Gran Turismo 7 Update 1.71 Arrives With Major Physics Changes & Fanatec FullForce Support

[Kriptical]

I don't know what you guys are talking about, my wife always tells me how cool and sexy I look when I'm in the rig with my VR headset on.

My wife loves it. Tells me to upgrade even. She know’s its cheaper than a fun car, more importantly, it’s safer than hitting the back roads, to burn off steam, after work.

-We have fantastic back roads. But they bite, if you get brave, or unlucky.

 

[LeMansLambo14]

I've never played with a wheel, but from everything I've read since the changeover it seems that you need to spend a couple of thousand on a top gaming rig setup to make GT7 viable now. I can't do that because 1) I haven't got a spare room to dedicate to it, and 2) My wife would leave me if she thought I was that childish.
Playing on a controller felt like a really badly executed arcade game following 1.71, so I've got no choice but to quit. I do feel a bit angry that PD have just been so blase about writing off all the controller users, but hey, there are more important things in life.

Even if you stick with the controller, I would encourage you to have a look at why you aren't enjoying the physics and work from there (particular handling characteristics etc.)

 

[Lion-Face]

Having only just fired up gt7 since the update, I like the changes. It feels less precision is required in finely balancing throttle and steering input, but more on accuracy and car positioning. How true that is I dunno as its my initial impressions, but as a controller user now, I like it alot.

 

[Voodoovaj]

I haven't gone back to the default ABS since the update, so maybe that has something to do with the difference in opinion. I find ABS weak now has a great feel to it, and you have to BE half way decent at trail braking to get the most out of it.

Also, I have not experienced the automatic counter-steering assistance that some mentioned. So, again, maybe it's something in the standard ABS.

Also, given I've spent most of the last year in the custom race feature, Sophy and the GR3 cars is really good. Those saying otherwise may be doing something wrong. At the moment, I am more confident of a Sport Mode win than a Sophy win with the GR3 cars. No BoP, just put them in stock and make sure they are at least 720pp...or not. Some people like the abuse.

 

[hyperspeed980]

Also, given I've spent most of the last year in the custom race feature, Sophy and the GR3 cars is really good. Those saying otherwise may be doing something wrong. At the moment, I am more confident of a Sport Mode win than a Sophy win with the GR3 cars. No BoP, just put them in stock and make sure they are at least 720pp...or not. Some people like the abuse.

Yeah man Sophy is so good. Nothing wrong with it at all.

 

[Voodoovaj]

Yeah man Sophy is so good. Nothing wrong with it at all.

Is that just 1 Sophy that you some how managed to isolate, or is it a Sophy race? 🤔 The forum is filled with posts of cars that Sophy has issues with post update. This example is not indicative of the entire Sophy experience.

Also, pretty sure I didn't say there was nothing wrong.

This is like encountering one bad driver in Sport Mode and saying the entirety of those who are participate are likewise horrible. 😒

The game fails to load sometimes, but it obviously works most of the time...so is the game unplayable or is it a minor issue? Man, what would you do if you ever encountered a dimmer switch? "oooo...light not on, but light not off...hmmm..so confused."


Edit: Hold up, those cars look like Power Pack liveries. So you used the power pack as an example? That's not even the same feature. You do realize that, right? The Power Pack Sophy, the Custom Race Sophy are different iterations. You may as well have used GT4 to complain about a GT7 feature.

 

[Aphelion]

If were cherry-picking then based off my last sport mode race, humans can’t drive either

 

[hyperspeed980]

Is that just 1 Sophy that you some how managed to isolate, or is it a Sophy race? 🤔 The forum is filled with posts of cars that Sophy has issues with post update. This example is not indicative of the entire Sophy experience.

Also, pretty sure I didn't say there was nothing wrong.

This is like encountering one bad driver in Sport Mode and saying the entirety of those who are participate are likewise horrible. 😒

The game fails to load sometimes, but it obviously works most of the time...so is the game unplayable or is it a minor issue? Man, what would you do if you ever encountered a dimmer switch? "oooo...light not on, but light not off...hmmm..so confused."


Edit: Hold up, those cars look like Power Pack liveries. So you used the power pack as an example? That's not even the same feature. You do realize that, right? The Power Pack Sophy, the Custom Race Sophy are different iterations. You may as well have used GT4 to complain about a GT7 feature.

Yeah the Power Pack race with GT300 and GT500 cars racing together. The one that definitely exists. You absolutely know what you're talking about regarding this topic.

Even regardless of that, there should not be any scenario in which Sophy driving a stock car on a stock setup suddenly decides to completely shut off and start driving at 20 mph. And the rest of the Sophy opponents are also several seconds slower than they were pre-patch, even with weak boost.

