Gran Turismo 2, Remastered

[syntex123]

With the news of PD yet again failing to keep their set release date of yet another game, Gran Turismo Sport feels a little less appealing to those of us that actually looked forward to get our hands on the game.

Some of us are hard core fans since GT1, and love each game in their own way, and even though the latest games (5&6) had its shortcomings and flaws, we managed to look past them and play them just as much as the early games. The PS2-era brought the finest game so far, the mind-blowing GT4, featuring a broad vehicle selection and the possibility to play the game in 1080i. This was an incredible achievement for a game of its era.

What I suggest is simple. Make a remaster version of our favourite game, while we wait for Gran Turismo Sport to finally hit the shelves. A lot of you say this a lot in the main forums, PD should make a remastered version of Gran Turismo 2. It doesn't have to be all "premium cars", semi-premium would suffice for such a remastered version.

If you have anything to add, please do! And if you like the idea of a remastered version, please give this suggestion a like, and be sure to share it!

Martin out.

 

[Heavyduke]

With the news of PD yet again failing to keep their set release date of yet another game, Gran Turismo Sport feels a little less appealing to those of us that actually looked forward to get our hands on the game.

Some of us are hard core fans since GT1, and love each game in their own way, and even though the latest games (5&6) had its shortcomings and flaws, we managed to look past them and play them just as much as the early games. The PS2-era brought the finest game so far, the mind-blowing GT4, featuring a broad vehicle selection and the possibility to play the game in 1080i. This was an incredible achievement for a game of its era.

What I suggest is simple. Make a remaster version of our favourite game, while we wait for Gran Turismo Sport to finally hit the shelves. A lot of you say this a lot in the main forums, PD should make a remastered version of Gran Turismo 2. It doesn't have to be all "premium cars", semi-premium would suffice for such a remastered version.

If you have anything to add, please do! And if you like the idea of a remastered version, please give this suggestion a like, and be sure to share it!

Martin out.

Remasterd music could be cool.

 

[Eric Demory]

If PD came out with a remastered collection of GT1 to GT4, like the PS2 games that were upscaled to the PS4, we would all be occupied for at least a year or two while PD works on GT7. Instead of the obsessive complaints over the delays and bogeys PD delivers for the upcoming title.

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

-> I could just imagine a Remastered GT2 would have:

1. Original OST plus Best Of from previous games.

2. Graphics similar to GT4 or close to the intro movie-quality (in PS1 standards of course):

3. Physics like GT3.

4. Vehicle sounds of GT5.

5. Previously unreleased tracks that were omitted during development and/or released in other GT series (ex. Prologue & Concept series),

6. We will finally see SSR11 in GT2!

7. Basically a GT2 if it was never rushed for its release date. History tells us that GT2 was intensely rushed for its Xmas '99 holiday season release, hence with its unfinished graphics (IMHO) & an overall buggy mess!!

^ Heck, just call it Gran Turismo Remastered and call it a day! Not a true GT sequel, but more like a Greatest Hits Anthology!

 

[Heavyduke]

-> I could just imagine a Remastered GT2 would have:

1. Original OST plus Best Of from previous games.

2. Graphics similar to GT4 or close to the intro movie-quality (in PS1 standards of course):

3. Physics like GT3.

4. Vehicle sounds of GT5.

5. Previously unreleased tracks that were omitted during development and/or released in other GT series (ex. Prologue & Concept series),

6. We will finally see SSR11 in GT2!

7. Basically a GT2 if it was never rushed for its release date. History tells us that GT2 was intensely rushed for its Xmas '99 holiday season release, hence with its unfinished graphics (IMHO) & an overall buggy mess!!

^ Heck, just call it Gran Turismo Remastered and call it a day! Not a true GT sequel, but more like a Greatest Hits Anthology!

"Comment coming soon"

 

[karelpipa]

Remaster is impossible unless they completely overhaul the car marks and models in the game. Its been discussed many times here on GTP that ie Vector is nonexistent and nobody can gain a licence of their cars.
Would love to see new cars being made for PS1+ standard though. (better textures, lighting and trackside objects and 120 fps included)

 

[Losco]

I would actually love to have GT4 on my PS4 instead. It would be glorious and it could be pretty easy. C'mon Sony, give us some good old GT

 

[syntex123]

Thought about writing about adding GT4 to the remaster list aswell, it couldn't be that hard. Just a slight overhaul to the textures and update it with current physics and make it 1080p60fps native and voilá. That game would probably be more successful than GT Sport.

 

[karelpipa]

If you think about it, it is very sad.

