Gran Turismo 7 Releasing in "First Half of 2021"

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Scaff
Having worked in the industry for over twenty years I have come across exactly zero solid paint finishes that looked like plastic, ever.

I've come across quite a few wraps (in the early days) that looked very plastic, mainly because that's exactly what they ae made of.


Well that makes zero sense at all!
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Your evaluation is distorted in quite enough subjets, that doesn't surprise me at all.
 
oneloops
Nope, I don't like the pedant way that some people use when taking all claims as absolute truth when it's written in bold "more often" or "sometimes", or "in my opinion" as he and other users try to correct by simple and rigid conclusions, extrapolating a part to the whole, cutting parts, changing claims, etc
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This is my point, the fact you said "more often" has nothing to do with what Scaff was actually saying. I think this is going over your head or there's a laguage issue, you've stubbornly refused to recognise points I've made in the past, choosing instead to repeat yourself over and over missing the point in the process, and you're doing the same again here.

Looking at your posts, I'm guessing English isn't your first language, so I get that you might not fully understand everything. But rather than keep repeating yourself and irritating yourself and others in the process, why not ask for clarification of what people mean if you don't fully understand it.

EDIT: And stop it with the personal attacks, every time you get into a debate with people, it's the same one loop over and over again. Someone dissagrees, you repeat the original point, miss the points raised against that, start attacking the person who dissagreed.
 
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Dave A
This is my point, the fact you said "more often" has nothing to do with what Scaff was actually saying. I think this is going over your head or there's a laguage issue, you've stubbornly refused to recognise points I've made in the past, choosing instead to repeat yourself over and over missing the point in the process, and you're doing the same again here.

Looking at your posts, I'm guessing English isn't your first language, so I get that you might not fully understand everything. But rather than keep repeating yourself and irritating yourself and others in the process, why not ask for clarification of what people mean if you don't fully understand it.
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Because the fact of the beggining is that, that's why I repeat it if someone tries to return the discussion elsewhere.

Scaff should ask for clarification if he doesn't know what "more often" means. It's not me to ask if he doesn't understand.

Scaff
Point out one inaccurate statement in my edited post.
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Your evaluation of "doesn't look like plastic" is inaccurate in my opinion, but I know it's ok in your opinion. It's subjective.
 
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oneloops
Scaff should ask for clarification if he doesn't know what "more often" means. It's not me to ask if he doesn't understand.
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Once again, not the point I was correcting.

You made three statements in the following post:

"Racing cars haven't the same coated kind of painting than stock-expensive car. Racing cars paint seem like a "plastic" finish more often in real life."

Sentence 1, Statement 1.
That racing cars do not have the "the same coated kind of painting than stock-expensive car." - This is incorrect, they use exactly the same process.


Now in the next sentence, you actually make two statements, and I have separated them out

Sentence 2, Statement 1.
Racing cars paint seem like a "plastic" finish - This is incorrect, as it's not due to a paint finish, but to the use of wraps, and no solid paints do not give a plastic look at all (and even if it did then it would not apply to just race cars, as road cars also use solid paint finishes)..

Sentence 2, Statement 2.
"a "plastic" finish more often in real life." - This I have not disputed at all, however, I would question the exact frequency that it occurs, but yes some race cars can have a plastic look to them.
 
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Scaff
Once again, not the point I was correcting.

You made three statements in the following post:

"Racing cars haven't the same coated kind of painting than stock-expensive car. Racing cars paint seem like a "plastic" finish more often in real life."

Sentence 1, Statement 1.
That racing cars do not have the "the same coated kind of painting than stock-expensive car." - This is incorrect, they use exactly the same process.


Now in the next sentence, you actually make two statements, and I have separated them out

Sentence 2, Statement 1.
Racing cars paint seem like a "plastic" finish - This is incorrect, as it's not due to a paint finish, but to the use of wraps, and no solid paints do not give a plastic look at all.

