Good Project car between $5K & $15K?

[The Vanishing Boy]

^ Hey, no prob dude. I love S2000's forever.

 

[Keef]

I try. If I knew more performance-oriented people I'd tell them to pay a visit, but the only person that come to mind now is M-Spec. He's got lots of knowledge on driving and whatnot.

And now I'm off to a car meet. I'll be back to disagree with everyone but Cody in a while!

 

[exigeracer]

You picked the only conv. I would ever consider. I have read the stories of the Miata's capabilities, and they are extremely fascinating for such a small car.

But, I should take this time to mention, that I would be expecting this car to go up against extremely tough competition. Not that winning is my goal, but I certainly don't want to show up in a car that's getting passed by everyone. So, how does the Miata stand up to stronger competition?

You don't "go up" against anyone at most track days. You just go out and lap. Passing isn't even allowed in many of these events. There are racing series and such, but have you considered where your chosen car will be classed, and what other cars are against it? This kinds of things are standardized, and disregarding skill level, you don't want to be placed in a class where some minor specification of your car puts you against other cars that will destroy you no matter how fast you pedal. You also won't be allowed to race in these series for a while either. Check these kinds of things out before you buy. This isn't as easy as pressing start and racing against other cars. SM on the other hand has many levels within the series, concerning both your car and what you've done to it, as well as your own driving ability.

I still say Miata. Such a safe bet.

 

[///M-Spec]

Off the top of my head...

Fox body Mustang.
4th Gen Camaro
M1 or M2 Miata
E36 325 (get a '92-95 ZSP so you get a real LSD)
E36 M3 (if you have to have some power. Don't get it for the suspension, you will swap it all out anyway)
C4 Corvette
Civic/CRX (any)
DC2/DC4/DB7/DB8 Integra
986
944/968

Can't really go wrong with any of those choices.

EDIT: Personally, I wouldn't use an E39 as a basis for a track car. They're great street cars, but realistically too heavy for serious track work. The V8s are even worse propositions because they have recirculating ball steering rather than rack and pinion in the I6 E39s. You may also find needing to upgrade the brake system (throughly) much earlier than if you started with a small, lighter car. You could strip one out, but then what would be the point of getting 5er?


M

 

[McLaren]

You don't "go up" against anyone at most track days. You just go out and lap. Passing isn't even allowed in many of these events. There are racing series and such, but have you considered where your chosen car will be classed, and what other cars are against it? This kinds of things are standardized, and disregarding skill level, you don't want to be placed in a class where some minor specification of your car puts you against other cars that will destroy you no matter how fast you pedal. You also won't be allowed to race in these series for a while either. Check these kinds of things out before you buy. This isn't as easy as pressing start and racing against other cars. SM on the other hand has many levels within the series, concerning both your car and what you've done to it, as well as your own driving ability.

I still say Miata. Such a safe bet.

It really has been a while since I tracked. Good points. I'll def. check into those.

Off the top of my head...

Fox body Mustang.
4th Gen Camaro
M1 or M2 Miata
E36 325 (get a '92-95 ZSP so you get a real LSD)
E36 M3 (if you have to have some power. Don't get it for the suspension, you will swap it all out anyway)
C4 Corvette
Civic/CRX (any)
DC2/DC4/DB7/DB8 Integra
986
944/968

Can't really go wrong with any of those choices.

The Camaro & the Fox Body? I didn't think those would be the best track cars, but I could be wrong. I'm also not looking for a Civic, CRX, though I know what they're capable of, and are easy to be used as a daily/track car. But good choices.

But wouldn't the maintenance on the Porsche's be high later on?

EDIT: Personally, I wouldn't use an E39 as a basis for a track car. They're great street cars, but realistically too heavy for serious track work. The V8s are even worse propositions because they have recirculating ball steering rather than rack and pinion in the I6 E39s. You may also find needing to upgrade the brake system (throughly) much earlier than if you started with a small, lighter car. You could strip one out, but then what would be the point of getting 5er?


M

That is a pretty good point regarding the 5. I still would like the challenge, but I guess in the end, it probably wouldn't make the best track car. I've just considered it because of what I've seen a few E39 M5's become.

 

[Azuremen]

Okay, so you want an Auto? Not a manual.

I am sorry, but short of DSG, the auto's are all fail. Period.

Of course, finding an auto Mk1 MR2 is a trick in and of itself. If you do consider the Mr2 option, go for an 87-89 Mk1 for the first gen, they have better transmissions, revisions to the interior that I prefer, and alot of other good adjustments.

I saw two S2000s, with 61k and 44k miles, going for $12,500 and $14,500 around here.

