Good Project car between $5K & $15K?

[McLaren]

At this point, I'm only "drawing" out these plans, but I've wanted to know for a while now if it would be worth getting a cheap car for tracking, and building into one. Of course, I don't mean build as from a body to a fully-working car, but more in the terms of a cheap car into something trackable.
Now, I could do with this with the TL and the 3, but due to the fact that both cars are on a lease, I simply can not drive either car extremely hard that a track event would do. If I do push them, I can assure you the dealers will try to charge me to replace a "worn" part, whether it truly is worn or not.

So, I'm looking (or in better terms, hypothesizing) for a little car I could modify into a track machine.

1. Between $5K & $15K
2. Not a Porsche (944 possibly), Camaro, or Mustang, nor Convertible.
3. More after a sedan, but coupe is welcome.
4. No more than 170,000 miles max.
5. Between 1985 & 2002.
6. NOT looking for an economy-based cars, i.e. Civic, Accord, etc.

That's basically it. I'm open to all kinds of cars, but I'd prefer a European by any means before Japanese, and that before a Domestic. The car does not have to be a higher model either. I'm open to base model cars like 325i's, or small Mercedes classes.

Again, this is only for thinking. I'm not saying I'm actually going to do this, but if I can narrow it down to a car, I can work out a more reasonable way of paying for it.
I do ask though that you don't just suddenly say, "Impreza WRX, BMW M3, or Camaro SS!" These are fine to pick, but think outside the box. I'd want this to be a car that was somewhat sporty, turned into a car that is by all means, performance-oriented.

 

[Kent]

My suggestion is to avoid taking a some-what sporty car and trying to make it performance oriented.
Although you may save money on the semi-sporty car, the truth is that you will have a hard time making up for the basics that cars like the M3 already have in stock form.

My suggestion to you would be 240Z. Plenty of parts and rear-wheel drive. 👍
I'd say the 3 series is a better pick but I am guessing the parts will be more expensive.

 

[Keef]

Building a base E36 would be fun I think. They're well designed for performance to begin with and have much potential.

Anyway, why are you trying to avoid Japanese cars? Are you looking for the quality of a European car? If you want a track machine you should remember to get something really light. Which makes me wonder what you mean by "track machine". The word "sleeper" doesn't have much credit on the track, and sedans are generally heavier than their coupe counterparts. I don't see how practicality and track machine go together...

My suggestion is to avoid taking a some-what sporty car and trying to make it performance oriented.
Although you may save money on the semi-sporty car, the truth is that you will have a hard time making up for the basics that cars like the M3 already have in stock form.

I can't say I agree with this. He says he wants to build a car. He doesn't want a fast car, and then put a spoiler on the back. When I hear build, I think replacing the crappy, econo suspension with performance tuned parts, light wheels, grippy tires, chassis braces, engine and drivetrain upgrades. It's nice being able to spank M3s in your 325. Or...a 350Z in a Civic without power steering? Yeah. That's building a car.

 

[1X83Z]

E36 M3. There's a reason we throw these out right away.

C36/C43 AMG too, but they're automatic-only.

 

[McLaren]

My suggestion is to avoid taking a some-what sporty car and trying to make it performance oriented.
Although you may save money on the semi-sporty car, the truth is that you will have a hard time making up for the basics that cars like the M3 already have in stock form.

Good point. An M3 would already be a strong competitor, and turning it into in a competitive machine would take very little time than I'd like to actually spend with it as I want it to be a car I can modify over time, not 2 months.

My suggestion to you would be 240Z. Plenty of parts and rear-wheel drive. 👍
I'd say the 3 series is a better pick but I am guessing the parts will be more expensive.

Aren't 240Z's though getting ridiculously hard to find, and afford due to rarity? I've rarely seen one for sale, and they all seem be wanted for their uniqueness.

Building a base E36 would be fun I think. They're well designed for performance to begin with and have much potential.

The E36 was my first choice, but I'm trying to broaden the horizon.

Anyway, why are you trying to avoid Japanese cars? Are you looking for the quality of a European car? If you want a track machine you should remember to get something really light. Which makes me wonder what you mean by "track machine". The word "sleeper" doesn't have much credit on the track, and sedans are generally heavier than their coupe counterparts. I don't see how practicality and track machine go together...

Oh, I didn't mean I don't want a Japanese machine. Many like the one Kent pointed out would be fine. It's just I'd prefer a European car, but a Japanese car is fine. This car though, isn't going to be about practicality though. I'd have 2 other cars for such things.