Sentence 2, Statement 2.
"a "plastic" finish more often in real life." - This I have not disputed at all, however, I would question the exact frequency that it occurs, but yes some race cars can have a plastic look to them.
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Sentence 1 you cut out the context and the importance of bold, I'm not gonna use very often in every sentence because you don't understand the context.

They don't use always the exactly same process, especially in metallic finish and heavy multilayer paint that in racing cars it's an extra weight that can be saved, and they do it when they can or when they want.

Sentence 2, Statement 1. Do you see the two subjective notes in "like a "plastic" finish" ?

"Like a" = not the same, it's relative and subjective not absolute, so you can't say that it is incorrect, you only don't agree, your perception of "like plastic" is personal as for everyone.

"plastic" into quotation marks in order to make it not an absolute truth claim, again subjective, approximate.
 
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oneloops
Sentence 1 you cut out the context and the importance of bold, I'm not gonna use very often in every sentence because you don't understand the context.
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That's not how the English language works at all. You can't use a qualifier from a later sentence in a past sentence, they are separate statements, you are expecting people to read mind in demanding that.

I didn't cut anything out as its simply not present and as a separate sentence it's a stand-alone statement.

oneloops
They don't use always the exactly same process, especially in metallic finish and heavy multilayer paint that in racing cars it's an extra weight that can be saved, and they do it when they can or when they want.
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Citation required as I've already supplied two sources that state quite the opposite.

Its also not how racecar design works, almost every race car I've come across is build below minimum weight and then use ballast to met the weight cap while allowing for fine-tuning of weight distribution. I literally have dozen of books that cover this and its the norm rather than the exception. You seem to be taking the origin of the Silver Arrows as if its the norm if that was the case no team would actually use wraps, as they weight more than paint and have to be applied over a painted finish (primer as a minimum). Nor is racecar paint applied anything like as thickly as road car paint, the weight difference is 1.5kgs vs 20 to 30 kgs, oh look another source describing exactly the same process.

The process of Primer, paint and topcoat is exactly the same, the only difference is in the standard and quality of the work, however that standard can also be found in road cars as well, with the F40 being a good example, with its paint layers being so thin you could still make out the kevlar weave of the bodywork through it.

oneloops
Sentence 2, Statement 1. Do you see the two subjective notes in "like a "plastic" finish" ?

"Like a" = not the same, it's relative and subjective not absolute, so you can't say that it is incorrect, you only don't agree, your perception of like plastic is personal as for everyone.

"plastic" into quoted marks in order to make it not an absolute truth claim, again subjective, approximative.
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None of which changes the fact that solid paint does not look like plastic at all.

I do also note, that once again, your claims are being backed up by (checks notes) absolutely nothing at all, while mine (even with my background) are all supported by sources.
 
Scaff
That's not how the English language works at all. You can't use a qualifier from a later sentence in a past sentence, they are separate statements, you are expecting people to read mind in demanding that.

I didn't cut anything out as its simply not present and as a separate sentence it's a stand-alone statement.


Citation required as I've already supplied two sources that state quite the opposite.

Its also not how racecar design works, almost every race car I've come across is build below minimum weight and then use ballast to met the weight cap while allowing for fine-tuning of weight distribution. I literally have dozen of books that cover this and its the norm rather than the exception. You seem to be taking the origin of the Silver Arrows as if its the norm if that was the case no team would actually use wraps, as they weight more than paint and have to be applied over a painted finish (primer as a minimum). Nor is racecar paint applied anything like as thickly as road car paint, the weight difference is 1.5kgs vs 20 to 30 kgs, oh look another source describing exactly the same process.

The process of Primer, paint and topcoat is exactly the same, the only difference is in the standard and quality of the work, however that standard can also be found in road cars as well, with the F40 being a good example, with its paint layers being so thin you could still make out the kevlar weave of the bodywork through it.


None of which changes the fact that solid paint does not look like plastic at all.

