Gran Premio di San Marino 2005

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Nissan, Mitsubishi etc would probably love to join F1...unfortunately with the amount of money involved to compete i highly doubt those ailing companies could ever join...

odd side note...i heard somewhere that honda or maybe toyota were trying to join NASCAR but they were blocked somehow by the american manufacturers?...any truth to this?...

if it is true its obvious they knew they would be demolished by toyota or honda...the US market is too big and NASCAR is too easy for them to fail...haha that would be hilarious...imagine taku dominating NASCAR in a honda...hicks would be running around like chickens with their heads cut off...
 
786
Nissan, Mitsubishi etc would probably love to join F1...unfortunately with the amount of money involved to compete i highly doubt those ailing companies could ever join...

odd side note...i heard somewhere that honda or maybe toyota were trying to join NASCAR but they were blocked somehow by the american manufacturers?...any truth to this?...

if it is true its obvious they knew they would be demolished by toyota or honda...the US market is too big and NASCAR is too easy for them to fail...haha that would be hilarious...imagine taku dominating NASCAR in a honda...hicks would be running around like chickens with their heads cut off...
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Nissan I can see in F1...Mistubishi, noooo...WRC is the place for them, like Subaru.

Toyota/TRD is currently in the NASCAR truck series and they are entering USAC sprint cars next season (feeder series to NASCAR). The entry into the truck series for Toyota has seemed smooth, though I don't follow NASCAR that closely. However Cup is a whole 'nother story. NASCAR is very pro US auto-makers as if their fan base. Even though Toyota makes a ton of cars in the USA, maybe more than GM or Ford...they are still seen as a foreign make...beyond that a Japanese make.

NASCAR may be huge and have a solid marketting savvy...but underlying all that is still good 'ole boy southern roots. Thus anything foreign and especially japanese is bad....

ALl this being said I expect to see Toyota in the the NASCAR Nextel cup series in the next 5 years. The good 'ole boys be damned!
 
kensei
Nissan I can see in F1...Mistubishi, noooo...WRC is the place for them, like Subaru.

Toyota/TRD is currently in the NASCAR truck series and they are entering USAC sprint cars next season (feeder series to NASCAR). The entry into the truck series for Toyota has seemed smooth, though I don't follow NASCAR that closely. However Cup is a whole 'nother story. NASCAR is very pro US auto-makers as if their fan base. Even though Toyota makes a ton of cars in the USA, maybe more than GM or Ford...they are still seen as a foreign make...beyond that a Japanese make.

NASCAR may be huge and have a solid marketting savvy...but underlying all that is still good 'ole boy southern roots. Thus anything foreign and especially japanese is bad....

ALl this being said I expect to see Toyota in the the NASCAR Nextel cup series in the next 5 years. The good 'ole boys be damned!
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what i meant was besides toyota and honda i cant really see any other japanese company enter F1 because of the costs...

ahh ok see i dont know very much at all about NASCAR so this is all news to me...ya i see what you are saying...i can understand there being alot of internal pressure not to allow a Toyota or a Honda to join but i think, as you said, in the end they will look like cowards if they block them...
 
kensei
You know...as close as the engineers and driver's are in F1 I don't think that is valid. Driver's know their car setups on a very intimate level. Yes, it isn't JB's job to verify the car conforming to the rules but the driver should have an understanding of the rules and what he and his engineer's can and can't do. I would think the choice to balast with fuel was the engineer's who probably told JB about it, probably saying it was within the rules and JB said ok. Now if I was a driver and was unsure I might have someone check the rules for me.

Eitherway there is something very wrong at BAR. It started when JB tried to jump ship (stupidly) and got worst when Richards was canned. If their isn't intentional cheating going on their is a huge lack of communication which is many ways is a bigger issue.

Any respect I had for JB went away when the willimas stuff came out...now my loathing bridges the entire team. Though I like Sato-san, I will admit that.

....
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Kensei, viewed on this angle, I have to say I agree with you. The only thing I don't know is the difference between the weight the car is ans the weight it should be. Playing such a dangerous game, in order to gain just a few tenths is dangerous in my opinion, I would be astonished that they really tried this. On the otther side if it's a mistake, you're right, they should not have made it.
A 3rd possibility could be that the car lost some lest during the race ? (even if not usual, I admit).