As for the sedan, I just sort of want to turn a sedan into a track machine. But again, a coupe would always do.

I can't say I agree with this. He says he wants to build a car. He doesn't want a fast car, and then put a spoiler on the back. When I hear build, I think replacing the crappy, econo suspension with performance tuned parts, light wheels, grippy tires, chassis braces, engine and drivetrain upgrades. It's nice being able to spank M3s in your 325. Or...a 350Z in a Civic without power steering? Yeah. That's building a car.

That's pretty much it. Again, an M3 would be great and I wouldn't mind it, but that car just wouldn't need much. It'd probably do fine on its own stock.

E36 M3. There's a reason we throw these out right away.

C36/C43 AMG too, but they're automatic-only.

Transmission doesn't bother me at all.

 

[Loon]

How about an S13? Still relatively cheap with after market parts galore.

 

[Keef]

Yes, the transmission does bother you. It does. This car must be manual. Not about practicality? Get something light. Something with a good suspension design, if pedestrian tuning. Something with a great aftermarket backing. Something with powertrain options out the wazoo. Something simple. Something inexpensive.

See where this is going? Japan. That's where it's going.

Buy an SVT Focus. You'll adore it's handling prowess and you'll love the engine once you slap a big JR blower on it.

More basic? A 240, like Loon mentioned, is always a fun, if an unreliable and oil-burning choice. Miatas are fun but brittle. Civics are just badass all around. You would not believe the potential an old B13 Sentra has. Very light, good cars.

 

[Azuremen]

SVT Focus is a pretty impressive car.

If this is a track car, why do you care if its more of a sedan? Get an MR-2 Spyder, hard top on it, 2ZZ-GE in the back, and you'll have a slightly heavier Elise basically. Or you could go with the Mk1 MR2, which is a capable car with a small amount put into it.

Or, if you must have the manly power, Mk2 Turbo MR2.

There are also the Celica All-Tracs, which have alot of potential.

Or Datsun 510, but those are old school

 

[1X83Z]

You're right, transmission does matter. So make sure to go for the best one.

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.j...8&doors=&transmission=&max_price=&cardist=780

 

[High-Test]

SC 300? Those are fastlike, and receptive to turbo goodness.

 

[McLaren]

How about an S13? Still relatively cheap with after market parts galore.

Good suggestion, but they sort of fit what I told Kent. S13's aren't really popping up around here, and thanks to the popularity of street racing, they seem to go for pretty high prices. But it would be nice if I could find one.

Yes, the transmission does bother you. It does. This car must be manual. Not about practicality? Get something light. Something with a good suspension design, if pedestrian tuning. Something with a great aftermarket backing. Something with powertrain options out the wazoo. Something simple.

See where this is going?

Buy an SVT Focus. You'll adore it's handling prowess and you'll love the engine once you slap a big JR blower on it.

Although you have a valid point, I don't want to be too picky on this. Autos make up 85% of the used market here, and 5% of that are sports cars. I'm not looking to get every little thing I want in the car, or say "No deal."

As for the SVT Focus, it's the 1 Ford I'd consider. I am not really looking for FWD even though it will have a great advantage, but it would be one of many exceptions.

On the practicality note, I would like a few comforts as the nearest track events will take 45 minutes to over an hour to get to. Comforts such as Radio, seats, A/C, and perhaps even a small sound system (as in 2 small speakers, not something like 3 subs in the trunk. A waste for a project car).

 

[Keef]

My buddy's 1992 Civic Si has air conditioning, a sunroof, power steering, 4 speaker stereo, a tailgate, plenty of stuff room, okay room for 4 people...but manual windows and locks.

And it weighs a hefty 2300 pounds.

I agree with Cody, also, that any MR2 is a fantastic track car. Celicas can be built nicely.




Doug, you know that Benz is an awful, unreliable, overcomplex, bloated, sloppy pig of a performance car.

 

[Azuremen]

Good suggestion, but they sort of fit what I told Kent. S13's aren't really popping up around here, and thanks to the popularity of street racing, they seem to go for pretty high prices. But it would be nice if I could find one.


Although you have a valid point, I don't want to be too picky on this. Autos make up 85% of the used market here, and 5% of that are sports cars. I'm not looking to get every little thing I want in the car, or say "No deal."

As for the SVT Focus, it's the 1 Ford I'd consider. I am not really looking for FWD even though it will have a great advantage, but it would be one of many exceptions.

On the practicality note, I would like a few comforts as the nearest track events will take 45 minutes to over an hour to get to. Comforts such as Radio, seats, A/C, and perhaps even a small sound system (as in 2 small speakers, not something like 3 subs in the trunk. A waste for a project car).