That aside, you want a light car for autocross. The fastest things around here tend to be EF and EG Civics, and by fast, I mean they spank everything. And they are cheap as crap, except this crazy guy with a CRX that has a supercharged B18 going to 9500 RPMs. But that car is disgusting on so many levels its not funny.

The 3 series is good, but far too heavy I think for an autocross car. Plus parts and such will be more, where as I can go pillage a dozen different Corolla/Nova/Prizm variants for parts.

For a track car, at the moment, if I had 15 grand... I would probably go for an MR-S, or an Mk1 MR2. The MK2 turbos are several hundred pounds heavier than the Mk1 and Mk3, so I don't like them as much.

Or a Miata. Since those are just amazing to drive. I have never been in a car that feels so natural. Took me less than 5 minutes to be comfortable pushing one sideways, in the rain. My MR2 still makes me more nervous than that Miata did.

Or, if I was gonna go for pure cheap to fast ratios... EG-6 Civic with a D15/16 junkyard turbo build and some suspension work and grippy tires. Under 2000 pounds with a possible 200 WHP for a couple grand just reeks of win.

 

[YSSMAN]

Lets see... Cheap, RWD or AWD (preferably RWD), fun to drive, easy to work on. Thats a tough group to sort through!

Immediate thoughts normally lead me directly to the Mustang (Fox Body) and 4th Gen Camaro, but those are out of the question...

A few random thoughts:

- Isuzu Impluse RS: What a strange fellow this car was, but as I recall quite the performer. It was labeled as one of the best "Bang For Buck" cars in 1990 or 1991, just behind the Mazda RX-7 of the era. AWD performance and turbo power kept things lively, but I have no idea what reliability has been like, furthermore, what the performance scene is like these days.

Volkswagen Corrado SLC: Okay, its another front-driver and its a bit "old" as of late, but the body lines are classic and the car is relatively easy to work on, and best of all has a HUGE cult following. The problem will likely be that they get bought up by collectors quickly these days, and those that have not are likely the (so-so) supercharged models, or old SLC (read VR6) versions that have far too many miles to still be worth it. But, you can find them occasionally for the right price and with the right amount of love to make them worth it...

Saab 900 Turbo: Yep. They're odd, they're fast, and they're still some of the coolest Saabs they ever made. I have no idea what the market is like on one of these, but you may have a better chance with a newer 9-3 Viggen.

===

Just as a general outside question, have you ever considered using a pickup truck? With the right amount of tuning they can perform moderately well, and it would certainly be "different" to say the least... Problem is, you're pretty much stuck with a Tacoma/Hilux, Mazda B-series/Ford Ranger, or S-10/Jimmy... And the kick-ass Nissan Frontier!

I know my brother and I have discussed purchasing an old pickup to tear down and convert to a "race car." We'd mainly be in it for the chassis, engine, transmission and the overall "narrow" base of the vehicle... But other than that, the plan would be to pretty much scrap the body and make a custom steel body with a single-seat interior (probably the aero-style like what Corvettes and Jaguars have been).

 

[///M-Spec]

It really has been a while since I tracked. Good points. I'll def. check into those.

The Camaro & the Fox Body? I didn't think those would be the best track cars, but I could be wrong. I'm also not looking for a Civic, CRX, though I know what they're capable of, and are easy to be used as a daily/track car. But good choices.

But wouldn't the maintenance on the Porsche's be high later on?

That is a pretty good point regarding the 5. I still would like the challenge, but I guess in the end, it probably wouldn't make the best track car. I've just considered it because of what I've seen a few E39 M5's become.

Whoops. I missed the part where you said you didn't want a pony car. This is what happens when you post after several scotch and waters.

I'll elaborate tommarrow when I'm completely sober.


M

 

[McLaren]

Okay, so you want an Auto? Not a manual.

I am sorry, but short of DSG, the auto's are all fail. Period.

Either transmission will do. Manual will have the advantage, but if I have to settle for an Auto, I will.

Of course, finding an auto Mk1 MR2 is a trick in and of itself. If you do consider the Mr2 option, go for an 87-89 Mk1 for the first gen, they have better transmissions, revisions to the interior that I prefer, and alot of other good adjustments.

I probably will give a search for them just because of their reputation, but what about this gen?

Can these be made as track-worthy? Or are these the MK2s? I really don't know the gen.s.

I saw two S2000s, with 61k and 44k miles, going for $12,500 and $14,500 around here.

I'll have to do some research on the S2000s and how capable they really are.

That aside, you want a light car for autocross. The fastest things around here tend to be EF and EG Civics, and by fast, I mean they spank everything. And they are cheap as crap, except this crazy guy with a CRX that has a supercharged B18 going to 9500 RPMs. But that car is disgusting on so many levels its not funny.

