Grand Canyon 2004 debate!!!!!!

  • Thread starter Thread starter cobragt
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this sure is tons of speculation based Hearsay. parts of the canyon are 3d they move and change perspective in the game. After reading the articles and sorting through this therad and the "detail thread", i just got more confused. Whats missing is FACTS. just wait unitl the game comes out and 2d/3d questions wont be questions anymore.

if anyone has the FACTS (not based on articles or my friend who's a 3d programmer) please put this to rest.
 
AHHHHHHHHH! Who the **** cares if the background in a racing game is 3 dimensional or 2 dimensional? It is so unimportant, I can't believe that I'm reading about it.

I suppose technically it can't be 3D since you are viewing it on a 2 dimensional plane. It may appear 3 dimensional, but it reality it can only have 2 dimensions.

I wonder if the driver inside the cars is white or black. I wonder how many polygons it takes to make him. When we know the answers to these difficult problems? I can only hope soon so we won't have to listen to cobragt's intelligent analysis of camera angles and polygons.

:dunce:
 
:lol: hmmm well everyone has there own opinion, true the backgrounds look amazing, well from screen shots anyways since I dont have GT4P I dont really know, but yet it does look amazing, Even if it was 3D its not like we could fly around the canyon or fall off the cliff and go to the bottom of the canyon on a donkey, the most importnant thing is the AI, the car and the track your driving on, on the atari do you think people cared about how the background looked, heck no people only raced for the fun of it and they didnt care about what the background looked like, like I said its amazing work but lets just sit back and enjoy the view in its 2d/3d form and not care about anything else...
 
You guys always make me laugh. Well, while you're busy debating on backgrounds in a racing game you've never played, I'll be sitting here...in my cosy chair...with the best racing game since GT3...


NFS: Underground

I know, eh? Weird.

Bedhead
 
Originally posted by Bedhead
You guys always make me laugh. Well, while you're busy debating on backgrounds in a racing game you've never played, I'll be sitting here...in my cosy chair...with the best racing game since GT3...


NFS: Underground

I know, eh? Weird.

Bedhead
Click to expand...

Best racing game since GT3...hmmm mguess so...but GT3 is still better :)
 
I guess to the forum starter wanted a forum where people could offer objectional comments (and based on the replies, maybe not!), but in my view, it is an interesting point.

An example I will provide is Tokyo R246, obviously my favorite track in GT3, I kind of experimented how far back the models went. While viewing a replay, I noted how many buildings were in the background on the front stretch. I looked to my left, and I noticed all sorts of buildings in the background. Those backround buildings behind the ones on the front stretch were 3D for doggone sure. I'm sure if you took the R246 route in real life in Tokyo, the detail in the game is the same as you might see in real life. Whether or not there aren't several other buildings in real life there compared to GT3 you'll have to find out for yourself. Either that or hope someone on the GTPlanet forum is from Tokyo, Japan and drove around that part of town before.

And that brings me to the Grand Canyon, which is possibly one of the more spectacular-looking tracks in GT4. I have two answers, one you'll have to think about yourself. The first response would be that the Grand Canyon is 2D, while spectacular as it is. The other response is that the Grand Canyon view is 3D, testament to the impressive quality of the environment being raced in.

To me, and this may be a foolish answer, the Grand Canyon view has to be a 2D view, and I'll tell you why I think so. Typically, if a lot of polygons are being used in making a three-dimensional background, you'll see what we call "add-in" in gaming. This is where you'll see polygons get added in as the player progresses forward. A game where this ISN'T that apparent is in Duke Nukem 3D for the PC. And I know this because I made levels in the game. When I designed a level, there may be some darkness when looking further down. However, put everything at full brightness, you can see down the level very well. With the Grand Canyon, however, I don't sense any use of add-in with the Canyon view. Unless you think that the view all the way to the bottom of the canyon will be used in replays, then maybe I'm wrong. But, it's 2D for me.
 
I just wanted to flow with the topic and make a suggestable answer to this topic.

I think the topic should have been changed to "Is the Grand Canyon view 2D or 3D?". To say it's a debate means that it's a contestable issue that usually requires expert analysis and various amounts of third-party data to make decision making more precise in determining a final judgment. A debate would be "Do we really NEED to have Paris Hilton e-mails in our E-mail boxes?". Another debate would be "Do we need to regulate Chat Rooms to force less arguments and fights?". But this topic is more of a question where proof isn't provided, so answering it is a matter of speculation and not the collection of data.

So, I think there is no such thing as a "stupid question," only as long as it has an answer without causing embarassment or harm to another person. Question? Yes. Debate? No. Answerable? Of course.
 
Well I didn't want to reply to this thread again...but I will anyway.

Dearest Askia

I'll assume your 2d sky post is you trying to be be sarcastic. Well done. Even though sky in all games is 2d, it was nice to see you try and handle the complexities of sarcasm. Have another wooden spoon, must be building quite a collection of em now.

BTW any luck in finding the post where I say PGR2 is better then GT4, I'd love to see it (posts where I say PGR2 looks better means ONLY graphics wise btw, so sorry, they don't count). Good luck and happy hunting!!