 

[syntex123]

Yeah @karelpipa. It is. Many devs make a remaster or remake, so why can't PD

 

[karelpipa]

i did not mean it like this. I meant that is sad that a remake would be more succesfull than a new game. Supposedly better in everything. At least with over 10 years technology advancement.

 

[GranTurismo guy]

As much as I'd love to have this, I don't want anything distracting them from finishing GT Sport. It's taking them long enough as it is to release something for the ps4.

 

[JKgo]

...I'd love a HD remaster of a GT2. Or GT3. Or GT4.

But unlike most HD updates, GT can't get one, simply because licencing issues, I feel.

GT2 had what, 500+ cars? Imagine trying to get licencing for many of them - it'd be not just a logistical nightmare, it'd be also a breathtaking devourer of money.

And let's not forget, it can't be just a graphical overhaul, but the physics needs to be updated to match what PDI have currently on GT:S. The controllers and wheels have advanced in their sensitivity and construction over the years, so the same physics might not work as well as our memories have us believe.

So, even if PDI outsource the dev, a big if, it still won't be financially feasible.

Oh well.

 

[syntex123]

A GT4 remaster would be the most realistic, then. Since they could use the GT6 car list with all tracks from GT4-6, and update the physics.

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

-> ...

GT2 had what, 500+ cars?

^ More or less, 600 cars estimated.

...unlike most HD updates, GT can't get one, simply because licensing issues, I feel.

Imagine trying to get licensing for many of them - it'd be not just a logistical nightmare, it'd be also a breathtaking devourer of money.

^ This might be the biggest hurdle on any real-life based game no matter what genre. Fantasy/Sci-Fi based games does not have to overcome this BIG problem, hence many developers pooping out more and more remasters no matter if the game is good or bad.

-> Plus Vector is almost non-existent these days, check out its non-functioning website!

And let's not forget, it can't be just a graphical overhaul, but the physics needs to be updated to match what PDI have currently on GT:S. The controllers and wheels have advanced in their sensitivity and construction over the years, so the same physics might not work as well as our memories have us believe.

^ Complying to GTS physics programming on GTR would be an overkill.

-> Whats wrong with recycling GT3 physics architecture? Sure GTR won't be a top-tier game, but more of a leisure sim-cade racing game.

-> The original DualShock controller functions was 98% carried over onto the DS2 (without DS2s touch-sensitivity) when I played GT2 on my PS2, the DS3 Wireless was functional (even with rumble function) when I played GT3! But the rumble does not work on GT2 while using a PS3. A simple remapping on the DS4 controller to comply with the GT3s physics mapping will be sufficient enough.

RMB = Rumble Feature
TSB = Touch Sensitive Buttons

DS1 -wired- (GT2)
RMB

DS2 -wired- (GT2 / GT3)
RMB / RMB-TSB

DS2 -on PS3- (GT2 / GT3) [with a very rare PS2/DS2-to-PS3 adaptor, yes I have one]
na / TSB

DS3 -wireless- (GT2 / GT3)
na / RMB-TSB

So, even if PDI outsource the dev, a big if, it still won't be financially feasible.

^ There are a lot of notable 3rd party developers the are sitting idle somewhere, but the development difficulty to do this is as big as trying to build a sucky mobile game to be honest. It's just a matter of bit-by-bit modifications.

-> Plus, building GTR will be a far more affordable venture than getting a Tourist Trophy 2 released (if ever that happens).

 

[karelpipa]

Did you turn on the rumble function? I think my DS2 supports rumble on PS3. I am sure it works with GT5/GT6.

 

[JKgo]

Complying to GTS physics programming on GTR would be an overkill.

...GTR? Uh... What? I'm lost. Oh wait, is that for GT Remaster? Oh, okay then.

Anyway, to me it makes sense, because as a developer, PDI had been continuously refining their physics engine for the last 17+ years. It makes little sense to not update the old one that won't gel well with what's expected of in the current market.

The original DualShock controller functions was 98% carried over onto the DS2 (without DS2s touch-sensitivity) when I played GT2 on my PS2, the DS3 Wireless was functional (even with rumble function) when I played GT3! But the rumble does not work on GT2 while using a PS3. A simple remapping on the DS4 controller to comply with the GT3s physics mapping will be sufficient enough.

Dunno anything about technical hullabaloos, but one thing's for sure - playing my PS1 copy of Die Hard triology on PS3 sure feels different with a DS3. Never mind the shaky rumble thingies, the input lag, unused buttons that can potentially be utilized for extra functions, and the digital, rather than analog input on DS4, does necessiate some amount of overhaul in the controller side of things if you want to play a racing game on it.

