General Questions

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This is the theory that many in the scientific body of North America agree with. Your answer is rather solid.

How is pound-thrust measured? (As in, what are the methods of doing so?)
Well, way back in the day they just used a simple mechanical scale to measure the thrust. With the first US jet, the P-59 Airacomet they measured the thrust by tying to a pole with a scale and ran the engines at 100% power to see how much pull they exerted on the scale. I am not 100% sure but I do believe modern engine test stands can measure how much thrust a engine produces. Also a sensor/gage on the engine that measures EPR (Exhaust Pressure Ratio) can also give a indication of how much thrust a engine is producing. That method is only for normal turbofan/turbojets though. Not turboprops or recip engines.
 
A very simple question but I don't know the answer:

- Is it definitely or definately?

- , and or without the comma?
 
I always use *definitely* but when I read this: ...

I say it closest to "poon", but there's definately a "w" sound in there too.

... I started to doubt because of the very good reputation of this GTP-member!




Absolutely no pun or pwn or insult intended!




:)
 
Definitely.

, and - depends. Compound sentence get a comma:

Bill ran the race, and John watched from the stands.

A list gets the comma. John, Bill, and Tom . . . .

Two items, no comma. John and Bill . . . .

That's what I remember, anyway. Junior high was a LO-O-O-O-NG time ago!
 
How flammible is Nitro Methane?

quite

Nitromethane has a laminar combustion velocity of approx. 0.5 m/s, somewhat higher than gasoline, thus making it suitable for high speed engines. It also has a somewhat higher flame temperature of about 2400 °C. The high heat of vaporisation of 0.56 MJ/kg together with the high fuel flow provides significant cooling of the incoming charge (about twice that of methanol), resulting in reasonably low temperatures.

link
 
Okay, here I go.....

What is a better way to survive a car accident? While wearing a seatbelt with a deployed airbags (the front and side arid bags) or wearing a racing harness with a build in roll cage? Which would you think be more painful?
 
A roll cage is dangerous without wearing a helmet. You could bump your head agianst the roll cage. A harness is good, I've one on my car and use it almost all the time when I am driving.
 
Okay, here I go.....

What is a better way to survive a car accident? While wearing a seatbelt with a deployed airbags (the front and side arid bags) or wearing a racing harness with a build in roll cage? Which would you think be more painful?

I would think it would depend almost entirely on the type of accident and even what type of car. If we're assuming the same car in both cases, and we're assuming side and front air bags (arid bags sound painful), I would say that for a side or front collision I'd probably rather be in the car with air bags (unless it was Chinese, in which case it doesn't matter, you're screwed). If it's a rollover collision I'd probably rather be in the car with the roll bar and harness. I don't think I'd want the air bags for a rear collision.

For a combination of the above, it would depend on how much of column A you take and how much of column B.
 
I think Danoff basically nailed it on that one.

However, is there not a reason why no racing league uses airbags? ;)
 
Okay, here I go.....

What is a better way to survive a car accident? While wearing a seatbelt with a deployed airbags (the front and side arid bags) or wearing a racing harness with a build in roll cage? Which would you think be more painful?

A full cage + harness in a primarily street driven car is stupid. As kikie said, a cage, even a padded one, is not safe unless you wear a helmet. So unless you are ready to put one (and a HANS device) on every time you go for groceries, I would say forget it.

Most double duty street/track cars use a roll bar, perhaps a half cage in the back, race seats and harnesses. I have no data to show whether this is any safer than factory safety equipment in a street accident, but I suspect it would be in some cases, provided all the equipment was installed and used properly.

But a bar will not help you with side impacts as Dan points out and I would rather have the factory side/curtain bags in that case.

Ultimately, a properly installed full cage + harness + helmet w/HANs is going to be the safest. That's why race cars have them. BUT race car set ups ONLY work correctly when they have been installed correctly and you are using all the components together.

I think Danoff basically nailed it on that one.

However, is there not a reason why no racing league uses airbags? ;)

Because cages + harnesses + helmet w/HANs is safer.