As is a radio, AC, and such. My MR2 has sound system from the previous owner I have left in there, because when I got it, it was my only car.

You MUST go with a manual transmission if it can be found on that model. The difference is huge when doing autocross and so on. So, if I was you, I would say "no Deal" instantly.

What type of racing type stuff do you plan on doing anyhow? And how much wrenching are you willing to do?

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

-> How about an AE86 or an 2001 AP1 S2000? I bet you can get a decent AE86 between 1,500 to 5,000, and the AP1 right around 12,000 to 15,000. If its a sedan a nice late-90 540i M/T especially with the M-Sport kit.

 

[Joey D]

Or Datsun 510, but those are old school

Datsun 510, you can get one off eBay for less then a grand.

 

[McLaren]

SVT Focus is a pretty impressive car.

If this is a track car, why do you care if its more of a sedan?

You could call it an "automotive fetish". I just really like the idea of turning a sedan into a performance machine. Spanking sporty coupes in a 4-door car just seems like fun.

Get an MR-2 Spyder, hard top on it, 2ZZ-GE in the back, and you'll have a slightly heavier Elise basically. Or you could go with the Mk1 MR2, which is a capable car with a small amount put into it.

Or, if you must have the manly power, Mk2 Turbo MR2.

There are also the Celica All-Tracs, which have alot of potential.

Supras are never in the $15K bracket without high mileage or are older gen.s, so I've easily recognized MR2's as the next best choice. I've seen amazing aftermarket engine kits for them, and being a Mid-Engine makes it even more tempting. The only problem remains to find one.

Or Datsun 510, but those are old school

I had to look up the name to remember it, but now that I recognize it again, those would be awesome. I'd expect a lot of work though as I'm sure none are selling in my price bracket without some problems.

You're right, transmission does matter. So make sure to go for the best one.

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.j...8&doors=&transmission=&max_price=&cardist=780

This is exactly why the transmission isn't bothering me. This is the kind of sedan I'd love to build up. The auto doesn't hurt this car much at all, and I could easily see a great amount of performance potential in it.

BTW Doug, are there any Audi's that possibly fit what I'm looking for?

SC 300? Those are fastlike, and receptive to turbo goodness.

Good pick, but what is the potential for this model? Most of the ones I've seen are street racers, drag, or show cars. I've never seen one that was built for Auto-cross or track use.

 

[Joey D]

If you are looking for a project why even worry about the car's condition and problems?

 

[Keef]

What type of racing type stuff do you plan on doing anyhow? And how much wrenching are you willing to do?

This is called "Need to Know Information".

One reason cheap cars are awesome is because parts are...cheap. Racing, or even just track days, wear out parts in no time, and when you have to pay $200 for a set of massive brake pads on your 3 series or A4 you'll realize what you got yourself into. The smaller the tire, the cheaper it is. I pay less than $500 for high-end performance tires. Probably couldn't manage under $700 for a 17" diameter wheel, like the Euro cars. Tires and brakes will be the parts that wear quickest, and they're also the most important parts of a car. You mustn't skimp.

 

[Loon]

-> How about an AE86 or an 2001 AP1 S2000? I bet you can get a decent AE86 between 1,500 to 5,000, and the AP1 right around 12,000 to 15,000. If its a sedan a nice late-90 540i M/T especially with the M-Sport kit.

AE86's are a very rare car in the states.

Supras are never in the $15K bracket without high mileage or are older gen.s, so I've easily recognized MR2's as the next best choice. I've seen amazing aftermarket engine kits for them, and being a Mid-Engine makes it even more tempting. The only problem remains to find one.

Supra wasn't mentioned...

 

[Keef]

If you are looking for a project why even worry about the car's condition and problems?

Rust = no go. But the D15 in your CRX is running like hell? Replace it, if you have a few thousand laying around, with a B.

Very simplified, sure, but some problems are easier to fix than other. Many parts will be replaced anyway, so you'll rid the car of many problems during the build. Bad thing is that drivetrain parts are usually the most expensive.

EDIT: Loon, I know the reason Supras weren't mentioned. They're disgusting track cars. The things make holes in the ground nearly as big as a 3000!!!

 

[exigeracer]

Mazda Miata. If you have ever hung out at tracks, you'd have some sort of idea of the vast and respectable racing division known as SM, Spec Miata. There are so many racing levels, maintenance support and nation-wide events that you simply can't run out of fun with these things. You can participate from bone-stock right up to full blown race-guise Miatas. Many drivers compare their track ability on specific courses on SM times, that's how common the series is. SCCA also ahs extensive Miata leagues and events. Definitely consider these, you'd be making a mistake if you didn't.

