GM VS Ford

[YSSMAN]

No, I'm talking about the Ford AUS Fairlane sedan...

The 308HP Fairlane G8 is about the equal to $48,780.40 USD (a bit expensive I suppose), and offers the afformentioned 308HP 5.4L V8 and a 6-speed automatic transmission. This would be the compeditor to the Holden Statesman/Caprice, which will be comming to the US as the new Buick Invicta.

I suppose the Falcon would be a better replacement for the Fivehundred, in which the XR8 version sells for $38,282.90, about what you would pay for a fully-loaded Fivehundred. Of course, that Fivehundred doesent come with a 308HP V8... And you can order you Falcon (and Fairlane for that matter) with a smaller V6.

 

[skip0110]

Well, the Falcon is too small to replace the Five Hundred, it slots closer to the Fusion in size (I believe) even though is much more powerful. In any event, it will never pass rear crash requirements, so it will never come here.

The Fairlane would be a good Crown Vic replacement.

 

[Joey D]

Wow that thing looks like a Catera

 

[YSSMAN]

In the June issue of Car and Driver:

They have a drive of the Falcon F6 Turbo, FPV V8 Persuit, Falcon FPV GT BOSS 290, Territory Ghina AWD, and Focus ST (UK-Spec).

(sorry the photos are so out of focus and generally look like crap. I still need to buy a real digital camera, the problem is, that costs $$$$$$$ [viele geld!])

 

[Joey D]

You already got your June issue? Where the hell is mine!

 

[McLaren]

I got it today. The story shows 4 Fords (one a Ute), and talks about how they could save Ford, but not in America.

 

[Gil]

I'm a "Ford Guy" thru and thru.
That said, I own three Fords, Three Chevies, One "sorta" Chevy, a Honda, and a Toyota.

One of my Fords, (the '89 Probe) served somebody else well, before I turned my first three sons loose with it as their "trainer" car. It is, sadly, bound for the junk heap at this point. My third dumped it nose first into a ditch full of water, and it's finally given up going forwards. It goes backwards fine.
But any amount of money over 100 bucks to fix it is about 80 bucks more than I want to spend on it.
My "sorta" Chevy is a '92 Geo Storm, that is serving as the "trainer" for the younger three, and the daily driver for my third.

Any of the other cars, I'd feel comfortable changing the oil, filling the fluids, and taking off on a cross-country jaunt.
"Big E" (the Excursion) would be my first choice, followed closely by my Camry. The others, no real clear winner on the third place spot.

Any more, it's not so much a matter of what is "better". It's a matter of what you prefer.

 

[YSSMAN]

I got it today. The story shows 4 Fords (one a Ute), and talks about how they could save Ford, but not in America.

The point of the article was to show what cars that are sold elsewhere can be sold here, and thus save Ford in the US. I think their arguement for the Falcon is well justified, esp. when the Impala, Grand Prix, Monte Carlo, and LaCrosse will be going RWD for 2008/2009. Ford needs a mid-size RWD sedan, and the Falcon is the best thing they have...

 

[skip0110]

Arbitrarily shifting from FWD to RWD or vice versa is not enough to turn a brand around. Honda does just fine in the US selling an almost 100% transverse, FWD or FWD-biased AWD line. What Ford needs is refinement and quailty that can stop them from selling by discounts.

 

[YSSMAN]

But here is the catch: People who buy Hondas and Accords are simply looking to get from point at to point be without having fun, without getting noticed. On the opposite side of the spectrum, cars like the 300C, Charger, Mustang, GTO, etc. sell in outrageous numbers (okay maybe not for the GTO) because they look unique, drive uniquely, and surpasses any Honda or Toyota in the fun to drive category.

American companies need to build cars that Americans want to drive, and the main part of those who are still buying American cars want big, moderately efficent, RWD coupes and sedans with V6s and V8s.

Of course, as you said, no one car can turn an entire company around... But one car to start a revolution can, and that is something the Mustang and 300C together have done. They have sparked interest in American cars again because they are building American cars! Weve been waiting so long to catch up to the Japanese by building clones of their cars (poorly) all while getting away with what made the American car great: Good looks, high power, low price.

Give it about a year, we will see what happens. The word has been that Ford is working on an enlarged version of the Mustang's platform to underpin a new RWD sedan to compete with the upcomming RWD Impala and Invicta, as well as the soon-to-be updated 300C. Ford needs RWD, bad... The next step from there is going to be for Ford to develop a cheap, efficent V8 with DOD technology, capable of giving the car near 30MPG on the highway... But with Ford being Ford, who knows?

 

[Joey D]

People don't care what drivetrain there car is for the most part. Sure there are some people who what either FWD or RWD, but for the most part people don't care, if they did you'd see more drivetrain specific vehicles.

 

[Jay]

Wow that thing looks like a Catera

Not suprisingly, its still a Omega platformed car with an extended wheelbase.

Hopefully they will be replaced soon aswell as that Fairlane, they are getting real old.


BTW I highly doubt the US will be getting that Omega based Statesman at all, if they do get rebadged Statesman it will most likely be the upcoming Zeta based Statesman. (unless they decide to drag on the Omega Statesman which I really hope now.)