As I've said, the Civic isn't choice #1, but supposing, how long would it take to make one competitive? The Auto-X cars here range from Corvettes to small sports cars that are really fast.

The 3 series is good, but far too heavy I think for an autocross car. Plus parts and such will be more, where as I can go pillage a dozen different Corolla/Nova/Prizm variants for parts.

The 3 still seems like a good choice, and I wouldn't imagine the E36 to be too heavy.

Or a Miata. Since those are just amazing to drive. I have never been in a car that feels so natural. Took me less than 5 minutes to be comfortable pushing one sideways, in the rain. My MR2 still makes me more nervous than that Miata did.

Or, if I was gonna go for pure cheap to fast ratios... EG-6 Civic with a D15/16 junkyard turbo build and some suspension work and grippy tires. Under 2000 pounds with a possible 200 WHP for a couple grand just reeks of win.

The Miata is def. on my Look At list, but the Civic I really have to think about. Not doubting it though.

Lets see... Cheap, RWD or AWD (preferably RWD), fun to drive, easy to work on. Thats a tough group to sort through!

Immediate thoughts normally lead me directly to the Mustang (Fox Body) and 4th Gen Camaro, but those are out of the question...

A few random thoughts:

- Isuzu Impluse RS: What a strange fellow this car was, but as I recall quite the performer. It was labeled as one of the best "Bang For Buck" cars in 1990 or 1991, just behind the Mazda RX-7 of the era. AWD performance and turbo power kept things lively, but I have no idea what reliability has been like, furthermore, what the performance scene is like these days.

I actually had to look this car up, so I'm def. not too sure on this. How reliable are these? I've never even seen one, and Isuzu isn't exactly everyone's first thought of performance, so I'd really need to know the background of the Impulse.

Volkswagen Corrado SLC: Okay, its another front-driver and its a bit "old" as of late, but the body lines are classic and the car is relatively easy to work on, and best of all has a HUGE cult following. The problem will likely be that they get bought up by collectors quickly these days, and those that have not are likely the (so-so) supercharged models, or old SLC (read VR6) versions that have far too many miles to still be worth it. But, you can find them occasionally for the right price and with the right amount of love to make them worth it...

The Corrado is awesome, and having FWD means nothing to me for it. However, prices seem high, and models for sale seem to be few and far. I feel like it'd be a car I'd have to find at the right time.

Saab 900 Turbo: Yep. They're odd, they're fast, and they're still some of the coolest Saabs they ever made. I have no idea what the market is like on one of these, but you may have a better chance with a newer 9-3 Viggen.

Not a big fan of older Saabs like I am of the new ones, but it's just another car I would never guess to be a tracker.

Just as a general outside question, have you ever considered using a pickup truck? With the right amount of tuning they can perform moderately well, and it would certainly be "different" to say the least... Problem is, you're pretty much stuck with a Tacoma/Hilux, Mazda B-series/Ford Ranger, or S-10/Jimmy... And the kick-ass Nissan Frontier!

It'd have to be an old sport truck like a S10 Xtreme. I, personally, don't want a truck, esp. not for tracking. So yeah, it'd have to some power to begin with.

I know my brother and I have discussed purchasing an old pickup to tear down and convert to a "race car." We'd mainly be in it for the chassis, engine, transmission and the overall "narrow" base of the vehicle... But other than that, the plan would be to pretty much scrap the body and make a custom steel body with a single-seat interior (probably the aero-style like what Corvettes and Jaguars have been).

Nice plan. 👍

Of course, that's a bit more than I'd like to do. I'd like to avoid having to tear the car apart to start doing work.

 

[Joey D]

Just as a general outside question, have you ever considered using a pickup truck? With the right amount of tuning they can perform moderately well, and it would certainly be "different" to say the least... Problem is, you're pretty much stuck with a Tacoma/Hilux, Mazda B-series/Ford Ranger, or S-10/Jimmy... And the kick-ass Nissan Frontier!

Like this?

 

[Azuremen]

There is a guy out here with a Nissan Hardbody that does pretty well...

On the MR2s...

Mk1 - 1985 to 1989
Mk2 - 1991 to 1995
Mk3 - 1999 to 2005

I have an Mk1 MR2, an '87 here...

You can get more info on it from the link in my signature. I think I am the unofficial forum expert on Mk1 MR2s, and probably MR2s in general around here.

They are a challenge to learn at first, but once you get use to driving them... nothing quite compares. The unique challenge of keeping it all under control is always rewarded with fast and fun cornering. But expect to spin out a few times at least before you get the hang of it.

