Gran Turismo 7 Confirmed to also launch on PlayStation 4, is a cross-gen title

  • Thread starter Vspectra
  • 2,048 comments
  • 155,426 views

Are you disappointed GT7 is also on PS4 with gameplay & graphic assets held back by PS4 limitations?


  • Total voters
    626
Yes, I'm "obsessed" with using words to describe things. 😕

How is faster rendering speed of a scene in a 3D modelling tool relevant to improvements with real time video game engines? It wasn't too long ago you seemed to understand that many improvements to GTS on PS5 would require an update to unblock the "limits" (Look, it's another one of those describing words) of the PS4.


So do those limits not exist any more then?
Blender is not only a 3D modeling tool, it has a render engine too, yes, just like videogames, and also it has real time rendering.

"So do those limits not exist any more then?"
As I said many times what you think it's a limit today it could not be it tomorrow thanks to software improvements.

You don't understand what is proved on the UE4 vs UE5 video and in cycles videos ?
Have you a wall or a ceiling just in front of you? LOL
 
Last edited:
Alright, I look forward to playing GT7 at 4K with full dynamic time and weather at 60fps on my base PS4 thanks to these unlimited software improvements then. Well I mean I already am, since GT7 came out in December 2020.
You do bad trolling, as always, with zero understanding about rendering.

Sad for you.
 
Last edited:
You do bad trolling, as always, with zero understanding about rendering.

Sad for you.
Yet it's always you that's in these really odd and highly optimistic discussions, flapping borderline irrelevant examples about. "A new version of the rendering software found 10-20% quicker times on a PC rig with a £5,000 CPU and a £4,000 GPU" isn't quite the flex you appear to think it is.


The PS4 was decent but old when it launched; it was a very safe collection of hardware, but nowhere near strong enough to manage 1080p and 60fps and dynamic lighting/weather/time cycles at the same time - even on the PS4 Pro. That's why nobody managed it in a racing game, ever, and everyone sacrificed something: DC sacrificed frame rate; GT sacrificed dynamic lighting (for the most part), DIRT 5 sacrificed... the game.

Sure, as developers become more familiar with the console, the more they would be able to extract more from what they have, but there comes a point where the gains are simply too small to make any meaningful difference. Nine years into the platform's availability for developers is probably past that point. There is also very definitely a limit to what certain hardware can do (or do reliably, which is the same thing for practical purposes), otherwise we wouldn't even have PS5s - they could simply have got more out of the PS1 over the last 25 years.

At some point, there might - might - be a breakthrough which allows the PS4 Pro to have dynamic time of day at 1080p60, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Certainly not given the stated display specifications of FH5 on the Xbox Series X...
 
"It will not be possible to take the most of ps5 " ... but in pc games it's possible... so in ps5 too. Very often you have quite low minimum specs on pc for games.
Yeah, this is not a PC. That should be extremely obvious that it doesn't work like that with consoles. So no, it wont be like that in the PS5
It only depends on how you do it, you can deliver a bad version on ps5 or a good version, it's about decisions and improving software performance on both, new and old hardware as ALL softwares can do with good developpement (for example unreal engine and cycles in blender do it).

On the physics side, online you see a simplified telemetry export from others user... and with lag...
You wont get a bad or good version. Youll get the exact same version on both consoles, so that means it'll be developed with what the Base PS4 can handle, not the other way around. SO that likely means that the things they took out because it couldn't work well on the PS4 for GTS, likely wont be seeing a return unless the make some pretty big compromises to their original design considering they couldn't even get things going on GTS without sacrificing framerate - The exact reason they were excluded.
It's not a problem if one user runs a 200 cycles/second physics version and other one runs a 400 cycles/second physics version as what everyone see (and interact with) is a simplified telemetry export of the others.

About dynamic time and weather PD only has to use in ps4 another render technique than in gts. It doesn't mean that it should be uglier or worse than actual GTS, it can be almost the same but a little different as when you change a render engine for another one.
Yeah I doubt they're going to change their engine. I also doubt that they did absolutely nothing else to see if they could get it working. In the long run, it wasn't beneficial to the game to keep it in if it was going to hinder its performance. Something that seems to have changed with PD this last iteration, because they didn't mind hindered performance in the past, and that's a good thing.
Are you still pretending GTS is the maximum performance possible in PS4 ?