M
 
Uh..... I think I could agree with Danoff and ///M-Spec. It really depends on what type of accident should which method is safer. But what if, lets say I want to have a double duty street/track car, would it be street legal and safe enough to drive? Also, does a cage actually strengthens the rigidity of the car? If so, shouldn't it stop/lessens the car from warping/splitting apart?
 
I'd rather be in a car with a cage in a crash.

If I'm on a track when I crash, I'll statistically be far safer than on the road anyhow. Any other traffic is going in the same direction, so if I crash into it, we'll have a smaller delta-V and thus much smaller delta-k.e.

Also, if I crash into the scenery, unless I've done something really stupid, it will probably be a relatively slow bump anyway, thanks to the realisation I've done something stupid (brake/spin/evacuate bowels) and all the runoff, gravel, and tyres. And then possibly, armco (ouch.)

Me and my crash-hatted head will be nowhere near the roll cage, unless it's gone very, very, very wrong indeed.

Now, being in a road car in a crash is pot luck. If a semi-trailer lets go on the other side of the motorway and somehow launches over the reservation, we've got a closure of ~150mph. Airbags won't save ya, and nor will a helmet and rollcage. HANS and a carbon fibre monocoque like in an F1 car might.

I wonder, in something like a high-speed deer strike, would you be safer in an SUV or large sedan... or in an Ariel Atom whilst wearing a helmet?
 
It depends. There are bolt-in cages which are legal in many event types, but they are inferior to a properly built welded cage. There are half cages and simple roll bars. They all have pros and cons.

Whether it is safe depends on what factory equipment you get rid of. Personally, if my car had side and curtain airbags that would need to come out in order for a roll bar to go in, I would think long and hard about whether or not to do it. But if it was a basic car to begin with and only had one or two front airbags, then a rear cage costs you little but the back seats.

Whether it is legal or not depends on where you live. Looking at your location, I would say I haven't the faintest clue what your government allows.

Yes, a welded cage, properly built, greatly strengthens the car. But they are $$$. But all the chassis strength isn't going to help you much if your head hits a cage bar or if you break your neck.

It sounds like you are planning or thinking about doing something along these lines. True?


M
 
I would never cage a street car. Too dangerous by far. An exception might be a half-cage or a good roll bar... which is only good enough for HPDE track days. If it's good enough for wheel-to-wheel racing, it's too dangerous for a street car.
 
HANS :confused:


what is the difference between a cage and a roll bar?
 
kikie – most of your questions can be answered by just searching on Wikipedia. ;)
 
I would have thought your harness will provide greater safety in most situations such as side on collisions holding your body inplace better perhaps reducing the chances of hitting your head on the door. I guess it would also reduce some of the damage caused to the chest by spreading the force to the chest over more than one strap, then again that is a fairly marginal injury in comparison.

The HANS device is without doubt one of the more important safety devices when combined with a good harness as the HANS device is held in place by the harness. This would be a much better way of preventing neck injuries rather than an airbag (and without the broken nose :D).

Of course then you have you safety helmet which prevents objects to the face qutie nicely, not much to discuss other than that.

Roll cages of course provide great rigidity to the car in general, this is very important in crashes, particularly in the event of a roll over. As has been mentioned already, they don't do the cranium any favours when in a high velocity impact. This of course means while greatly helping you from getting crumpled along with your car in a crash may just kill you with head injuries if no helmet is worn.

So really what I am saying is that if you're going to put in a roll cage you are going to need space for it (not a problem for a stripped out race car). If you are going to have a roll cage then you are going to want a helmet to prevent it from killing you. Ok but if you are going to wear a helmet then you might aswell chuck in the HANS device for good measures, but for your HANS device to work then you need to be tightly secured. So you might want to go for your 5 or 6 point racing harness. If you want your Racing harness to work correctly you need to fasten them to the cars frame rather than the seat which means your rear seats have to go (again not a problem for a racing car). Then to finish the job you might aswell throw in a handy fire extinguisher. For the really scared people you could always construct an nice carbon fibre monocoque to help prevent that cockpit intrution.