 

[a6m5]

I don't think Hondas are "Point A to B" vehicle at all. While they are not rear wheel driven, V-8 muscle car, they can be a blast to drive on windy road. While front wheel drive annoys many enthusiasts, there are a lot of us who love the stability it offers on wet pavements. Give and take?, certainly. I don't think FWD = Boring though.

P.S. Not really related, but interesting story on Autobahn I read long time ago(I think it was Road&Track). In a interview, Autobahn cops were telling the reporter that some of them were suggesting FWD pursuit vehicles, because RWD cars were too dangerous at times on wet. Just something I remembered from long ago. Please don't turn it into FWD=Wrong Wheel Drive discussion.

 

[Wolfe]

People don't care what drivetrain there car is for the most part. Sure there are some people who what either FWD or RWD, but for the most part people don't care, if they did you'd see more drivetrain specific vehicles.

Did you not read YSSMAN's post? Americans have been yearning for big, bold, powerful, V8 RWD cars for years -- that's why the 300C and Mustang sell so well, and why the SUV's popularity rose as the availability of big, bold, powerful, V8 RWD cars declined.

I wouldn't argue with you if you said that a lot of people only think they want RWD, but the market demand is there.

Please don't turn it into FWD=Wrong Wheel Drive discussion.

As much as I'd like to refute your points, we already have such a discussion going in the Official BMW E92 Coupe pics thread.

 

[Jay]

People don't care what drivetrain there car is for the most part. Sure there are some people who what either FWD or RWD, but for the most part people don't care, if they did you'd see more drivetrain specific vehicles.

Holden and Ford Australia would lose a huge amount of customers if they went FWD. They stick with RWD and have that large selling point over here over Toyota Camry's and Mitsubishi Magna's.

 

[Dave A]

People don't care what drivetrain there car is for the most part. Sure there are some people who what either FWD or RWD, but for the most part people don't care, if they did you'd see more drivetrain specific vehicles.

Hey, you just described the UK .

 

[amp88]

Ford (Europe) for giving us the Lotus Cortina, Sierra and Escort Cosworths, Focus RS and all other sporty Fords.

 

[Joey D]

Go ask the average 35 year old man who drives 25 miles to work one way, you know what he wants? Comfort, milage, and reliabilty, not a big V8 and RWD. If he is an outdoorsmen, he'll say a truck though. But really most people do not care what drivetrain their vehicle is, especially women. My mom had no idea what drivetrain the Pacifica even was.

The market demend for RWD is small, hence why just about everything is FWD. Unless you are an automotive enthusist you really don't care. You want something cheap and relialbe, that's why the Camry sells so well and that's what things like the Accord and Civic do as well. Most people only want RWD sports car and truck based applications.

 

[TheCracker]

Hey, you just described the UK .

The joys of over-steer happy RWD are lost in traffic jams

 

[Jim Prower]

Better than Falcon or Commodore. or anything else from Ford or GM in it's class.

(Sorry, but when it comes to Ford VS GM, I always choose the other one.)

 

[SRV2LOW4ME]

But Ford did NOT make the Escalade, that was GM.... Unless Ford owns Cadilac

Sorry, I had added that one in last and had meant to put it in with the GM's.

 

[JCE]

No, I'm talking about the Ford AUS Fairlane sedan...

The 308HP Fairlane G8 is about the equal to $48,780.40 USD (a bit expensive I suppose), and offers the afformentioned 308HP 5.4L V8 and a 6-speed automatic transmission. This would be the compeditor to the Holden Statesman/Caprice, which will be comming to the US as the new Buick Invicta.

That Fairlane is what I was talking about too. That thing is real nice, and has style. Ford does need at least ONE V8 RWD saloon--if they don't get a new one out by the end of next year they'll be passed by GM and DC. I don't count the Crown Vic because it sells 90% to Police municipalities and very old people...and the non-P71 models are hideously underpowered and slow.

 

[Poverty]

Damn Ive missed alot.

 

[YSSMAN]

...BX, surprisingly I dissagree with you. A lot of people are looking to buy these RWD V6 and V8 sedans or coupes because it was like what they drove when they were kids, or like what their parents had... Nestalgia (sp?) is what is driving the American market as it seems, esp. that of the American car market.

I completely agree that there are plenty of folks who wouldn't even know that the Charger is RWD or the Camry is FWD, nor would they care... But what it comes down to is how good they look in the car, and how good the car looks on the outside. People are buying Chargers and 300s because they DONT look like the spaceship Camrys and Accords, and they want to be different that the Finkelsteins next door in their Prius.

 

[Joey D]

I still think a majority of a market doesn't care one way or another. You'll always get the people who want a certian drivetrain for a certian reason, but I still think most don't care. Personally I don't really care one way or another, just as long as trucks stay RWD, but if FWD makes the car cheaper I'm all for it.

 

[Ghost C]

Obviously GM.

As far as market popularity goes, for the luxury segment at least, Ford may as well not even exist. I see at least 10 Cadillacs for every 1 Lincoln.

