Grid Autosport (General Discussion)

[Wolfe]

To be completely honest, Codemasters could at least try a little bit harder on their physics, rather than continuing on with the same style of primitive float-and-pivot modelling they've been using since the PS1/PS2 days. It's functional enough, but it limits the appeal. There's a lack of feedback or a sense of how the rubber meets the road surface, things you can find in other, less serious arcade racers. The steering animation in cockpit view reflects how there's really no clue what's going on at the front wheels.

Hopefully "authentic" means they'll put together something more solid and communicative...but they made similar comments about Dirt 3, so I remain unconvinced.

 

[Speedster911]

It is stupid if it's done just to collect a paycheque and it has no real meaning and sometimes that's the case. But the quote I gave gives us something to measure the results against. It's not supposed to be a hardcore sim nor a jokey arcade game but something in the middle. Those are the expectations they must fulfill or risk losing all credibility. We'll see how close they come to their own mark soon enough.

In the middle again you say? Going back to their TOCA roots my ass then! I'll say it again, judging from the gameplay vids, it didn't feel any less of an arcade title than GRID II. They call it authentic, as they've thrown in different motorsport disciples this time around. Chances are the physics engine is going to be the same more or less, which more than likely means little consequences for bad driving.

Chris Harris "helped" with Grid 2. The whole journalist racing drivers car figures helping and giving input to titles with a broad no sim appeal is stupid in my opinion.

It is rather stupid. From a marketing standpoint, it sells, doesn't it?

They can't compete with other titles in the hardcore simulation market, and they know it (though ironically, I remember PlayStation Magazine deducting marks from CMR2.0 because GT2 had wider rally courses, even though CMR2.0 was much more of a rally stimulator). But at the same time, there is no real market for a pure arcade experience, which they proved with DIRT SHOWDOWN. Ever since the rise of GRAN TURISMO and FORZA as the dedicated racing simulators, Codemasters have emphasised accessibility over technical depth. That has drawn criticism, but they are a small developer, and they know that the hardcore simulator market only has limited appeal. Just look at this year's Formula 1 cars as a perfect example - they are extremely difficult to drive. Codemasters could probably accurately replicate that if they wanted to, but all they would do is ostracise casual fans. I'm a huge fan of Formula 1, but when I play games, I just want to jump straight in and race. I don't want to spend two hours adjusting my spring settings by a few millimeters to pick up a tenth of a second so that I can qualify for the race. That sounds like an absolute chore.

Codemasters have done nothing wrong by choosing accessibility as their core principal. If you want someone to blame, then look further than the people who will not be satisfied by anything less than a hardcore simulator, and then criticise Codemasters for not making a hardcore simulator, even though they never promised one.

* Actually they can compete with other sims, and quite effectively. However they're not ready to give up their fan base of casual/fun and accessible racing games.

* I was a fan of F1 sims too, and I don't need to spend two hours adjusting settings to shave off a few tenths of a second.. perhaps just a few mins! And it's worth it. Codies F1 game was dreadful. The last good F1 game was GP Legends or F1 2000, both on the PC. Even F1 97 or 98 I think, on the PS1 was a darn good effort at the time.

* Tuning in a sim is not a chore, and if you want to bypass it, you very conveniently can.

* Codies prolly won't make a hardcore sim as long as Forza and GT are in the lead. Even if they weren't, I just don't think they're ready to sacrifice the casual racing fans they've gained over the years.

To be completely honest, Codemasters could at least try a little bit harder on their physics, rather than continuing on with the same style of primitive float-and-pivot modelling they've been using since the PS1/PS2 days. It's functional enough, but it limits the appeal. There's a lack of feedback or a sense of how the rubber meets the road surface, things you can find in other, less serious arcade racers. The steering animation in cockpit view reflects how there's really no clue what's going on at the front wheels.

Hopefully "authentic" means they'll put together something more solid and communicative...but they made similar comments about Dirt 3, so I remain unconvinced.

They can, but they won't. They're passionate about cars, yes... racing, yes.... accuracy in realism and physics? I doubt it. The float and pivot modelling is a good example.. which is even present in Shift 2. IMO, the only sims or "serious driving games" if you will, on consoles that have been able to properly replicate the whole rubber meets tarmac affair, is GT and Forza.

Yeah, steering animation... it's about damn time devs start focusing on getting that right. It's a joke on console sims and driving games at the moment.

