GM VS Ford

[Joey D]

How can that be?
GM: Chevy, GMC, Buick, Saturn, Daewoo, Cadillac, Saab, Hummer, and Pontiac.

Ford: Ford, Mercury, Lincoln, Jaguar, Land Rover, Aston Martin, Mazda, and Volvo.

Main selling companies for GM in the US: GMC, Chevy, Pontiac, Buick, Cadilliac, Hummer, Saab. No one buys Daewoo's and the only way you buy an Isuzu is if you buy a panel truck.

Main selling companies for Ford in the US: Ford, Mercury, Lincoln, Volvo, Mazda. Aston is elite, Jag's are up there as well, and same goes for Land Rover.

If any truck is outdated it's GM's current lineup. And UNTIL the new breed of GM trucks comes out the F-series is still superior...thing is even if the new GM trucks comes out Ford will still outsell it because the F-series is the best selling vehicle ever in history. And until GM outsells the F-series it will continue to be this way.

Yup the GMT800 line is pretty much crap compared to other trucks on the road, for there time they were awesome but a change was due 2-3 years ago. But the Tundra is still a better truck then anything else you can buy right now. The GMT900 will be good and I expect it to be better then the F-Series, but I think the new Tundra will own all of them again.

The Suburan/Tahoe/Yukon I put in the same catagory because they are basically the same (and the XL models of the Tahoe/Yukon ARE Suburbans underneath) and they DO compete with the Explorer. The Explorer for several years now is just as large as the Suburban and the new Tahoe/Yukon is the same relitive size. The Expedition is completely useless, and I expect Ford to kill it off soon like they did with the Excursion.

The Explorer doesn't compare with anything from the 900 platform, they compare with everything from the 360 platform...meaning Trailblazer, Envoy, Rainer, that Saab thing, and that Isuzu thing. The Expedition is based off a F-series platform meaning it goes up again the 900 platform, meaning that the Expedition sucks in comparision.

You can't be serious, rebadged Daewoos win the arguement here. I think your GM bias is a little overpowering your judgement. I do like some GM products and hate some Ford products so my bias is quite a bit less vs yours. If anything I'm biased towards anything European/Japanese/Australian. While the Focus isn't the best Ford hatch (Mazda3 wins that) it's not the worst hatch in America by far. The Aveo is followed by the new Calibur. While Golfs are fantastic--they are also more expensive--but they are worth it. Now for something you do not realize, Ford Motor Credit like GMAC has a "new buyer" program and what that means is the Focus is part of that "new buyer" program...the dealers won't stick that on a more expensive car like a V6 Mustang or Fusion. VAG doesn't have such a program in this aspect so the Golf is out of the price range of "new buyers". I got turned down twice for a base Jetta and Golf but got 2 car loans from FMC back to back. 2 wins for me.

When did I say anything about Daewoo's? The only rebadged Daewoo is the Aveo, which is utter trash next to the likes of the Scion xA and the upcoming and sweet ass Fit. The Cobalt is a car based off an Opel platform...meaning it's decent.

The Caliber is one of the worst hatchbacks according to Car and Driver's artilce in their latest issue. In fact here is the list.

7. Suzuki Reno
6. Dodge Caliber
5. Hyundai Accent
4. Toyota Yaris (awesome little car)
3. Kia Rio
2. Nissan Versa
1. Honda Fit

Honestly if you want an awesome compact car with a good deal for new buyer, you should get a Scion, a Toyota at heart.

The European spec Focus IS better that the US-spec I believe but--that doesn't automatically say the current Focus is crap. I could come up with the same arguement for something GM but I won't--we're beating a dead horse here and I won't comment any further about the Focus issue. I'm finished with this part of the discussion since neither one of us will sway the opinion there is no point in continuing it.

But you can't because what GM can bring over then do, Saturn will be Opel in a few years (good move). There are a lot more Euro based GM's then Fords.

There you go again, saying something is crap is an opinion and that can't be the reason why you don't see them. Granted there are better cars in this segment but seriously anything that's Volvo derrived is NOT by ANY means crap. It happens to suffer from the exact same stigma as the Camry--point A to B comfy safe reliable driving.

People don't buy the 500 because it's trash compared to the likes of the Camry and Accord. Plus you don't have to deal with the car falling apart on you if you buy something from Japan. No Ford lot around me even has a 500 for me to go look at. How do they expect to sell something I can't even look at?


But my point is Ford isn't better then GM, in fact they are worse. But both are crap when you compare them to the likes of Honda and Toyota, which build better cars and with the exclusion of the Ridgeline, better trucks. American car makers need to step it up if they want to beat the likes of their Asian competitors. GM is trying to step up their game but they have an idiot at the helm (Wagner) and idiot minions putting the cars together (UAW).