PD works with their own render engine, they can improve it if they want.
You're the only one pretending here. Everyone else is being logical about dated hardware that wasn't exactly powerful when it came out in the first place.
You do bad trolling, as always, with zero understanding about rendering.

Sad for you.
:lol: Stop projecting.
 
Last edited:
Yet it's always you that's in these really odd and highly optimistic discussions, flapping borderline irrelevant examples about. "A new version of the rendering software found 10-20% quicker times on a PC rig with a £5,000 CPU and a £4,000 GPU" isn't quite the flex you appear to think it is.


The PS4 was decent but old when it launched; it was a very safe collection of hardware, but nowhere near strong enough to manage 1080p and 60fps and dynamic lighting/weather/time cycles at the same time - even on the PS4 Pro. That's why nobody managed it in a racing game, ever, and everyone sacrificed something: DC sacrificed frame rate; GT sacrificed dynamic lighting (for the most part), DIRT 5 sacrificed... the game.

Sure, as developers become more familiar with the console, the more they would be able to extract more from what they have, but there comes a point where the gains are simply too small to make any meaningful difference. Nine years into the platform's availability for developers is probably past that point. There is also very definitely a limit to what certain hardware can do (or do reliably, which is the same thing for practical purposes), otherwise we wouldn't even have PS5s - they could simply have got more out of the PS1 over the last 25 years.

At some point, there might - might - be a breakthrough which allows the PS4 Pro to have dynamic time of day at 1080p60, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Certainly not given the stated display specifications of FH5 on the Xbox Series X...
The videos posted are made by users, demo files are available too for everybody.

GTS has prebaked RT on locations, without it PD could make 1080p and 60fps and dynamic lighting/weather/time cycles at the same time.

PD chose the look of that solution, but they could do it in many ways, render techniques are almost unlimited.
The "hardware limit" of one render technique is not the "hardware limit" in other render techniques.

@ImaRobot : So the videos that I have posted are ilogical LOL
 
Last edited:
GTS has prebaked RT on locations, without it PD could make 1080p and 60fps and dynamic lighting/weather/time cycles at the same time.

PD chose the look of that solution, but they could do it in many ways, render techniques are almost unlimited.
The "hardware limit" of one render technique is not the "hardware limit" in other render techniques.
Sounds like you know everything they don't. Wonder why they haven't hired you already - You sound like you would be a godsend to them.

e5fbb69e180a07512180b740fafa1957.gif
 
Last edited:
Sounds like you know everything they don't. Wonder why they haven't hired you already - You sound like you would be a godsend to them.

View attachment 1066483
Sounds like you neither understand the videos I've posted runing on old GPUS
Maybe you both have a wall or a "hardware limit" in front you. LOL

We will see what PD delivers, but software improvements are huge over the last years.
 
Last edited:
GTS has prebaked RT on locations, without it PD could make 1080p and 60fps and dynamic lighting/weather/time cycles at the same time.
No, they couldn't. We know because not only couldn't they, literally nobody anywhere did.
Sounds like you know everything they don't. Wonder why they haven't hired you already - You sound like you would be a godsend to them.
It's amazing how he flits from PD being the best in the business and geniuses who can extract more from a console than anyone else to being literally so incompetent that they don't know how to make the PS4 work like a forum rando does.
 
Last edited:
No, they couldn't. We know because literally nobody anywhere did.
Driveclub did it, if I'm not wrong.

Even a level that is nearly achieved could be considered as achievable (could) with more developpement or other render techniques.
 
Last edited:
Sounds like you neither understand the videos I've posted runing on old GPUS
Maybe you both have a wall or a "hardware limit" in front you. LOL

We will see what PD delivers, but software improvements are huge over the last years.
Nice deflection. I like how you ignored literally absolutely everything in order to pretend you got some one up with a snide comment.

Your hopeful optimism for things that just, logically, make no sense is very, very admirable, and cute. We've already seen what PD can deliver. We've seen what everyone was able to deliver on the PS4. Again, unless they make some pretty big compromises, its unlikely we see things like this. Although, making compromises to adhere to the requirements needed for those features would also hold back other parts of the game. I'm waiting to see what compromises they are going to make, instead of just pretending everything is possible even though we've seen the complete opposite.