 

[McLaren]

My buddy's 1992 Civic Si has air conditioning, a sunroof, power steering, 4 speaker stereo, a tailgate, plenty of stuff room, okay room for 4 people...but manual windows and locks.

And it weighs a hefty 2300 pounds.

I agree with Cody, also, that any MR2 is a fantastic track car. Celicas can be built nicely.

I'd rely on a Civic as a last-choice car. I have absolutely nothing against them, but they just personally aren't my first choice to build.

Doug, you know that Benz is an awful, unreliable, overcomplex, bloated, sloppy pig of a performance car.

True, true, but that's what I like about the sedans. The challenge that will come with them.

As is a radio, AC, and such. My MR2 has sound system from the previous owner I have left in there, because when I got it, it was my only car.

You MUST go with a manual transmission if it can be found on that model. The difference is huge when doing autocross and so on. So, if I was you, I would say "no Deal" instantly.

For an MR2, I agree with you there. As I said, I don't want to be picky, but every MR2 I've seen that's done track, has been a manual. The owners I've talked to in the long past only advised manual, and thought any Auto MR2 was not worthy of tracking. Then again...they didn't like autos in any car.

What type of racing type stuff do you plan on doing anyhow? And how much wrenching are you willing to do?

Auto-Cross and Track Days. As far as wrenching, I'd like to really get into it. I want this to be a car that if I start modifying, I'm keeping it for a long time. I don't believe in modifying a car you'll sell just a few years down the line.

-> How about an AE86 or an 2001 AP1 S2000? I bet you can get a decent AE86 between 1,500 to 5,000, and the AP1 right around 12,000 to 15,000. If its a sedan a nice late-90 540i M/T especially with the M-Sport kit.

I'd have to say no to AE86's. You'd be surprised at how many do turn up at events, and they all have that dumb white and black Panda-scheme from Initial D. As for the Honda, I've never seen S2000s sell for under $15K. Never, not even with high mileage. Now, the sedan you picked is a personal favorite. I like the idea of tuning an E39 5 series into a beast.

Datsun 510, you can get one off eBay for less then a grand.

But how is the condition? I'd expect that kind of car to really require some work before it can start really tracking.

 

[Keef]

...tuning an E39 5 series into a beast.

Here's something you should consider. Can you drive a beast? Seriously. As you drive the car you'll certainly learn how to drive it, no doubt. But if you go get a car that's already quite capable, like that E39, you might just find yourself overwhelmed by the car's abilities. Also, if you turn it into a monster of a car quickly it's a sure-fire way to end up facing the wrong way at the track. But you don't want to do it all right away, so that won't happen.

 

[McLaren]

If you are looking for a project why even worry about the car's condition and problems?

I really would like this to be a car I can start modifying, not something I'll need to restore to start building.

This is called "Need to Know Information".

One reason cheap cars are awesome is because parts are...cheap. Racing, or even just track days, wear out parts in no time, and when you have to pay $200 for a set of massive brake pads on your 3 series or A4 you'll realize what you got yourself into. The smaller the tire, the cheaper it is. I pay less than $500 for high-end performance tires. Probably couldn't manage under $700 for a 17" diameter wheel, like the Euro cars. Tires and brakes will be the parts that wear quickest, and they're also the most important parts of a car. You mustn't skimp.

Completely agree. I have done major thought on the costs, and when I can get the choices narrowed down, it'll make it easier to calculate.

Supra wasn't mentioned...

I know. I was saying though, that because Supras are not cheap, I have always picked the MR2 as the next best car.

EDIT: Loon, I know the reason Supras weren't mentioned. They're disgusting track cars. The things make holes in the ground nearly as big as a 3000!!!

Wait, so Supras really aren't great for tracking, just drag racing? I did not know that. *Marks one off the list*

Mazda Miata. If you have ever hung out at tracks, you'd have some sort of idea of the vast and respectable racing division known as SM, Spec Miata. There are so many racing levels, maintenance support and nation-wide events that you simply can't run out of fun with these things. You can participate from bone-stock right up to full blown race-guise Miatas. Many drivers compare their track ability on specific courses on SM times, that's how common the series is. SCCA also ahs extensive Miata leagues and events. Definitely consider these, you'd be making a mistake if you didn't.

You picked the only conv. I would ever consider. I have read the stories of the Miata's capabilities, and they are extremely fascinating for such a small car.

