Getting tired of the 2D Scenery...

[Dennisch]

This is a stupid argument, you don't have to be an expert in the field of something to criticise it as an end user. Imagine if you were unhappy with your new car and the saleman told you to go away and build your own if you weren't happy.

I am disappointed in how GT looks at times because I believed the hype about what the console could do.....and then Kaz say he needs another generation to achieve it.

It's no argument, it's an order 👍

 

[Gejabo]

This is a stupid argument, you don't have to be an expert in the field of something to criticise it as an end user. Imagine if you were unhappy with your new car and the saleman told you to go away and build your own if you weren't happy.

I am disappointed in how GT looks at times because I believed the hype about what the console could do.....and then Kaz say he needs another generation to achieve it.

But I'm not telling the sales guy that I could built a better car.


Unlike this guy is doing.

I could model a lot if not most of their props better than them. I'm mostly self taught too, besides some of the things I have learned so far from my major in Game Art and Design.

I think the relpy was meant for him

 

[Blitz187]

2D trees are only an issue if youre taking photos.... Other than that I see no real reason to complain about them... If youre looking at trees while youre racing, then youre doing something wrong imo.

 

[Mygroth]

This is a stupid argument, you don't have to be an expert in the field of something to criticise it as an end user. Imagine if you were unhappy with your new car and the saleman told you to go away and build your own if you weren't happy.

I am disappointed in how GT looks at times because I believed the hype about what the console could do.....and then Kaz say he needs another generation to achieve it.

You're pretty much right. Nice comparison btw ^^

 

[Big Ron]

I know it takes a lot of processing power to make trees better etc, but I feel like they could have hid some of the objects that stick out like a sore thumb a little better. Some of the trees and "forest pictures" aren't even angled right and look like they are cardboard cutouts that fell over. 👎

Kind of starting to bug me...

Anyone else?

Just shows, how little knowledge you have of game engines and game programming.

This is a stupid argument, you don't have to be an expert in the field of something to criticise it as an end user. Imagine if you were unhappy with your new car and the saleman told you to go away and build your own if you weren't happy.

I am disappointed in how GT looks at times because I believed the hype about what the console could do.....and then Kaz say he needs another generation to achieve it.

I think, it isn´t a stupid argument. Everyone can critisise everything. But the correct critics are those, coming from someone who knows what's going on.

 

[VBR]

The car is the star in GT at the expense of all else, always has been & it's always bugged me too. There's not enough cohesion, in terms of graphical quality, between the cars & tracks, the cars are super high res & parts of the tracks look super low res. This was worse in previous full games & always made me laugh because, when you drive with bumper cam as most people do, all you see is the track! I heard that was why they used to have mainly just close ups of the cars in replays back then.

I think it's generally getting better as the series progresses & prehaps the PS4 will finally give them all the processing power they'll ever need, maybe the tracks then will be as detailed as the photomode locations are now. For now I guess all we can do is just avert our eyes from the offending sections of track, hehe!

 

[Vince_Fiero]

2D trees are only an issue if youre taking photos.... Other than that I see no real reason to complain about them... If youre looking at trees while youre racing, then youre doing something wrong imo.

I'm also looking at the road.

2D is less an issue then jumping scenery (Toscana) and jumping shades.

Looking forward to GT7 on PS4, I'm confident it will improve.

 

[Rylan]

I could model a lot if not most of their props better than them. I'm mostly self taught too, besides some of the things I have learned so far from my major in Game Art and Design.

The issue is not that they cannot model the scenery better.

The issue is that they are using up a vast amount of system resources in order to render the existing models and scenery and to handle the physics. If your major had been in programming they'd teach you more about it.

Games and any other computer program are all about tradeoffs. What can you do with the time you have and the system resources.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

I think talent is different from skills, sure of course there are talented people there, but its not needed in modeling cars to the tee, exactly like the real thing. The talent goes to the ones who drew the car and sculpted it out of clay.

I'm guessing in the older GT's, talent was needed to make a car look right in 3d based on photos. But the level of detail in the premium cars is beyond need for the modelers finesse. I don't know how they model the cars, but Tamiya the plastic replica company, already scanned cars into computer with big machines for a decade. I'm guessing GT would not be restricted from such technology.

