gas

[jimmabean]

just a quick question...does how hard you drive your car effect gas milage??

one more thing...how much does the mileage effect a cars engine/proformance??

 

[luftrofl]

Welcome to GTP, you can use the "edit button" to edit and add questions to your original post(it's better than having two in a row, right?)

Anyways, on to your questions:
1) I would assume that how hard you drive you car does have an effect on gas consumption.
2) The more the car has been driven, the more the engine wears down(power &performance). Keeping the car at the red-line also hurts performance.
3) Changing your oil improves engine performance to a point, meaning it cannot fix the loss of power due to engine wear, but new oil will perform better than old oil.

 

[GT4_Rule]

This issue has been brought up few times. Like luftrofl said, it does seem to affect the mileage, although it's likely to be very marginal. I don't really worry about mileage a lot.

 

[Ermac26]

yes is the answer

 

[G.T]

Yep, it is proven it works to a degree. One of the tests is found here.

 

[Syntax error]

I'm in the camp that says, driving the car hard (revving high), won't effect the wear of the car in GT4,
but the mileage will.... as proven here

I don't think GT4 is sophisticated enough to calculate the wear of the engine on hard driving and only bases engine wear calculations on mileage.... but that's just my opinion formed when playing GT...

 

[PARAGON GT]

If you drive well into readline it will affect your HP.

I had a charger that I would push hard into the red. It had less than 250 miles on it and was losing horse.

 

[Speed Drifter]

Another thing I'd like to point out is how mileage and presumed engine wear actually lowers your fuel consumption!
I've been doing lots of testing with full throttle / max speed and highway consumption with a handful of cars and it really seems like PD didn't program any real mileage wearing into the game, cars just artificially lose their power much like if the cars' ECU were remapped to use less fuel

 

[jimmabean]

sweet...thanks for all of the info...next time i'll edit that

 

[Arawn]

I don't know if fuel economy is that realistic because i did a test as well and it wasn't even close to reality. I started by picking a one-of car because a more common car would have various models and techdata found on the net could end up being for the wrong car, i picked the cizeta.
i searched for specs and it stated the tank capacity was 120 Liters.
GT4 uses "blocks" and a full tank is 80 blocks. Then i picked a track (i think it was el capitan) and searched its length. Then i did a few laps ( 5 or so, can't remember ) and pitted again. The average usage was 25-26 blocks.

So using the 120L and 80 blocks i calculated "L/block" and did that x 26.
i also did the lenght of the track times the laps i did and that gave me a certain mileage (in KM). The result was so many liters / a certain amount of KM.

when i double checked the whole process making sure no errors were made i reformed it to the standard of L/100KM and came up with a fuel economy of about 120L / 100KM wich is way (and i mean WAY) off the specs posted on the net.

(and if those specs were wrong it's just impossible, a car with a 120L/100KM fuel economy, even if it's a wacky 80's supercar with 2 engines bolted together. Most cars can do with 8-10L/100KM and a real gaz guzzler, A hummer H2 on rough terrain giving it all he got, would get about 30-35L/100KM.)

I'm not sure if holding back would give the car better Fuel economy but if the game is this unrealistic then it basicly doesn't matter now does it?
Although, i do believe the game is better this way because when fuel economy would be realistic you could enter a endurance race with a stock car and race for 8 hours without the need to fill your car with additional fuel. That way the whole idea of fuel would be pointless and an unneeded feat. The same with tyres, many claim they'r red to soon in comparison with real tyres. But if you never have to change tyres what's the point. I think polyphony intentionally increased the pase of fuel/tyre usage/wear to make the game more of a ... well, game, actually and it fits the whole "a race lasts about 10 minutes" -concept.

And about the enginewear, thats just a proven fact.

PS: you can see i'm not specific on details,that's because it was a long time since the test but i can remember the final result. i'm sorry evrything is in mainland euro spec, i'm just to lazy to convert. And i'm also sorry about the many typo's.

 

[Famine]

How hard did you drive the Cizeta?

The Bentley Speed 8, when winning 24 Heures du Mans, managed just over 4mpg (72l/100km, unless my maths is off). This is really quite close to the GT4 figure - but we tend to assume that the fuelie, GT4's unofficial fuel unit, is equal to the litre, as it more closely matches real life figures, if not tank capacities.

