Gran Turismo 7 Confirmed to also launch on PlayStation 4, is a cross-gen title

[AlexWilmot]

That leaves option C, and I don't like that at all.

This is why people are going ape, but I think they’re over reacting because as you say it’s not confirmed

 

[Vspectra]

I mean just look at the dev cycle of GTSport and what PD could do with it on PS4 when they only had one console generation to focus on. They took 4 years to release GTSport since GT6's release. GTS released with NO wet weather and a barebones features list, then it took another two years before we got static wet weather in GTSport... but only on a whopping 3 environments with the same simple wet physics of old games, no hydroplaning standing water, no wet or dry lines.

So it seems very questionable that they have now somehow figured out how to do dynamic weather and/or dynamic time on PS4 in addition to working on a standalone PS5 version of the game with a completely different and more advanced lighting solution and procedural weather solution.

And both dynamic time progression and dynamic weather are pretty big gameplay features. None of the cross-gen PS5 exclusives have different gameplay or features, Spider-man MM and Horizon on PS5 are just graphical/performance upgrades of the PS4 version.

 

[Whistle Snap]

Is this really dynamic smooth transitions though? Or is it just loading the various discrete time of days live on track? The shadow movements seem too jumpy to be the former.

This video was me tapping in sun (dominant light) coordinates during gameplay.

The variable timing in the track parameter file is disabled. I don't know how to enable it, but you can manually control hundreds of settings related to the lighting.

I've got a time lapse video on the Nurburgring with buttery smooth shadow movement and day/night transition that needs editing and uploading.

 

[rhalgr]

The NSFW Tweet from Cory Barlog - in response to a member of his team getting death and rape threats (hey, good going again there, gamers) - which I've quoted rather than embedded below, mentioned PS4 but also neither confirms nor denies the PS4 version:

I can sorta get why you don't acknowledge GT7 being cross gen, since you explained it and you have a obligation I guess to be as accurate as possible when writing a article. But the GoW part is a stretch. He lists all the examples including "PS4/PS5" and says he is responsible for the decision. Can't get more clearer, unless Amazon rings the bell and brings the PS4 copy of GoW in.

 

[RACECAR]

The middle option is always a possibility, but I'd suggest that it's remote and if it happens expect your PS4 fan to collapse into a singularity and start sucking in the universe.

Well, I've always wondered what a black hole would look like up close..

 

[O604]

Two recent pieces of news that I thought about again. 1) Possible GT port to PC and 2) Kaz mentioning "something new".

Let's say this is cross-gen. This would get Kaz working on a new GT right away instead of waiting a year or 2. And enables them to release the next game sooner.

In other words from Sony POV, it pressures Kaz to stay and enters the PC crossover market sooner.

 

[NathanDrake]

The game design isn't as complex as say ratchet and clank ps5, where game worlds and levels change on the spot. Why would it be a problem to scale back the game onto ps4? I know someone mentioned cyberpunk as an example, but that game was far too complex in design to be running on a ps4 with the level of building and environmental factors going on. Also the issue of the engine itself and so on. But the guys at polyphony digital know how to make use of their dev time and when it comes to game engines, they are probably among the best.

 

[Tornado]

Is that why they've substantially delayed every game they've made in the past 22 years except the one that released on time but with much of it's functionality missing on launch instead?

 

[ScottPuss20]

The logic of "the PS4 has a large install base" is flawed, because if that's actually what Sony wanted they'd be selling it on PC. I don't see any meaningful amount of people buying a new PS4 for GT7 so the game can't be used that way to drive hardware sales. So it would be purely about shifting units of software, in which case just put it on Steam/Epic and watch it sell 20 million copies.

There's basically no chance of GT7 turning up on PC at release though, even though it would be substantially less stupid than releasing on PS4. Releasing on PS4 is what you do if your company is dying and you simply need the injection of cash to get through the next six months, it's not something that gives long term benefit to the brand.

However, according to Jim Ryan games have gotten more expensive to make because of the realistic graphics and physics that weren't possible before.

This seems like a lame excuse nowadays because the processes have become more efficient over the last few years.

 

[daus26]

Hard to trust official stuff nowadays

 

[Imari]

As far as the game being different between PS4 and PS5, if there are functional differences between the two then they're not the same game even if they have the same name. God of War on PS4 is a completely different game from God of War on PS2 despite them having the same name. Forza Horizon 2 on Xbox 1 was a completely different game to Forza Horizon 2 on Xbox 360 despite them having the same name and releasing at the same time.