And who would've thought they'd see me bad mouth American cars .

 

[Dave A]

All Daewoo's are rebadged over here, every Daewoo is a Cheverolet. Kind of not doing Chevy and image favours, especially when trying to sell rhd Vette's to people driving on the left.

Over here Ford is far, far better than GM, over in the US I wouldn't know, same goes for Asia and so on. But here in Europe I can state, Ford does a hell of a lot better than GM across the board.

And no, there are far more Ford's and Ford owned car's on the road over here, the only common GM car's are Opel/Vauxhall's for us and the Vectra doesn't sell as well as the Mondeo, the Astra get's out sold to the Focus by over 2/1 and the Corsa get's out sold by the Fiesta and that's before you start taking into account the car's from Mazda and vovlvo (both popular here). Other than that we get Daewoo albeit with a Chevy badge (not highly rated car's) and we get Saab, great car's imo but well outsold by Volvo which are imo also great car's.

 

[Joey D]

That explains why so many Europeans hate GM, Daewoo's pretty much suck.

 

[Dave A]

It's not so much a hate, it's a lack of respect, because we don't get anything from GM to respect. You get people like m who are more aware of the differences of what's on offer here and in other places and know more about models, I have more respect for a lot of them, but if I said I had as high an opinion of US car's in general as European car's in general, I'd be telling a lie, but I think that's a general trend you'll see in any region.

 

[Joey D]

Except in America, you'll more then likely find someone who likes Japanese cars over American cars, but as of late I can see what they are talking about.

 

[a6m5]

Oh, god. If I see a Daewoo name one more time, I think I'll throw up. Oh, I just did!

I prefer Ford over GM, mainly due to designs. Focus is outdated and the first ones looked better, but I still might buy it because it's so much cheaper than Honda Fit, which is my first choice. They are known to handle real well also, which is very important to me. Fusion's another great car. I didn't think much of them until I saw one up close. Very, very handsome cars, just needs new grill and tail light.

 

[Master_Yoda]

Oh, god. If I see a Daewoo name one more time, I think I'll throw up. Oh, I just did!

I prefer Ford over GM, mainly due to designs. Focus is outdated and the first ones looked better, but I still might buy it because it's so much cheaper than Honda Fit, which is my first choice. They are known to handle real well also, which is very important to me. Fusion's another great car. I didn't think much of them until I saw one up close. Very, very handsome cars, just needs new grill and tail light.

My sister has a 05' Focus, and she loves it. Other then the fact that it has gone to be fixed up like 3 times as much as are Honda. It;s a fun cheap little car.

 

[Joey D]

Oh, god. If I see a Daewoo name one more time, I think I'll throw up. Oh, I just did!

I prefer Ford over GM, mainly due to designs. Focus is outdated and the first ones looked better, but I still might buy it because it's so much cheaper than Honda Fit, which is my first choice. They are known to handle real well also, which is very important to me. Fusion's another great car. I didn't think much of them until I saw one up close. Very, very handsome cars, just needs new grill and tail light.

Buy a Fit, I mean come on this one should be a no brainer. You'll make up the difference in cost by merely saving on the repair bill with the Focus.

 

[a6m5]

I don't want to hijack the tread, but to explain quickly: I have no doubt that Fit is a far supreme car, it comes down to the $$$. Fit I want would cost around $17,000 and discount will be super tough to pull off, since the car is new and demand is great. Focus(ZX-5), I'm pretty sure I can get for around $14,000, with even more options than Fit Sport. I get D-Plan discount, so it might get even cheaper. I'm still looking around. Heck, I still haven't ruled out Scion xB.

 

[JCE]

I don't want to hijack the tread, but to explain quickly: I have no doubt that Fit is a far supreme car, it comes down to the $$$. Fit I want would cost around $17,000 and discount will be super tough to pull off, since the car is new and demand is great. Focus(ZX-5), I'm pretty sure I can get for around $14,000, with even more options than Fit Sport. I get D-Plan discount, so it might get even cheaper. I'm still looking around. Heck, I still haven't ruled out Scion xB.

The Fit IS a fantastic little car and has as much space as my ZX5 Focus but costs about the same with similar options...with the Fit being slightly more expensive. But as far as base models go the Focus has the Fit beat. But for the same money as a Focus you can get the Mazda3 which is faster, looks better, and doesn't have the stigma of being a ricer car. If I had a choice I'd choose using your D-plan on the Mazda3. I get a D-plan myself and will be using it on my next car purchase unless I find a good deal on something German or of the Pontiac GTO variety.

