GM to Ally with Nissan-Renault? Probably Not Going to Happen (10/4/2006)

[YSSMAN]

Kirk Kerkorian — the billionaire investor who holds a 9.9 percent stake in General Motors — has formally suggested the struggling automaker form an alliance with Nissan and Renault. Kerkorian's company, Tracinda, said in a letter to GM CEO Rick Wagoner that the partnership would "strengthen the competitive positions of all three companies." GM shares subsequently rose $3.64 to $31.08 in New York Stock Exchange trading. Shortly thereafter, GM issued a statement regarding the idea: "General Motors has received no offer or proposal from Renault/Nissan with respect to its participating in the Renault/Nissan Alliance, as suggested in the 13-D Filing made today by the Tracinda Corporation. The Tracinda request will be taken under advisement by the GM Board of Directors. At this time, we have no further comment."

I like the idea, I really do, but I'm confused as to what the benefit for either side would be. Granted, GM might be able to get some of the Nissan "magic finger" work done on their V6 line, and Nissan might be able to learn how to build a V8, but where does Renault come in?

 

[JCE]

Dude I should drive to where you are a SLAP the poo out of you...for shame. If you are suggesting that the 5.6L V8 Nissan builds isn't capable of competing with GM, Dodge, or Ford then you need a labotomy. Oh and the 4.5L isn't all that bad either. Shame on you.

Renault comes in with their "4-bangers" with some diesel experience and hopefully GM can learn some design from both Renault AND Nissan.

 

[YSSMAN]

...Maybe I should have said "build a more reliable V8," as I do like their 4.3L V8 quite a bit. They have had cylinder-head issues in the past, and I'm not sure if the same problems occour.

But, here is the Nissan-Renault reply:

Nissan has just issued a statement regarding rumors this morning that the Renault-Nissan Alliance might be expanded to include General Motors. "The Renault-Nissan Alliance is an open partnership, which has never been restricted to two partners. Under the right circumstances and with the appropriate partners, the Alliance could be expanded further," the company said. "Such an expansion would only be considered by the Alliance if it were executed in the full spirit of the Alliance, which is founded on trust, transparency, performance and the full respect for individual corporate and brand identity."

"Mr.Ghosn, President and CEO of Renault and Nissan was approached by Mr.Kerkorian, Mr.York and representatives of Tracinda Corporation to assess the merits of GM joining the Renault Nissan Alliance."

"At this point, it is necessary that GM Board and top management fully support this project in order to start the study of this opportunity after agreement of Renault and Nissan boards."

Up here in Michigan, this story has been pretty big most of the day. The possibilities of this "merger" would be HUGE!!! Granted I don't think We would see any major shifts in the brands as a whole, but the technology-sharing would have a major effect on the North American GM models.

...I wonder if FIAT is a little upset after hearing this news?

 

[Wolfe]

A GeneRenNissan Motors would be a huge force in the automotive industry.

On one hand, I don't mind mergers like this, and I can appreciate the products and part-sharing that they bring....but on the other hand, news like this sorta makes me long for the days when manufacturers were simply competitors.

 

[YSSMAN]

Fox News had a big article on the story on their website earlier today, but it has probably been archived by now. It is a very interesting proposition, and it would be Nissan-Renault buying into GM, not the other way around, or atleast that is what I got out of the story.

Granted, I don't want to see much Japanese or French influence on the mostly American/German GM lineup, but a few things here and there might be nice. Diesel I think would be the biggest part of the deal for GM, along with a few deals on getting some Renaults or Citroens sent to the US. As for Renault-Nissan, I could see better hybrid technology going their way, and maybe some good transmission technology as well.

I'm eager to get back to Monday and hear what the deal could possibly develop into. But given GM's money situation, I don't know if they want to buy part of Nissan-Renault or not.

...But hey, if you've got money, this would probably be a good time to buy shares of GM stock before the possible "alliance" goes into effect.

 

[JCE]

I see this as possibly being a very good thing for both parties. GM would get some more Japanese influence and much needed French influence (especially for some car diesels engines). And Renault and Nissan (probably more Nissan) might customize GM's LSx V8 engine for applications in trucks, SUVs, and maybe even a sports coupe. If I were GM I'd JUMP at this chance...I'm not saying GM isn't good or can't do it on their own I'm mearly saying it would be much more beneficial for GM to get some great technology from Renault and Nissan. My opinion anyway...

 

[Jay]

I'm not too sure of about this, I don't want Nissans Platform sharing (V35, 350Z, Fuga etc) turn into GM's badge engineering.

 

[JCE]

This will mean Nissan has to come up with new platforms after GM uses the current one...got to stay one step ahead.

 

[a6m5]

Technologically, I don't see Nissan gaining much from this alliance. I think this alliance will basically be about Renault-Nissan helping GM revive back to a repectful level for payoff later.