 

[Joey D]

I've raced the Blazer a few times at school events (scca won't allow SUV's) and I did decently...but then again I'm far from a good race driver. If you put a link suspension in the rear of a truck it's going to do just fine. Lots of guys on the S10Forum autox there trucks and do quite well with them.

 

[Keef]

Or, if I was gonna go for pure cheap to fast ratios... EG-6 Civic with a D15/16 junkyard turbo build and some suspension work and grippy tires. Under 2000 pounds with a possible 200 WHP for a couple grand just reeks of win.

As a Honda guy I just had to quote this, just so it gets another mention. People do this, and they work very well if you do it right.

Or you could be like the guy around here who, like Cody mentioned, has a built-to-the-max EG6 (92-95 hatchback) with every functional suspension bit you would need, super light 14 inch rims with big fat slicks, stripped interior with zero luxuries, and the best part is a B20/VTEC engine. The 2.0 block already has strong torque and is lighter than a K-series from an RSX, and with the DOHC VTEC head from a B16/B18 it has loads of high end power on tap. He consistently wins autocrosses, beating all the Miatas, Vettes, and even the occasional purpose-built racer.

/honda rant

 

[1X83Z]

BTW Doug, are there any Audi's that possibly fit what I'm looking for?

Consider the 1992-1994 S4 (also known as the 1995 S6). Available in both sedan and wagon and should be affordable. All-wheel drive, 227-horsepower, manual-only.

Also, of course, the 2000-2002 S4, with the biturbo 270-horsepower V6. Both transmissions and bodystyles (wagon was '01-'02 only).

 

[toyomatt84]

Mazda Miata, FC or FC RX-7, Datsun Roadster, Integra/RSX, etc....

 

[JCE]

300ZX (any year), MR2 (1st or 2nd gen), 80's model Celica Supra, Datsun 510, original Mini (there are still a few floating around for less than $10k in decent shape), FC RX7 w/LS1 swap, mid/late 80's 3-series, Merc 190E (any year), mid 90's Impreza, SVT Focus or regular Focus with some Euro RS parts installed, Prelude (4th or 5th gen), or an early 80's Corolla--when they were RWD.

Now I know you said no Mustangs McLaren...but some foxbodies do make excellent track cars when tuned correctly. Grab yourself an 87-93 coupe 5.0 and you have a world of parts at your disposal--which includes some killer suspension setups. Have an open mind and check it out just for grins.

Oh, and if I had the cash I'd probably do something like this...

 

[YSSMAN]

I've raced the Blazer a few times at school events (scca won't allow SUV's) and I did decently...but then again I'm far from a good race driver. If you put a link suspension in the rear of a truck it's going to do just fine. Lots of guys on the S10Forum autox there trucks and do quite well with them.

Thats pretty much what I've understood. It would be my assumption that there is definite limitations to the chassis overall, but with a fair bit of tuning, would be able to perform quite well. My brother was looking into doing something similar on an S-10, although I believe he was going to go the Air-Ride route with the updated NASCAR-style front and rear suspensions.

An interesting find would be the Toyota Tacoma X-Runner as an idea of what can happen if stuff is done right. Their performance benchmark was the Nissan 350Z, and as I recall, they met those standards fairly easily (surprisingly). My guess would be that on an older truck it may be a bit more difficult, but not out of the question.

My interest would turn to something like an old Nissan Hardbody pickup, which should have some performance potential with the KA24DE, a five-speed manual, and a bit of fine-tuning. Although, I have no idea for certain... But God would that be awesome showing up in one of those and tearing into "sports cars" that cost thousands more...

 

[JCE]

The KA24DE is a terrible engine for tuning, you have a brickwall for tuning @ around 260~280bhp. I wouldn't recommend it for autox what-so-ever.

 

[YSSMAN]

I thought the KA24DET (although not an "official" engine) was supposed to be some sort of Messiah-like engine in the Import world? I have no idea really, this is why I stick to small-blocks.

Rip everything out of an S-10, grab an LS1 and a T56 out of a blown-out Camaro or Corvette, add an Air Ride suspension with the updated pieces in front and out back, kick ass on the track. Simple, cheap, a conversion thats been done many times... Or go old-school, get an original S-10 and some old carbed 350 with a fair bit of power, hook it up to a T5, and have fun.

 

[Azuremen]

The KA24DE is a terrible engine for tuning, you have a brickwall for tuning @ around 260~280bhp. I wouldn't recommend it for autox what-so-ever.

Are you crazy? I've seen over 280 WHP from those without alot of work. They are over built being truck engine and are cheap to get ahold of if you break anything.

Much cheaper than doing an SR20DET swap or such.

 

[Perfect Balance]

Yes, the transmission does bother you. It does. This car must be manual. Not about practicality? Get something light. Something with a good suspension design, if pedestrian tuning. Something with a great aftermarket backing. Something with powertrain options out the wazoo. Something simple. Something inexpensive.