*edit*
I drove the Scion tC a little while ago and love that car...Scion's got a good gem there. The looks are fabulous and the interior is quite good. The xA and xB don't really appeal to me but they are good quality for the tiny bit money you spend on them.

 

[Wolfe]

I don't like either of them. Although I like the Corvette better than the Mustang, Ford's other products, most notably their European/Japanese ones, are simply better-engineered, so I voted for Ford.

 

[SRV2LOW4ME]

I chose GM, and I based my opinion an overall outlook of the company from their start to present. Although Ford has created some great cars (Mustang, Thunderbird, etc.) and in my opinion some of the best trucks/SUV's the auto industry has ever seen (Bronco, F150, Explorer, etc.), GM's size and diversity has helped them produce some of the greatest cars to hit our streets. Although they may be lacking in the style and performance department in todays automobiles, their past creations have become icons of the auto world. Camaro, GTO, Escalade, Blazer (not the little gay things of modern day, I mean the real Blazer from the 60's and 70's), Firebird, and many others are only a few of the great vehicles to roll out of GM's plants, and thats what I think of when I hear the letters G and M. 👍

P.S. Cavaliers still suck

 

[YSSMAN]

Where are you guys getting your prices on the Fit from? The baisic Fit starts just over $13,000 while the Fit Sport starts just over $15,000. Fully loaded, I don't even think they cross the $17,000 mark (maybe just barely), but overall you are buying a car that comes with more (and better) standard features, is built a helluva lot better, is more efficent with fuel, and outhandles the Focus by about 110%.

...Mind you, with the Rabbit staring at $14,990 and coming with similar options to the Fit Sport to start, the Vee Dub could be next for me.

About the Fusion: Again, it isn't a bad car, but underneath it is a Mazda6, and thats all. It looks pretty, sure, and the interior is a little more tasteful, but thats about it. Meh.....!

About the Scion tC: I'm not a fan. I think the car is way too overpriced, generally underperforms, and the overall quality rating is maybe a 7 or 8 on a scale of 10. IMO: The Cobalt SS Coupe (sans Supercharger) is a far better deal, offers more equipment for a lower price, and performs better overall. Sure, my GM stripes may be showing, but I just was not impressed with the tC. Maybe if the car was $2000 cheaper and about 300 lighter it might be a "must have" in my book.

 

[a6m5]

Where are you guys getting your prices on the Fit from? The baisic Fit starts just over $13,000 while the Fit Sport starts just over $15,000. Fully loaded, I don't even think they cross the $17,000 mark (maybe just barely), but overall you are buying a car that comes with more (and better) standard features, is built a helluva lot better, is more efficent with fuel, and outhandles the Focus by about 110%.

It's the Fit I want, with some options and destination charge. I haven't decided on wheels, but the optional 16" rims are nice. 👍

About the Fusion: Again, it isn't a bad car, but underneath it is a Mazda6, and thats all. It looks pretty, sure, and the interior is a little more tasteful, but thats about it. Meh.....!

I don't know about "that's all". I've heard good things about the 6. I also read that it was either wider or longer, maybe both, but it was a lot smaller than I thought. I love the contour of the front end. If I was purchasing another midsize, I just might go for it. I'd change out the grills though.

 

[JCE]

Where are you guys getting your prices on the Fit from? The baisic Fit starts just over $13,000 while the Fit Sport starts just over $15,000. Fully loaded, I don't even think they cross the $17,000 mark (maybe just barely), but overall you are buying a car that comes with more (and better) standard features, is built a helluva lot better, is more efficent with fuel, and outhandles the Focus by about 110%.

Having worked at a Honda dealer I can tell you that no dealer will MSRP it for a while--it will be marked up just like the new Civic was. No Fit will sell to any normal person for $13k guaranteed. And care to post official US specs on the Fit against it's rivals so we can have an accurate comparo? It most certinaly does not "outhandle by about 110%" anything.

I don't know about "that's all". I've heard good things about the 6. I also read that it was either wider or longer, maybe both, but it was a lot smaller than I thought. I love the contour of the front end. If I was purchasing another midsize, I just might go for it. I'd change out the grills though.

The Fusion's actually 4 inches longer because of the stretched 6 frame. So more cabin space basically. The only things I want to do to my future Black V6 SEL Fusion I plan on buying is smoking the taillights a healthy grey to remove the rice look and spray the chrome grille the same black color as the car. I think it would look mean then...