 

[Poverty]

****. I wanted to buy GM stocks and now Ive probably missed the ship. Arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

[YSSMAN]

Yeah, I think they said that when the news was first announced, the price for GM jumped almost $3.50 a share on the NYSE. I can't imagine what is going to happen if it ends up going through...

 

[Danny]

I like the idea, I really do, but I'm confused as to what the benefit for either side would be. Granted, GM might be able to get some of the Nissan "magic finger" work done on their V6 line, and Nissan might be able to learn how to build a V8, but where does Renault come in?

Diesels, handling (some more than others) and beauty.

 

[Poverty]

Diesels, handling (some more than others) and beauty.

lol diesels, nissan handling, although renault make some uber handling hot hatches.

 

[Onikaze]

Let's not forget that GM makes what are arguably the best V-8's on earth right now.

Mileage, Compactness, Light Weight, Reliability, Gobs of Power, Easy to Work on.

You can't find that anywhere else.

This wouldn't be a one sided thing, as seems to be implied.

 

[Freddie]

Don't forget that Renault/Nissan/Samsung has Carlos Ghosn - If he were to get a position within GM, that would send a shockwave throughout the entire car-industry, nonetheless quintuple the value of GM stocks.

Just remember what he managed to do with Nissan (Check the link).

 

[jammyozzy]

Ohh, I've been too obsessed with Lotus Carltons today. I imagined the word 'Lotus' in-place of 'Nissan-Renault'.

Anyway, I reckon this would be a good move if it goes through. Could it be an attempt by GM to slow down Toyota?

 

[a6m5]

Anyway, I reckon this would be a good move if it goes through. Could it be an attempt by GM to slow down Toyota?

It's gotta be something to do with Toyota. Toyota and GM has a very long friendly relationship. For one of the G.M. VIPs to try to go on alliance with Nissan is almost unbelievable to me.

 

[YSSMAN]

Ah, but GM has said that they are no longer focused on being the top brand worldwide. To focus on sales alone is what has alienated their consumer base, thus they have decided to build cars people would want to buy in order to make money.

...Wow, and to think it took GM that long to figure it out again?

A GM partnership with Nissan-Renault would literally turn the whole industry upsidedown, given GM's strong performance in the truck and sports car market, and Nissan-Renault's strong presence with the passenger car markets. If they can work together it will be interesting to see what happens. Renault comes back to the US? The Urge goes into production? A Kappa car gets the VQ35?

 

[YSSMAN]

...More details today...

Renault's board of directors plans to meet today to discuss a possible partnership with General Motors. The news comes after major GM shareholder Kirk Kerkorian last week formally suggested to Renault-Nissan and GM that they form a three-way alliance. GM has already held one emergency board meeting, and more discussion is expected to follow. Also this morning, Nissan said its board of directors had approved exploratory discussions on the potential three-way alliance. Observers speculate that if Renault-Nissan buys only a modest share of General Motors — 20 percent as some rumors have suggested — then U.S. regulators could move quickly to approve the deal. However, if an "operation merger" is to take place, a major antitrust investigation could slow the deal. Meanwhile, some analysts expressed concerns about the idea. Japan's Daily Yomiuri warns that if a deal doesn't produce favorable effects, matters would only get worse. And Freep columnist Mark Phelan says the deal would do little to actually make GM's cars better.

Apparenlty Goshen is working hard on the deal (according to CNBC) and it will be before the end of the month before we know exactly whats going to happen.

 

[kjb]

It willed be interesting to see if this will happen. I wonder if they will try to package as a merger of equals ala Daimler and Chrysler?

 

[JCE]

Dude I'm actually excited! Could you imagine if GM gets to use some of Renaults and Nissans chassis to build ontop of? A GM version of the Verso, or a GM version of the Altima. Or a Nissan version of the Camaro (yea right).

 

[Roo09511]

lol A Nissan Camaro would be a phenominal thing. It would teach ricers about V8's.

 

[Poverty]

a domestics about handling.


What is the facisnation of looking down on import fans?

 

[Onikaze]

Domestic cars handle well, where have you been for the last decade?

Ricers are generally kids with more urge to show off than money or awareness of what taste is.

Ricing is about attracting stupid teenage girls, more or less.

The older the ricer, the sadder it gets.

Show cars are so absurd. "So I've got a full fiberglass interior mimicing the cockpit of a jet fighter." 'So what did you do to the engine?' "I put flashing strobe lights around it."

 

[JCE]

Show cars are idiocy in my opinion...unless you win actual MONEY for them they are worthless. Oh and the show cars that can't be driven? Those are a complete waste even if you DO win money. What's the point of a CAR if you can't drive it?

 

[LittleBahamut]

mmmm.... I can imagine the future of Corvettes...

2010 Corvette Z06 GT-R!!!!

Um. no...