 

[suomi1]

Yeah man Sophy is so good. Nothing wrong with it at all.

First we had to play around boost finding out it have to be set on weak; then we had to use a rabbit to knock rubberbanding; then we had Sophy but it couldn't drive all cars on all tracks; and now we have to play around the fact that Sophy despite being able to drive almost every cars, cannot "race" them properly and sometimes cannot handle properly some tracks without being totally bugged. It's exhausting and disheartening.

I've pretty much stopped playing since that update, regardless of the changes made to the physics and stock setups / downforce that destroyed every custom races I had built.

But hey, blue pilled gotta blue pill..

 

[Voodoovaj]

Yeah the Power Pack race with GT300 and GT500 cars racing together. The one that definitely exists. You absolutely know what you're talking about regarding this topic.

Hmm, let me check the topic...

Gran Turismo 7 Update 1.71 Arrives With Major Physics Changes & Fanatec FullForce Support​

Ahh, ok, I thought I might have accidentally posted in the Power Pack thread. Since, apparently, you don't know, the official Sophy version for the main game was 2.1 while the Power Pack was named 3.0. 3.0 has standing starts, weather, etc.

Since I am not posting in the power pack thread, why would you use the Power Pack as a contradiction? If you want to contradict my point, feel free, but have courtesy to do so in good faith by reviewing the actual feature being discussed.

Even regardless of that, there should not be any scenario in which Sophy driving a stock car on a stock setup suddenly decides to completely shut off and start driving at 20 mph. And the rest of the Sophy opponents are also several seconds slower than they were pre-patch, even with weak boost.

Cool story, but the scenario you are referring to is not "Sophy". It's The Power Pack. If the update broke The Power Pack, that's a completely different topic. Calling the Power Pack "Sophy" confuses everyone. The Power Pack was tweaked well before the update. 2 Chili races became cakewalks...nothing to do with update 1.71. Now, it looks like the 1.71 changes and the Power Pack don't like each other. Still doesn't change that the Power Pack and the Update are different topics.

Given this is a thread about update 1.71, it's safe to assume I am discussing the Sophy that everyone has access to.

 

[hyperspeed980]

Hmm, let me check the topic...

Gran Turismo 7 Update 1.71 Arrives With Major Physics Changes & Fanatec FullForce Support​

Ahh, ok, I thought I might have accidentally posted in the Power Pack thread. Since, apparently, you don't know, the official Sophy version for the main game was 2.1 while the Power Pack was named 3.0. 3.0 has standing starts, weather, etc.

Since I am not posting in the power pack thread, why would you use the Power Pack as a contradiction? If you want to contradict my point, feel free, but have courtesy to do so in good faith by reviewing the actual feature being discussed.

Cool story, but the scenario you are referring to is not "Sophy". It's The Power Pack. If the update broke The Power Pack, that's a completely different topic. Calling the Power Pack "Sophy" confuses everyone. The Power Pack was tweaked well before the update. 2 Chili races became cakewalks...nothing to do with update 1.71. Now, it looks like the 1.71 changes and the Power Pack don't like each other. Still doesn't change that the Power Pack and the Update are different topics.

Given this is a thread about update 1.71, it's safe to assume I am discussing the Sophy that everyone has access to.

Did you seriously not read the sarcasm in my message?! There is no Power Pack race with those cars racing together! It's a custom race where the Sophy AI in the Pennzoil R34 is blatantly broken! Stop nit-picking and writing walls of rambling text and admit that you're wrong about something!

 

[Hlavco]

Looking at the location where Sophy "turned off", it appears that she was attempting to pit on that lap, but another car passed on the inside at just the right moment, blocking Sophy from entering the pit lane. Then she didn't know what to do, and drove at a crawl until the pit lane merged with the track again.

 

[Nebuc72]

Looking at the location where Sophy "turned off", it appears that she was attempting to pit on that lap, but another car passed on the inside at just the right moment, blocking Sophy from entering the pit lane. Then she didn't know what to do, and drove at a crawl until the pit lane merged with the track again.

I think you need to watch the clip again, it starts slowing down after the 2nd sector of lap 1?

 

[Voodoovaj]

where the Sophy AI in the Pennzoil R34 is blatantly broken! Stop nit-picking and writing walls of rambling text and admit that you're wrong about something!

So, you've condemned all of Sophy in all iterations because of this one car, yet I'm the one nit-picking?

Excuse me while I go back to the quite spectacular Sophy custom races that I have set up by using some of the literally hundreds of other cars that work well 😒

 

[snowgt]

It's not determined by a formula, but by a simulation. If the cars are more or less the same, then there's probably some edge case occurring with the SM tyres, which means the 4 PP advantage would go away by a minor tuning adjustment.