Don't be confused just because two things happen to have the same name. If two games don't play the same, they're not the same game.

 

[Zlork]

I don't really know how to answer this. I've not said he's wrong about anything, anywhere, and with regards to the relevant passage I don't see how he can be. Can you clarify what you think I think he's wrong about?

You said, I quote :

And that's the truly weird thing here: nobody is saying, clearly, "Yes, GT7 will be available on PS4"

Still, Hulst was clear, right? Or I didn't understand what you meant ?

 

[paulpg87]

I know cross-gen seems to be confirmed? (taken with a grain of salt), but has cross-play been guaranteed also or assumed in this discussion?. The biggest problem I see with cross-play will be with the physics of the PS5 & e-sports, assuming the that PD will try to implement more calculations per second and different tire models on the PS5, this would create a unbalance between the PS4 & PS5 players. The only way out of that would be to bring down PS5 physics to PS4 level.

Removing cross-play would give both platforms the best chance, each working within the hardware limitations of there platform, giving them there greatest potential, a GT7 Lite for the PS4 & GT7 Ultimate for the PS5, though I don't see e-sports being separate which is where everything falls apart.

Currently I see Sony with this move cannibalizing future sales of the PS5.

Creating two separate titles, with the PS5 version implementing the best features that the newer system can give, would give people on the old system some enticement to eventually move to the new platform.

Gt physic is basic, there wont't be any difference between ps4 and ps5. All extra power will be visuals and fps. In assetto corsa the difference is day and night from PC to ps4.

The real issues are serious features like dynamic time cycle or Weather or the numbers of cars on the grid (if there is cross-play...)

 

[Monkey Man]

The real issues are serious features like dynamic time cycle or Weather or the numbers of cars on the grid.

Indeed Paul, that's what it comes down to if online racing between the two consoles is gonna happen.

 

[Sharpie]

We should get this news form producer himself. Radio silence is on all time high.

 

[queleuleu]

I love how Sony is testing the water with this phrasing. They let the people talk about this PS4 version and later Sony will release an official statement about a ps4 (or not!) version.

 

[Famine]

Still, Hulst was clear, right? Or I didn't understand what you meant ?

No, he was not. That's pretty much the entire point. Go back and read the first part of the post from which you lifted that quote.

 

[Zlork]

No, he was not. That's pretty much the entire point. Go back and read the first part of the post from which you lifted that quote.

I see....

If GT7 (and/or God of War R) remain exclusive to PS5 then there was a major communication fault at Sony because all sites have already relayed the information !

 

[GlamFM]

I see....

If GT7 (and/or God of War R) remain exclusive to PS5 then there was a major communication fault at Sony because all sites have already relayed the information !

The fact that Sony has not clarified nor "corrected" the narrative tells you it´s true. Hermen probably just let it slip out early and the entire PR machine wasn´t ready yet. We have E3 week ahead of us, I assume It´ll get confirmet one more time there.

 

[Famine]

I see....

If GT7 (and/or God of War R) remain exclusive to PS5 then there was a major communication fault at Sony because all sites have already relayed the information !

It's an issue whether the game or games are PS5 exclusive still or not. Nobody is clarifying it either way - nobody who can say "Yes, they are PS4 games too", or "No, they are PS5 exclusives still" is saying that.

Hermen probably just let it slip out early and the entire PR machine wasn´t ready yet.

That'd make sense if it was a mag or site interview. This was an interview by PS Blog, posted on PS Blog, with complete end-to-end editorial control from Sony/PlayStation. It didn't come out accidentally, but somehow either nobody was expecting it or nobody had clear, definitive statements prepped to the pretty obvious questions that would follow.

Totally baffling that they dropped the ball so hard on this when it's their ball, their team, their pitch, and they run the entire sport.


And it's not individual PR people like the folks tasked with talking to people like us either. Their hands are tied, and that's probably the case three or four management tiers up above them. They're all probably tearing out their hair at this.

 

[Dave A]

Gt physic is basic, there wont't be any difference between ps4 and ps5. All extra power will be visuals and fps. In assetto corsa the difference is day and night from PC to ps4.

The real issues are serious features like dynamic time cycle or Weather or the numbers of cars on the grid (if there is cross-play...)