I don't support the idea of GM merging with Nissan-Renault at all. It is GM's own fault that they are in trouble and its up to them on how to come back. If I were Nissan, I would let them suffer and let them get out of competition. I have lost interest in GM products ever since I see them having problems at my school. I don't need to own them to know, I see them have problems to know what I need to know about their product. GM products are great when they are out of the showroom, but after 1 year or so...they go downwards in reliability.

 

[Wolfe]

Let's not forget that GM makes what are arguably the best V-8's on earth right now.

Mileage, Compactness, Light Weight, Reliability, Gobs of Power, Easy to Work on.

You can't find that anywhere else.

This wouldn't be a one sided thing, as seems to be implied.

Remove "Mileage" from that list (the "amazing" mileage of GM V8's comes from the transmission, not the engine) and change "gobs of power" to "gobs of torque," and I won't argue.

Domestic cars handle well, where have you been for the last decade?

Sorry, Onikaze, but I can't really agree with this one 100% either.

I would say that domestic manufacturers have learned how to make a car handle well over the last decade, but they certainly haven't applied that knowledge to even a majority of their models.

Sure, the 'Vette, Viper, Focus, and Neon ACR/SRT4 (and maybe a handful of others that I can't think of) have handled well, but competent handling hasn't started becoming a staple in domestic showrooms until just recently.

For example, the '05 Mustang and Pontiac G6 handle well, but the previous Mustang and Grand Am/Grand Prix certainly didn't.

 

[a6m5]

Ah, but GM has said that they are no longer focused on being the top brand worldwide. To focus on sales alone is what has alienated their consumer base, thus they have decided to build cars people would want to buy in order to make money.

This is not directed to you, but to GM: This is what I call B.S. It is getting so deep in here, I'm going to need pair of boots.

Renault's board of directors plans to meet today to discuss a possible partnership with General Motors. The news comes after major GM shareholder Kirk Kerkorian last week formally suggested to Renault-Nissan and GM that they form a three-way alliance. GM has already held one emergency board meeting, and more discussion is expected to follow. Also this morning, Nissan said its board of directors had approved exploratory discussions on the potential three-way alliance. Observers speculate that if Renault-Nissan buys only a modest share of General Motors — 20 percent as some rumors have suggested — then U.S. regulators could move quickly to approve the deal.

Looks like I was right on this merger being about Renault and Nissan saving GM's butt, and then later getting stuff back in return. Just like Ford-Mazda in the 90's, Nissan-Renault in 2000-ish. GM doesn't want to merge with Nissan & Renault because they want to teach( ) others on how to build V-8's or sharing other knowhows. They want a merger, because they are bankrupt(figure of speech).

It willed be interesting to see if this will happen. I wonder if they will try to package as a merger of equals ala Daimler and Chrysler?

Actually, Daimler-Chrysler merger was not equal at all. Some Chrysler investors are calling it a hostile takeover.

lol A Nissan Camaro would be a phenominal thing. It would teach ricers about V8's.

I fail to see your point. I think we can all agree here that most "ricers" are interested in smaller displacement motors, not V-8's. If they needed to be taught about V-8's, they'd be looking at cars with bigger motor than V-6s. Or, are you implying that Nissan doesn't know how to build a V-8?

What is the facisnation of looking down on import fans?

There are always people like that. On both sides of the fence, really. Pathetic.

I don't support the idea of GM merging with Nissan-Renault at all. It is GM's own fault that they are in trouble and its up to them on how to come back. If I were Nissan, I would let them suffer and let them get out of competition.

Why not? Nissan nearly went belly up themselves. Nissan and Renault got together, and Renault decided to help out by investing in them. It would be hypocritical of Nissan to refuse to help GM, just to let them suffer, when they themselves received exactly the same kind of help from Renault.

 

[Jay]

I am still not fond of this at all, its great that Nissan/Renault can help out GM, but the talk in this thread of GM using Nissan platforms, Corvette GTR's (joke I know) scares the hell out of me.

 

[YSSMAN]

I think the majority of what would be happening would be technology sharing, presumably to stop Toyota from conquering the world's automobile markets. Things like GM's Two-Mode hybrid technology would given Nissan-Renault a reason NOT to buy Toyota's IMA system for the Altima Hybrid and presumable Renault Megane Hybrids, etc. It would also let Nissan and Renault use the OnStar systems in the vehicles, argueably one of the best features of any GM vehicle.

GM could benefit by learning a few things from Nissan-Renault's small engine programs, particularly that of diesel power, along with some new neat tricks for the V6 program, etc. GM could also benefit by having more Nissan-Renault engineerd parts under the hood of their cars as well, some that could replace relics of time long since past... The 3.5L V6, 3.9L V6, 4L80E, 4T60E, etc.

Granted, I don't want to see the two completely merge and become one singular company, but I think a strong partnership between the two would be beneficial for both sides (to some extent). But nothing is totally solid, and we could be quite a long time (think YEARS) away before a full merger could occour.