See where this is going? Japan. That's where it's going.

Buy an SVT Focus. You'll adore it's handling prowess and you'll love the engine once you slap a big JR blower on it.

More basic? A 240, like Loon mentioned, is always a fun, if an unreliable and oil-burning choice. Miatas are fun but brittle. Civics are just badass all around. You would not believe the potential an old B13 Sentra has. Very light, good cars.

The car must be manual, I agree with you there, but I couldn't help notice "Miatas are fun but brittle." They are not brittle. My friend has owned 2, both '90, and each one was driven 100% quite literally every day, over a year in the first, and around a year in the second. Sport compact car also wrote in a reply to a reader that a Miata will withstand more track abuse than the 350z he wanted with over 15K in parts. They are not at all "brittle."

As for a B13, yes, they are great cars, but good luck finding one in good condition.

Mazda Miata, FC or FC RX-7, Datsun Roadster, Integra/RSX, etc....

I actually thought of all of these cars while reading this thread.

The KA24DE is a terrible engine for tuning, you have a brickwall for tuning @ around 260~280bhp. I wouldn't recommend it for autox what-so-ever.

Not true, they are good for tuning, and can actually hold more power on the stock bottom end than the sr20det.

Are you crazy? I've seen over 280 WHP from those without alot of work. They are over built being truck engine and are cheap to get ahold of if you break anything.

Much cheaper than doing an SR20DET swap or such.

It's not a truck engine, and they aren't much cheaper than doing an sr20det swap, since getting the 200hp the sr20det has requires about the same cost in parts, so in the end it's just a matter of which one you want.

It's really as simple as a turbo, but getting it to run good and reliable uses those 2k you saved by not buying an sr20 pretty fast.


I say buy a Miata. Quite possibly the best car to learn performance driving in, and it's reliable, cheap, and there's plenty of ways to go when tuning.

Take a test drive in one on a nice twisty road, and you'll see what I mean.

 

[McLaren]

There is a guy out here with a Nissan Hardbody that does pretty well...

On the MR2s...

Mk1 - 1985 to 1989
Mk2 - 1991 to 1995
Mk3 - 1999 to 2005

I have an Mk1 MR2, an '87 here...

You can get more info on it from the link in my signature. I think I am the unofficial forum expert on Mk1 MR2s, and probably MR2s in general around here.

They are a challenge to learn at first, but once you get use to driving them... nothing quite compares. The unique challenge of keeping it all under control is always rewarded with fast and fun cornering. But expect to spin out a few times at least before you get the hang of it.

So, what are the models for your Gen? Such as any Turbo, Supercharger, etc. models? Base ones are beat to hell after a quick check of the surrounding 50 miles. Mileage reaching 200,000K, parts missing, worn out engines, so I'm hoping maybe a more performance-like model will be easier. I'd like a Gen. 2 as well, but I'd rather learn about their potential as well.

I will check the link though. 👍

I've raced the Blazer a few times at school events (scca won't allow SUV's) and I did decently...but then again I'm far from a good race driver. If you put a link suspension in the rear of a truck it's going to do just fine. Lots of guys on the S10Forum autox there trucks and do quite well with them.

Is that all? I would expect a lot of work with trucks to make them track machines.

As a Honda guy I just had to quote this, just so it gets another mention. People do this, and they work very well if you do it right.

Or you could be like the guy around here who, like Cody mentioned, has a built-to-the-max EG6 (92-95 hatchback) with every functional suspension bit you would need, super light 14 inch rims with big fat slicks, stripped interior with zero luxuries, and the best part is a B20/VTEC engine. The 2.0 block already has strong torque and is lighter than a K-series from an RSX, and with the DOHC VTEC head from a B16/B18 it has loads of high end power on tap. He consistently wins autocrosses, beating all the Miatas, Vettes, and even the occasional purpose-built racer.

/honda rant

Just out of curiousness, how much would you estimate he spent to get there. I'm really considering the price afterwards, now.

Consider the 1992-1994 S4 (also known as the 1995 S6). Available in both sedan and wagon and should be affordable. All-wheel drive, 227-horsepower, manual-only.

Also, of course, the 2000-2002 S4, with the biturbo 270-horsepower V6. Both transmissions and bodystyles (wagon was '01-'02 only).

Sound like what I'm looking for in a sedan. I know they can look great with certain kits, and can go like stink with some added power on top of the AWD.

