Gran Turismo HD Demo at E3

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Wolfe2x7
Unless Gran Turismo's crash physics are improved (I'm not talking about damage, just the way cars bounce/slide off of each other), there won't be any pitting or spinning out from contact. Just a lot of bumping, etc.
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GT4 has no crash physics to speak of, just grip loss when you impact another vehicle, but that seems to happens only on standard tires. They need to get better tire physics for all tires after the standard sets of tires.

If GT5 has damage and no crash physics then something will definately be wrong, and I won't be playing that game.

matherto
well, the graphics although based on GT4 obviously, looked just that little bit sharper, due to the HD, so if they can take advantage of the HD and go for some truly next-gen graphics approaching anything like as good as PGR3 (and that's hard to say, cause I hate the 360) then they'll have done good.
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Well considering the models from TGS video, I have no reservations stating that GT5's visuals will definately match PGR3's easily, but it's not the graphics I'm worried about, it's the interaction, I want GT to push the envelope on a console, with GTR coming to 360, PD needs to make sure the GT5, lets the developers of GTR know that PD can make a realistic driving game that encompasses a world that they haven't/can't dabble in. That would make a statement that no one driving game developer can easily debunk.
 
Slight correction, any time you see the word crash physics mentioned, it's nothing but a fancy phrase batted about. Crash physics are a by product of collision detection or colission physics, and in some cases they are tied in with model alteration and/or deformation, and/or alterations to the car's file that dictates how that car should drive and perform. They are however, all seperate things. GT4 has the first and last things, how good thoes are is questionable, but they are there, when you hit aother ca or wall, you don't pass through it like it's not there, you stop and bounce a little bit away, that's collision physics, not very good one's granted, but they're there all the same. also the car's in GT4 alter their performance in three way's, one engine wear, two chassis wear and three, the oil getting dirtier. These don't really apply to a crash situtation, but the principals of the performance being altered are the same. The deformable car models where you'd see visible damage on screen are not present in GT4 as you all know. but a deforamble car model is not crash physics, crash pysics is simply a by product of the collsion physics (however deep they may be for any given game) sometimes tied in with other things and a fancy phrase for developers to throw around.
 
live4speed
Slight correction, any time you see the word crash physics mentioned, it's nothing but a fancy phrase batted about. Crash physics are a by product of collision detection or colission physics, and in some cases they are tied in with model alteration and/or deformation, and/or alterations to the car's file that dictates how that car should drive and perform. They are however, all seperate things. GT4 has the first and last things, how good thoes are is questionable, but they are there, when you hit aother ca or wall, you don't pass through it like it's not there, you stop and bounce a little bit away, that's collision physics, not very good one's granted, but they're there all the same. also the car's in GT4 alter their performance in three way's, one engine wear, two chassis wear and three, the oil getting dirtier. These don't really apply to a crash situtation, but the principals of the performance being altered are the same. The deformable car models where you'd see visible damage on screen are not present in GT4 as you all know. but a deforamble car model is not crash physics, crash pysics is simply a by product of the collsion physics (however deep they may be for any given game) sometimes tied in with other things and a fancy phrase for developers to throw around.
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Indeed, well put. GT4 does a pretty horrendous job at impacting vehicles, only on standard tires it seems to affect the AI, because the tire grip isn't at ungodly levels.
 
live4speed
Slight correction, any time you see the word crash physics mentioned, it's nothing but a fancy phrase batted about. Crash physics are a by product of collision detection or colission physics, and in some cases they are tied in with model alteration and/or deformation, and/or alterations to the car's file that dictates how that car should drive and perform. They are however, all seperate things. GT4 has the first and last things, how good thoes are is questionable, but they are there, when you hit aother ca or wall, you don't pass through it like it's not there, you stop and bounce a little bit away, that's collision physics, not very good one's granted, but they're there all the same. also the car's in GT4 alter their performance in three way's, one engine wear, two chassis wear and three, the oil getting dirtier. These don't really apply to a crash situtation, but the principals of the performance being altered are the same. The deformable car models where you'd see visible damage on screen are not present in GT4 as you all know. but a deforamble car model is not crash physics, crash pysics is simply a by product of the collsion physics (however deep they may be for any given game) sometimes tied in with other things and a fancy phrase for developers to throw around.
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I see it differently -- to me, "collision physics" and "crash physics" are interchangable synonyms. "Visual damage" and "car damage" (damage to suspension/engine/etc.) are separate things. I hope that clarifies what I meant. ;)
 
But a collision isn't always a crash, for example if the game had no colission physics at all, you'd just drop through the road at the start of the race, the fact that your car is in most of the time in contact with or colliding with the road isn't the car crashing into the road, but that all comes under the collision physics.
 