Nope, every console generation Gran Turismo games physics have increased in ther complexity massively, just because they continue to operate that ground away from the hardcore simulations while not being an arcade title does not mean the physics do not improve generation to generaiton. You go back to the PS1 titles and compare the physics to the PS2 titles, then the PS3 titles and finally compare those to GT Sport, there is always more complex phyics going on with each new console generation.

What people fail to realise is the same is said for other games to, hardcore sims back in the 90's were knowhere near what they are today in terms of physcs. So while Gran Turismo maintains it's position as an accessible, fairly realistic title that doesn't push the physics all the way to what they could be, due to direction and resource allocation, don't for one moment fall into the trap of thinking they don't improve. They do, there are far more calculations per second in GT Sport than in GT6 and we should be able to see that same leap from GT Sport to GT7, but if it is cross-gen that reduces the chances of that.

 

[Griffith500]

We know PD cut dynamic conditions from GTS in favour of the baked lighting because it couldn't run the environmental lighting model at 60fps. That leaves three options for GT7 PS4:

* It's included, but looks worse than GTS on PS4, runs at 30fps
* They found a way since 2017 to make it work on PS4 at 60fps
* It's cut

The middle option is always a possibility, but I'd suggest that it's remote and if it happens expect your PS4 fan to collapse into a singularity and start sucking in the universe. The first option flies in the face of everything we know and expect from Gran Turismo; a GT game that looks worse than its predecessor?

That leaves option C, and I don't like that at all.

That's about the sum of it, definitely.

It remains to be seen just exactly how it might end up looking worse, i.e. in what way they ultimately choose. It might not be immediately obvious, or they could do something with the "dynamic" conditions to cover it up somehow. Really dynamic time of day is less important than dynamic weather, so I say fake the time and ace the weather.

Besides, there are so many options for shadow maps alone, dynamic (or pseudo dynamic) or otherwise, never mind the lighting itself. PD have always had their finger on the pulse of graphics tech (or the last 40 years of research into it), so in their testing and prototyping they might stumble upon some combination that works overall.

They did exactly this with GT6, which looked worse than GT5 in a few subtle ways, but got a pass (ish) because overall it was improved...
GT2 ran like a dead dog on the PS1, as well, so that's not exactly the same, but still a backward step in performance / fidelity combined (option A) for "features".
And many claimed GT3 looked better than GT4 as well, certainly it was crisper and some full screen effects disappeared / lost some detail too, I seem to recall. Lovely new environments redeemed them though.

They'll probably optimise the data structures as they always do (sorry modders) and eke out every last op from the GPU to squeeze in some extra brainpower for those precious grafikz. It's not like they have to do it for every track, either, and that's always been the case for the series

 

[ScottPuss20]

There better be some kind of feature or features to entice people into buying the PS5 version. If it's the exact same as the PS4 version, people won't bother buying the PS5 and the PS5 version.

 

[Stoop Solo]

I put an SSD in my PS4 slim and it makes a very big difference not only in loading times but in the whole user interface. Apps load faster , theres no stuttering or lag when loading everything and games load faster. The SSD makes a very big difference in loading times with GT Sport too.

Perhaps you can satisfy my curiosity on that subject -- are patches any quicker to install? Normally the PS4 makes an entire copy of the installed game to integrate a patch, once one has been downloaded, to prevent fragmentation with a mechanical drive; a rather arduous process.

Obviously this isn't needed with an SSD, and is in fact an undesirable use of the SSD's limited write cycles. But is the PS4 smart enough to not do that when it has an SSD?

Oh, and "with gameplay & graphic assets held back by PS4 limitations" makes that a rather loaded poll question.

 

[Vspectra]

Oh, and "with gameplay & graphic assets held back by PS4 limitations" makes that a rather loaded poll question.

Not really. Anyone thinking the PS4 version won't hold back GT7, either in gameplay features or graphics or both, are living in a revisionist history where devs have never complained about making games for cross-gen. But the sad reality is resources are limited, supporting cross-gen is nothing more than a cash grab and business choice, and the developers who are forced into doing it are being tied to a rock as they try to move forward to next-gen. The only industry people who say cross-gen games aren't held back are business suits who haven't been in the trenches actually making the games, and the funny thing is that if this were actually true, big AAA mid-to-late-gen games would also have released on last-gen consoles. So either you're okay with GT7 being held back by last-gen PS4 hardware, or you're not.

