Gran Turismo 7 vs. Gran Turismo Sport: Side-by-Side Screenshots

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833
Colombia
Colombia
The real circuits are stuning in the enviorement and graphic recreation, the scapes and cars as well, no prblem whit that. But the real problem resides in the original circuits in this case High Speed Ring, looks unfinished or rush, because Trial Mountain in the last images looks great and detailed.
The game looks great like GT Sport but inconsistent in some parts.
 
471
Croatia
Croatia
I'm trying to decide if Ray tracing would even work in Scapes - aren't Scapes just HDRI cube maps? There's no 3d geometry beyond the car for the light rays to interact with. Ultimately, what I'm getting at, is that I really want to see a comparison of replays between GT Sport and GT7...I think that is where the biggest differences will be.

edit: This Boss 429 screenshot from GT7 Scapes gives me mixed signals. The scoop, bumpers and wheels don't seem to give any evidence of self reflection (the inside area of the scoop looks particularly wrong), but the headlight and foglight lenses appear to be reflecting the paint color. So...not sure. It could be that the the ray tracing excludes any geometry below a certain reflection threshold - the more diffuse ray tracing calculations are more expensive from what I remember.


Self-reflecting mirrors and spoilers etc. are usually the best way to tell and we haven't seen that in Scapes at all. The Boss 429 scape is the same in that respect as the others shown so far.

It is possible like you say that it wouldn't work with the way the background photos are implemented. I don't see why, you can load a HDRI map in any 3d rendering program (which is by its nature ray traced) to light a car model, but maybe it's the spatial data they use for collision and such that is the problem.

If they can't take advantage of ray tracing then it completely defeats the point of having a photo mode aiming for extreme realism (with the car models being basically flawless and the backgrounds being photographs) unless PD goes back to actually 3D modelling photo locations like before but that method has it's own set of downsides obviously.

I'm really interested to see if on-track photomode uses ray tracing, there is no excuse not to.
 

SWAGMASTER69

Premium
26
Russian Federation
Moscow
There's actually zero restrictions I see for PD to not to use Ray-Tracing in GT7 Scapes mode.
When you take a picture in Scapes, it takes a few seconds to render in HQ, you could easily drop-in additional RT calculation with all the additional horsepower of a PS5 and it's RT-DEDICATED, SELLING POINT processors.

And there's no problem with RT self-reflections either. The car parts like wings, mirrors and wipers would reflect on the body and glass even in a dark room with a spotlight. RT Reflections only affect the car, not the photo-background, and they have nothing to do with it.

Here are a few simple renders i've made for the demonstration. Of course, the lighting is all wrong because I don't have time for it and the data that PD uses for their scapes is a bit more sophisticated than this scene that was pulled off in 30 seconds, but for the demonstration that'll do. Notice that presense of a photo-background and background-based reflections has 0 effect on RT-based self reflections on a car.







DRIVECLUB, one of the oldest PS4 racing titles, not only has impressive rain simulation, but pulled off big grids of cars and natural self-reflections even without the RT and additional computing power.
We are talking about rendering still images. 3D car with reflections, Photo-background and a cubemap for secondary car reflections made from it. This is decades old tech and one of the easiest things to pull of with RT and PS5's hardware.
I can Imagine that simulation takes away a lot of power and we can't have RT in races, but they do have it in replays and Menus. But not in the Photorealistic STILL IMAGE RENDERER with photo-backgrounds. Blows my mind.
I just don't understand what's the reason behind it, besides the PS4 release. It shouldn't be this way. But PD knows better, maybe there is an issue after all that is bigger than a PS4 release and lack of time to do things they want to do.

 
8,814
United States
Marin County
Self-reflecting mirrors and spoilers etc. are usually the best way to tell and we haven't seen that in Scapes at all. The Boss 429 scape is the same in that respect as the others shown so far.

It is possible like you say that it wouldn't work with the way the background photos are implemented. I don't see why, you can load a HDRI map in any 3d rendering program (which is by its nature ray traced) to light a car model, but maybe it's the spatial data they use for collision and such that is the problem.

If they can't take advantage of ray tracing then it completely defeats the point of having a photo mode aiming for extreme realism (with the car models being basically flawless and the backgrounds being photographs) unless PD goes back to actually 3D modelling photo locations like before but that method has it's own set of downsides obviously.