Driveclub did it, if I'm not wrong.
Driveclub played at half the frame rates and wasn't 4k. The physics are going to be obviously less demanding, and the detail within the models likely not as great as PD's - I'm sure there are other things they had to take down too. Do you not understand this? These are the kinds of compromises that need to be done in order to achieve things like this. What we've seen from PD, it's unlikely they're willing to dumb down performance that much to get it going.
 
Last edited:
Nice deflection. I like how you ignored literally absolutely everything in order to pretend you got some one up with a snide comment.

Your hopeful optimism for things that just, logically, make no sense is very, very admirable, and cute. We've already seen what PD can deliver. We've seen what everyone was able to deliver on the PS4. Again, unless they make some pretty big compromises, its unlikely we see things like this. Although, making compromises to adhere to the requirements needed for those features would also hold back other parts of the game. I'm waiting to see what compromises they are going to make, instead of just pretending everything is possible even though we've seen the complete opposite.


Driveclub played at half the frame rates and wasn't 4k. The physics are going to be obviously less demanding, and the detail within the models likely not as great as PD's. Do you not understand this? These are the kinds of compromises that need to be done in order to achieve things like this. What we've seen from PD, it's unlikely they're willing to dumb down performance that much to get it going.
So, now, the videos I have posted are "hopeful optimism" "make no sense" "cute"

LOL

1625842325687.png
 
Driveclub did it, if I'm not wrong.

Even a level that is nearly achieved could be considered as achievable (could) with more developpement or other render techniques.
It's a shame PD never tried any of these render techniques on PS3, then maybe GT5 and GT6 would have run at 60fps after 8 years of development, not 20-40fps. You should email them, share your knowledge. Heck, after all this time you can probably tell them how to get native 1080p on PS3 as well with your software advances.
 
So, now, the videos I have posted are "hopeful optimism" "make no sense" "cute"

LOL

View attachment 1066488
Keep with the deflecting, it's not helping you're asinine claims and assumptions. You also seem to have a reading comprehension issues. No, the videos you posted about what someone else is saying that has nothing to do with what PD is doing and what they're capable of is not hopeful assumption. You thinking that all of sudden these things are going to be possible when it wasnt for 9 years, is. Not sure how you can be so oblivious to what you're responding to.
 
Keep with the deflecting, it's not helping you're asinine claims and assumptions. You also seem to have a reading comprehension issues. No, the videos you posted about what someone else is saying that has nothing to do with what PD is doing and what they're capable of is not hopeful assumption. You thinking that all of sudden these things are going to be possible when it wasnt for 9 years, is. Not sure how you can be so oblivious to what you're responding to.
A reminder again that this is the same person who was trying to convince us in October 2020 that GT7 could still come out in 2020. Oblivious indeed.
 
Keep with the deflecting, it's not helping you're asinine claims and assumptions. You also seem to have a reading comprehension issues. No, the videos you posted about what someone else is saying that has nothing to do with what PD is doing and what they're capable of is not hopeful assumption. You thinking that all of sudden these things are going to be possible when it wasnt for 9 years, is. Not sure how you can be so oblivious to what you're responding to.

A reminder again that this is the same person who was trying to convince us in October 2020 that GT7 could still come out in 2020. Oblivious indeed.
If you both don't understand the videos that I have posted it has no sense to debate. You are assuming walls everywhere. :)

GT7 in december 2020 was not a bet, I said that it could came out but very very unlikely.
Thank you for being so annoying with it, you have to go back in time in 2020 to look for your childish "arguments". :)
 
Last edited:
A reminder again that this is the same person who was trying to convince us in October 2020 that GT7 could still come out in 2020. Oblivious indeed.
Yeah, I remember. That was laughably inaccurate, and was extremely obvious that wasn't going to happen. If he want's to repeat the same actions till the end of time that's no bother to me. He'll just eventually disappear from the conversation again, not before making a bunch of snide comments as if he's one-uping everyone because he doesn't know how to address what's being said. It's already starting actually. It's the usual actions of those who just, seemingly, blindly defend something.