I'm talking about PS1 era GTs obviously. With PS2 era GTs, hmm, isn't the lack of touch sensitivity in DS4 an issue? That might need a redressing too.

And then there's the wheels/pedals. Admittedly, I know even less about the peripherals so am not 100% certain about it, but surely, technology must've moved on since the days of early GTs.

There are a lot of notable 3rd party developers the are sitting idle somewhere, but the development difficulty to do this is as big as trying to build a sucky mobile game to be honest. It's just a matter of bit-by-bit modifications.

That may be true about the idle devs all over the world, but not being any more tougher than a mobile? Nah, mate, developing a mobile game is deceptively tougher than you are led to believe.

Lemme put it to you this way: there have ever been only four Playstation consoles. Their gubbins had basically stayed the same through each generations.

Can you estimate the number of differing phones with differing versions of firmwares running on them in the world? Massive, is what it is. Making a mobile game to work on most of them without bugs is one helluva undertaking, something even the biggest tech companies don't manage right out the gate.

A GT4 remaster would be the most realistic, then. Since they could use the GT6 car list with all tracks from GT4-6, and update the physics.

...Indeed, it should be. The car lists in GT5 and 6 (standard cars anyway) are basically from GT4 anyway. Almost.

But will PDI do it? If I was a betting man, I'd say no, but in an ideal world....

Spoiler

 

[mallucm]

My personal favourite GT game is GT4 (I've only played GT3, 4, 5 and 6 excluding prologues and ones like GT Concept 2002 Tokyo-Geneva). I love the physics and depth of the game itself! If Polyphony remastered GT4 but added online and more cars and tracks in addition to the ones already in the game and gave it the physics from GT6 (or Sport), it would be absolutely incredible in my opinion! I haven't played the first 2 Gran Turismo games so I can't really say much about those, but in my opinion this would be amazing!

 

[Samus]

As has already been noted the impossible stumbling block for this is licensing. When companies license anything to another company they do so on a specific instruction. "We allow you to use X specifically only with Y or for Z amount of time". So in PDs case they were given permission to include a car or track on a disc of Gran Turismo 2/4 which would be sold commercially. That's it. Companies very rarely, if ever, say "Yes you can use our assets in any product you like, in any format you like, at any time" for reasons that should be obvious.

You can experience this quite easily yourself, go to any online photo licensor. They will charge a seperate fee to include their image on a website and in print and you'll be restricted to using it only on one/certain pages. Just because you licensed the photo it's not yours to use however and whenever you want.

That means every single licensed product in those games, every car, track etc would have to be re-licensed and a new deal agreed to include them on a different product, even if it's just a digital version of the original in the store. That was not an agreed usage back in the day.

That is why I'm afraid it will simply never happen.

 

[syntex123]

Okay how about this. A retro styled new game.

 

[Heavyduke]

Or a regular GT4 plain and simple.

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

-> ...

Did you turn on the rumble function? I think my DS2 supports rumble on PS3. I am sure it works with GT5/GT6.

^ Already tried it, just look on my list above.

Anyway, to me it makes sense, because as a developer, PDI had been continuously refining their physics engine for the last 17+ years. It makes little sense to not update the old one that won't gel well with what's expected of in the current market.

^ The best example to make this controller modification theory is the PSP versions of God of War onto the PS3. I believe by re-coding GT3 (which is a re-code of GT2) onto applying into a PS4 controller won't be much of a big deal especially given on how big whatever the developer may be plus the old data file from GT3 is still lurking within the offices at PD.

Dunno anything about technical hullabaloos, but one thing's for sure - playing my PS1 copy of Die Hard triology on PS3 sure feels different with a DS3. Never mind the shaky rumble thingies, the input lag, unused buttons that can potentially be utilized for extra functions, and the digital, rather than analog input on DS4, does necessitate some amount of overhaul in the controller side of things if you want to play a racing game on it.

I'm talking about PS1 era GTs obviously. With PS2 era GTs, hmm, isn't the lack of touch sensitivity in DS4 an issue? That might need a redressing too.

^ DS4 has touch sensitivity, although not as smooth as DS3. I agree, the wireless controllers are laggy and lacking its tactile feel while playing PS1 games on PS3 (and I still do play GT2 and occasionally GT1). But these issues/problems were reduced quite significantly on playing PS2 games on PS3.

-> And heh, heh, I've also played Die Hard back in the day! 👍

And then there's the wheels/pedals. Admittedly, I know even less about the peripherals so am not 100% certain about it, but surely, technology must've moved on since the days of early GTs.