I'm really interested to see if on-track photomode uses ray tracing, there is no excuse not to.
I'm not ready to say there is definitely not ray tracing in some capacity in Scapes. If you look at the headlight lens on the Boss 429 Mustang...I don't know how the red reflection would get in there if it weren't for some sort of geometrically correct ray tracing. Why you don't also see the red paint in the bumper is a question though. Perhaps this is an earlier build and they are still in the process of optimization. I can see how full on ray tracing wouldn't work though if there is only an HDRI cube map...any ray bouncing off the car into the environment either wouldn't have an object to collide with, or if it did collide it wouldn't be geometrically correct. So maybe it will be an HDRI cube map for environmental reflections and some sort of limited ray tracing for self reflections. That would produce a pretty convincing result I'd guess. But then what do you do for the bumper...can it have both? That seems rather complicated.
 
1,541
vspectra06
vspectra06
There's actually zero restrictions I see for PD to not to use Ray-Tracing in GT7 Scapes mode.
When you take a picture in Scapes, it takes a few seconds to render in HQ, you could easily drop-in additional RT calculation with all the additional horsepower of a PS5 and it's RT-DEDICATED, SELLING POINT processors.

And there's no problem with RT self-reflections either. The car parts like wings, mirrors and wipers would reflect on the body and glass even in a dark room with a spotlight. RT Reflections only affect the car, not the photo-background, and they have nothing to do with it.

Here are a few simple renders i've made for the demonstration. Of course, the lighting is all wrong because I don't have time for it and the data that PD uses for their scapes is a bit more sophisticated than this scene that was pulled off in 30 seconds, but for the demonstration that'll do. Notice that presense of a photo-background and background-based reflections has 0 effect on RT-based self reflections on a car.







DRIVECLUB, one of the oldest PS4 racing titles, not only has impressive rain simulation, but pulled off big grids of cars and natural self-reflections even without the RT and additional computing power.
We are talking about rendering still images. 3D car with reflections, Photo-background and a cubemap for secondary car reflections made from it. This is decades old tech and one of the easiest things to pull of with RT and PS5's hardware.
I can Imagine that simulation takes away a lot of power and we can't have RT in races, but they do have it in replays and Menus. But not in the Photorealistic STILL IMAGE RENDERER with photo-backgrounds. Blows my mind.
I just don't understand what's the reason behind it, besides the PS4 release. It shouldn't be this way. But PD knows better, maybe there is an issue after all that is bigger than a PS4 release and lack of time to do things they want to do.

All of the game images so far still look pretty work-in-progress, they may just have RT disabled completely in this build. There's noticeable jagged edges that should be cleaned up in a more final build, even GTSport aliasing isn't this bad on a PS4 Pro. There doesn't look to be any RT reflections in the garage scene either, but Kaz said that's one of the areas it will be in the game.

51440915243_2d1587aa05_4k.jpg


51440914923_953458b11b_4k.jpg
 
36
Germany
Germany
I would like us to talk about real in game graphics that are close to photorealism, Instead of disscusions about the graphics of photo mode and what subtle changes there are in the details.

The photo mode already had a good quality in Gran Turismo Sport.

It's really a bit tiring that the actual gameplay graphics are anything but impressive, even though so much more would have been possible.
 
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179
Germany
Munich
Hitokiri-666
Are scapes picutres really the indicator for good graphic??? As someone before mentioned, even the PS3 could do this, with some time to render.
This says nothing! We need moving, drivinge scenes (same car, same tracke GT-S vs. GT7 (PS4 + PS5) to compare the games. Besides, as graphics are already really good, I am more interested if the car sounds got improved to. Especially all high-pitch cars, like some Ferrari, Lamborghini etc. sound still pretty lame, compared to the real world.
 
764
Philippines
Philippines
Are scapes picutres really the indicator for good graphic??? As someone before mentioned, even the PS3 could do this, with some time to render.
This says nothing! We need moving, drivinge scenes (same car, same tracke GT-S vs. GT7 (PS4 + PS5) to compare the games. Besides, as graphics are already really good, I am more interested if the car sounds got improved to. Especially all high-pitch cars, like some Ferrari, Lamborghini etc. sound still pretty lame, compared to the real world.
Yeah, I noticed that they didn't mention anything about the sound simulation. I hope they don't get complacent and think the sounds are good enough when there's still a lot of room for improvements.
 