300ZX (any year), MR2 (1st or 2nd gen), 80's model Celica Supra, Datsun 510, original Mini (there are still a few floating around for less than $10k in decent shape), FC RX7 w/LS1 swap, mid/late 80's 3-series, Merc 190E (any year), mid 90's Impreza, SVT Focus or regular Focus with some Euro RS parts installed, Prelude (4th or 5th gen), or an early 80's Corolla--when they were RWD.

Most of those seem like what I'm after. On the Prelude and Focus though, how much potential is there in them. I wouldn't mind replicating an RS in the end.

Now I know you said no Mustangs McLaren...but some foxbodies do make excellent track cars when tuned correctly. Grab yourself an 87-93 coupe 5.0 and you have a world of parts at your disposal--which includes some killer suspension setups. Have an open mind and check it out just for grins.

Oh, and if I had the cash I'd probably do something like this...

I think I will now. You and others have mentioned the Fox Body, so it must be pretty good.

An interesting find would be the Toyota Tacoma X-Runner as an idea of what can happen if stuff is done right. Their performance benchmark was the Nissan 350Z, and as I recall, they met those standards fairly easily (surprisingly). My guess would be that on an older truck it may be a bit more difficult, but not out of the question.

The X-Runner is the 1 truck besides the Xtreme I think of in performance. However, those are still fairly new, so prices will still be high.

 

[Joey D]

Is that all? I would expect a lot of work with trucks to make them track machines.

Tires and decent suspension is all you need. The great thing about S-Truck is they share parts with Corvettes and F-bodies. The wheels, tires, and brakes should fit right on with very minor bracket modifications. The same goes for an LS1...you can pretty much do a swap in your driveway in a weekend if you buy the kit, which consists of new bolt or weld in brackets. Hell the air filter off my truck is the same one off a Corvette, for some reason GM just used a lot of off the shelf parts when redoing the 2nd gen of the the S-truck.

Rear link suspension is easy, I've probably done them on 4 s-trucks and it took maybe a day to do. The front suspension is even easier to screw around with. I lowered my truck in about 6 hours and that included removing the old suspension and replacing it with all new, as well as modifying the brake lines...and I'm not real mechanically savvy.

The only problem I would see with a S-truck is that they are a bit weak with the heavy 4.3L and they are really weak with the I4 chugging away. Although like I said, engine swaps are very easy to do and many people have done them.

I don't see why a truck would be bad, it would be unique and you can make them pretty nice track vehicles if you choose. If you missed it there is that S-10 on the previous page, which shows what you can do to one. Also they are dirt cheap, find a used fleet truck for about $2000 and do the engine swap. You can build a hell of an S-10 for under $10,000 including the truck.

 

[TheCracker]

Have i missed the obvious post where someone suggests, presuming you got these cars in the US of A, an Impreza or Lancer Evo?

Why start off with a moderately quick car and tune it when you can start with a well proven very quick car and easily tune it.

European track days are littered with these cars for a reason - they do the job very well.

 

[Joey D]

Have i missed the obvious post where someone suggests, presuming you got these cars in the US of A, an Impreza or Lancer Evo?

Why start off with a moderately quick car and tune it when you can start with a well proven very quick car and easily tune it.

European track days are littered with these cars for a reason - they do the job very well.

I think it goes back to the first post:

I do ask though that you don't just suddenly say, "Impreza WRX, BMW M3, or Camaro SS!" These are fine to pick, but think outside the box. I'd want this to be a car that was somewhat sporty, turned into a car that is by all means, performance-oriented.

 

[TheCracker]

I think it goes back to the first post:

Yet many people are still suggesting both the Camaro and the M3.

 

[hairyboid4]

i would personally suggest going to scca's website and downloading some of the rule books so that you can see what classes your mr2 would be competitive in

i would try a production class first just to get the hang of it and if you like it you can move yourself into a modified class like ITE

but as far as a car to start with your mr2 is just fine

 

[///M-Spec]

So let's try that again... sober this time

The Camaro & the Fox Body? I didn't think those would be the best track cars, but I could be wrong. I'm also not looking for a Civic, CRX, though I know what they're capable of, and are easy to be used as a daily/track car. But good choices.

But wouldn't the maintenance on the Porsche's be high later on?

That is a pretty good point regarding the 5. I still would like the challenge, but I guess in the end, it probably wouldn't make the best track car. I've just considered it because of what I've seen a few E39 M5's become.

The pony cars will handle much better than you think. And they are relatively inexpensive to upgrade. And more power is easy. So don't discount them.

The 986 and 944/968 will be more expensive to own, but they are Porsches and will be the most rewarding to drive.

I forgot to mention another car that should be just within your price range. A Z33 350Z. In fact, this is a very strong choice barring price of entry.


Step back for a minute and think about a track car. Short of an Exige or GT3, there is almost nothing in the market that is ready to go 'out of the box'. You will need to change things. Not all at once. But over time, as your skills progress, you will need the car to progress along with you.