^ That is true, and I won't argue with that. But GTR will be marketed as a leisure game (like GTC & GT Prologues) rather than a "full-on hardcore simulation for consoles" like the true GT sequels and the upcoming GTS.

That may be true about the idle devs all over the world, but not being any more tougher than a mobile? Nah, mate, developing a mobile game is deceptively tougher than you are led to believe.

Lemme put it to you this way: there have ever been only four Playstation consoles. Their gubbins had basically stayed the same through each generations.

Can you estimate the number of differing phones with differing versions of firmwares running on them in the world? Massive, is what it is. Making a mobile game to work on most of them without bugs is one helluva undertaking, something even the biggest tech companies don't manage right out the gate.

^ Um, there are no more than 2 popular mobile OS systems (iOS & Android), like programming multiple console games there are specific and minor modifications on certain OS systems. Phone-specific problems are tackled when bugs arises as they arrive. And I highlighted "sucky" mobile games, not those top-tier games.

As has already been noted the impossible stumbling block for this is licensing. When companies license anything to another company they do so on a specific instruction. "We allow you to use X specifically only with Y or for Z amount of time". So in PDs case they were given permission to include a car or track on a disc of Gran Turismo 2/4 which would be sold commercially. That's it. Companies very rarely, if ever, say "Yes you can use our assets in any product you like, in any format you like, at any time" for reasons that should be obvious.

You can experience this quite easily yourself, go to any online photo licensor. They will charge a seperate fee to include their image on a website and in print and you'll be restricted to using it only on one/certain pages. Just because you licensed the photo it's not yours to use however and whenever you want.

That means every single licensed product in those games, every car, track etc would have to be re-licensed and a new deal agreed to include them on a different product, even if it's just a digital version of the original in the store. That was not an agreed usage back in the day.

^ Unfortunately, that is a huge blow to this seemingly simple and attainable project. Guess I have to create my own racing game then...lol

 

[JakeMR2]

As much as I like the idea, and it is worth porting to the next gen systems, which they may have to find the models from GT2 and GT1, and they could be obscure nowadays. I want someone to mod GT2 with extra options, features, the beta car-color palette, beta HUD from the scenes from "The Making of GT2", which would lead into the modding forum of the series.

We need more hackers and modders that understand the GT2 layout, etc, etc. We already have access to the files, and could possibly be modded like a PC game, and anything is possible now. We have the resources we need to complete.

We could even make the "Drag Racing" option available from the old beta OPM demos.

I just think it would take developement time out of GT: Sport, even though the game could be highly flawed in some aspects of gameplay, menus, and the such.

 

[Samus]

Okay how about this. A retro styled new game.

Who would make it though? PD obviously don't have the time and they're too proud to outsource anything.

 

[syntex123]

They could make their Venice/Amsterdam office make it. @Samus

 

[Grandea GTR]

Yeah @karelpipa. It is. Many devs make a remaster or remake, so why can't PD

Licensing issues, I would assume.

 

[harrison1476]

I'd be fine with a GT5/GT6 on PS4, I just want a GT game to play up until release of GTS

 

[azidahaka]

I'm in love with gt4 since ages... I still consider it the best GT ever released.

Replaying it with up to date features online would be a joy even with it's weird and funny physics and glitches

 

[The Vanishing Boy]

-> ...

I'm in love with gt4 since ages... I still consider it the best GT ever released.

Replaying it with up to date features online would be a joy even with it's weird and funny physics and glitches

^ GT4's physics was a major turn-off to a masterpiece of a game. Screw the engine sound haters, I'm ok with that. But the FWD-biased physics (even on RWD cars) was a simple nightmare!

 

[RagingDaemon]

I got my copy of GT2 out and looking in the manual I see "The Vector M12 is a trademark of Vector Automotive and used under license to Sony Computer Entertainment".

Vector may be defunct but shouldn't it be just as straightforward as reaching a deal/contract/whatever with whoever holds the right to the name Vector Automotive for the license to reproduce their cars for the game?

The one for Lotus says "Lotus, Elan, Elise, Esprit and associated logos, emblems and body designs are trademarks and/or intellectual property of Group Lotus Limited and are used under license to Sony Computer Entertainment"

Does that mean that if I bought a license to use the Lotus name and Esprit from Group Lotus Limited, does that mean I could legally reproduce The Esprit SE, S4, GT1, and 350 Sport etc. under that one heading for a game? Or would there need to be a unique deal for each car?

I would be very interested in knowing what exactly goes into licensing for a game of this magnitude.