I was very excited too reading that preview article with the shots... until I saw the gameplay vids and how the cars were reacting being thrown around the track. Oh no.. I said... it's more of the same... with more variety and stuff to do.

 

[Awong124]

To be completely honest, Codemasters could at least try a little bit harder on their physics, rather than continuing on with the same style of primitive float-and-pivot modelling they've been using since the PS1/PS2 days. It's functional enough, but it limits the appeal. There's a lack of feedback or a sense of how the rubber meets the road surface, things you can find in other, less serious arcade racers. The steering animation in cockpit view reflects how there's really no clue what's going on at the front wheels.

Hopefully "authentic" means they'll put together something more solid and communicative...but they made similar comments about Dirt 3, so I remain unconvinced.

Their F1 games actually don't feel like that. So if Grid Autosport will use a tweaked version of the Ego engine used in the F1 games, hopefully it wouldn't feel floaty like Grid 1. Then again, it depends on what their intent is on the feel of the driving. Their F1 games show that they are capable of getting rid of the floatiness. I don't understand why they would intentionally make the handling floaty though. It doesn't make it any easier for casual gamers to play. It makes it harder in my opinion, and just makes it feel weird.

 

[doblocruiser]

F1 2014?

That's the sensible answer at least...

I would agree but I just stumbled upon this

http://forums.codemasters.com/discussion/comment/2906/#Comment_2906

 

[The Stig Farmer]

I would agree but I just stumbled upon this

http://forums.codemasters.com/discussion/comment/2906/#Comment_2906

Intradasting...

 

[Fryto]

Both GRID games had major flaws, hopefully they get it right in this third installment.

The first GRID had an awesome career mode structure, one of the best I've ever seen in a racing game.
Although I'm more a Sim kind of guy, I don't mind arcade racers as long as the driving experience is nice. And that's where GRID fell through for me. The physics itself were good for an arcade racer, but the control/handling model was a complete disaster. With a controller it felt twitchy all the time, and in nearly every car you didn't really feel in control of where your car was pointing to. I already had this issue with ToCa 3, but it seemed to have gotten worse in GRID. To make it even more embarrassing, the game wasn't set up to drive with a wheel. You could hook up a wheel and drive, but the experience is absolutely horrible.

GRID 2 was the opposite in many ways from its predecessor. The new career mode structure attempted to be innovative, but eventually came across as boring and quite a drag. The physics were made more arcadey, to the point that it was too much to enjoy it as a proper circuit racer and they ditched the cockpit view. The picture just didn't fit anymore and made the entire experience flaw. The positive thing though was that the controls itself felt better than in the first GRID to me. Also my DFGT worked fine, apart from the steering being restricted to 200°. That took some time to adjust to and it never felt quite right (obviously). But at least I could use a wheel and enjoy using it.

So now with GRID Autosport, I hope they get things right. But I'm highly sceptic, looking at what Codemasters produced during the last 5 years. If they truly listened to their community as they claimed, I'm hoping to see:

- GRID 1 style career mode (looks ok)
- Return to more arcade-sim physics (To be seen. They say so, but you never know what it will feel like)
- Return of cockpit view (check) , hopefully with proper detail.
- Smooth controls with both controller and wheel (remains to be seen, would be the first Codies game since IndyCar Series in 2003)
- 900° wheel rotation support (remains to be seen)
- no steering input lag (not really hopeful here looking at other titles from Codemasters)
- No pre-order bonus crap or Day 1 DLC that makes certain content useless in online multiplayer (e.g. Brands Hatch in GRID 2)
- Proper graphics on consoles. Nearly all the Codemasters games on PS3 look embarassingly bad imho

I'm really interested in what the reviews will say

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I'm curious as to how this new career mode is going to work. From the sounds of things, you could complete it while limiting yourself to a single discipline if you wanted to. That appeals to me, because the idea of tuner and street racing hold zero appeal to me.

 

[doblocruiser]

Additional info:

Five disciplines; Touring, Endurance, Open Wheel, Street and Tuner.

Each of these disciplines has multiple types of series under it. For example GT will come under Endurance, Time Attack under Tuner and so on....

The ones listed are just a small selection and the way the game works is by breaking the cars down into classes

Further Example:

Touring [Discipline]
Class 1 | Lower spec Touring Cars
Class 2
Class 3
Class 4
Class 5 | Higher spec Touring Cars


Street is just that, racing around street circuits.
Tuner contains Drift, Time Attack and Muscle cars.