 

[red70mach1]

I'm a Ford guy, but I have seen the lineup change so much that I have to look elsewhere for my first new car. The other manufacturers caught up with Ford so much that they took a gamble to make cars that remind me of GM in the 80's. I'm sure ain't looking at GM unless its a Camaro, SSR, GTO, or CTS-V.

 

[Syntax error]

GM.... for one reason... HOLDEN, living in Australia you are either a holden man or a ford man, and im 100% holden!

Pfftt.... although I do prefer a HSV over an FPV (notice how I didn't say Ford or Holden), that said I'm not a fan of either really, and I'm looking forward to the day that the V8 supertaxi series gets it's act together an once again allows other manufactures to compete in the series... bunch of sore losers to kick out the competition when the couldn't scrap together a race win back in the late 80's early 90's.

That all said, Ford Europe does and has in the past built some fantastic cars, I’m just a little disturbed by the trend towards front wheel drive cars in general. Ford Australia on the other hand suffers from a real lack of build quality. Shame really, the F6 could have been a terrific car….

 

[TheCracker]

I'm a Ford man through and through, my Grandad had a Ford dealership so i suppose it springs from there.

To be honest, from a european perspective you'd really have to hate Ford to vote for GM in this poll. GM in europe means Vauxhall/Opel or SAAB - most europeans probably don't really consider SAAB as GM since it had it's heyday before the GM takeover and now all SAABs are bland re-bodied Opel's. The only memorable euro GM products in recent times have been either re-badged Holdens or re-bodied Lotuses, any others have been pretty unremarkable. The only none-Euro GM product that might catch the eye of a European would be the Vette, for years and years the Vette had a poor reputation in europe - only the latest C6 has done anything to alter this opinion.

Ford on the other hand, have a history of producing decent products that are generally the best in their class. They have a fantastic motorsport history and now have some great sport and luxury cars in their portfolio - Jag, Aston Martin & Range Rover.

But like i said - i'm a Ford man through & through

 

[a6m5]

Thanks to TheCracker, Ford has finally caught up. It's all tied up, 15-15. Getting pretty interesting......

 

[YSSMAN]

...No arguements here against Ford Europe. If they could sell some of their cars in the US, I could see a few GM guys jumping ship for cars like the Fiesta ST, Mondeo, etc. Same can be said for Ford Australia with the Falcon and the Fairlane.

Ford Europe played a different game than that of Ford North America, just look how long it took us to get the Escort, not even any of the good ones at that. We also never had the RS200, and the American Ford Fiesta? Jeff Foxworthy still makes fun of that...

 

[JCE]

The new Mondeo is actually quite a handsome car I think. I think Ford would win some points with older folks if they brought over the Fairlane from AUS. Australia has light years better car designs vs North America.

 

[Dave A]

I remember when the current Mondeo came out and it was road tested on Driven, they have a test where they put a glass of water in the cup holder and driver over this strip of road designed to test a car's ride quality, not a drop of the water spilled out, and the Mondeo was the first car they'd ever tested where that had happened, the stip of road was very rugged, so it had the water splashing all over the place in some car's.

 

[Jim Prower]

WHAT!

NO CHRYSLER OPTION!!!!

I am appalled!

 

[JCE]

I remember when the current Mondeo came out and it was road tested on Driven, they have a test where they put a glass of water in the cup holder and driver over this strip of road designed to test a car's ride quality, not a drop of the water spilled out, and the Mondeo was the first car they'd ever tested where that had happened, the stip of road was very rugged, so it had the water splashing all over the place in some car's.

I'd kill to get that review. I remember when TG did a similar test with the old BM 6-series, Mitsu coupe', and the Jag XJ (?). That competition was fun to watch.

 

[YSSMAN]

Who votes for Ford to ditch the Fivehundred in favor of the Fairlane?

 

[skip0110]

Who votes for Ford to ditch the Fivehundred in favor of the Fairlane?

In nameplate only? Or replace it with this terrible SUV concept thing?

Let the past rest in peace, I say.

 

[Joey D]

Who votes for Ford to ditch the Fivehundred in favor of the Fairlane?

I vote Ford ditches the 500 and comes out with something people actually buy.

 

[High-Test]

Wait... Fairlane... That thing Skip0110 posted or the sedan from the 60s?

 

[McLaren]

I only like some of cars Ford makes, and the companies they own.

But I'm a GM guy out of the 2 (Dodge out of the 3).
I love the new models GM has putout through all their branches.

 

[Master_Yoda]

I chose GM, and I based my opinion an overall outlook of the company from their start to present. Although Ford has created some great cars (Mustang, Thunderbird, Escalade, etc.)

But Ford did NOT make the Escalade, that was GM.... Unless Ford owns Cadilac