Taking your Cizeta as using 25 fuelies/litres for 5 laps of El Capitan (14.85 miles) gives 2.75mpg or 105l/100km. Still quite heavily crappy, but I doubt it less for 15 miles of absolutely nailed-on driving in a heavy 16 cylinder supercar.

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

From my extensive testing on fuel consumption I have come to the following conclusions:

The "fuel blocks" are liters, and every car is given the same tank capacity, 80 liters.

Many things affect fuel consumption, engine, revs, throttle use, etc.

Different tracks require higher revs, and more frequent acceleration and engine breaking than others, thus not only you, but the AI cars as well will have different fuel consumption depending on the cars they use, the track they are on, and how they drive.

To get a better idea on this, may I suggest checking out my latest AI Ratings & Data info:

Ranking & Data on all the AI Cars for European Event: 1000 Miles!

• MPP = Miles per Pit Stop
• MPG = Miles per Gallon
• LFU = Liters of Fuel Used (entire race)

You'll see that on track with long straights, and fewer percentage of shifting, the MPG is better then on tracks requiring numerous gear changes and lots of acceleration off slow corners.

 

[niky]

In my experience, hard driving really hurts fuel consumption and I have noticed that consumption seems lower on long tracks with less acceleration/deceleration events than twisty tracks.

And Famine is correct, as per experience, the "fuelie" unit does seem to be liters, and GT4 assumes that all cars have a race-ready fuel cell set at 80 liters.

RE: Cizeta: considering that the engine is basically two highly tuned V8s mated to the same tranny, that consumption isn't so far-fetched

 

[Duke]

I don't know if fuel economy is that realistic because i did a test as well and it wasn't even close to reality.
...
when i double checked the whole process making sure no errors were made i reformed it to the standard of L/100KM and came up with a fuel economy of about 120L / 100KM wich is way (and i mean WAY) off the specs posted on the net.

(and if those specs were wrong it's just impossible, a car with a 120L/100KM fuel economy, even if it's a wacky 80's supercar with 2 engines bolted together. Most cars can do with 8-10L/100KM and a real gaz guzzler, A hummer H2 on rough terrain giving it all he got, would get about 30-35L/100KM.)

I'm not sure if holding back would give the car better Fuel economy but if the game is this unrealistic then it basicly doesn't matter now does it?

As Famine has pointed out, fuel economy in racecars has nothing to do with the street car 'fuel economy' figures posted on the net. First off, the published figures are nearly always extremely optimistic, to put it politely, even for street use. For a small, nearly-stock club racer such as a Spec Miata, Neon ACR, or Civic Si, fuel economy under race conditions is half or less of what it would be for the corresponding street car. So truly there is no correspondence between street and track.

All acceleration in a race car is done at full throttle and usually involves shifting at redline, and sustained high RPM is the norm. This obviously burns much more gas than normal in-traffic driving. Additionally, air resistance goes up as an approximate square of the car's velocity. So sustained high-speed racing really drinks the fuel as well.

While it would be nice if fuel capacity and relative economy differed among cars, I think we'll have to wait for GT5 on the PS3 for that. In the meantime, it serves as an interesting minor dimension to the game.

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

While it would be nice if fuel capacity and relative economy differed among cars, I think we'll have to wait for GT5 on the PS3 for that.

What exactly do you mean by relative economy?

Other then every car getting the same fuel cell capacity, their economy (MPG) varies specifically to each car, the track they are used on, and the way they are driven. Frankly I was surprised to see this considering how few races in GT4 actually require fuel stops, how little difference there is in GT4 when driving a near empty tank vs. a full one, and that as long as you don't let the tank drop below half full, there is no extra time wasted in the pits when you choose to refuel (assuming you are replacing tires at the same time of course).

In other words, fuel doesn't play too drastic a role in GT4, but the PD programmers sure went out of their way to make sure that the economy of each car was VERY realistic to real world race conditions. Kuddos to them for that at least.

 

[SirBerra]

Keep it away from the redline in all gears by a few hundred revs. Never allow that red rev light to flicker. Only use manual shifting so that you have complete control over shift points. Use the fewest power mods possible and still be able to win the race. These steps will also allow your car to keep it's power longer.