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955
Indonesia
Indonesia
Yeah, I noticed that they didn't mention anything about the sound simulation. I hope they don't get complacent and think the sounds is good enough when there's still a lot of room for improvements.
But the trailer has showcased the car's sounds right?
 

eran0004

Premium
9,724
Sweden
Sweden
eran0004
I'm trying to decide if Ray tracing would even work in Scapes - aren't Scapes just HDRI cube maps? There's no 3d geometry beyond the car for the light rays to interact with. Ultimately, what I'm getting at, is that I really want to see a comparison of replays between GT Sport and GT7...I think that is where the biggest differences will be.
With HDRI and ray tracing you typically let the lighting come from the HDRI itself, which creates more realistic shading than if you were to use lights. I suspect GT Sport (and 7) use some hybrid system, where RT is perhaps used for diffuse lighting, while shadows are rendered with a secondary light source. The fact that there are no 3D objects in the scene other than the car means that the ray tracing is much faster since you pretty much just need a single bounce per ray.
 
1,256
Ireland
Ireland
Racerx_34
This is the discussion thread for an article on GTPlanet:

Gran Turismo 7 vs. Gran Turismo Sport: Side-by-Side Screenshots

When Sony released a batch of 4K Gran Turismo 7 screenshots of the new pre-order cars last week we were suitably impressed. Though it’s never really been in doubt, it showed that GT7 would be right up there when it comes to visuals...
It's hard to be sure on the improvement, given they both run off photographs with renders overlayed.
The shading and texture on 7 does seem to be an improvement, and the glare from areas that have light to dark transitions
seems to be improved.

I'd say we're into the point of diminishing returns at this stage.
Show me the improvement in race photos and then we'll really know how big an improvement 7 is.
 
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1,945
Czech Republic
Prague
karelpipa
But the trailer has showcased the car's sounds right?
Even GT1 intro has great car sounds.
___________________________

How much hidden and secret info and videos you have interests me Famine.
 
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12,050
Australia
Melbourne
Neomone/GTP_Imari
Would it be possible that the first two trailers were made in the previous years when the game was still work in progress and the current graphics are much better, they just haven't shown it to us on purpose yet?
I mean, anything's possible but it's hard to think of reasons why they would use intentionally substandard material in their marketing. The whole point is to get people to buy the game, not to troll your users.
But the trailer has showcased the car's sounds right?
I wouldn't trust any trailer sounds to be the same as in-game unless they say so specifically, and even then it's iffy. Dubbing trailers is pretty standard, and PD have done it many, many times in the past. Too many people have been fooled by trailers into thinking that the next GT would sound great only to find out afterwards that it was all dubbed.

 
38
United States
United States
Man i can't tell the difference on my computer from 2005.


I can't believe gt 7 will be 500 dollars when i only paid about 40 for sport.

Such an outrage.....
 

SWAGMASTER69

Premium
26
Russian Federation
Moscow
They just showed a glimpse of the car sounds in the trailer but they haven't talked what kind improvements they've made if there's any at all.
GT7 is Just an overhauled GTS with a Classic Career mode, ~100 new cars and a few new tracks, and some overhauls to the weather system, which were possible even on a PS3. They didn't have time and resources to do a ton of things, and sound redisign is certainly not in the first place for them. That would mean changing the whole GTS sound system.

I personally find more frustrating the camera system, like the interior cam they showed us in trailer. The camera never moves and vibrates, it's like it's glued to the seat, it's not very realistic and convincing. Not fun enough for not-a-FIA-hardcore-GT game.


All of the game images so far still look pretty work-in-progress, they may just have RT disabled completely in this build. There's noticeable jagged edges that should be cleaned up in a more final build, even GTSport aliasing isn't this bad on a PS4 Pro. There doesn't look to be any RT reflections in the garage scene either, but Kaz said that's one of the areas it will be in the game.

51440915243_2d1587aa05_4k.jpg


51440914923_953458b11b_4k.jpg
It's a little late for them to show WIP content. They've started a marketing campaign, opened pre-orders and the game is only 6 months away from us. Not much they could do in a time limit like this. (other than delay the game a couple years again, to keep up with the traditions)

Some menu scenes do have RT in real-time no problem in GT7, but why some menu scenes don't - total mystery


If they keep Scapes mode with no RT, This is a huge missed opportunity. Some people play GT because they want to take advantage of the extremely realistic photomode, but not taking advantage of a PS5 and RT in a new-gen game is either very sad, or an indicator of all the struggles they have to go trough with the game.

Without RT, GT7/GTS photos can be pretty much recreated in GT5's photomode. It doesn't have lighting system as advanced as the GTS, but still makes amazing shots and has incredibly high detailed cars.
 