I agree with you about the "button gate", it should never have happened, especially as BAR was in a good situation. Jenson should have understand that he would hurt his team, especially Honda people (japanese code of honor). For me too, the presence of D. Richards was good and I think BAR miss him now. He paid for a lack of efficency on the sponsoring side.
And like you, I support Takuma, I really hope he will stay in F1, even if Honda gets out (we never know). He once again showed a great ability to overtake in San Marin.



kensei
It's hard for me. McLaren have two of my three favorite drivers this season but I just can't cheer for mcLaren. I've never been able to and I dislike Mercedes even more. It's not that I dislike McLaren but they are just so boring and seem to have their priorities all out of wack the past few seasons and F1 seems like an annoyance they would just rather not deal with.

I can't see Kimi or Alonso not ending up in a red car someday soon. I doubt both would end up there together but it will be one or the other. Then again by the time this happens Ferrari will be a much different team than it is now. So will be McLaren and who knows if Renault will still be in the game at all.

My feeling is that if Renault win the Constructor's and Driver's titles that will be their out. They will come back for a season or two and then leave F1 all together....
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Very interesting, we might have the exact same opinions about F1.....like you I don't really like Mac Laren (I really find Ron a bad loser , systematically denigrating the others, especially Ferrari), and I also dislike Mercedes more.

Like you I think Fernando or Kimi will be part of the Scuderia one day, when Michael will stop his reign.
I also agree with you about Renault ; and this is a danger for F1. All of the manufacturers are here in order to increase their sales. When the target is reached (or if not !!) they just get out.

Regards,

Snypa
 
786
phenomenal race of course...the last 10 laps were fantastic...looks kinda like a changing of the guard with alonso and schumi :)

kimis horrible luck continues and fisi made a very stupid error...props to ferrari for being competitive again...hopefully this season will continue to be as exciting as it has been so far...
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Fisi had a drive shaft failure iirc. certainly wasnt driver error
 
Fisi had been struggling with oversteer for the entire race, I don't think there was any driveshaft fai8lure (maybe you're thinking of Kimi), I think the car just got away from Fisi.

Blake
 
786
i believe the FIA decided to take no further action against BAR so they keep their points...

BBC were reporting last night that the FIA were appealing against the stewards decision to allow Button to retain his points.

As to Alonso.../scratches head trying to think of the number of times he's thrown it off under pressure..... well there may have been a couple last season... but with *that* car?

Anyway.... next race, Alonso's got the fresh engine and Schuey's got the used one.. :trouble:

And Nissan rather than Renault in F1? Why?? Renault have a long history in F1, Nissan have never participated.
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JEC
Anyway.... next race, Alonso's got the fresh engine and Schuey's got the used one.. :trouble:
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Won't matter, unless Ferrai have an engine failure (not gonna happen).

Though alonso willl have the "B" engine, so maybe a bit of a boost. Renault will also be testing this week (as will McLaren, Williams, ferrari, Minardi, Red Bull and Toyota) so maybe they can catch up some lost ground.

McLaren will also have big revisions for spain, so it's hard to tell the form at the moment, but I'd have to say from the pace Michael had Ferrari are the favourites.

Blake
 
It means that Alonso won't be running at a reduced pace all weekend. Also, has a Ferrari engine actually completed two races at race pace yet this season?
 
JEC
It means that Alonso won't be running at a reduced pace all weekend. Also, has a Ferrari engine actually completed two races at race pace yet this season?
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I dunno what you'd call race pace, but Michaels 2004 engine (back in the days when they only had to last 1 race) lasted over Part of the Aussie race and all of Malaysia if that counts as anything.

Blake
 
Crash.net have done a poll regarding ITVs ability to show the F1 and 95% say they shouldn't have it.


Daan- I also left remarks on the ITV website and have done previously to ask if they will ever show quali 2 live. Have you had any response from them yet?
 
JEC
It means that Alonso won't be running at a reduced pace all weekend. Also, has a Ferrari engine actually completed two races at race pace yet this season?
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Yes, remember Sauber has been running the F2005's engine all season. While in the first two races Ferrari ran an older engine. Plus the retirements for Ferrari haven't been engine related...they have been brakes, tires, transmission and being punted off.

Again, it doesn't matter. The second race weekend teams might run less practice laps but they certianly don't not push their used engines in the race...
 