Your friend and posting buddy, code_kev

NFS U best racing game since GT3...oh dear. Tis a sad day when EA can release crap like that and actually make money. Tis a sadder day when people say stuff like "NFS U is the best racing game since GT3". Any game that lets you stick neons on a car is wrong in my book :)

Racing games better then NFS U (in my opinion anyway)

GT C, PGR2, MOTOGP2, WRC 2 (aint played 3), rallisport, burnout2, mtm3, sega gt, hell even CM4 is better.

TBH decent racing games have been abit...dry as of late, but this year looks damn sweet with GT4, rallisport2, sega gt online and richard burns :). Should be cool :)
 
Grand Canyon is an 3D course (naturally cause it's an "fake" 3D game, as all games today are:)) with hi-resoultion 2D images mapped onto 3D structure of enviroment.

The enviroment itself is partly 2D, partly 3D: 2D in distant parts of env, and 3D on the track itself.

Even in the most spectacular views in replay (for example: 180 degree turn in the middle section), the far part of the canyon is an 2D hi-res image mapped onto rounded 3D structure of enviroment. The 3D looks are achieved by using wide-lens camera which distort the perspective while zooming in and out, making the eyes see the enviroment as 3D.

So, Grand Canyon - and all the other tracks in fact - are partly 2D and partly 3D.

And this thread is very uselles, IMHO, but don't care about mine oppinion.
 
Originally posted by LaBounti
MY vote is its 3d .. I noticed flat sharp edges.


edit:ITs not a vote it is 3D. Looking at a picture you can see the edges of the polygons.
Click to expand...
Indeed.
 
I don't understand this discussion either. I have GT4 Prologue and it is very clear that the sky is a 2D bitmap, and so are parts of the scenery in the far distance. However, almost everything else, and certainly everything within say 1-2km of the track, is 3D. When you drive there can be little doubt about this because you see everything in and across the ravine scale and tilt. You should easily be able to have guessed this from the different screenshots too.

There are more things 3D in this game than you think at first too. For instance many of the more distant mountains are 3D at Fuji Speedway. When you drive on the long straight you can see them grow slowly and tilt slightly while you drive towards them. Similarly, a bunch of the far off mountains in Grand Canyon are also still 3D objects. By the way, if I remember correctly Yamauchi discussed very early on when talking about how the tracks were designed - I think this was in an interview published in a car magazine.
 
Arwin, you just ended the debate with those facts. amar212 said exactly what I was saying. but in more words.

final note. If it were 2d then were is all the polygon power going. The rest of the track isnt high on objects or landscape. Look at New York. Objects and polygons everywhere including 6 cars on track. GC, pretty much nothing with only 1 car seen so far if 2d was the case.
 
This is the most retarded argument I've ever seen. The video of the GC that I have seen is absolutely brilliant. I could completely care less how they make it look spectacular! If they manipulated photos to look as real as it does in the game, what diffrence does it make? It still looks fantastic. I really don't know how much of it is 3D and I really don't care. It looks incredible and that is all that really matters.
 
True, aslong as it looks good who cares how they made it, But dont forget debates are debates and people have his or hers own opinion, The reason for threads and posts are really to voice your opinion on the subject of matter, but by seeing how people dont care anymore, seeing how this thread really didnt stick to subject, but yea it looks great and thank god it looks the way it does and not crappy like most games or past games, When the game comes out you'll then have plenty of time to think weather it is 3D or not, but until then just enjoy the game as it is and not so technical but on the fun factor, its only a game nothing more... (well besides a PD masterpiece) :)
 
As long as it plays brillianntly, has lots and lots of cars, I couldn't give a crap. It's not like I'll actually be looking at the canyon while racing!
 
Who the love of god please close this useless thread already. . .
 
Originally posted by code_kev
Well I didn't want to reply to this thread again...but I will anyway.

Dearest Askia

I'll assume your 2d sky post is you trying to be be sarcastic. Well done. Even though sky in all games is 2d, it was nice to see you try and handle the complexities of sarcasm. Have another wooden spoon, must be building quite a collection of em now.

BTW any luck in finding the post where I say PGR2 is better then GT4, I'd love to see it (posts where I say PGR2 looks better means ONLY graphics wise btw, so sorry, they don't count). Good luck and happy hunting!!

Your friend and posting buddy, code_kev

NFS U best racing game since GT3...oh dear. Tis a sad day when EA can release crap like that and actually make money. Tis a sadder day when people say stuff like "NFS U is the best racing game since GT3". Any game that lets you stick neons on a car is wrong in my book :)

Racing games better then NFS U (in my opinion anyway)

GT C, PGR2, MOTOGP2, WRC 2 (aint played 3), rallisport, burnout2, mtm3, sega gt, hell even CM4 is better.

TBH decent racing games have been abit...dry as of late, but this year looks damn sweet with GT4, rallisport2, sega gt online and richard burns :). Should be cool :)
Click to expand...