Anyways, I think cinematography in the game play could've been "better" to my ideals but somebody made their decision based on what the think looks nice and thats that..

Well it takes 6 months to model a premium car for one person in the team. I think they model from high quality pictures and accurate measurements of the car. Before it was just getting a 3d model to look roughly like the car, and it only took 1 or 2 days for previous GT games on PS1. I would think taking 6 months and getting to this level of detail requires more talent than previous GT games where they only took a couple days at a maximum:

http://www.gtpla.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Salzburg_RedbullHangar7_LamborghiniMiuraP400BertonePrototype_C1.jpg

http://www.gtpla.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/FERRARI_330P4-67_JAGUAR_XJ13_66_Ford_GT40markIVRaceCar_01.jpg

http://www.gtpla.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/FERRARI_330P4-67-_01.jpg

http://www.gtpla.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/FORD_Ford_GT40markIVRaceCar_011.jpg

http://www.gtpla.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/gran-turismo5-interior-photomode26.jpg

This is just my personal opinion that PD modellers have a high level of talent to pull of such detailed models from pictures and measurements and then recreate it in the virtual world. Many top modelling firms will struggle to match PD's team of modellers.

 

[BigYoSpeck]

• Smooth 60 FPS at 1080p

This would have been a welcome feature but a quick search for screen tearing or frame rate will quickly uncover it wasn't achieved

• Nice looking scenery

Eigernordwand, this is what the PS3 is capable of. The poor tracks aren't it's limits they are copy and paste without the small effort of fixing the PS1 era visual techniques

• Detailed car models and physics

The problem is you stick 12 of them on screen and it kills the frame rate

People can say you don't notice all they like but you do, every so often you just catch a glimpse of that crowd or a tree and it's a disappointing feeling.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

I know it takes a lot of processing power to make trees better etc, but I feel like they could have hid some of the objects that stick out like a sore thumb a little better. Some of the trees and "forest pictures" aren't even angled right and look like they are cardboard cutouts that fell over. 👎

Kind of starting to bug me...

Anyone else?

It's funny. Most chaps here complain because they think PD spent too much time on the scenery, not enough time on their personal favorite car that isn't Premium. PD can't win.

GT3 and GT4 (and probably some other racing games as well) have always had the half-designed trees and phony backdrops. Most of the time, I'm too busy concentrating on my driving line to notice.

So you are all fine with standard models like I am? If you complain about standard vs premium at all and argue against this, your logic is flawed. Being able to as a student come up with easy to make better looking props quickly has made me question their art department.

I'm fine with the Standard cars, personally. I'd rather have them in the game than not have them in the game.

In GT3 I got bored with the lack of cars (about 200) so did lots of other people. If GT5 only had a couple hundred Premiums and that's it, I'd already be getting bored with it.

 

[Big Ron]

PD mentioned, that some track took 2 years to be ready for the game. So speaking of untalented modelers and bad quality is a shame.

You always see the quality of a car, 4x2x1 meters in size. A track is 4 up to 25 KILOMETERS long and most tracks, even in older games, have millions of polygons in use. That is up to 3 times more than every premium car in GT5 has.

Think about it.

 

[Samus]

For the most part I don't notice the bad scenery, but there are some places I can't help but doing so. The main two are the whole of Deep Forest Raceway where you can clearly see there is a flat 'wall' of trees all the way around the track, and it looks bad. The other is the last part of the Mulsanne straight at Le Mans. Again you can clearly see the flat 2D walls along either side and all the perfectly identical trees all in an organised row, all an equal distance apart. When all you're doing is going in a straight line it's hard not to notice it.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

This would have been a welcome feature but a quick search for screen tearing or frame rate will quickly uncover it wasn't achieved



Eigernordwand, this is what the PS3 is capable of. The poor tracks aren't it's limits they are copy and paste without the small effort of fixing the PS1 era visual techniques



The problem is you stick 12 of them on screen and it kills the frame rate

People can say you don't notice all they like but you do, every so often you just catch a glimpse of that crowd or a tree and it's a disappointing feeling.

It is close to 60FPS but main reason is due to adding extra effects such as tyre smoke, skid marks and weather effects. If they added better scenery with the current car detail then the game will be running at 30FPS as a maximum.

