Gran Turismo 7 Track Conditions

[05XR8]

I remember when members here, pointed out gravel being kicked back onto the track. The build up of tyre rubber around corners. Some tracks in GT Sport have wet conditions. Will we see PD deploy standing water physics?

Will we see something similar to Project Cars LiveTrack2.0? Proper drying lines? Or even basic tyre tracks?

If there are dirt tracks, will the ruts actually get deeper. Might a car bog down(not too dramatically) if tyres are too far on soft or wet dirt?

Snow. Cold conditions. Will we finally see these type conditions, return for GT7? Will snow build up on wheels? Windscreen vision impaired on places where wipers can't reach? Build up on headlights, tailights? Build up on rear windscreens to impair reward vision while in cockpit view?

Will ambient & track temperature effect track conditions? Black ice? Longer time for tyres to come up to temperature/pressure?

Will lap times reflect more of a difference during certain times of the day? Will players benefit from waiting until the track is being "cleaned" by other players/AI(if/when qualifying)?

Will there be a difference between Arcade Mode and Simulation Mode(if there are such optional game modes)?

Edit: Variable conditions

 

[CTznOfTime]

As much as I want it the way you describe, I fear and based on past GT experience, after over 7 GT games, we still haven't seen anything similar to this being implemented, and so I doubt the physics in GT7 will be that fancy...

It resembles more that of GTS.


I hope I am wrong.

 

[BrunusCL82]

With all due respect to the fans, but this time there are no excuses for implementing dynamic rain and on all tracks.

 

[05XR8]

From my questions in the OP

After the reveal trailer https://www.gtplanet.net/new-gran-t...more-revealed-in-kazunori-yamauchi-interview/

Well, tick the standing water/puddles :

“Everything from the temperature, to the humidity, to the surface temperature of the track, to the cars passing over puddles to spray the water off the track. All those new things are implemented and calculated within the physics.”

Ambient temperature & humidity, track temperature: check

How cold temps get? Depends if PD bring back snow conditions from the past games. Theres been snow at Tsukuba in Best Motoring videos. Though the track itself was cleared, for the drivers to race.

 

[Magog]

With all due respect to the fans, but this time there are no excuses for implementing dynamic rain and on all tracks.

I have a feeling the dirt tracks won't get rain.

 

[Imari]

From my questions in the OP

After the reveal trailer https://www.gtplanet.net/new-gran-t...more-revealed-in-kazunori-yamauchi-interview/

Well, tick the standing water/puddles :

Ambient temperature & humidity, track temperature: check

How cold temps get? Depends if PD bring back snow conditions from the past games. Theres been snow at Tsukuba in Best Motoring videos. Though the track itself was cleared, for the drivers to race.

I have real doubts about how seriously they'll take the standing water thing. Doing it properly would imply that you can hydroplane the car, and that's very not casual friendly. It's one thing for the track to have less grip overall, it's another to suddenly spin because you hit a puddle wrong.

If I had to guess, I'd say that they use "physics" to calculate correct graphical presentation for the track - drying lines where cars are driving, for example. I'd expect the actual car physics to still just be a flat grip modifier that is consistent everywhere. I'd like to be surprised, but this seems like something that would hurt their dedication to accessibility.

 

[05XR8]

I have real doubts about how seriously they'll take the standing water thing. Doing it properly would imply that you can hydroplane the car, and that's very not casual friendly. It's one thing for the track to have less grip overall, it's another to suddenly spin because you hit a puddle wrong.

If I had to guess, I'd say that they use "physics" to calculate correct graphical presentation for the track - drying lines where cars are driving, for example. I'd expect the actual car physics to still just be a flat grip modifier that is consistent everywhere. I'd like to be surprised, but this seems like something that would hurt their dedication to accessibility.