I do also note, that once again, your claims are being backed up by (checks notes) absolutely nothing at all, while mine (even with my background) are all supported by sources.
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The same process with different weight result is not "exactly the same process" as you stated, and different quantity can give different kind of reflections and appareance.
Citation required ? You've just given it for me : https://www.scuderiaalphatauri.com/en/painting-performance-f1/#:~:text=Painting a road car usually,car requires just 1.5 kilos.


"solid paint does not look like plastic at all" Again trying to return everything into absolute claims.

More like or "like plastic" doesn't mean exactly like plastic, but more like plastic than other metallic finishes.

Edit : I can't continue answering all those vital details that are so important to you to claim as absolute truth... from a reflection of a in-motion GT7 capture.

Talk about GT7 release window or Raytracing or go to other thread.
 
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oneloops
The same process with different weight result is not "exactly the same process" as you stated, and different quantity can give different kind of reflections and appareance.
Citation required ? You've just given it for me : https://www.scuderiaalphatauri.com/en/painting-performance-f1/#:~:text=Painting a road car usually,car requires just 1.5 kilos.
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Oh dear. That's not a different process, its different levels of quality control and skill.

That akin to claiming burger you make at home and a mass-produced one form McDonald's are different things, also undone by you ignoring the road car example I supplied.

oneloops
"solid paint does not look like plastic at all" Again trying to return everything into absolute claims.
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Then once again you will have no problem at all providing an example, oh and explaining why you used it as a point of difference between road cars and racecars, when both finishes are used.

oneloops
More like or "like plastic" doesn't mean exactly like plastic, but more like plastic than other metallic finishes.
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You really are grasping at straws here.
 
Famine
So, what about that Gran Turismo 7 release window, eh?
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It's quite amazing that there were two arguments (this and the argument about the purpose of the GR Yaris in GTS and IRL) in two different topics on two games that uses the same engine that is separated by two consoles at the same day.

Maybe I'm talking too much.
 
Dave A
I'm not sure if I'm misunderstanding you, but you know the streering wheel doesn't track the angle of the front wheels in a real car right? I'm not sure what the issue with it not doing so in a game would be. I'm sure you can change the steering sensetivity to better match what you want, though if you can get it to exactley how you want I'm not sure.
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Yeah i know that, but thats not my point.

Another user knew exactly what i was pointing out.

I dont want to go too deep but let me just say that, lets say you are coutner steering, the tyres, the steering wheel and your joystick movement will not match at this point. You can clearly feel what i mean.

A similar thing is going on in ACC. In AC (1) it was perfect! The joystick movement was carried over to the car, worked great. In ACC its similar to GT Sport. I cant play both games, just sad. And its the Same in GT 7 as i can see in the trailers.

@2:45. You can see it there. The steering wheel is not even close to what the car does and iam 100% sure that the input (joystick movement) is completely different aswell). The steering wheel itself is not linear in a real car, but thats not my issue. Steering wheel - tyres - joystick are doing "different" things in GT Sport/7 and that leads to the unresponsive feel. Really disappointing.
 
With the launch of a new console seems Sony’s wanting to keep GT7 on the mind to help sell consoles, the “Anticipated” allows a lot of room for flexibility of time, I think the real release date will probability latter next year.
 
Scaff
Oh dear. That's not a different process, its different levels of quality control and skill.

That akin to claiming burger you make at home and a mass-produced one form McDonald's are different things, also undone by you ignoring the road car example I supplied.


Then once again you will have no problem at all providing an example, oh and explaining why you used it as a point of difference between road cars and racecars, when both finishes are used.


You really are grasping at straws here.
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I don't know about you @Scaff, but I find it hilariously mind-boggling when people who have never worked in any of the industries in question jump on forums and act as if they know it all whilst repeatedly disputing the points of others without ever siting a single source.

As someone who's worked on liveries in real life: the basic process is, as you rightly said, pretty much the same and the only difference is the levels of quality and skill. Also, the wrap argument the other person was making goes out of window because wraps are increasingly now more than ever able to accurately recreate the properties of paint without looking "p L a S t I c Y".