Also Eiger Nordwand is just as "bad" as other tracks in the game. They did the best job they could to make the game run as close to 60FPS while keeping the car quality at a high. I think the problem is people think the PS3 to be powerful graphically more than it is. I'm hugely impressed by the track and car detail they are pushing into the game at such a high-res and frame rate. If you don't understand the technical aspects of the console limitations then wait until PS4 and you will see how good PD are in scenery visuals.

Finally with 16 on screen the frame rate is a lot higher than any other PS3 car racing game out and the scenery I find looks very good in motion. The car detail in-game is at a very high level to.

 

[ESCUDO 1800hp]

For everyone who says you don't notice the trees and stuff while driving:
I propose that your copy of GT5 should have GT1 graphics with the GT5 physics model.

Yes, the PS3 has limitations, but they could have done a lot better. Considering GT5 is tied for second place in "most expensive development costs in a video game" it really makes you wonder what they were doing.

Programming ingenuity can overcome limitations. Want proof? Just take a look at Resident Evil 4 for the Gamecube. Good developers get things done right.

 

[GT Motion]

Just shows, how little knowledge you have of game engines and game programming.

I said that I know that making the tree's more detailed would take processing power away from the system, so I would rather them hide some of the really bad eye sores instead of stick them out in the open for all to see.

How is that showing how little knowledge I have of game engines and game programming?

 

[Saidur_Ali]

For everyone who says you don't notice the trees and stuff while driving:

I propose that your copy of GT5 should have GT1 graphics with the GT5 physics model.

Yes, the PS3 has limitations, but they could have done a lot better. Considering GT5 is tied for second place in "most expensive development costs in a video game" it really makes you wonder what they were doing.

Programming ingenuity can overcome limitations. Want proof? Just take a look at Resident Evil 4 for the Gamecube. Good developers get things done right.

It's funny when people say PD could have done a lot better. I'm suprised how much they could push the PS3 to do, more so than any other game on the console. PD programming ingenuity has overcome many of the limitations, see how they got tyre smoke and weather effects running at such a high frame rate. Look at GT PSP also as an example. PD got things as close to right as possible, the only thing I think they should of done is dumb down the shadows to have a higher frame rate and also get rid of the complaints of them being jagged. They didn't because they tried to push the boundaries as much as possible and technically it is impressive.

 

[GT Motion]

It's funny when people say PD could have done a lot better. I'm suprised how much they could push the PS3 to do, more so than any other game on the console. PD programming ingenuity has overcome many of the limitations, see how they got tyre smoke and weather effects running at such a high frame rate. Look at GT PSP also as an example. PD got things as close to right as possible, the only thing I think they should of done is dumb down the shadows to have a higher frame rate and also get rid of the complaints of them being jagged. They didn't because they tried to push the boundaries as much as possible and technically it is impressive.

Have you seen weather effects and smoke? They run at a high frame rate because they are nothing but jaggie squares everywhere!

 

[Parnelli Bone]

For everyone who says you don't notice the trees and stuff while driving:
I propose that your copy of GT5 should have GT1 graphics with the GT5 physics model.

Yes, the PS3 has limitations, but they could have done a lot better. Considering GT5 is tied for second place in "most expensive development costs in a video game" it really makes you wonder what they were doing.

I dunno...spending months modeling cars to "Premium" standards (i.e., beautiful and beyond realistic). Getting more advanced physics modeled into the game? Bringing oversteer back? I'm at a loss for what they up to *sarcasm*. Introducing more detail into the online experience? Building new tracks (fictional and real)? Negotiating to get Ferrari, Bugatti, and other supercars into GT5? You're right! What the hell were they doing?

Of course, if they hadn't done any of this stuff, you'd all be complaining about it instead of complaining about an insignificant backdrop of trees.

Programming ingenuity can overcome limitations. Want proof? Just take a look at Resident Evil 4 for the Gamecube. Good developers get things done right.

You lost me here. What does RE4, where you walk around (maybe run occasionally) have to do with GT5, which has us flying thru hairpins and bouncing over rumble strips? Explain, sir.

 

[dzidza]

For everyone who says you don't notice the trees and stuff while driving:
I propose that your copy of GT5 should have GT1 graphics with the GT5 physics model.