I agree about the use of the physics calculations. We know PD don't look at other gains, but Forza wasn't too bad with the rivers across the track. If the car doesn't spin out, at least a brief break in momentum. However, we do know PD love visual details. I'd guess the splashes will be highlighted. Something we didn't get to see in wet Northern Isle infield events.

The drying line will be interesting. If PD have updated the track edge grip level as well, wonder if enough cars drive off the driving line, will a dry line or less wet line, still form.

 

[Yard_Sale]

I think the “drying” line will offer different grip levels. It’ll be simply coding in better or worse grip like they already do.

However, I think the “drying” line will be generic, and not actually representing where people are driving.

It’ll be like , the driving line aid….but 2 tracks instead of 1. Pre-programmed line. Pre-programmed in how quick, or slow it dries

 

[ThePotatoKing]

From my questions in the OP

After the reveal trailer https://www.gtplanet.net/new-gran-t...more-revealed-in-kazunori-yamauchi-interview/

Well, tick the standing water/puddles :

Ambient temperature & humidity, track temperature: check

How cold temps get? Depends if PD bring back snow conditions from the past games. Theres been snow at Tsukuba in Best Motoring videos. Though the track itself was cleared, for the drivers to race.

I would take these claims with an absurdly big grain of salt here, because it all sounds like a nightmare to simulate properly with the graphics they have shown thus far while keeping a steady 60 fps framerate at the same time.

 

[05XR8]

I would take these claims with an absurdly big grain of salt here, because it all sounds like a nightmare to simulate properly with the graphics they have shown thus far while keeping a steady 60 fps framerate at the same time.

Until yesterday, I'd been watching the trailer clips(except the very first GT& trailer) on my ipad and mobile phone. Big change of view, once I watched on the big 4k screen. I now see what the complaints are.
The dry line, rubber on the edges of tracks, either streams of water across the track and puddles, I think they can do. The GT Sport wet conditions look good. Those are lacking the drying line. If it looks like that, the game should be fine. The clouds moving, forming, disappearing, we'll see how it varies between PS4 & PS5.

 

[Samcastor]

I have real doubts about how seriously they'll take the standing water thing. Doing it properly would imply that you can hydroplane the car, and that's very not casual friendly. It's one thing for the track to have less grip overall, it's another to suddenly spin because you hit a puddle wrong.

If I had to guess, I'd say that they use "physics" to calculate correct graphical presentation for the track - drying lines where cars are driving, for example. I'd expect the actual car physics to still just be a flat grip modifier that is consistent everywhere. I'd like to be surprised, but this seems like something that would hurt their dedication to accessibility.

The two examples you use here are not mutually exclusive though. Maybe they will not make driving over puddles very punishing but I fail to see how a grip level modifier along with graphical representation of driving over the puddle are different from doing it properly as you put it in the context of a video game simulating these interactions. Hydroplaning can be represented by changing the grip modifier to a very low value to a degree adequate for a video game simulation. The conditions for this to happen can similarly also be reasonably simplified and modeled. Not to mention you can already spin out cars in GTS very easily by hitting kerbs and going slightly off track, so I do not think it would be such a significant increase in accessibility.

 

[Imari]

The two examples you use here are not mutually exclusive though. Maybe they will not make driving over puddles very punishing but I fail to see how a grip level modifier along with graphical representation of driving over the puddle are different from doing it properly as you put it in the context of a video game simulating these interactions. Hydroplaning can be represented by changing the grip modifier to a very low value to a degree adequate for a video game simulation. The conditions for this to happen can similarly also be reasonably simplified and modeled. Not to mention you can already spin out cars in GTS very easily by hitting kerbs and going slightly off track, so I do not think it would be such a significant increase in accessibility.

They are mutually exclusive. If you have a flat grip modifier on all areas of the track, that means that you do not have areas where the grip changes to a very low value for hydroplaning. If you did, it wouldn't be a flat grip modifier on all areas of the track.

Not to mention that what you suggest would be a very bad way of modelling hydroplaning. Hydroplaning depends on the depth of the water, the speed of the car and the tread of the tyre. Just having areas of the track with less grip at all times leads to really wacky low speed behaviour.