At first I took what you were saying (i.e. that PP is determined by a simulation) as a fact, but the more I think about it, it doesn't make sense. I'm not sure how many parts on average you can fit to a car in GT7 that will change the PP figure, but it's a lot. And ANY combination of them will result in a different PP figure. The number of simulations it would take for each car would be staggering. And no, this cannot be done in an accurate way on the fly in game in a second after you change a part, it has to be pre-simulated. So, I severely doubt that this is actually simulated, but rather determined by a formula.

 

[eran0004]

At first I took what you were saying (i.e. that PP is determined by a simulation) as a fact, but the more I think about it, it doesn't make sense. I'm not sure how many parts on average you can fit to a car in GT7 that will change the PP figure, but it's a lot. And ANY combination of them will result in a different PP figure. The number of simulations it would take for each car would be staggering.

It performs one simulation. The next time you change something it performs another simulation. The online manual and GTPlanet's own GT7 guide states that the PP score is determined by simulation, so it's not just something I'm saying.

And no, this cannot be done in an accurate way on the fly in game in a second after you change a part, it has to be pre-simulated.

Why could it not be done on the fly?

So, I severely doubt that this is actually simulated, but rather determined by a formula.

If it was a formula it would always* be able to produce an output. In GT7 there are cases where a PP score can't be calculated. According to the online manual this occurs when the game can't simulate a normal racing experience. The formula hypothesis also doesn't explain how the PP value can fluctuate when you make minor adjustments, I don’t think it behaved like that in GT6 for example.

(*As long as the operations are defined. Division by zero would obviously return an error.)

 

[Jump_Ace]

So, you've condemned all of Sophy in all iterations because of this one car, yet I'm the one nit-picking?

Excuse me while I go back to the quite spectacular Sophy custom races that I have set up by using some the literally hundreds of other cars that work well 😒

This is all I do anymore, outside of a couple power pack races I don't have time to complete. Sophy has been great to race against, I just want it on all tracks, chop chop PD!


Jerome

 

[art3mis]

Pre Patch or Post I have yet to find a track where I'm not beating the pants off of Sophy by the time we make our first pit stop. I only do endurance races and it doesn't matter how I set it up I have to take a bone stock GT3 and SLOW IT DOWN to make a race competitive with the AI.

 

[Voodoovaj]

At first I took what you were saying (i.e. that PP is determined by a simulation) as a fact, but the more I think about it, it doesn't make sense ... The number of simulations it would take for each car would be staggering

I think you are taking the word "simulation" and imagining something elaborate. It is a simple simulation. @eran0004 is absolutely correct. Check the photo I added below his comment. I circled where the simulation results are shown.

It performs one simulation. The next time you change something it performs another simulation. The online manual and GTPlanet's own GT7 guide states that the PP score is determined by simulation, so it's not just something I'm saying.

Why could it not be done on the fly?

 

[Voodoovaj]

Pre Patch or Post I have yet to find a track where I'm not beating the pants off of Sophy by the time we make our first pit stop. I only do endurance races and it doesn't matter how I set it up I have to take a bone stock GT3 and SLOW IT DOWN to make a race competitive with the AI.

Some things you're likely doing that causes this.

First up, leave the fuel and tires at 1X or 2X (I know there will be crying). Here's the deal, the tire usage is set by the tire and forces upon it, not by the car or the track. The fuel usage is set by the car. When people start multiplying it, it throws everything out of whack. You can use the multiplier, but it takes tweaking to get it just right for the track and car combination. Just leave it at 1X or 2X. Adjust your endurance races to suit that. The higher the multiple, the more out of whack the settings become.

Second, you say that you are tuning down, and that's a give away that you've set the race incorrectly. The Audi, Lambo, Merc Evo, and GT3R are all beasts when Sophy has them at 100%. The Lambo is better with a 400/600 downforce setting compared to its standard settings. Put those cars at the front of the field and drive something else. Set the boost to weak (yes, I know they will boost back to you after a pit stop). If the race is set up properly, there won't be a gap to worry about. Lastly set the slipstream to real or strong. Setting it to off is the worst choice. Strong is best IMHO because it gets the Sophys racing each other more.

You know how some people advise on using a "rabbit"? Well, the Audi, Lambo, and Merc Evo will gladly run off into the distance when they are stock.

Set the damage to full and the set the collision and short cut penalties to strong. You are looking for a challenge after all.