Usually tires wear out long before fuel runs out so I'd say don't go crazy about saving fuel.

 

[Arawn]

How hard did you drive the Cizeta?

...

we tend to assume that the fuelie, GT4's unofficial fuel unit, is equal to the litre, as it more closely matches real life figures, if not tank capacities.

...

Taking your Cizeta as using 25 fuelies/litres for 5 laps of El Capitan (14.85 miles) gives 2.75mpg or 105l/100km. Still quite heavily crappy, but I doubt it less for 15 miles of absolutely nailed-on driving in a heavy 16 cylinder supercar.

How hard i drove the cizeta ?

Lets just say the gas pedal was bent, the only thing illuminating the track were my brakes and the layer of rubber left behind was thicker then the one at the local gymclub.

Fuelie eh ?

I never knew that GT4 worked this way and i guess this was the major flaw in my calculations. So instead of taking the tank capacity and figuring out how many liters would resemble a "block" (now known as a fueliebar ). I should have took a car and just exept it has 80 fueliebars wich are close to 80 liters of tank capacity. and figure out the cars economy from this point on.

nailed-on driving , indeed !

I know how hard driving can worsen the Fuel economy but i didn't realise it could get as bad as 6 times normal consumption. but it doesn't matter because i'm going to preform a new set of tests, now using the proper way of working (e.g more details AND with 80 fuelies) , and come back with the results later.

Arawn.

 

[Duke]

What exactly do you mean by relative economy?

Other then every car getting the same fuel cell capacity, their economy (MPG) varies specifically to each car, the track they are used on, and the way they are driven.

Oh, I missed the part where you said that the economy varied by car. I thought it just varied by driving and track style. Good, then.

I haven't run any races using fuel yet, so I've had no firsthand experience.

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

I should have took a car and just exept it has 80 fueliebars wich are close to 80 liters of tank capacity.

Not close, exactly 80 liters.

I know how hard driving can worsen the Fuel economy but i didn't realise it could get as bad as 6 times normal consumption. but it doesn't matter because i'm going to preform a new set of tests, now using the proper way of working (e.g more details AND with 80 fuelies) , and come back with the results later.

Calculating and averaging fuel consumption in GT4 is really not that complicated, even less so if yo use an excel spreadsheet:



(click to enlarge)

Using B-spec I follow each car, and jot down the number laps raced and fuel used between pit stops. I calculate the fuel usage by subtracting the number shown in the pits just before refueling from 80. I multiply the numbers of laps between pit stops by the exact mileage of each lap for that track. Then I take that number and divide it by the number of liters used between the same pit stops. This will reveal the Miles per liter rating for that car on that track. To convert it to MPG (gallons), I simply multiply that number by 3.785

As I mentioned earlier, in the following link:

Ranking & Data on all the AI Cars for European Event: 1000 Miles!

There are plenty of examples showing how each car has a specific MPG, and how that MPG is affected depending on the type of course.

Oh, I missed the part where you said that the economy varied by car. I thought it just varied by driving and track style. Good, then.

No worries, just wanted to be sure I understood what you meant.

 

[Metar]

Well, I thought that a "fuelie" depended on the car, since the Chevelle SS takes 40 fuelies between each pit on the Nurb' (but hey, American Muscle drinks away your fuel), compared to the AC 427 which takes 13 fuelies per pit (and it pits less). Meanwhile, the AMG Mercedes CLK-GTR Racer only needs four fuelies for 5 laps around the high-speed ring (Yeah, in one of my races with it, with 5 or so laps, an AI tossed me into the pit on the 5th lap . Still won). But still, a racer with 1000+ HP could not possible take only 4 litres for a track with lots of speed...

 

[Arawn]

I have completed my tests and here are the results.

Test setup:

3 cars
A small and economic one --- I chose the MG 160TF ,
A fast sportscar --- I chose the BMW M3 ,
And a large, but fast, heavy saloon or SUV --- I chose the Chrysler 300C Hemi.