It's not that modelling hydroplaning can't be done. It's not that hard, and several other games have done it. It's whether Polyphony would want to do it in the first place. Live tracks and track grip evolution seems to be something that they've been pretty careful not to talk about too much.

You can have your own opinion on how much something like that would affect accessibility, but it's pretty unarguable that it's more complex. It's another layer of complexity for players to learn, and the question is whether this is something that Polyphony would allow in their game. They already show a significant bias towards accessibility in their physics systems, and in how basic their AI system is. Does physically interactive puddles and hydroplaning add anything positive that Polyphony want? Or does it work against the principles that they try to design their game around.

It obviously adds significantly to the graphical aspects, which we know that they consider highly important. It's not a surprise that they'd add weather as a graphical subsystem. It's very debatable how far they will wish to take the physical simulation of such challenging conditions.

 

[05XR8]

The mention of snow conditions and snow tyres in another thread, plus the recent talk of Road America, I decided to create a race in PC2. PD mention real time weather or weather in real time. PC2 use a real date clock and it sets the conditions to the season. I selected Road America and is Winter at that location. However, it automatically sets track conditions to snow. I can change the conditions manually, by selecting the season(Spring, Summer, Autumn) and it changes the date(1/3/2022, 1/6/2022, etc) to match the month of that season. Wonder if PD will default track conditions with the seasons as well.

Maybe tracks That feature wet conditions are programmed in such a way to mimic real world conditions during those seasons. Track is more damp in morning, hazy conditions in summer, etc.

 

[XSquareStickIt]

With regards to the questions posed in the OP, I think PD will implement all of them... then make real grip loss settings inaccessible in time trails. PDLogic(tm).

I'm hoping for a far fetched feature that pulls weather data in real time for tracks and then roughly simulates it within the game. For example, if it's 10pm at Spa and raining slightly when you select the "real time weather" option, you'll get Spa at nighttime and slightly wet, with water building up. Imagine the chao- I mean, variety it'd bring to FIA races!

I mean, GT6 simulated star positions...

 

[Yard_Sale]

I see something happening like that for the daily’s Square, but not for something points-based like FIA. You’d get the top split guys complaining how one lobby had bad weather and one didn’t…… OR, you would get a bunch of dudes across all the spectrum eyeing the weather report, and entering when the weather was good.

I for one think it’d be rad tho 👍🏼

 

[NAXEHT]

Random rain would be terrible in my opinion. Might as well just skip the races and have lotteries.

Edit: ^ To clear any possible misunderstanding, I’m talking about competitive FIA races mainly.

 

[Yard_Sale]

In another thread, I commented on how I don’t think variable weather will show its face in sport mode. That is, unless they’re willing to lengthen their daily C and some FIA events (which I’m all for btw). For variable weather to have some impact in sport mode, you have to theoretically start with a dry track (not necessarily of course), rain comes ——> everyone pits for rain tires ——->dry line emerges over “x” amount of laps or time ——-> people go back in for racing slicks.

If you tried to play this out over a 20 minute daily C or 25-30 minute FIA race, you’re going to have to make these transitions over just a few laps. Might as well just stay out on slicks.

I think you’ll see variable weather in single player mode, and as an option in private lobbies.

