for the wheel's still in spin. OK?
The test report will keep in update ,
Ah-bull said that at the beginning.

And in fact, I didn't see this topic has been covered in depth for the last 6 months thourougly,I sure many people here agree that.

I feel happy too that you happy with your T500rs & gamepod.
but I feel sorry for the T500RS pedals, it's sucks when compare with G27 perfect pedal mod~:dopey:
 
And in fact, I didn't see this topic has been covered in depth for the last 6 months thourougly,I sure many people here agree that.

lol, that is all that has been talked about in many forums since the T500 was launched. maybe you need to read up a bit more and catch up 💡
 
lol, that is all that has been talked about in many forums since the T500 was launched. maybe you need to read up a bit more and catch up 💡

Ok ok ,I understand now, it's just mean you easy to satisfy .
2 inches deep already too enough for you ,go more deeply just make you feel bad & uncomfortable, sorry for that~:nervous:

So now, go keep playing with your world no.1 steering wheel & cockpit, happy with it, don't waste your precious time here~ 👍
 
Don't speak too soon for the wheel's still in spin. OK?
The test report will keep in update ,
Ah-bull said that at the beginning.

And in fact, I didn't see this topic has been covered in depth for the last 6 months thourougly,I sure many people here agree that.

I feel happy too that you happy with your T500rs & gamepod.
but I feel sorry for the T500RS pedals, it's sucks when compare with G27 perfect pedal mod~:dopey:

do you even have a T500rs or a Perfect Pedal because it seems to me you are just making up something to give the guy a rise? 👎

update :

current setup : fanatec GT2 + g27 pedal (with perfect pedal)

findings :

&#8251;&#12288;could not apply ~10-50% throttle smoothly and increase in speed gradually
&#8251;&#12288;will set up CSP tonight asap so as to continue the testing.
&#8251;&#12288;can only archieve 98-99% throttle. not 100%

Will be interesting to see what you conclude in regards to CSP vs Perfect Pedal, etc

Exactly. Of course, if you're lucky enough to run motion seat like d-box or simconmotion with PC sims, you'll be able to lower the FFB of the wheel and still able to feel both lateral and longitudinal "g"forces. In GT5 for example, you can feel that g forces are encoded into the wheel's FFB. I'm sure if PD were to implement an option for motion seats (like they did in a special version of GT4), it would be just incredible.




Any little motion that's done continuously will help develop muscle so that your body can adjust to the task. One of the attachment race drivers use (to their weight machine) is a steering wheel. It helps to build arm, shoulder and especially neck muscles. Here's pic of what Audi driver Benoit Treluyer (this year's Le Mans winner and also Nissan Super GT driver) use in his home (that's his kid, btw):

DSC092014-750x562.jpg

That's a funny pic btw, nice post
 
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do you even have a T500rs or a Perfect Pedal because it seems to me you are just making up something to give the guy a rise? 👎

I using perfect pedal and try ah-bull's T500rs. Directly compare these 2 wheel.
T500rs wheel extremely fantastic, but really feel sorry for the brake pedal...
but it's much better if compare with original G27 Brake pedal.
I think it's a fair comment, right ?
Waiting to try the GT2 with CSP, I never try it.:grumpy:
 
I using perfect pedal and try ah-bull's T500rs. Directly compare these 2 wheel.
T500rs wheel extremely fantastic, but really feel sorry for the brake pedal...
but it's much better if compare with original G27 Brake pedal.
I think it's a fair comment, right ?
Waiting to try the GT2 with CSP, I never try it.:grumpy:

Wait- so you have a T500RS or G27 + Perfect Pedal?

do you know ah-bull in real life?

Yep its a fair comment if you already used the T500rs or Pefect Pedal sure 👍


I think I get what you are saying. You own the perfect Pedal and tried out ah-bull's T500rs. By all means, that gives you way more credibility than I have!
 
Wait- so you have a T500RS or G27 + Perfect Pedal?

do you know ah-bull in real life?

Yep its a fair comment if you already used the T500rs or Pefect Pedal sure 👍


I think I get what you are saying. You own the perfect Pedal and tried out ah-bull's T500rs. By all means, that gives you way more credibility than I have!

If I guess correctly, I should know who is "MARC BOLAN".

only one forum member tried my T500RS. If he is MARC BOLAN, he could give accurate and objective comments !

I also tried his PS3/GT5 3 Monitors setup&#12290;it is supreme !!!
 
I see! So it appears for Marc, the Perfect Pedals was a huge level above the T500rs pedals. I suppose that makes sense and is no big surprise.

I was hoping they would make a Perfect Pedal mod for the T500rs shortly (I think I mentioned that before). They look really nice.
 
Wait- so you have a T500RS or G27 + Perfect Pedal?

do you know ah-bull in real life?

Yep its a fair comment if you already used the T500rs or Pefect Pedal sure 👍


I think I get what you are saying. You own the perfect Pedal and tried out ah-bull's T500rs. By all means, that gives you way more credibility than I have!

Yep,I know ah-bull in real life,we meet at local forum ,but I forgot I'm using different name here:crazy:
we met not in a long time, but both using perfect pedal with G27 before we knew each other, always exchange sim-driving experience since we met .

For me, if T500rs have a stiff and pressure sensitive brake pedal , that's perfect enough!
 
I was hoping they would make a Perfect Pedal mod for the T500rs shortly (I think I mentioned that before). They look really nice.

We are both thinking the same thing. I still waiting a pressure sensitive brake mod for T500rs.
And now I curious between Csp & G27 with perfect pedal mod .
Never seen any directly and deeply comparison report, so waiting for ah-bull reviews.
(I'm not in the country now, no chance to try his GT2 Csp.:banghead:)
 
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