IMO Toca Race Driver is sehr gut as well 👍 . If you've got a racing wheel, I recommend you rush out and buy it ;) .

Edit: also code, it's been nagging me, what's the car in your tar? Not a Ferrari 250 GTO is it?
 
Damn forgot about toca! Toca RD is a good game too! TR2 sounds pretty good too, I hope I can do lorrys vs car racing!

The car in my sig is a ferrari 250 gto after I bashed it up :) yup hehe
 
Originally posted by code_kev
Well I didn't want to reply to this thread again...but I will anyway.

Dearest Askia

I'll assume your 2d sky post is you trying to be be sarcastic. Well done. Even though sky in all games is 2d, it was nice to see you try and handle the complexities of sarcasm. Have another wooden spoon, must be building quite a collection of em now.

BTW any luck in finding the post where I say PGR2 is better then GT4, I'd love to see it (posts where I say PGR2 looks better means ONLY graphics wise btw, so sorry, they don't count). Good luck and happy hunting!!

Your friend and posting buddy, code_kev

NFS U best racing game since GT3...oh dear. Tis a sad day when EA can release crap like that and actually make money. Tis a sadder day when people say stuff like "NFS U is the best racing game since GT3". Any game that lets you stick neons on a car is wrong in my book :)

Racing games better then NFS U (in my opinion anyway)

GT C, PGR2, MOTOGP2, WRC 2 (aint played 3), rallisport, burnout2, mtm3, sega gt, hell even CM4 is better.

TBH decent racing games have been abit...dry as of late, but this year looks damn sweet with GT4, rallisport2, sega gt online and richard burns :). Should be cool :)
Click to expand...

no sarcasm, intened, i say it like it is.
 
i wasnt trying to be sarcastic. Instead of saying "have a wodden spoon" you should shut the hell up. And............" where I say PGR2 looks better means ONLY graphics wise btw, so sorry, they don't count). Good luck and happy hunting!!" i found many posts saying exactly that. i posted a link that showed you in that deleted thread
 
I still wanna see this post you say I made where I said that PGR2 was a better playing game then GT4.

And in that deleted thread I know I posted nothing that said that, so don't BS me askia. Have ANOTHER WOODEN SPOON WOOOO!!!

Bit convienient that it's in the deleted thread eh...hmm wierd that!

All the posts you find are posts where I either tell cobra he's talking crap, or say the PS2 isn't THAT powerful.

:rolleyes:

ofc you were being sarcastic, why else would you "emulate" the format of a piccy I did for an old post, and by CHANCE it was a PGR2 piccy that you used! Hmmm I wonder!

*goes back to final fantasy 9*
 
Code always covers his tracks by saying something like, "PGR2 is so great, I love PGR2, It is so cool to be able to drive ferraris on the nurb and have crash damage.......oh and GT4 is gonna be great too." He just doesn't want to be caught saying that he thinks PGR2 is a better game than GT on a GT forum. But the sheer number of times he refers to PGR2 (and the sly little comments such as "ahh, I love driving ferraris on PGR2" or "check out this screenie of PGR2") prove that all he really wants to do is pick fights with people who don't buy into his PGR2 BS. I've said it before and I'll say it again: Gran Turismo is by far the greatest racing series on any platform ever. That is not PD prpaghanda, it is a fact. PGR2 is really good (I've played it. It is alot of fun and the graphics are spectacular), but GT is the best. Period.
 
Ahh but majin, I agree with your GT comments. BUT I can enjoy other games too, what's your problem with that? So I say PGR2 is brilliant, does that make GT games any less good? No. And I don't say check out these screenies, only time I posted PGR2 screenies (apart from the enzo piss take) was in the old flame wars where cobra was saying crap about photo realism, and how he thinks every console not called "playstation 2" sucks, the PS2 being a super computer and PGR2 looking like a cartoon lol. AND YOU STILL HAVNT GIVEN ME THIS LINK I ASK FOR!!!

oh and majin it IS cool to be able to drive ferraris on the nurb and have crash damage.

He just doesn't want to be caught saying that he thinks PGR2 is a better game than GT on a GT forum
Click to expand...

majin, I don't say PGR2 is better because I think GT4 will fricking kick the crap out of PGR2!!! I'm not a fan boy majin, I enjoy both my consoles, I just don't pretend that the ps2 or xbox is better then it really, and I don't kiss PD ass like some people... I no longer wish to argue with you as it's disturbing my final fantasy 9 playing, peace. But just admit to making up the stuff about me saying PGR2 is a better game.:rolleyes:
 
I never said you SAID PGR2 was better than GT4.......I said you THINK PGR2 is better, but are afraid to admit it on a GT forum. Alas, I no longer wish to argue with you either. PGR2 is a great game and so will GT4 be. End of discussion.
 
deleted by me

I'm glad.

Btw I DO think PGR2 is better then GT3, but Gt4 will own it. That's my op.
 
this si cool weather or not the canyon is 2d or 3d
 

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You win my award for posting the fakest looking screenie ever!
 
i dunt care wat f@#ing award u be giving its a nice car and pic. i neva said it was a **screenie**
 
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