Whether a racecar will use wrap or paint is down to what saves the most weight, and believe it or not, the actual colour of any given paint/wrap can have an impact on the total weight of a car. As a result, you'll see some racecars use paint + vinyl, some use entirely paint, while some use vinyl only, based purely on what will save the most weight.

Believe it or not, save for the sponsor logos, the Mercedes AMG F1 liveries are entirely painted, while some of the teams choose to wrap their cars.
 
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Phaceless_Ph
I don't know about you @Scaff, but I find it hilariously mind-boggling when people who have never worked in any of the industries in question jump on forums and act as if they know it all whilst repeatedly disputing the points of others without ever siting a single source.

As someone who's worked on liveries in real life: the basic process is, as you rightly said, pretty much the same and the only difference is the levels of quality and skill. Also, the wrap argument the other person was making goes out of window because wraps are increasingly now more than ever able to accurately recreate the properties of paint without looking "p L a S t I c Y".

Whether a racecar will use wrap or paint is down to what saves the most weight, and believe it or not, the actual colour of any given paint/wrap can have an impact on the total weight of a car. As a result, you'll see some racecars use paint + vinyl, some use entirely paint, while some use vinyl only, based purely on what will save the most weight.

Believe it or not, save for the sponsor logos, the Mercedes AMG F1 liveries are entirely painted, while some of the teams choose to wrap their cars.
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Thank you. :cheers:
 
ICEMAN_ZIDANE
Yeah i know that, but thats not my point.

Another user knew exactly what i was pointing out.

I dont want to go too deep but let me just say that, lets say you are coutner steering, the tyres, the steering wheel and your joystick movement will not match at this point. You can clearly feel what i mean.

A similar thing is going on in ACC. In AC (1) it was perfect! The joystick movement was carried over to the car, worked great. In ACC its similar to GT Sport. I cant play both games, just sad. And its the Same in GT 7 as i can see in the trailers.

@2:45. You can see it there. The steering wheel is not even close to what the car does and iam 100% sure that the input (joystick movement) is completely different aswell). The steering wheel itself is not linear in a real car, but thats not my issue. Steering wheel - tyres - joystick are doing "different" things in GT Sport/7 and that leads to the unresponsive feel. Really disappointing.
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Ah, I thought you just meant the steering on the peripheral was not 1:1 with how much the car is steering but I get what you mean now 👍.
 
Delighted this is imminent, the question is buy a ps5 when it drops and be stuck with a dinky 650gb actual available memory ssd ps5 or wait for the inevitable larger drive version and crucially a fully updated / expanded GT7 in a couple of years time... It depends on how much new content relative to GTS there is in the new game... Im expecting GT7 to be initially just a tarted up version GTS so maybe better to wait for fresh tracks and a better edition of PS5 to drop...
 
evldave333
Delighted this is imminent, the question is buy a ps5 when it drops and be stuck with a dinky 650gb actual available memory ssd ps5 or wait for the inevitable larger drive version and crucially a fully updated / expanded GT7 in a couple of years time... It depends on how much new content relative to GTS there is in the new game... Im expecting GT7 to be initially just a tarted up version GTS so maybe better to wait for fresh tracks and a better edition of PS5 to drop...
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To be fair, we really ought to be storing stuff on cloud these days, it's pretty much going to be the standard going forward from some point.
 
Phaceless_Ph
To be fair, we really ought to be storing stuff on cloud these days, it's pretty much going to be the standard going forward from some point.
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Good luck with that when the Playstation Network is down, or your own internet connection is down. :crazy: Cloud storage should be a back up for local storage.
 
Zlork
You have the right to be pessimistic.

As far as I'm concerned, I believe in it.
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I really hope it will be postponed cause first half of 2021 it's way too early. I don't want a GT Sport 2.0 like they did with GT5 and GT6
 
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