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1,541
vspectra06
vspectra06
It's a little late for them to show WIP content. They've started a marketing campaign, opened pre-orders and the game is only 6 months away from us. Not much they could do in a time limit like this. (other than delay the game a couple years again, to keep up with the traditions)

Some menu scenes do have RT in real-time no problem in GT7, but why some menu scenes don't - total mystery


If they keep Scapes mode with no RT, This is a huge missed opportunity. Some people play GT because they want to take advantage of the extremely realistic photomode, but not taking advantage of a PS5 and RT in a new-gen game is either very sad, or an indicator of all the struggles they have to go trough with the game.

Without RT, GT7/GTS photos can be pretty much recreated in GT5's photomode. It doesn't have lighting system as advanced as the GTS, but still makes amazing shots and has incredibly high detailed cars.
All games shown before release are still a work-in-progress regardless of how close it is to release. Even an extra month of work in game development can make a significant difference in final polish, bug fixing, and optimization, which is why games like Guardians of the Galaxy still have a "development footage. Subject to change" notice in its recent gameplay trailer although the game releases in just 1 month. Final optimization and polish continues to the very end of development and beyond, which is why all games nowadays have a big day-1 patch despite the game reaching gold status weeks/months earlier. Image quality, framerate stability, what features get enabled etc., all of this gets optimized near the end of development.

The latest GT7 trailer with night rain at Le Mans didn't even have water spray from the cars, but we can be pretty confident it will in the final game given they already showed water spray in the Tsukuba gameplay and GTSport also has it. It was just a different build where this feature wasn't enabled yet for this track here.

oNNcVWF.gif
 
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20,866
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
They didn't have time and resources to do a ton of things, and sound redisign is certainly not in the first place for them. That would mean changing the whole GTS sound system.
Are you another PD employee undercover? How do you know what they had the time and resource to do? The people working on sound aren't modelling cars, designing menus or programming a career mode.
 
36
Germany
Germany
to be honest the "Fake Raytraycing" in Gran Turismo Sport has already delivered quite remarkable results, as you can see here:


In my opinion, the environments need to be completely rebuilt from scratch and not just recycled from version to version.

I mean the following can't seriously be called next gen graphics:

Gran Turismo 7 Trailer 2021 - bad graphics.png


And I can't accept the argument that this is an earlier stage of development here. After all, you would only want to show the best sides of the game in a trailer. Apparently that was it then :rolleyes:
 
82
Slovakia
Slovakia
to be honest the "Fake Raytraycing" in Gran Turismo Sport has already delivered quite remarkable results, as you can see here:


In my opinion, the environments need to be completely rebuilt from scratch and not just recycled from version to version.

I mean the following can't seriously be called next gen graphics:

View attachment 1083547

And I can't accept the argument that this is an earlier stage of development here. After all, you would only want to show the best sides of the game in a trailer. Apparently that was it then :rolleyes:
I still can't understand why they put it there in the trailer.
 
156
Traind
Traind
The other big graphical improvement I've noticed is in the last trailer. Look at the interior gameplay shots and you will see there is greater detail and better lighting in the car interiors. The interior lighting needed improvement because in GT Sport, while the interiors look very good, you cannot always see the gauges due to shadows. Even on a sunny day.

I am curious to see if all cars from GT Sport will have the better interiors; I'd assume so but we'll have to see more.

Also, photo mode is cool but I want a garage you can walk through in 3d, with lighting and graphics like the brand central has. The red Honda NSX screen above on this page has great quality, hope that is a garage scene that is real time and 3d.
 
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20,866
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Still wonder what went on with GT Sport at that time. Clearly it was far from finished when they showed that trailer in May 2016 and announced a release date for 6 months later, which as we know, they didn't make. They needed another 18 months. One can make the simple assumption that Sony forced them to do it but didn't anyone from Sony see what stage they were at and think "Yeah, maybe we'll let you work on that some more".

I guess you can say it doesn't matter though, games still sell, but it does make them look sloppy.
 
764
Philippines
Philippines
to be honest the "Fake Raytraycing" in Gran Turismo Sport has already delivered quite remarkable results, as you can see here:


In my opinion, the environments need to be completely rebuilt from scratch and not just recycled from version to version.

I mean the following can't seriously be called next gen graphics:

View attachment 1083547

And I can't accept the argument that this is an earlier stage of development here. After all, you would only want to show the best sides of the game in a trailer. Apparently that was it then :rolleyes:
It's not a fully next gen game anyway. It's meant to be playable on a decade old hardware. An overhead shot from a non open world game would literally look like a mid 2000's PC game because they're not meant to be seen that way.
2021-09-30 19_18_43-DRIVECLUB™ - Cam Test - YouTube.png
 
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