But, I should take this time to mention, that I would be expecting this car to go up against extremely tough competition. Not that winning is my goal, but I certainly don't want to show up in a car that's getting passed by everyone. So, how does the Miata stand up to stronger competition?

 

[Joey D]

But how is the condition? I'd expect that kind of car to really require some work before it can start really tracking.

Does it really matter? If it's going to be a track car it's probably going to get beat around quite a bit. Doesn't matter what car it is, I just don't think you really need a perfect looking car on the outside.

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

I'd have to say no to AE86's. You'd be surprised at how many do turn up at events, and they all have that dumb white and black Panda-scheme from Initial D. As for the Honda, I've never seen S2000s sell for under $15K. Never, not even with high mileage. Now, the sedan you picked is a personal favorite. I like the idea of tuning an E39 5 series into a beast.

^ Believe me I hate those panda schemes too, thats why I'd color mine flat black and turn it into this (see attachment).

-> Um, an S2K for under $15K? 💡

CLICK HERE

-> Yup I agree on the E39:

^ Especially this 540i Touring model.

 

[McLaren]

Here's something you should consider. Can you drive a beast? Seriously. As you drive the car you'll certainly learn how to drive it, no doubt. But if you go get a car that's already quite capable, like that E39, you might just find yourself overwhelmed by the car's abilities. Also, if you turn it into a monster of a car quickly it's a sure-fire way to end up facing the wrong way at the track. But you don't want to do it all right away, so that won't happen.

I do have some experience in higher-performance cars, and I did do a very small amount of auto-x in an E36 M3, but this isn't an excuse. I do know the 5 Series drives very differently from the 3.

As for the last sentence, you are correct. See, I'm hoping that as I build it, I'll be able to master each modification by the time I can afford the next part. I don't want to go from 200 horses to 450 in 4 months, and not be able to control the car.

 

[Keef]

But, I should take this time to mention, that I would be expecting this car to go up against extremely tough competition. Not that winning is my goal, but I certainly don't want to show up in a car that's getting passed by everyone. So, how does the Miata stand up to stronger competition?

That shouldn't be of concern to you at all. Car guys respect car guys. If you're surrounded by real performance enthusiasts they'll be intrigued by your new interest, and they'll answer your questions, help you out, even watch out for you on the track. They'll know how experienced you are just by the way you talk about your car, and if they need to stay away from you on the track, by Sage, they'll stay the hell away!

Pushing yourself is a good way to learn, as is watching, and maybe even riding in, other cars. You can go ahead and have your E39, but when the skilled driver in his lesser Miata or MR2 passes you you'll yell a big WTF.

Btw, I'm definitely not a race car driver, but I know some very experienced guys. Also, that go-kart stint last weekend was pretty humbling. Err, I've got some work to do.

 

[McLaren]

Does it really matter? If it's going to be a track car it's probably going to get beat around quite a bit. Doesn't matter what car it is, I just don't think you really need a perfect looking car on the outside.

Oh, the outside? No, that doesn't matter as it'll be fixed. I thought you meant problems such as engine, or transmission. I'd personally want to avoid a car with such problems as much as possible.

^ Believe me I hate those panda schemes too, thats why I'd color mine flat black and turn it into this (see attachment).

Nice. The problem with AE86s remain some pricing, location, and availability. They're not exactly as common as a Camaro.

-> Um, an S2K for under $15K? 💡

No freakin' way. Those are all under $15,000 and under 100,000 miles....

CLICK HERE

-> Yup I agree on the E39:

^ Especially this 540i Touring model.

A great car, but perhaps the 525i. I know 540's come with some power that doesn't take long to make faster. The Touring model, while funny to see beat cars, would more than likely drop a lot of weight.

I will def. look at S2000s now that you have shown me that.

 

[McLaren]

That shouldn't be of concern to you at all. Car guys respect car guys. If you're surrounded by real performance enthusiasts they'll be intrigued by your new interest, and they'll answer your questions, help you out, even watch out for you on the track. They'll know how experienced you are just by the way you talk about your car, and if they need to stay away from you on the track, by Sage, they'll stay the hell away!

Pushing yourself is a good way to learn, as is watching, and maybe even riding in, other cars. You can go ahead and have your E39, but when the skilled driver in his lesser Miata or MR2 passes you you'll yell a big WTF.

Btw, I'm definitely not a race car driver, but I know some very experienced guys. Also, that go-kart stint last weekend was pretty humbling. Err, I've got some work to do.

Terrific points again, and ones I'll really add to my experience.
+rep for all the help you've given so far.