BlogUpdate on assists:
http://blog.codemasters.com/grid/04/your-race-your-rules-your-options/

 

[DG_Silva]

But what are you earning bonuses on?

 

[Brend]

To be completely honest, Codemasters could at least try a little bit harder on their physics, rather than continuing on with the same style of primitive float-and-pivot modelling they've been using since the PS1/PS2 days. It's functional enough, but it limits the appeal. There's a lack of feedback or a sense of how the rubber meets the road surface, things you can find in other, less serious arcade racers. The steering animation in cockpit view reflects how there's really no clue what's going on at the front wheels.

Hopefully "authentic" means they'll put together something more solid and communicative...but they made similar comments about Dirt 3, so I remain unconvinced.

Aaaaaaand GRID2, which went in the other direction completely.

 

[PepeMickey]

I don't see the appeal for this to be honest, maybe casuals will have fun with this game but I think people with experience in sim racing are way past these pure arcade racers with real circuits and cars thrown into the mix.

 

[UkHardcore23]

Codemasters seem lost...They took out all the assists with Grid 2 claiming they had a perfect driving model for everyone...now every assist is back. They took out cockpit (not enough people use it apparently) now it's back in...The company needs leadership/direction!

 

[SpeedyishOlly]

I don't see the appeal for this to be honest, maybe casuals will have fun with this game but I think people with experience in sim racing are way past these pure arcade racers with real circuits and cars thrown into the mix.

Maybe people with sim racing experience who want to sit down on their sofa in comfort with their controller and have a mildly authentic/fun racing experience.

 

[Samus]

Additional info:



BlogUpdate on assists:
http://blog.codemasters.com/grid/04/your-race-your-rules-your-options/

Ugh, I wish they wouldn't force drifting on everyone.

 

[doblocruiser]

Umz certain assists cannot be used during drift-events if you are going to play that. Otherwise I missed the part where it would force someone to drift

 

[PepeMickey]

Maybe people with sim racing experience who want to sit down on their sofa in comfort with their controller and have a mildly authentic/fun racing experience.

But that's exactly what FM, GT and Shift are, they're simcades, if you really need to play a pure arcade game then you go with NFS or some other title like Driver San Francisco, there's no need for yet another sub-genre.

Unless this new Grid is more in depth or at least on par with Shift 2 then I don't see the point, the first 2 weren't and I know that the first one came before Shift but if someone takes your formula and makes it that much better then you try harder or you go home.

 

[SpeedyishOlly]

But that's exactly what FM, GT and Shift are, they're simcades, if you really need to play a pure arcade game then you go with NFS or some other title like Driver San Francisco, there's no need for yet another sub-genre.

Unless this new Grid is more in depth or at least on par with Shift 2 then I don't see the point, the first 2 weren't and I know that the first one came before Shift but if someone takes your formula and makes it that much better then you try harder or you go home.

Grid is just an arcade racer with an emphasis on authentic racing (well, the first one was.) I don't think they're trying to create another sub-genre with this, they're just trying to appeal to core Grid fans. Regardless of genre, the first grid was extremely fun, and I know a lot of people want more of that.

 

[Johnnypenso]

But that's exactly what FM, GT and Shift are, they're simcades, if you really need to play a pure arcade game then you go with NFS or some other title like Driver San Francisco, there's no need for yet another sub-genre.

Unless this new Grid is more in depth or at least on par with Shift 2 then I don't see the point, the first 2 weren't and I know that the first one came before Shift but if someone takes your formula and makes it that much better then you try harder or you go home.

If you don't see the appeal then don't buy it, but you can skip trying to figure out why other people might buy it, it's an individual choice. I'd buy it just because, I don't need a reason for it.

 

[Awong124]

The first GRID had an awesome career mode structure, one of the best I've ever seen in a racing game.
Although I'm more a Sim kind of guy, I don't mind arcade racers as long as the driving experience is nice. And that's where GRID fell through for me. The physics itself were good for an arcade racer, but the control/handling model was a complete disaster. With a controller it felt twitchy all the time, and in nearly every car you didn't really feel in control of where your car was pointing to. I already had this issue with ToCa 3, but it seemed to have gotten worse in GRID. To make it even more embarrassing, the game wasn't set up to drive with a wheel. You could hook up a wheel and drive, but the experience is absolutely horrible.