Misfortune has it that these (exceptionally good) safety measures just aren't practical enough for your daily commute, most people wouldn't give up their rear seats for the 5 point harness, as Clarkson pointed out people generally don't want 'scafold' in their car. To top that people wearing a helmet and HANS device would look a complete plebb driving down the road unless they where in a racing car (in which case you would probably wonder why they are driving a race car on the road), which again doesn't appeal to most people, if I am honest it doesn't really appeal to me that much, unless I wanted a track car of course.

To sum it up, when combined these safety measures can really improve your safety quite dramatically. But the measures required to combine these safety devices make them completely impractical use for general road use.

Race cars have no such problem because;

A) Race cars aren't required to be practical

B) You don't look a tool when using the correct saftey equipment on a race track, conversely people who don't use the correct safety equipment on a race track look a tool.

C) Race cars are more likely to crash than normal road users so it makes sense to have safe cars despite the cost.

D) Impacts on a track that normal safety equipment to protect you from particularly well, tend to require more versatile safety equipment. E.g rolls aren't as frequent in normal driving compared to your average shunt. In things like rallying rolls are common and are therefore pose a more prominent danger when not properly protected.

Hope that helps answer your question. 👍
 
kikie – most of your questions can be answered by just searching on Wikipedia. ;)
Yes but isn't this thread called Ask GTPlant > General Questions? So I ask questions. ;)
 
Full cage, 5-point harness, helmet = way safer than lap/shoulder belt and airbags. Driver remains restrained, no matter how many impacts. Airbags deflate instantly (that's how they work, by relieving the pressure of your face into the bag at a rate much lower than what the windshield can do) and are useless if there's a second impact. Also airbags only work if you're in the correct position, and the impact is from the correct direction.

5-point harness without the roll cage or roll bar is still safer than a lap/shoulder belt and airbags. In other words, just install the 5-point harness and use it in your car.

But for real-world driving, a 5-point harness sux!!! You can't reach the radio or the glove box, can't get your wallet out at the drivethrough, and entry/exit is compromised if you include the roll cage.

As for airbags in race cars, there are almost always multiple impacts in a racing accident, and you can never tell which direction those impacts may come from. Also, once deployed, the car would be forced to retire even if otherwise relatively undamaged. You can't repack a deployed airbag.
 
It sounds like you are planning or thinking about doing something along these lines. True?


M

Yup. :)
I was thinking of making a decent street/track car and maybe (and a big maybe at that!) enter a drift comp when I finish school. Probably gonna start off with a cheap FR car and build more from there. As most any sort of motorsport events, they do need you to have a car complete with a roll cage/harness as well as making sure that the car is 100% safe to compete with. I don't really care if I need to spend a lot on the car just to satisfy myself. I don't need to have any luxuries for my car (heck, I would even chuck my A/C out to save weight!) But for practicality, is it legal to drive a track car on the road in your place? I think if I remembered correctly, most of the D1 participants (as well as local drifters) could drive their cars on the road. So there should be no problem for me to get an approval.....

Also, how expensive am I looking at a roll cage? Does it depend on what type of tubes do they use to making the cage?
 
As stated earlier, Head And Neck Support. Note that HANS devices are mostly designed to prevent your head from snapping forward if you run into something, and don't really do much for side impacts.

what is the difference between a cage and a roll bar?
A lot. Rollbar at top left, roll cage at bottom right. Note that you can get even more complicated with multiple door bars for side impacts, etc.

barpric2dm3.jpg


This gives a basic idea of pricing for simple prefabricated cages. Don't forget you need to add a day or more for installation. Custom work is extra, too.

A good, 8-point, weld-in cage is going to run $3000-4000 assuming you bring them the car with the interior stripped out.
 
Can an airbag damage your eardrums when going off?

Yes, I hear it is about 170 Db, well when I say I hear I don't mean I have acctually heard one go off...
 
What am I missing? What is dangerous about putting a cage in a street car?

You reduce the amount of cabin space for your un-helmeted head to fly around uncontrolled in the event of a crash.
 
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