I guess you would like Crysis graphics and Super Mario Kart physics. I guess you bought the wrong game 👎

 

[Big Ron]

I said that I know that making the tree's more detailed would take processing power away from the system, so I would rather them hide some of the really bad eye sores instead of stick them out in the open for all to see.

How is that showing how little knowledge I have of game engines and game programming?

In my opinion, PD was hardly trying to get the best relationship between details and quality. For most people, a detailed track with lots of objects is more important than a track with less, but high poly objects, because the more details, the more live comes to the track.

You are right, that Deep Forest has bad trees. But the reason is, that Deep Forest is more a conversion from GT4 like standard cars are. Not much improvement and rework.

But when you look at Tokio Rout 246 for example, you see how good trees can look in the game.

Maybe two much different designers or too much care about the one track than the other. Who knows.

But I know, that tracks would not allow this detail and polygon level of cars because of their size.

 

[Samus]

What also baffles me is that on some of the fantasy tracks they went to the trouble of making pretty scenery but put it in places that you don't actually see when racing, for example that massive arch at Madrid. You never really see it when you're actually racing. I seem to remember a similar structure at Rome on the inside of the last corners.

 

[G.T.Ace]

And even with all the complaining, it's still the overall best looking racing game ever with the most impressive technology.

 

[Samus]

And even with all the complaining, it's still the overall best looking racing game ever with the most impressive technology.

Overall best looking? I wouldn't say so, the premium cars look great, not much else in game does.

 

[GT Motion]

What also baffles me is that on some of the fantasy tracks they went to the trouble of making pretty scenery but put it in places that you don't actually see when racing, for example that massive arch at Madrid. You never really see it when you're actually racing. I seem to remember a similar structure at Rome on the inside of the last corners.

On Cape Ring when I am doing GT Academy, everytime I am coming around the last turn before the straight I have a perfect view straight ahead of the mountains and the trees and see a bunch of not so cleverly stacked 2d trees plaguing the countryside...I feel like they could have at least placed these 2d trees to look a little more authentic.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

For those of you saying Deep Forest is horrible for photomode, just lower the speed setting on the camera. The background is blurred, see? Problem solved. If you need a pic with better trees/better scenery in the background but with a faster camera speed, there are tracks that have this, or the photo vacation area.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Have you seen weather effects and smoke? They run at a high frame rate because they are nothing but jaggie squares everywhere!

Obviously I've seen it and there is pixelization but it is impressive technically. Tyre smoke generally reduces frame rate by a lot and the fact they managed to get both tyre smoke and weather effects running close to 60FPS, it is a great technical achievement.

 

[Big Ron]

On Cape Ring when I am doing GT Academy, everytime I am coming around the last turn before the straight I have a perfect view straight ahead of the mountains and the trees and see a bunch of not so cleverly stacked 2d trees plaguing the countryside...I feel like they could have at least placed these 2d trees to look a little more authentic.

But at first, everyone claiming about bad placed 2d trees and 2d scenery, should give us examples how it should look.

 

[DanDiplo]

Yes, the PS3 has limitations, but they could have done a lot better.

If you read Digitial Foundry's technical analysis of GT5 then you would know they concluded:

"Gran Turismo 5 is in many ways a remarkable technical achievement over and above the range of cool little features Polyphony has implemented. In terms of the basic graphical make-up of the game, the level of detail Polyphony Digital crams into a 60Hz refresh effortlessly seems to exceed the quality of many, if not most, of the 30FPS racers out there."

Or how about IQ Gamer (a site specialising in the image quality of games stated) who stated:

"What is impressive, is that PD have managed to get GT5 running at a mostly stable 60fps across both display modes whilst pushing around a large amount of alpha on screen, along with several highly complex, high poly car models. The use of a full 720p FB with MSAA, and 1080p with QAA plus TAA at 60fps is surely pushing the RSX and PS3’s pixel fill-rate through the roof. So, seeing such consistent levels of performance is a real testament to PD’s coding team and the engine they’ve managed to create in working within such tight constraints."

But forget expert analyses, apparently you know best, with your vast experience of game development on the PS3....

 

[G.T.Ace]

Overall best looking? I wouldn't say so, the premium cars look great, not much else in game does.

That's why I said "overall" because yes, you can pick out some things that don't look too great, but the overall graphics quality is the best out there.