Now, I have found that every GR3 cars needs to be tuned UP to at least 720pp. Add the medium power option and the power adjuster (DO NOT USE THE CPU). Adjust the power down until the adjuster hits 70% or 720pp, which ever comes first.

I've used this procedure with Sophy and Reggie. I did 1 hour at Yas Marina with the Alfa Romeo and finished 5th (Regular AI) and I finished 8th at Spa after 1 hour (Sophy).

If you are "beating the pants" off Sophy after this, you're an alien. Post the results.

 

[snowgt]

It performs one simulation. The next time you change something it performs another simulation. The online manual and GTPlanet's own GT7 guide states that the PP score is determined by simulation, so it's not just something I'm saying.

Why could it not be done on the fly?

If it was a formula it would always* be able to produce an output. In GT7 there are cases where a PP score can't be calculated. According to the online manual this occurs when the game can't simulate a normal racing experience. The formula hypothesis also doesn't explain how the PP value can fluctuate when you make minor adjustments, I don’t think it behaved like that in GT6 for example.

(*As long as the operations are defined. Division by zero would obviously return an error.)

Voodoovaj makes a good point (see below). You could call that a "simulation" ... or a rather simple performance measure.

And it seems to point to the fact that the PP figure comes out of a formula where the variables are measured by a very quick and simple "simulation". And the PP figure cannot be calculated, when one of the variables in the formula is undefined, e.g. because the car cannot reach a certain speed. (I'm not sure the missing PP figures are still a thing - they might have amended the formula)

I think you are taking the word "simulation" and imagining something elaborate. It is a simple simulation. @eran0004 is absolutely correct. Check the photo I added below his comment. I circled where the simulation results are shown.

View attachment 1566378

Thank you for that suggestion. And like I said above, it seems to be a mixture of a performance simulation where acceleration and theoretical corner speeds are measured, and the results are the variables in a formula for PP. Unfortunately the latest physics update seems to have skewed the PP figure in the wrong direction, because the weights in the formula seem to have changed.

When you make a scatter plot of PP figure (x-axis) vs laptime (y-axis) you should ideally get a diagonal sloping down from left to right where all marks are very close to this diagonal line (that would mean that PP is a good indicator of how quick a car is). With the latest update the average distance to that line has increased by a lot and you get more like a cloud instead of a line.

This is nothing against the physics update - I like it. But the formula needs tweaking now.

 

[eran0004]

When you make a scatter plot of PP figure (x-axis) vs laptime (y-axis)

Do you have such a plot?

 

[Old_Richard]

Even if you stick with the controller, I would encourage you to have a look at why you aren't enjoying the physics and work from there (particular handling characteristics etc.)

I didn't enjoy it because it's absolutely dreadful. Tons of grip and absolutely no feel - closer to outrun than gran turismo.
I've uninstalled it so doubt I'll ever go back to a GT game again.

Sorry to hear about your wife that doesn't support your hobbies man.

Controller is still perfectly fine. Pace wise I would say there is no difference, maybe just turn down your steering sensitivity if you're struggling but if it's an arcade game now as you say how would a wheel be any easier?
Everyone else adapted in about half a day, really not that much changed fundamentally. I'm sure you can manage too.

It's too easy not too difficult.

 

[B80]

I don't know what you guys are talking about, my wife always tells me how cool and sexy I look when I'm in the rig with my VR headset on.

Exactly. I like to see myself as a Temu James Hunt

 

[snowgt]

Do you have such a plot?

I'm in the process of putting one together, but it takes a while. Gotta drive all the cars again first...

What made me post about this though is that I already saw where this is going ... some cars with PP figures that don't match their performance on track at all. (my initial verdict being that low weight is now much more important for PP than power and that is not what the stopwatch says...)

 

[Met Entso]

I'm not looking forward to play gt7 anymore, haven't touched it in 3 days when i was playing it every day for hours. Very dissapointed with the new physics. Have abandoned Manufactures and Nations.

On the other hand I'm trying to learn to drive without ABS which is quite challenging in Gr3 (guess even more in Gr2 and 1) and compensates the overall arcade feeling.

 

[art3mis]

I didn't enjoy it because it's absolutely dreadful. Tons of grip and absolutely no feel - closer to outrun than gran turismo.
I've uninstalled it so doubt I'll ever go back to a GT game again.


It's too easy not too difficult.

Yeah that's been my experience throughout the entire DLC. With the exception of 2-3 races where the AI just straight up cheats all the DLC races are easy even on 2 chili. It was functionally impossible to lose an endurance race pre-patch. Post-Patch it's gotten even easier to win those races.

 

[Nebuc72]

It's too easy not too difficult.

Responds to absolutely nothing I said so I think I'm starting to see the issue!