I just hope we get it

@XSquareStickIt, because I’m lazy and can’t be bothered with the extra thumb strokes of hitting the “post” button in this thread, going over to the track conditions or physics thread (or whatever thread it was) quoting you there and typing out a response… I’ll just respond to you here

I agree that there shouldn’t need a beamNG level damage model, but something that resembled their crash physics model would be good

As for the state of GTS crash model, I’m torn. On one hand it’s not super realistic, but it’s not horrible either. Plus it makes revenge punts all the more satisfying. I think the wonky damage physics , crash physics and…ummm… physics-physics model are all tied together. The same reason you can play pong with all the cars is the same reason crash damage doesn’t really affect you all that much, and is the same reason how we can crush kerbs in this game like we were in a trophy truck with 36” of travel

 

[05XR8]

In another thread, I commented on how I don’t think variable weather will show its face in sport mode. That is, unless they’re willing to lengthen their daily C and some FIA events (which I’m all for btw). For variable weather to have some impact in sport mode, you have to theoretically start with a dry track (not necessarily of course), rain comes ——> everyone pits for rain tires ——->dry line emerges over “x” amount of laps or time ——-> people go back in for racing slicks.

If you tried to play this out over a 20 minute daily C or 25-30 minute FIA race, you’re going to have to make these transitions over just a few laps. Might as well just stay out on slicks.

I think you’ll see variable weather in single player mode, and as an option in private lobbies.

I just hope we get it

@XSquareStickIt, because I’m lazy and can’t be bothered with the extra thumb strokes of hitting the “post” button in this thread, going over to the track conditions or physics thread (or whatever thread it was) quoting you there and typing out a response… I just respond to you here

I agree that there shouldn’t need a beamNG level damage model, but something that resembled their crash physics model would be good

As for the state of GTS crash model, I’m torn. On one hand it’s not super realistic, but it’s not horrible either. Plus it makes revenge punts all the more satisfying. I think the wonky damage, crash physics and…ummm… physics-physics model are all tied together. The same reason you can play pong with all the cars is the same reason crash damage doesn’t really affect you all that much, and is the same reason how we can crush kerbs in this game like we were in a trophy truck with 36” of travel

How it works in PC2, I did a One Lap race. It allows four slots for weather conditions. Time is set to sync with race length. I can choose up 60x.
Slot 1: Light cloud
Slot 2: rain
Slot 3 clear
Slot 4 Medium cloud

Race starts dry. less than a minute, track is drenched, halfway through the lap, rain clears, but track is still wet with dry line forming. Last 1/4 of the lap, dry line has formed but track edge is wet.

In a Sport Mode Race C, it’s doable to start wet or dry. If someone chooses to gamble on slicks for the whole race, thinking the race will come back to them at the end, those that pit the 20-30 seconds for wets, may still have the advantage to catch the player on slicks.
With PD’s new weather data(we’ll have to see), this can all depend on time of day and temperature. Can the wets survive in summer heat as the track is drying? Or will those slicks have enough heat during a cold weather setting?

 

[Pete_J_C]

One thing I have not seen mentioned from searching, is how the race setup philosophy behind GT Sport online races is not going to mesh very well with dynamic weather. It's noted that Sport has been a kind of laboratory for GT7 in some respects. If then, the "longer" races in GT7 are similar to the longer races in gt sport (like 19-20ish minutes, 30mins tops in some FIA races), then will dynamic weather even be felt?

If using sub-optimal tyres for certain conditions takes off 2 or so seconds from a 1:30 laptime for example, is it worth going into the pits for 20 seconds to change them when half of the race is already done? Even if of course the transition between weather conditions is sped-up somewhat, would it actually have any impact on strategy? How quickly can weather change in a 20ish minute race to make it interesting.

This is just my perspective but to make this interesting, things could be introduced such as qualification could occur in the wet while race in the dry or vice versa (weather changes or stays the same based on the location rather than race settings), or maybe yellow / even red flags mattering which would influence strategy decisions, or longer races where changing the tyres when you see some black clouds feels rewarding.

Tidgney mentioned how in the HUD we saw previously, there was a % of how much rain was on the track, which would really make things uninteresting at least for me. what about others?

 

[Samus]

Even if of course the transition between weather conditions is sped-up somewhat, would it actually have any impact on strategy? How quickly can weather change in a 20ish minute race to make it interesting.

It's been years since I played it but isn't that how it was in GT6? I'm sure I remember ~30 minute events where it'd go from wet to totally dry to wet very quickly.