It's one thing to be optimistic and hopeful, it's another thing entirely to ignore literally every thing in order to pretend something else. Can these things work? Sure if they make some large compromises, but knowing how they go about things, it really doesn't seem logical.

EDIT: It was almost on que, wow! :lol: Didn't think he would chime in exactly like that right as I posted.
 
Last edited:
Yeah, I remember. That was laughably inaccurate, and was extremely obvious that wasn't going to happen. If he want's to repeat the same actions till the end of time that's no bother to me. He'll just eventually disappear from the conversation again, not before making a bunch of snide comments as if he's one-uping everyone because he doesn't know how to address what's being said. It's already starting actually. It's the usual actions of those who just, seemingly, blindly defend something.

It's one thing to be optimistic and hopeful, it's another thing entirely to ignore literally every thing in order to pretend something else. Can these things work? Sure if they make some large compromises, but knowing how they go about things, it really doesn't seem logical.

EDIT: It was almost on que, wow! 😂 Didn't think he would chime in exactly like that right as I posted.
Unreal Engine 4 was developped for more than 9 years
Cycles was developped for more than 9 years

New Unreal Engine 5 and Cycles X outperforms by a huge difference with the same hardware even ON OLD GPUS

Without compromises. Soooo ilogical, so optimistic and hopeful, so cute for "some people"... but true :)
 
Last edited:
Unreal Engine 4 was developped for more than 9 years
Cycles was developped for more than 9 years

New Unreal Engine 5 and Cycles X outperforms by a huge difference even ON OLD GPUS

Without compromises. Soooo ilogical for "some people" but true 🙂
Cool, not sure what that has to do with PD or what they do with the PS4. Keep grasping though, you'll probably eventually have something. Maybe.
 
Last edited:
Cool, not sure what that has to do with PD or what they do with the PS4. Keep grasping though, you'll probably eventually have something. Maybe.
What it has to do with PD and PS4 (old gpu) is rendering improvements by software on the same hardware and on old gpus !!

LOL Are you a noob in videogames ? hahahahaha
 
Last edited:
What it has to do with PD and PS4 (old gpu) is rendering improvements by software on the same hardware and on old gpus !!

LOL Are you a noob in videogames ? hahahahaha
Cool, but again, what does it have to do with the PD uses and what they have and have not accomplished on the PS4? You're almost there, grasp a little harder!
 
Driveclub did it, if I'm not wrong.
You are, and I already covered that.
The PS4 was decent but old when it launched; it was a very safe collection of hardware, but nowhere near strong enough to manage 1080p and 60fps and dynamic lighting/weather/time cycles at the same time - even on the PS4 Pro. That's why nobody managed it in a racing game, ever, and everyone sacrificed something: DC sacrificed frame rate; GT sacrificed dynamic lighting (for the most part), DIRT 5 sacrificed... the game.
Even a level that is nearly achieved could be considered as achievable (could) with more developpement or other render techniques.
If you're counting 30fps as "nearly achieved" 60fps, then you're not even in the same ballpark as reality.

No racing game out there on PS4 could achieve 1080p and 60fps and dynamic lighting/weather/time cycles at the same time. Everyone sacrificed one of those in order to keep the other two. I already said this.

The PS4 is now nine years old, and was at best "safe" hardware when it launched. Any further gains to be made while keeping the notoriously undercooled console actually working for any length of time are incremental, not a fundamental groundbreaking shift. PS4 Pro might get there, but it probably won't because there's no real need to do it any more and the PS4 definitely won't.

There comes a time when you just have to stop and move on because the hardware is so limiting and the new hardware is not. If hardware wasn't limiting, we'd be playing GT7 already on PS1.
 
Last edited:
Cool, but again, what does it have to do with the PD uses and what they have and have not accomplished on the PS4? You're almost there, grasp a little harder!
Time developping and new techniques make software improvements as proven with UE5 and Cycles X

What was not achieved 3 years ago can be reached now on the same old GPU.

Think a little, it was not that difficult :)

@Famine : 10.000.000.000 triangles at 40 fps on a 6 years old GPU was neither achieved before with UE4 on that GPU, now it's achieved.

increasing the performance x2 can be seen as ilogical, but without compromises it's been proved by UE5 and Cycles X and I remember huge recent improvements in Unity too.
 