SouL
Hahahaha
BAR could be kicked out of F1 if they're found guilty of cheating.
Uh oh.
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Please explane how you came to this, because theres no way you can get kicked out. You can get docked points and stuff but i have never heard of being kicked out of f1
 
gt4racerca
Please explane how you came to this, because theres no way you can get kicked out. You can get docked points and stuff but i have never heard of being kicked out of f1
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No I read this too... Toyota was kicked out of Rallye for 2 years and somethig like this could happen again.... decision of FIA next week... I hope Honda has not cheated, would be huge loss....
 
I have no idea if it's a permanent ban. I assume there would be lots of nasty loopholes to deal with, such as if some of the team bosses decide to create a new team, or join existing teams. But I'd guess we'll be kept up to speed on the FIA's ban process if it comes to that.
 
Max_DC
No I read this too... Toyota was kicked out of Rallye for 2 years and somethig like this could happen again.... decision of FIA next week... I hope Honda has not cheated, would be huge loss....
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thats odd...i heard toyota was banned from competing in WRC for life?...something about illegal intake manifolds?...cant really remember...

well spain will definately be a phenomenal race...alonso will be giving 110% and so will schumi...i seem to remember daly saying that the points deficit he now faces to alonso is the most he has ever had to try and overcome...should be a great season :)
 
kensei
Yes, remember Sauber has been running the F2005's engine all season. While in the first two races Ferrari ran an older engine. Plus the retirements for Ferrari haven't been engine related...they have been brakes, tires, transmission and being punted off.

Again, it doesn't matter. The second race weekend teams might run less practice laps but they certianly don't not push their used engines in the race...
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Re Sauber: fair point, but will the Saubers be pushing the engines as hard as the Ferraris? Difficult to tell.

Re rest of 1st para: all that means is they haven't seen what happens towards the end of race 2. Unknown quantity.

Re para 2: But that's exactly what Alonso was doing all last weekend. Reduced revs so as not to strain the engine. Now, maybe Ferrari won't be in that position, but .. we don't know.
 
Just an irregulaity on the www.formula1.com, and cant find anything explaining it, in the live timeing archive Ralf Schumacher finished 8 but in final results it says 11 BEHIND Heidfield, Webber & Luizzi, only noticed it after checking when i read that Webber could be elevated into points if Button is disqualified which made me think - 'How is that possible? Heidfield was ahead of him in 9????' Anyone else know if Ralf had a last lap spin or something of the sort that did not come up in live timing?
 
786
thats odd...i heard toyota was banned from competing in WRC for life?...something about illegal intake manifolds?...cant really remember...
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Toyota was banned in 1995 after the FIA discovered a system which allowed their cars to increase power over 300PS (the limit). The 300HP were controlled by a system which could limit the amount of air provided to the Turbo, resulting as a control over the power delivered by the engine.

Toyota managed to "fool" (I don't know how to say) the system, by making it moving while the turbo was functionning. The more the pressure of the Turbo increased, and the more the system opened, allowing much more air to be introduced in the Turbo, increasing power. When the engine was stopped, the system came back to its original position.

The system was very clever 💡 , but the cars were so quick with this, that it became clear there was something wrong. The team was banned for a complete year.

As for BAR, and if it's proved they cheated like this, the punishment could be very tough. On the other side, F1 suffers from a lack of competitors, so I'm not sure BAR will be banned for a year......money can solve many problems !

After the end of 2000 in F1, Max Mosley revealed that a team had cheated, but he never said the name (there were suspicions around mac Laren, but that's all). And there was no sanction.

I really hope this story can be explained by a misunderstood, the F1 does'nt need such problems at the moment. :nervous:
 
Although I'm not a huge fan of BAR it would be horrible to lose a team, the punishment will be severe, possibly BAR will not get any championship points for the whole year, but I doubt that the FIA will stop them from running altogether, it would be too bad for the sport.

Blake
 
Relevant examples in F1:

Tyrrell 1984 - found to have ingenious system - the exact details of which I forget! - which allowed them to run underweight during the race. Disqualified from championship.

Williams & Brabham, 1982 - Cars disqualified from 1 and 2 in Brazil due to beign underweight.

Guess it depends how long the FIA take to find out ;)
 
JEC
So what? No commitment there from them to not do it again...
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I'll agree with you on that. It sounds very empty. I still get the impression that they could give a rat's fat ass. It sounds more like a, "Yeah, yeah, yeah; we heard ya. Now, shut up already!"
 

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