I've been thinking about a dedicated track car for about 5 years now. I realized that there are things I can do to a track car that I wouldn't even think about doing to my nice shiny daily driver. And the qualities that top my list of what a good track car is, is as follows...
Basic car must be of fundamentally sound design. Pretty straight forward. The basic car should have no fundamental design issues that limit its use as a track car. You can make almost anything work as a track car, if you want it bad enough. But some cars are naturally better starting points than others.[/quoted]
Agreed. This is pretty much the point of the thread.
Aftermarket support. This is, IMO absolutely crucial. Unless you want to start fabricating your own parts, a good track car needs good support from aftermarket vendors. You will need suspension parts. Track pads. Maybe an entire brake kit. Wheels. Tires. Rubber or poly or aluminum doohickies that go in engine and tranny mounts, subframes, blah blah, the list goes on and on. You will need choices because you don't want to be locked into one vendor that will charge you an arm and a leg for a "flex disc" or a "guibo" because he is the only game in town.
While I'm worried about the Aftermarket Support, I am slightly more interested in the potential of the car. I want something that can go far. Of course, this could be applied to aftermarket support.
Community support. This is the other part of the support equation. If you want to do your own work, you will need direction from people who have done the work. What's the fastest way to bleed the brakes on XYZ car? What tools do you need to remove the factory front calipers? Or install a track pipe? Can you use the factory hangers or do you need to buy a kit? How do you deal with the O2 sensors? How many are there? Where are they? Chances are, someone has already done this. Why reinvent the wheel? Learn from the community.
Now, like it or not, both aftermarket and community support is largely based on the popularity of the car. You may not want or even like the idea of a Civic or F-body track car. But the fact is lots of people do. Therefore there is a huge array of aftermarket parts and enthusiast knowledge that makes the whole process easier.[/quote[
Good point on the community. I know some folks around the neighborhood have me covered on certain cars, but they don't know about all.
Aftermarket support, though, is something I might list in the same category as Car Potential.
Other criteria are as follows...
Car should be a small and light, but be as practical as possible. You will want to carry wheels and tires. Tool kits. A small compressor. Spare pads. Bleeder kit. A cooler. A folding chair. An umbrella. Maybe even a sleeping bag. Or a co-driver. blah blah. etc. Unless you want to buy a small tire trailer, a larger car with back seats and a trunk is very helpful in this regard. Both the Miata and the Boxster have a problem with this, but I included them in my suggestion list anyway.
One of the reasons I want a sedan is this. I can't afford a trailer and a truck to tow it around along with the car.
Car should be easy to drive, have no major handling defects (that isn't easily curable) and have a margin of safety. Simple enough. Ideally, the car should also have a fixed roof. Because one day you may roll it. Despite that, I have two verts on my list because you can still install a roll cage.
I'd list this in the same category as being able to be a track car, while also being able to drive for an hour to the event, imo.
Car should have room to grow. One day, you may get tired of getting passed by a relative beginner in a 997 Turbo on a straight, only to catch him at the next turn and get stuck behind him for the next 4, waiting for him to give you the point by. The option of more power in the future is always good.
So, would this work better with slower cars? Say, like a 325i over a M3?
Unless you are an amputee and missing one leg or one arm, car should be manual transmission or a semi-automatic manual that will absolutely, positively hold a gear even if it means bouncing off the rev limiter. This has absolutely nothing to do with which shifts faster. This is 100% about control.
Completely agree. But as I said, if I can not absolutely find it in the car I'm set on, I'm not going to just say no deal if it really is a good deal either way.
<Auto rant begins here>
Imagine you are at an autocross. There is a short straight into a 'bus stop' (a chicane), which is a tight kink to the left (or right), then another kink back to the right (or left). Often, they are followed by another short straight or increasing radius turn. Exit speed is crucial and the whole thing happens in about 2 seconds.
Most manual cars in most autocrosses can execute most bus stops in 2nd gear. You brake, turn in, rotate the car and accelerate out. Torque is there when you need it, just a brush of the throttle away. If you need to rotate the car with the throttle, its not an issue.
But what happens when you approach in an auto? You brake. The auto decides that since you lifted off the throttle, it needs to upshift. Probably to 5th. The car becomes slightly unsettled because the load on the drivetrain has changed. Then you turn in and begin to flick the car in the other direction.
You hit the throttle and then... nothing... The transmission is asleep in 4th or 5th gear. A second passes, which is an eternity in autocross. You are now 10, 15 feet out of the box and onto your increasing radius sweeper where you must accelerate as much as possible or loose time. Finally, the autobox figures out you need power and you needed it yestarday, so it kicks down into 2nd or maybe even 1st.
..which happens when you're about half way out of the turn. If your car has a lot of power, it now completely unsettles the chassis, because all the torque comes in a huge, hard to control wave. If you are FWD, you will now push to the outside, going wide. If you are RWD, you will probably get a little or a lot loose. If you are AWD, you may do either or both. It's even worse if your car has a modest amount of power. Your car may stay under control, but you just threw away 1.5 to 2 seconds where you could have been accelerating.
Some autos are better than others, but they all have this problem to some degree. Some of the older ones might hold a gear. If it feels like it. But you never know because they have minds of their own.
Some of the newer ones are even pretty good and will indeed hold a gear no matter what happens, so if you decide an auto is best for you, make sure you at least have one of those. But any auto that upshifts or downshifts without input from you (which is almost all of them) is an automatic FAIL, in my opinion.