Just to give you a few examples of devs complaining about weak hardware specs and cross-gen development:

Remedy, Control developer:

"Whenever you're in this cross-generational point, to be blunt, it sucks," Puha said. "You have to support the previous gen, make sure that sings, and then whatever you bring to next-gen is still limited by the choices you made years ago for the previous generation. It's not a very realistic thing, that this old game, we're just going to remake everything and then bring it to next-gen. It's just not like that. It's not a reality for us, because you're literally taking away resources that are building the future games and improving the engine for the future."​

John Linneman from Digital Foundry spoke to several devs at the start of this gen:

“nobody wants to develop for an under-powered Jaguar CPU any longer.” “I’ve spoken with enough developers to know how painful the process is at this point,” he added. “Leave Xbox One and PS4 behind.”

​

Billy Khan of id Software lead Engine developer taking issue with the RAM choice of Xbox Series S, let alone PS4 RAM which is slower and less and not even factoring in the huge CPU deficit the PS4 has:

"The memory situation is a big issue on the S. The much lower amount of memory and the split memory banks with drastically slower speeds will be a major issue. Aggressively lowering the render resolutions will marginally help but will not completely counteract the deficiencies."

​

Axel Gneiting of id Software engine programmer:

"Also 'it always scaled on PC' is nonsense. Every AAA game in the past decade or so has their assets made once so they run on min spec. Increasing sample counts a bit here and there for high settings isn't what you could truly have done with more power. Min spec matters."​

 

[05XR8]

The average Gran Turismo player, which is most likely the majority buying the franchise, really doesn't care about optimisation or trees or ray tracing or PS4 version holding back PS5 version or haphazard feedback of the controller. They'll buy it because it's a new Gran Turismo game.

 

[ArR29]

The average Gran Turismo player, which is most likely the majority buying the franchise, really doesn't care about optimisation or trees or ray tracing or PS4 version holding back PS5 version or haphazard feedback of the controller. They'll buy it because it's a new Gran Turismo game.

That is so true and there is really nothing wrong with that but some fans want to see PD push the PS5 to its limitations. And it seems we won't be seeing that until late of this generation which is a huge shame.

 

[Dave A]

The average Gran Turismo player, which is most likely the majority buying the franchise, really doesn't care about optimisation or trees or ray tracing or PS4 version holding back PS5 version or haphazard feedback of the controller. They'll buy it because it's a new Gran Turismo game.

Not sure, at least 6,730,000 GT5 players decided not to buy GT6 despite it being a new Gran Turismo game, so there is certainly a lot more to it than that. I think the publc want to see spectacular graphics, and something that is an imporvement over the previous game in enough ways to justify the purchase, be that content, features, graphics, a combination of things etc. Most people might not know, or care about how much a console is being pushed by a game, but they will care what GT7 is like as a game, and if it doesn't improve on GT Sport in enough ways there's no guarentee it will sell well for a Gran Turismo title, just look at GT6.

 

[05XR8]

I don't know the exact reason why GT5 & GT6 weren't the greatest sellers if the franchise. Could be the competition stepped up. Could be about low car enthusiasm from the first GT players that have moved up to PC games. Maybe, as Kaz pointed out, the enthusiasm for cars died off.

I'm fine with blow your mind graphics. I'd love to see the next game have all the bells and whistles. Most people, upset about this current news, are voicing their due concerns. Of course many average players don't understand the reality of what this news may cause for the next game. It's what the discussion is about.

10 million views for the GT7 trailer? No rain clip in sight and people are clicking that video like nobody's business. I think the showing of car customisation, Trial Mountain and the Home screen, are the main reasons. Bringing back the feel of GT 1-4, not an exact carbon copy of those games, has the potential to sell.

Again, it's going to be about if anyone in today's world, really care about cars in general.

 

[lancashirelad]

Not sure, at least 6,730,000 GT5 players decided not to buy GT6 despite it being a new Gran Turismo game, so there is certainly a lot more to it than that. I think the publc want to see spectacular graphics, and something that is an imporvement over the previous game in enough ways to justify the purchase, be that content, features, graphics, a combination of things etc. Most people might not know, or care about how much a console is being pushed by a game, but they will care what GT7 is like as a game, and if it doesn't improve on GT Sport in enough ways there's no guarentee it will sell well for a Gran Turismo title, just look at GT6.

I'd second this, GT6 is the only GT game I have skipped and if gt7 follows suit I'll be skipping that too.