Last edited:
Time developping and new techniques make software improvements as proven with UE5 and Cycles X

What was not achieved 3 years ago can be reached now on the same old GPU.

Think a little, it was not that difficult 🙂
Ok, so it has nothing to do with what PD is using and what they have and have not accomplished. It's obvious you have nothing to go off of if you're going to result to simply posting snide comments against people. Ironic that you're telling other people to "Think a little" though.

You tout them up as being able to achieve so many things, but instantly shoot them down by acting like they are incapable to make the game better themselves. Do you honestly think you know more than them? You're a nobody on some internet forum with blind optimism. I doubt that you've looked into more than they have. Now, I don't think they're perfect and know everything, but you obviously don't with these wild claims. I imagine the team they have is vastly more familiar and knowledgeable with it than some person on a forum wanting so bad to be right that he has to ignore the reality of it.
 
Last edited:
Ok, so it has nothing to do with what PD is using and what they have and have not accomplished. It's obvious you have nothing to go off of if you're going to result to simply posting snide comments against people. Ironic that you're telling other people to "Think a little" though.

You tout them up as being able to achieve so many things, but instantly shoot them down by acting like they are incapable to make the game better themselves. Do you honestly think you know more than them? You're a nobody on some internet forum with blind optimism. I doubt that you've looked into more than they have. Now, I don't think they're perfect and know everything, but you obviously don't with these wild claims. I imagine the team they have is vastly more familiar and knowledgeable with it than some person on a forum wanting so bad to be right that he has to ignore the reality of it.
It's not necessary to be "someone" to understand the content of the videos that I've posted,
Calm down your ego.

Nor PD nor UE nor blender teams have to be disappointed about not been 4 years ahead on developpement 4 years ago.

Seen the big improvements on software over the last years it's not ilogical that PD will take at least a part of it.
 
Last edited:
Driveclub did it, if I'm not wrong.

Even a level that is nearly achieved could be considered as achievable (could) with more developpement or other render techniques.
Driveclub - Dynamic TOD and weather, runs at 30fps

Assetto Corsa - Limited dynamic TOD, no weather, runs at an unstable 60fps with frequent drops

Assetto Corsa Competitione - Dynamic TOD and weather, but runs at 30fps

Project Cars 2 - Dynamic TOD and weather, runs at an unstable 60fps with frequent drops

GT Sport - Static time and weather, mostly locked at 60fps

how do you expect developers to somehow extract even more power out of the 9 year old hardware? Think about it a little instead of just posting another paragraph that wastes the time of anyone that reads it
 
Oh, he's still going.
@Famine : 10.000.000.000 triangles at 40 fps on a 6 years old GPU was neither achieved before with UE4 on that GPU, now it's achieved.
Irrelevant and inconsequential. You can't simply take "this improvement is possible with this thing", mentally multiply it by an order of magnitude and act like it's possible everywhere.

PS4's GPU was a three-year old specification at best when launched, 8 years ago. 40fps is also not 60fps. You're talking about a 33% improvement on a 6yo PC GPU worth £4k when new, when what you need to show for your claims to have any basis is a 100% improvement on a 12yo console GPU worth £200 when new...

... without it melting, given that it was woefully undercooled.

increasing the performance x2 can be seen as ilogical, but without compromises it's been proved by UE5 and Cycles X and I remember huge recent improvements in Unity too.
Double the performance won't cut it. When it gets to 8x, which is what you'd need, then we can start taking it close to seriously (although still not because there's no case to be made for even attempting it).

Handily, the PS5 is an eightfold improvement over the PS4 across the board.
 
It's not necessary to be "someone" to understand the content of the videos that I've posted,
Calm down your ego.

Seen the big improvements on software over the last years it's not ilogical that PD will take at least a part of it.
Never claimed as much. It's obvious that it's not you though. Again, ironic talking about ego considering you're here pretending you know more than a team of developers that have been working on these consoles for 9 years and have a game that has released 4 years ago. You're the one resorting to snide comments because you don't know how to respond to things you said. You literally ignored everything so far.

So again, what does Unreal Engine 5 have to do with PD, a developer that uses their own internal engine?
 
Last edited:
Back