I've been thinking about a dedicated track car for about 5 years now. I realized that there are things I can do to a track car that I wouldn't even think about doing to my nice shiny daily driver. And the qualities that top my list of what a good track car is, is as follows...

Basic car must be of fundamentally sound design. Pretty straight forward. The basic car should have no fundamental design issues that limit its use as a track car. You can make almost anything work as a track car, if you want it bad enough. But some cars are naturally better starting points than others.

Aftermarket support. This is, IMO absolutely crucial. Unless you want to start fabricating your own parts, a good track car needs good support from aftermarket vendors. You will need suspension parts. Track pads. Maybe an entire brake kit. Wheels. Tires. Rubber or poly or aluminum doohickies that go in engine and tranny mounts, subframes, blah blah, the list goes on and on. You will need choices because you don't want to be locked into one vendor that will charge you an arm and a leg for a "flex disc" or a "guibo" because he is the only game in town.

Community support. This is the other part of the support equation. If you want to do your own work, you will need direction from people who have done the work. What's the fastest way to bleed the brakes on XYZ car? What tools do you need to remove the factory front calipers? Or install a track pipe? Can you use the factory hangers or do you need to buy a kit? How do you deal with the O2 sensors? How many are there? Where are they? Chances are, someone has already done this. Why reinvent the wheel? Learn from the community.

Now, like it or not, both aftermarket and community support is largely based on the popularity of the car. You may not want or even like the idea of a Civic or F-body track car. But the fact is lots of people do. Therefore there is a huge array of aftermarket parts and enthusiast knowledge that makes the whole process easier.

Other criteria are as follows...

Car should be a small and light, but be as practical as possible. You will want to carry wheels and tires. Tool kits. A small compressor. Spare pads. Bleeder kit. A cooler. A folding chair. An umbrella. Maybe even a sleeping bag. Or a co-driver. blah blah. etc. Unless you want to buy a small tire trailer, a larger car with back seats and a trunk is very helpful in this regard. Both the Miata and the Boxster have a problem with this, but I included them in my suggestion list anyway.

Car should be easy to drive, have no major handling defects (that isn't easily curable) and have a margin of safety. Simple enough. Ideally, the car should also have a fixed roof. Because one day you may roll it. Despite that, I have two verts on my list because you can still install a roll cage.

Car should have room to grow. One day, you may get tired of getting passed by a relative beginner in a 997 Turbo on a straight, only to catch him at the next turn and get stuck behind him for the next 4, waiting for him to give you the point by. The option of more power in the future is always good.

Unless you are an amputee and missing one leg or one arm, car should be manual transmission or a semi-automatic manual that will absolutely, positively hold a gear even if it means bouncing off the rev limiter. This has absolutely nothing to do with which shifts faster. This is 100% about control.

<Auto rant begins here>

Imagine you are at an autocross. There is a short straight into a 'bus stop' (a chicane), which is a tight kink to the left (or right), then another kink back to the right (or left). Often, they are followed by another short straight or increasing radius turn. Exit speed is crucial and the whole thing happens in about 2 seconds.

Most manual cars in most autocrosses can execute most bus stops in 2nd gear. You brake, turn in, rotate the car and accelerate out. Torque is there when you need it, just a brush of the throttle away. If you need to rotate the car with the throttle, its not an issue.

But what happens when you approach in an auto? You brake. The auto decides that since you lifted off the throttle, it needs to upshift. Probably to 5th. The car becomes slightly unsettled because the load on the drivetrain has changed. Then you turn in and begin to flick the car in the other direction.

You hit the throttle and then... nothing... The transmission is asleep in 4th or 5th gear. A second passes, which is an eternity in autocross. You are now 10, 15 feet out of the box and onto your increasing radius sweeper where you must accelerate as much as possible or loose time. Finally, the autobox figures out you need power and you needed it yestarday, so it kicks down into 2nd or maybe even 1st.

..which happens when you're about half way out of the turn. If your car has a lot of power, it now completely unsettles the chassis, because all the torque comes in a huge, hard to control wave. If you are FWD, you will now push to the outside, going wide. If you are RWD, you will probably get a little or a lot loose. If you are AWD, you may do either or both. It's even worse if your car has a modest amount of power. Your car may stay under control, but you just threw away 1.5 to 2 seconds where you could have been accelerating.

Some autos are better than others, but they all have this problem to some degree. Some of the older ones might hold a gear. If it feels like it. But you never know because they have minds of their own.

Some of the newer ones are even pretty good and will indeed hold a gear no matter what happens, so if you decide an auto is best for you, make sure you at least have one of those. But any auto that upshifts or downshifts without input from you (which is almost all of them) is an automatic FAIL, in my opinion.

