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- GTP_Famine
This is the discussion thread for an article on GTPlanet:
Gran Turismo 7's Car Models Use 500,000 Polygons Each
- Thread starter Famine
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- LilBigHulk
What blows my mind is they went from 3,000 polygons on PS2 to 500,000 polygons on PS3.
- 251
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- LilBigHulk
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- JDA1982
Absolutely, although we're a long way off 100% accuracy at the moment, but the real issue is diminishing returns as @alba stated.
Whereas in the PS1 to PS2 days it took just a few thousand polygons to make a substantially better looking model, if you doubled the polygon count from 500k to 1m you wouldn't likely see a model that looks close to twice as detailed now. But it'd take more work to make and more power to render.
So at some point you reach a point where you question if putting the effort and resources into more polygons is better than putting them into other techniques and areas which may provide a bigger impact visually for the same power.
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- VincentVendetta
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- Tompie913
I seem to remember Kaz saying that the modelers went overboard with the PS3 models. Since then the main advances were in things like tessellation (which I believe they started using in GT6) and physically-based rendering. Plus I'm sure the models used in races on PS3 were lower-poly LOD models, whereas now they can probably use the models from the PS3 showrooms on the track. I'm pretty sure most of the cars that were added in Sport's DLC were just spruced up GT6 models.
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- evildave333
This reminds me of the day I picked up Starwing for the good old SNES when it had it's spangly new Super FX chip for processing polygons. I looked it up for a laugh Super FX1=1000 Polygons per second & running at 10.5 MHz lol! Its obscene how good GT7 looks, with a long view its even better... Im looking forward to taking some gorgeous race photo's when it drops.
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- Normalaatsra
It's possibly related to the reason why GT5 premium models didn't feature adaptive tessellation in GT6 unlike newer vehicles there? Can the new game engine not support automated tessellation, and the car model requires rework?
A good car to compare is the supercharged Mini Cooper S, I believe it was in GT5 Prologue, it's interior model in GT6 was pretty block-like, but in GTS it's many times better.
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- Emet_PL
Models in GT5 were made of 200-500k polygons, but... it was the complete number and "final".
In GTS and GT7 base model is also made of up to 500k polygons, but thanks to the tessellation, the final effect is like the number of polygons is almost infinite.
When getting close to some part of a car, polygon mesh gets much denser in that area. That's why it looks so much better than the GT5 models (some new cars in GT6 also benefited from this). Of course that's not the only reason, Today there are better shaders, materials, lighting etc..
In GTS and GT7 base model is also made of up to 500k polygons, but thanks to the tessellation, the final effect is like the number of polygons is almost infinite.
When getting close to some part of a car, polygon mesh gets much denser in that area. That's why it looks so much better than the GT5 models (some new cars in GT6 also benefited from this). Of course that's not the only reason, Today there are better shaders, materials, lighting etc..
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Imagine what they will be doing in another 25 years
I remember getting the first game when it came out, and showing people the replays etc, its like tv , i remember people saying..
I remember getting the first game when it came out, and showing people the replays etc, its like tv , i remember people saying..
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- Nicest part of hell
Probably models with 500,001 polygons.Imagine what they will be doing in another 25 years
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- LilBigHulk
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There are already rips of GT Sport models out there and I know where to get them. I grabbed the Alpine VGT Gr1 car and threw it in blender. For anyone unfamiliar what number to look, we are looking at "Triangles"
First and second image: About 350k If you dont include the thing on top of the car as, which seems to be used for window reflections from the interior, and lowpoly collision models. This also does not include all 4 tires. All 4 rims without tire is 65k polygons. Putting a driver, merging all 4 rims with their tires on would probably result getting pretty close to 500k polygons, and that's just looking at the car from the outside and assuming that you are driving it and no lower LODs are showing.
Third and 4th Image is from the modeled interior and the stuff outside of it:
TLDR: The models in GT Sport are going to be ported to GT7, which is totally fine because they look fantastic anyways. 500k polygons is pretty standard as of right now. Assetto Corsa's cars are about 300k when they came out.
If you want to take a look at other models from GT Sport just go here and throw these models into blender:
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- NW London
Brilliant answer, thanks!
Now a really dumb question: it's something that bugs the part of my brain I hate 😃 but here goes:
Are the cars modeled only on the outside/ what's visible?
Ok now the dumb question is out there. I know CGI is completely different but I remember seeing a documentary on Pixar and how they model things invisible to the human eye.
Now.. For example let's say the engine isn't modelled of course, but that affects the car dynamics, the weight at different points on the car.
I'm rambling now but..I think about this stuff.
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- LilBigHulk
For those curious why polygons increase isn’t the big thing it used to be. I think of It like this.
A computer only has so much graphical power.
PlayStation 1 used 300 polygons for a car. The designers had to specifically choose which main areas of of the car to put each polygon in order to give the most convincing shape and look of the car. As 300 is barely anything.
PS2 used 10x the amount of PS1 at 3,000 polygons per car. Enough to give a convincing shape and look of each model.
PS3 used 140x the amount used on PS2 with 500,000 and already the cars do not look 140x better than the PS2 computed cars.
Yet it still required a MASSIVE leap in computer power in The PS3 to produce those cars.
So instead of the PS5 rendering cars that have millions of polygons Which would cost a big percentage of its computer power, developers have invested in improving effects like lighting and shading to improve the overall look of the cars.
Again, the effects used on the cars in GT7 are massively costing on the PS4/5 power. But the overall look and quality of the car is better spent there than if they instead used the same power for just a big polygon upgrade.
A computer only has so much graphical power.
PlayStation 1 used 300 polygons for a car. The designers had to specifically choose which main areas of of the car to put each polygon in order to give the most convincing shape and look of the car. As 300 is barely anything.
PS2 used 10x the amount of PS1 at 3,000 polygons per car. Enough to give a convincing shape and look of each model.
PS3 used 140x the amount used on PS2 with 500,000 and already the cars do not look 140x better than the PS2 computed cars.
Yet it still required a MASSIVE leap in computer power in The PS3 to produce those cars.
So instead of the PS5 rendering cars that have millions of polygons Which would cost a big percentage of its computer power, developers have invested in improving effects like lighting and shading to improve the overall look of the cars.
Again, the effects used on the cars in GT7 are massively costing on the PS4/5 power. But the overall look and quality of the car is better spent there than if they instead used the same power for just a big polygon upgrade.
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"Are the cars modeled only on the outside/ what's visible?"
They laser scan their models and i am pretty sure that other developers do that too. They can choose what to model and what not to model. Its up to them how they want to execute on capturing the model. I don't think all of the cars in GT Sport have an engine model, unless the car's engine is visible through a window. It might be different in GT7 but we dont know yet.
"Now.. For example let's say the engine isn't modelled of course, but that affects the car dynamics, the weight at different points on the car."
That's overthinking it. The model does not have a weight by itself. It's just visually how it looks. The data of the car however like the weight, is defined somewhere in code and thats why something weighs like something. Like I can make a PT Curiser have a same weight as a apple no matter what I do with the model itself. They are simply unrelated to each other, visually and the performance of it.