4 laps of El Capitan with sporty driving (flat out).
4 laps of El Capitan with normal driving (pushing the gas only ½ way)
2 laps of test coarse at a crusing speed of 75 MPH / 120 KMH
2 laps of test coarse at a crusing speed of 125 MPH / 200 KMH

** I tried posting the results but it was to long and messy so here's a link to a .doc file i made **


And Digital-Nitrate, that spreadsheet is impressive, as are all the other tests done by other GTPlanet members. I would have probably found my conclusion as written in the document easely by just using the search button but I really wanted to find out for myself and since I spend a lot of time on the tests I thought “why not post them anyway” .

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

Nice work Arawn. 👍

For those curious or that want to calculate expected fuel consumption for a specific car on a specific track, my recommendation is to do the evaluation based solely on the results from monitoring AI driven cars as they will be far more consistent per lap, than most human drivers. Obviously, this cannot always be done as not all cars are driven by AI for every track.

Also keep in mind that while most of the time, due to the consistency of the AI drivers, on any given track, for each specific car, the AI driver will pit after the same amount of laps and will use the same amount of fuel for each of their pit stops. However, some cars on some tracks will have some minor variations.

For instance, on El Capitan, the Corvette ZR-1 will consistently pit every 12 laps and will have used 33 liters of fuel between stops. Thus, the ZR-1 gets approximately 4.1 MPG on that track.

The Corvette Grand Sport on the other hand will pit every 13 or 14 laps. If it is 13 laps, then the fuel consumption can be either 35 or 36 liters. If a stop is 14 laps, then the fuel consumption can be either 37 or 38 liters.

For this reason, in order to get the most accurate MPG, you will have to average out data from several pit stops. In the case of the Grand Sport, its MPG on El Capitan is approximately 4.2 MPG.

 

[Metar]

Impressing...

But still, I don't get how a super-fast racer with 1100+HP only consumes 4 litres for those 5 laps around the High-Speed Ring...

 

[niky]

How long is the High Speed ring? That puts consumption at anywhere between 4-9 mpg, depending on track length.

One thing we all have to remember here is that a fuelie is not an exact measurement. There is no way to tell if a liter or half-a-liter is represented by each block at the pits.

The only way to be absolutely sure of consumption is to run the tank dry (which takes a long time, even on a 1000+ hp car) or to work out the average from dozens of pitstops, as Digital-Nitrate has done, to minimize statistical error.

 

[Famine]

How long is the High Speed ring?

2.49 miles. 5 laps is 12.45 miles. 4 fuelies in that time is 3.1 miles per fuelie, or 11.8mpg (US).

 

[niky]

👍 Thanks. That is rather strange in the light of other gross estimates. Methinks I'll look that up myself tomorrow by running an LMP dry on that track.

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

Just want to clear up an error in the reported MPG estimates for the CLK-GTR:

Well, I thought that a "fuelie" depended on the car, since the Chevelle SS takes 40 fuelies between each pit on the Nurb' (but hey, American Muscle drinks away your fuel), compared to the AC 427 which takes 13 fuelies per pit (and it pits less). Meanwhile, the AMG Mercedes CLK-GTR Racer only needs four fuelies for 5 laps around the high-speed ring (Yeah, in one of my races with it, with 5 or so laps, an AI tossed me into the pit on the 5th lap . Still won). But still, a racer with 1000+ HP could not possible take only 4 litres for a track with lots of speed...

How long is the High Speed ring? That puts consumption at anywhere between 4-9 mpg, depending on track length.

2.49 miles. 5 laps is 12.45 miles. 4 fuelies in that time is 3.1 miles per fuelie, or 11.8mpg (US).

The problem here is that the OP, Gingiba either misread or looked at the fuel bar after it had already begun to refuel, as the AMG CLK-GTR consumes an average of 14 (not 4) fuel blocks (which are liters) every five laps on High-Speed Ring. That equates to a MPG of 3.4 which is a good deal less than 11.8 and in line with the average MPG of the 22+ LM cars I have tested, all of which range between 3-4 MPG on all but the Test Course, where MPG can be significantly improved due to a combination of slipsteaming and not having to change gears or make several hard accelerations off slow corners.

For instance, the Nissan R89C only gets about 3.5 MPG on Tokyo Route 246, but gets 4.9 MPG on the Test Course.

I hope this clears up any notion as to the possibility of fuel efficient 750+HP LM cars.

 

[Metar]

Yes, indeed. I did it again, and it was 14, as you said..