</auto rant ends>

Anyway, I've gone on for way longer than I intended...

All of the cars I put in my list successfully meets all the criteria I just stated. They have a large, well developed aftermarket and enthusiast fan base. They are all fun to drive in their own way and have plenty of room to grow.

Personally, I'm most likely going with an E36 325i when I finally buy a track car. I am comfortable driving them fast. They are cheap and plentiful, well documented and over the last 15 years, I have amassed plain stupid amounts of knowledge on them. I've also given some though on a 350Z or even a C5 as well, but it depends on the budget I have to work with.

Honestly, though. The easiest, most trouble free way to get into a track car is to get one already built. You miss out on the process, which is part of the point, but you also miss out on the expense and pain of getting it where it needs to be. So don't discount that option either.

Yet many people are still suggesting both the Camaro and the M3.

I dunno what everyone else's excuse is, but I was drunk Besides, I think the exclusions were somewhat arbitrary.


M

 

[JCE]

Are you crazy? I've seen over 280 WHP from those without alot of work. They are over built being truck engine and are cheap to get ahold of if you break anything.

Much cheaper than doing an SR20DET swap or such.

Not true, they are good for tuning, and can actually hold more power on the stock bottom end than the sr20det.

I'm going to agree to disagree on this issue and move on.

Most of those seem like what I'm after. On the Prelude and Focus though, how much potential is there in them. I wouldn't mind replicating an RS in the end.

I think I will now. You and others have mentioned the Fox Body, so it must be pretty good.

The Prelude is a great handling car--some say its too heavy--I say stripped out and with a good LSD it would be a good autox'er. The Focus is the same way, a good suspension setup + a good LSD and it would be a good autox'er--my only problem with Focus' as track cars is the serious lack of power from the anemic USDM ZETEC 2.0L engine. You'll need to put quite alot of money in it to even get 200whp N/A. There is a jackson racing roots supercharger for it (if memory serves) which has very good throttle response and all the extra power you need after you go N/A tuning.

And as for the Mustang...

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.j...oors=&transmission=&max_price=6000&cardist=20
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/93-F...oryZ6236QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1993...oryZ6236QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1993...oryZ6236QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1990...oryZ6236QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1993...oryZ6236QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I'd prefer the foxbody over the fbody for autox--but I'm sure you could probably get a similar result with an fbody. I feel the fbody is too nose heavy--unless you're using a V6 with some FI or an all aluminum engine.

 

[Azuremen]

i would personally suggest going to scca's website and downloading some of the rule books so that you can see what classes your mr2 would be competitive in

i would try a production class first just to get the hang of it and if you like it you can move yourself into a modified class like ITE

but as far as a car to start with your mr2 is just fine

Thats my MR2, not McLaren's Its in Street Mod 2 for Solo II due to the engine swap.

88 and 89 year models had a supercharged version. The engine options on the Mk1 MR2 are the 4A-GE (120HP) and the 4A-GZE (145HP). Hardtop models weigh about 2300 lbs, with you going up to 2500~2600 with a T-top.

Of the Mk2 MR2s, the only worth getting is the turbo really, which has a 3S-GTE making 200HP stock. You can make over 400 HP on stock internals with a 3S-GTE. The non turbo is rubbish using the 5S-FE from the Camry. Only thing those are really good for is pulling out and dropping in the V6 from the Camry and supercharging it. The Mk2 weighs over 2600 lbs in lightest trim, but it is very hard to find a turbo that has a hard top.

The Mk3 MR2s, the Spyder, have the the 1ZZ-FE (125HP) from the Corolla. However, it is a relatively straight forward swap to put the 2ZZ-GE (180HP) from the Celica GT-S in there. The Mk3 weighs about 2150 lbs.

The best autocross car out of the bunch would be the Mk3's, as they are the lightest and most modern. They handle far more neutrally than previous generations, and are an excellent comparison to a Miata. However, the after market on them is a bit smaller, as there was not alot of interest in the 1ZZ-FE, or for that matter, the whole car in general.

The Mk2 has the largest direct after market for MR2s, due to the huge power obtainable from the 3S-GTE. However, expect a fairly good condition late model, such as a 94, to run nearly 10 grand. At which point you could just by an MR-S (Mk3)

The Mk1 though has the largest indirect after market, due to the drifting craze making 4A-GE parts popular. The engine was used in the AE82, AE86, and AE92. Which includes the Corolla, Nova, and Prizm. And then you have the 4A-GE's from the AE101 and AE111. The C52 transmission was also widely used, and the 6speed from AE111 can be swapped if you want to change the bell housings.