 

[Scaff]

I'm hoping for a far fetched feature that pulls weather data in real time for tracks and then roughly simulates it within the game. For example, if it's 10pm at Spa and raining slightly when you select the "real time weather" option, you'll get Spa at nighttime and slightly wet, with water building up. Imagine the chao- I mean, variety it'd bring to FIA races!

AMS2's real weather feature does this.

"One of the highlights of the new update is a first in sim racing - the ultra-advanced weather system of the Madness engine along with LiveTrack technology used in Automobilista 2 is now hooked up with a live weather forecast system, providing accurate weather conditions for all tracks in the game - for today, tomorrow and any given day over the last 40 years, allowing users to travel back in time and even peek into future conditions for any given location in Automobilista 2."

Goes back to 1979 and includes today's weather and uses the forecast for the next day if you want to use that.

Automobilista 2 May 2021 Development Update

[ATTACH] Greetings everyone! We hope you all are doing well and staying safe as we continue to go through what hopefully will turn out to be the final...

forum.reizastudios.com

 

[05XR8]

I can see GT7 having similar, but simpler settings. I’d like to know how they found more power in the PS4, to add these features. I mean, Kaz always says they max out the systems and I figured the PS4 was maxed out already.

 

[Yard_Sale]

The problem, as mentioned millions of times on this board, is the features have to be exactly the same between a bone stock PS4 and a PS5…. In sport mode at least

That’s why I think you’ll see different features available to PS5 owners in single player mode. Either at launch or soon after.

In all honesty, the full fat PS5 version of the game is probably already coded in. They’ll just release it as DLC over time

 

[05XR8]

That’s why I‘d like to know were they holding back this feature, if there was more power(in the PS4) to have this feature. We know PS5 won’t be a problem.

 

[Yard_Sale]

I think even in single player mode, the base PS4 will have most of the features. It’s just gonna look like ass. Like ACC or PC2 on a base PS4 bad

 

[Scaff]

We know it can be done on the PS4, Project Cars Live Track system demonstrated that (as in weather itself, not the Real Weather system AMS2 build on top of Live Track 3.0).

So it's then a question then is PD capable of creating its version of that, and what compromises in other areas would they make for it?

While I would like to be wrong, I feel that we will get something that looks good, but in terms of physics is actually still rather basic.

 

[FPV MIC]

AMS2's real weather feature does this.

"One of the highlights of the new update is a first in sim racing - the ultra-advanced weather system of the Madness engine along with LiveTrack technology used in Automobilista 2 is now hooked up with a live weather forecast system, providing accurate weather conditions for all tracks in the game - for today, tomorrow and any given day over the last 40 years, allowing users to travel back in time and even peek into future conditions for any given location in Automobilista 2."

Goes back to 1979 and includes today's weather and uses the forecast for the next day if you want to use that.

Automobilista 2 May 2021 Development Update

[ATTACH] Greetings everyone! We hope you all are doing well and staying safe as we continue to go through what hopefully will turn out to be the final...

forum.reizastudios.com

I remember an older Tiger Woods golf game having this as well but I don't think I had an internet connection then so I don't know how well it worked

Edit: It was Tiger Woods PGA Tour 10 that released in 2009.

 

[05XR8]

We know it can be done on the PS4, Project Cars Live Track system demonstrated that (as in weather itself, not the Real Weather system AMS2 build on top of Live Track 3.0).

So it's then a question then is PD capable of creating its version of that, and what compromises in other areas would they make for it?

While I would like to be wrong, I feel that we will get something that looks good, but in terms of physics is actually still rather basic.

Exactly.

 

[05XR8]

The clip at Tsukuba, with the changing conditions, is marvellous.

 

[05XR8]

Noticed the shadow from the Dunlop structure hasn't changed since the start of the clip. The clouds form and move. Track conditions change. Wind picks up and dies down. When the sun shines again, shadow hasn't moved.