Man that's so confusing:dunce: but I think I get it. Good explanation!👍
 
live4speed
But a collision isn't always a crash, for example if the game had no colission physics at all, you'd just drop through the road at the start of the race, the fact that your car is in most of the time in contact with or colliding with the road isn't the car crashing into the road, but that all comes under the collision physics.
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But if there are flaws in the way a car crashes or collides with another car or a wall, then those flaws are present in both the "crash physics" and "collision physics," regardless of which term you wish to use when referring to the subject. Also, in GT4, the collision physics that govern the bottom of the car and its relation to the ground are seperate from the collision physics that govern the sides of the car and their relation to walls and other objects -- proof of this is evident when you consider the fact that GT4 will not allow any car to flip over, roll over, or even roll onto its side. Furthermore, a truly competent racing game would simulate a car's contact with the ground by the contact patches of the four tires, rather than treating the entire car as a single "object" that slides along the ground and collides with it when landing from jumps.

In any case, I'm not a programmer, nor was I aware that I was discussing this aspect of GT4 in a programming forum. My usage of the terms "crash physics" and "collision physics" is colloquial, and I'm not exactly sure why you're debating that fact.
 
There's nothing wrong with using the term crash physics, I'm not debating the fact that there is, just stating the fact that crash physics is nothing more than a fancy name for people to use, regardin different sides of the car being governed by different physics, not true it's all the same physics engine at work the only difference is the properties given to the different parts and objects like the car's wheels and to the car's body and the road and grass etc. The fact that car's won't flip is simply a tag in the code that prevents a car from tilting over a certain angle. Like I said, nothing wrong with using the phrase, all I was saying is that it's nothing more than a fancy word for something else because the games collision engine covers the lot. Life is full of fancy phrases like that.
 
After some time just reading the posts on this site and never registering or logging in, this is my first post.
I agree with alot of what Wolfe,SavageEvil and live4speed have said.
To be honest and blunt the GT series has been an ongoing downhill series as what some have said in this topic about GT being it's own created monster.
I hated GT3,period.
After GT2 and then ending up with the tedious borefest that was GT3, it was like being given a Lamborghinni with all the internals removed.
Then after FOUR years and we get a very good looking GT4 or GTbore as i call it.
It's funny how liveforspeed the PC game is rumored to be only three guys making it but t's looked at as the best SIM racer out there, but PD has what 80+ and they can't even get the handling/physics accurate, much less an A.I. or even decent collision detection/crash physics.
I ended up getting GT4 from my woman as a christmas gift, however had i known i would have told her to not bother.
I honestly don't think PD is good enough to give us what we want.
Then seeing the nonimpressive E3 vid, gee how "nice".
Instead of that they should have had a vid showing an attempt at a damage system with a car colliding the outside wall then rolling back into the track and having the A.I. cars swerve to miss it.
I would much prefered to see that than just more "pretty graphics" thrown at me to try to distract me from noticing a lack of a proper update to the game's serie's.
It's past time PD stepped up to deliver more than just a graphical update.
 
live4speed
There's nothing wrong with using the term crash physics, I'm not debating the fact that there is, just stating the fact that crash physics is nothing more than a fancy name for people to use, regardin different sides of the car being governed by different physics, not true it's all the same physics engine at work the only difference is the properties given to the different parts and objects like the car's wheels and to the car's body and the road and grass etc. The fact that car's won't flip is simply a tag in the code that prevents a car from tilting over a certain angle. Like I said, nothing wrong with using the phrase, all I was saying is that it's nothing more than a fancy word for something else because the games collision engine covers the lot. Life is full of fancy phrases like that.
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A game can have a single physics engine and apply different physics to different parts of a car, or different objects. My point is that the car's behavior regarding contact with the ground is different from the behavior regarding contact with cars or walls -- as you said, different properties are applied. And yes, the no-flipping is a simple code that stops the tilt at a certain angle, I was referring to the reason why they did that -- GT4's collision physics aren't complex enough to deal with the physics of a rollover, and neither are Enthusia's.

In any case, we're mostly dealing with semantics, here. :lol:

Ben Aracin
It's funny how liveforspeed the PC game is rumored to be only three guys making it but t's looked at as the best SIM racer out there, but PD has what 80+ and they can't even get the handling/physics accurate, much less an A.I. or even decent collision detection/crash physics.
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That's no rumor. ;)

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L to R: Victor Van Vlaardingen, musician and webmaster; Scawen Roberts, programmer; Eric Bailey, 2D/3D artist.

Scawen and Eric are ex-Lionhead-Studios-employees.
 
SavageEvil
Well considering the models from TGS video, I have no reservations stating that GT5's visuals will definately match PGR3's easily, but it's not the graphics I'm worried about, it's the interaction, I want GT to push the envelope on a console, with GTR coming to 360, PD needs to make sure the GT5, lets the developers of GTR know that PD can make a realistic driving game that encompasses a world that they haven't/can't dabble in. That would make a statement that no one driving game developer can easily debunk.
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I'm with you on that, Kazanori and his team really need to go all out on this next game, they need to get the physics spot on, so that even if they don't have damage modelling, the crashes and general collisions will actually be realistic. That and having more cars, more tracks and more options......
 