And anyone talking about the Fusion, do you want to know why it sells? Because the design is a direct ripoff of a CTS, with the taillights from a 96 Accord.

 

[JCE]

Like I told BX just because YOU see more of X vehicle than Y vehicle in your location doesn't mean it is this way all around the country--and thus can't really be used as evidence. Case in point, I see as many Town cars here as any DTS/STS. And I see just as many Navigators as Escalades in my location--what does that mean...nothing. If Ford didn't exist we would only be driving German cars--well maybe that's not so bad. And the Fusion looks a hell of alot better than the CTS in exterior styling--the CTS is way too tall. Granted, I hate the chrome strip along the taillights and I dislike the chrome color on the grille on the Fusion--BUT the rest of the car is top notch. And those imperfections can be easily remedied. The one thing I will give GM the better mark on is utilizing DOD and looking to put DOD in more engines for more models...this is where Ford is falling behind. The next Ford V8 generation really needs DOD in my opinion.

 

[Joey D]

You're kidding right? If you see more of one car then another that's a pretty good indication on what is selling and I'm telling you Ford doesn't sell nearly as well as GM products do. The only thing Ford sells well is in fact F-Series and Crown Victoria's with Police and Taxi packages attached to them.

The Fusion is a decent car, better then the horrificly aged Taraus it replaced. I think it looks like crap though with its big goofy chrom grill and "altezza" tail lights. The CTS is a much better designed car, and I'm not the only one who thinks that, several automotive magazines think the same thing.

And I can't see how you see more Town Cars and Navigators, it's no contest when it comes to these vehicles which one is better, the Cadillac STS is by far much more superior then the Town Car will ever be and the Navigators doesn't stand a snow ball's chance in hell of even comparing to the Escalade.

 

[a6m5]

Obviously GM.

As far as market popularity goes, for the luxury segment at least, Ford may as well not even exist. I see at least 10 Cadillacs for every 1 Lincoln.

And anyone talking about the Fusion, do you want to know why it sells? Because the design is a direct ripoff of a CTS, with the taillights from a 96 Accord.

I'd concur that Caddys are better than Lincoln, but I don't agree with your take on Fusion at all. I just googled and looked at few pictures of both cars, you are definitely right about the taillights(maybe the headlights from the last Preludes as well?), but I still don't think they copied CTS.

Edit:

The Fusion is a decent car, better then the horrificly aged Taraus it replaced. I think it looks like crap though with its big goofy chrom grill and "altezza" tail lights. The CTS is a much better designed car, and I'm not the only one who thinks that, several automotive magazines think the same thing.

While I totally agree with you on the grill and ugly taillights, I like Fusion's design better than CTS's also. While CTS is a better overall design, IMO, it has bit of an "love it or hate it" style. Just not my cup of tea.

 

[JCE]

You're kidding right? If you see more of one car then another that's a pretty good indication on what is selling and I'm telling you Ford doesn't sell nearly as well as GM products do.

Wait, just re-read my post(s) again. I said what sells in your LOCAL area isn't what the ENTIRE COUNTRY does. And my points about Lincoln and Cadillac are from MY local area to prove my point.

The Fusion is a decent car, better then the horrificly aged Taraus it replaced. I think it looks like crap though with its big goofy chrom grill and "altezza" tail lights. The CTS is a much better designed car, and I'm not the only one who thinks that, several automotive magazines think the same thing.

Actually it does not have Altezza lights. If you stand next to one in real life you'll notice that it's not "white out clear" lights but it's actually a chrome strip inside the plastic surrounding the taillight structure. Taillights and chrome grille aside (the CTS has an ugly grille and taillights too BTW) the CTS just looks odd in non V trim. The V trim add more substance and style and it isn't as noticable that the car is too tall. If you SVT, Roush, or Shelby the Fusion it will definately out look the CTS-V. Probably won't be faster (almost certain it won't be unless they V8+RWD it) but would look much better (it already does IMO).

And I can't see how you see more Town Cars and Navigators, it's no contest when it comes to these vehicles which one is better, the Cadillac STS is by far much more superior then the Town Car will ever be and the Navigators doesn't stand a snow ball's chance in hell of even comparing to the Escalade.

I didn't say one was BETTER than the other I simply used the statement to prove my point about location. If having to choose between the two I'd opt out and choose something else or walk. I don't like either of these two brands--and Cadillac without the V series is absolutely rubbish when put in the same catagory as Lexus, Infinity, BMW, Audi, Jaguar, and Mercedes. And since Lincoln has no super performance trim for any model they can't be compaired to Cadillac and the others I mentioned--and why doesn't Lincoln do anything exciting? Why did they jackup the Fusion and Five Hundred? Because old people are the 95% owners of these cars and want "nothing of the sort" when it comes to performance. Case in point, the Cobalt and Focus out accelerate the Town Car to about 75 or 80mph. Enough said.

See the thing is if it was a Europe only vote Ford wins by a landslide, if it was only a North American vote it would be like it is right now--neck and neck only because we don't get the excellent Euro Fords. I guarantee you that if we had the Euro Focus, Fiesta, and at least 1 Aussie Ford ... GM wouldn't stand a chance here in North America.