</auto rant ends>
Completely understand. I know now, that it really does need to be included in the list of "Essentials".
But say I can't, and settle for an auto. Would it be worth swapping the transmission out for a manual after extensive modifications, or would that throw those off?
Anyway, I've gone on for way longer than I intended...
All of the cars I put in my list successfully meets all the criteria I just stated. They have a large, well developed aftermarket and enthusiast fan base. They are all fun to drive in their own way and have plenty of room to grow.
Personally, I'm most likely going with an E36 325i when I finally buy a track car. I am comfortable driving them fast. They are cheap and plentiful, well documented and over the last 15 years, I have amassed plain stupid amounts of knowledge on them. I've also given some though on a 350Z or even a C5 as well, but it depends on the budget I have to work with.
Honestly, though. The easiest, most trouble free way to get into a track car is to get one already built. You miss out on the process, which is part of the point, but you also miss out on the expense and pain of getting it where it needs to be. So don't discount that option either.
M
The E36 325i really seems to be ideal choice. It offers manuals, it's sporty in its own way, and...it's a BMW.
As for the pre-built, I like the idea, but that'll have to be done if I absolutely can not find something. I really want the building to be part of the experience.
The Prelude is a great handling car--some say its too heavy--I say stripped out and with a good LSD it would be a good autox'er. The Focus is the same way, a good suspension setup + a good LSD and it would be a good autox'er--my only problem with Focus' as track cars is the serious lack of power from the anemic USDM ZETEC 2.0L engine. You'll need to put quite alot of money in it to even get 200whp N/A. There is a jackson racing roots supercharger for it (if memory serves) which has very good throttle response and all the extra power you need after you go N/A tuning.
But aren't Preludes usually last choice Auto-X cars? I've only seen them built for drag racing, and can't find any records of major racing Preludes like I can Civics. As for the Focus, I'm exploring their aftermarket support, and what can be done to them as we speak.
I suppose Mustangs will be my fall-back on car if I can't find the car(s) I've really become set on.
Thats my MR2, not McLaren's
Its in Street Mod 2 for Solo II due to the engine swap.
88 and 89 year models had a supercharged version. The engine options on the Mk1 MR2 are the 4A-GE (120HP) and the 4A-GZE (145HP). Hardtop models weigh about 2300 lbs, with you going up to 2500~2600 with a T-top.
145Bhp seems fine for me then, esp. in hardtop.
Of the Mk2 MR2s, the only worth getting is the turbo really, which has a 3S-GTE making 200HP stock. You can make over 400 HP on stock internals with a 3S-GTE. The non turbo is rubbish using the 5S-FE from the Camry. Only thing those are really good for is pulling out and dropping in the V6 from the Camry and supercharging it. The Mk2 weighs over 2600 lbs in lightest trim, but it is very hard to find a turbo that has a hard top.
So, there is a ton of potential on the Mk2's just from its stock engine alone? That sounds like a plus to me. The non-hardtop isn't though I could possibly drop a lot of excess weight.
The Mk3 MR2s, the Spyder, have the the 1ZZ-FE (125HP) from the Corolla. However, it is a relatively straight forward swap to put the 2ZZ-GE (180HP) from the Celica GT-S in there. The Mk3 weighs about 2150 lbs.
The best autocross car out of the bunch would be the Mk3's, as they are the lightest and most modern. They handle far more neutrally than previous generations, and are an excellent comparison to a Miata. However, the after market on them is a bit smaller, as there was not alot of interest in the 1ZZ-FE, or for that matter, the whole car in general.
Wait, so despite being a Spyder,
it would still be the better choice out of the 3?
The Mk2 has the largest direct after market for MR2s, due to the huge power obtainable from the 3S-GTE. However, expect a fairly good condition late model, such as a 94, to run nearly 10 grand. At which point you could just by an MR-S (Mk3)
The Mk1 though has the largest indirect after market, due to the drifting craze making 4A-GE parts popular. The engine was used in the AE82, AE86, and AE92. Which includes the Corolla, Nova, and Prizm. And then you have the 4A-GE's from the AE101 and AE111. The C52 transmission was also widely used, and the 6speed from AE111 can be swapped if you want to change the bell housings.
The fact the Mk2 has a ton of potential on its base engine alone is, as said, a personal interest. I'd really like a car whose engine is easily expandable.
*McLaren*, if you think you want to get serious about autocrossing, you may want to not only look at the rules, but do a little looking around at which class you want to compete in.
M
I have been looking at, but I honestly feel I'll be doing track days more often. However, do even they require certain classes at different times? Such as a BMW day?
Rules are important. When my cousin got hold of that '91 CRX we did some research on what it would take to turn it into an SCCA Club racer. What we found is that getting an SCCA competition license is a little above our heads, much less the very specific mods that need to be done to the car and all the maintanence required of beating the crap out of a real car.
My point is that the rules and guidelines for racing classes may end up defining your car of choice. You can't build up a Celica and then go beat a bunch of 3s and Mustangs. The cars are from different classes.
Reviewing rules is reasonable because you just might get hooked on racing after a few track days. The challenge is amazing. But if you've spent all this money building a car and it turns out it doesn't meet the rules...oh well. Maybe you can sell the parts you don't need.
Perfectly understood.
Its a manual too. 
👍