The problem with physics on a console as opposed to a PC is the harware, consoles don't upgrade ith more ram more CUP power etc, after 5 yers, the PS2 couldn't compete technically with a mid range PC let a lone a high end one. I will say, PD did a good job physics wise with the PS2 to work with, but with regards to GT4 being boring, it really is imo. GT2 had me hooked, I was playing it literally years after, GT4 has just lost me in the least time any GT game has. PD may well step up given the new hardware, I hope they deliver, GT4 was too little too late, it didn't move the series forward but it did leave us with a clumsy mess of a game where you have very little structure and just walk away from it after a while, I would have preferred PD to have given us GT3's graphics more more things to move the series forward rather than the incredibly nice graphics GT4 has, but very little enjoyment the game provides. Well maybe that's just a select few, but GT frustrates me because it has so much promise but it's being worked on in the wrong area's or rather it has been to date.

Wolfe2x7
I was referring to the reason why they did that -- GT4's collision physics aren't complex enough to deal with the physics of a rollover, and neither are Enthusia's.
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I missed your point sorry :lol:, yeah I agree with that.
 
hmmm I keep thinking about what someone said about the class racing. naturally if that is indeed something to be in GT5, would't they naturally have to have more cars?
 
So is this going to have online play?
 
Mr Deap
Yeah & I bet there will be a lot of boring drifter rooms.💡
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Well, drifting rooms aren't always boring in Live for Speed...I'm sure the same can apply for Gran Turismo. It just depends on how many people there are, and how good they are. :sly:
 
Wolfe2x7
Well, drifting rooms aren't always boring in Live for Speed...I'm sure the same can apply for Gran Turismo. It just depends on how many people there are, and how good they are. :sly:
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Still, when there's like 90% of them that are drfting rooms & 10% of them as races.(Not to mention that there's 7% as drag racing & 1% involved in crashing)

Oh yeah, it's fun...💡
 
Mr Deap
Still, when there's like 90% of them that are drfting rooms & 10% of them as races.(Not to mention that there's 7% as drag racing & 1% involved in crashing)

Oh yeah, it's fun...💡
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BTW, I hardly find players at my level from my experience...
 
Hmm. That's odd -- every time I go online in Live for Speed, there's only one, maybe two drift servers. The rest are racing servers, with the vast majority of those racing servers being limited to one of the open-wheeled racecars, or the GTR cars. Then there's an oval server or two, and a drag server or two.
 
Wolfe2x7
Hmm. That's odd -- every time I go online in Live for Speed, there's only one, maybe two drift servers. The rest are racing servers, with the vast majority of those racing servers being limited to one of the open-wheeled racecars, or the GTR cars. Then there's an oval server or two, and a drag server or two.
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That's because those games are not GT4. Just make an overall poll & you'll see a bad result.

Most people who play GT4 do some tune Up, try to reach the highest speed, do some picture of the game or drifting. You have to remember that Gran Turismo is very popular & only a few % actually like to race.
 
Mr Deap
That's because those games are not GT4. Just make an overall poll & you'll see a bad result.

Most people who play GT4 do some tune Up, try to reach the highest speed, do some picture of the game or drifting. You have to remember that Gran Turismo is very popular & only a few % actually like to race.
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OH! I thought you were referring to Live for Speed when you wrote this:

Mr Deap
Still, when there's like 90% of them that are drfting rooms & 10% of them as races.(Not to mention that there's 7% as drag racing & 1% involved in crashing)

Oh yeah, it's fun...💡
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Now it makes sense. :)
 
Mr Deap
You have to remember that Gran Turismo is very popular & only a few % actually like to race.
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Where on earth do you get that? The Photomode Gallery?

Here on the boards, the overwhelming number of threads deal with racing. Among my friends I have one drift freak, and we get bored watching him pretty quick.
 
Mr Deap
Most people who play GT4 do some tune Up, try to reach the highest speed, do some picture of the game or drifting. You have to remember that Gran Turismo is very popular & only a few % actually like to race.
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Oh Yes. Mainly me that built my own cockpit just for tuning and taking pictures. :dunce:
 
I dont know if anyone else noticed it but at in the course selection screenshot i think it looked like it had the old nurburgring sudschliefe at the bottom of the nordschliefe

you have to look really really really close

Its probably just me but i thought i wanted see if anyone else noticed it
 
the Interceptor


I see no Südschleife there. :dunce:
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He's talking about the wireframe, the Interceptor. ;)

Still, that doesn't even begin to confirm the presence of the Südschleife in the game. :indiff:
 
me neither.... but i would actually really love to drive there and have the 24h nordschleifen race including the sudschleife. like in real....and then plys 20 or more cars...weather change...lightning change...time change....would be amazing!!

anway, in gt4 in saw a pic where a guy was racing with the BMW 320i Touring car on the sudschleife...he somehow broke through the barrier...anybody how to work that out??
 
I only see the GP course there, and you can see that it was modeled loosely in GT4 already.

Regards
the Interceptor
 
o ok must have been me then

but it would be cool though

i cant see the gp course though on the pic i have which is the same as the ones posted above
 
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