I just played a few hours of GRID again last night. When I first got the game I didn't have a wheel, so I guess it played decently with a controller. I have a G27 now and last night I spent about half an hour tweaking the settings. I got it to the point where it feels just decent, and that was the best I could do. I'm sure they've long since fixed the wheel issues and GRID Autosport would feel fine with a wheel, since my G27 feels great with their F1 games.

I'm curious as to how this new career mode is going to work. From the sounds of things, you could complete it while limiting yourself to a single discipline if you wanted to. That appeals to me, because the idea of tuner and street racing hold zero appeal to me.

I have absolutely no interest in the drift events. But there's supposedly a series called the GRID Legends Series or something that's going to be in the game where you have to have progressed through every discipline before being eligible to enter. That might be an optional series, but I'd probably still want to do it.

I don't see the appeal for this to be honest, maybe casuals will have fun with this game but I think people with experience in sim racing are way past these pure arcade racers with real circuits and cars thrown into the mix.

The appeal to me is that it would likely have very good AI competition for good competitive racing in career, and a good single player career mode. I don't like playing online, so that's very important for me. From experience playing their F1 games, I think Codemasters are the best at making competitive AI and an engaging single player campaign. Of course, I would prefer more sim-like physics, but if it's close enough I'd prefer the game to be fun than something with clinical precision but not very fun (like GT6).

 

[Speedster911]

Codemasters seem lost...They took out all the assists with Grid 2 claiming they had a perfect driving model for everyone...now every assist is back. The company need leadership/direction!

They sure do, or do they? I guess they don't care about the everyday fan, or the serious sim fan, just the CORE fan. They may not lose fans, but they're certainly not gaining more.

But that's exactly what FM, GT and Shift are, they're simcades, if you really need to play a pure arcade game then you go with NFS or some other title like Driver San Francisco, there's no need for yet another sub-genre.

Unless this new Grid is more in depth or at least on par with Shift 2 then I don't see the point, the first 2 weren't and I know that the first one came before Shift but if someone takes your formula and makes it that much better then you try harder or you go home.

Could you please explain how FM is a simcade? Is it the lack of proper races, with realistic fuel and tire wear, pit stops.. better crashes, better AI, or are you leveling that at the physics?

Furthermore, are you comparing it to PC sims and calling it a simcade?

Just curious, that's all.

 

[Fryto]

It seems to depend from game to game. F12010 was their best title for me to play with my DFGT. That was a pretty good experience. F12012 was absolutely awful and F12013 is ok but has some strange steering input bugs with my wheel. PC vs PS3 might make a difference though

So it will be yet to see what they'll get us in the new game...

 

[Awong124]

It seems to depend from game to game. F12010 was their best title for me to play with my DFGT. That was a pretty good experience. F12012 was absolutely awful and F12013 is ok but has some strange steering input bugs with my wheel. PC vs PS3 might make a difference though

So it will be yet to see what they'll get us in the new game...

The way CM set up the steering wheel settings are very strange. They seem almost arbitrary because settings that work for one game likely wouldn't work for another. My steering wheel settings for each of their F1 games (I have them all from 2010 to 2013) are all different. I think maybe my settings for 2013 are the same as the ones for 2010, but that's probably just a coincidence. So I have to spend about 15-30 minutes tweaking the settings in every new game. But once I have it dialed in, they all feel very good.

 

[Samus]

I really hate how games need to be given a hard label these days. Sim, arcade, they HAVE to be categorised as one or the other. Now we have a word I hate, simcade. I don't remember it ever being like that in the PS1 and PS2 days. Sure games had different styles but there didn't seem to be this huge need to label them all.

 

[Downhill Dino]

I only ever really use the arcade label if it actually had an arcade counterpart. I refuse to use simulator for a game though.

"Simcade" feels like a compromise between differing opinions, which it pretty much is. That's lame.

 

[Awong124]

I really hate how games need to be given a hard label these days. Sim, arcade, they HAVE to be categorised as one or the other. Now we have a word I hate, simcade. I don't remember it ever being like that in the PS1 and PS2 days. Sure games had different styles but there didn't seem to be this huge need to label them all.

I guess it's better than "armulation".

 

[PepeMickey]

Could you please explain how FM is a simcade? Is it the lack of proper races, with realistic fuel and tire wear, pit stops.. better crashes, better AI, or are you leveling that at the physics?

Furthermore, are you comparing it to PC sims and calling it a simcade?

Just curious, that's all.

I'm basing it on the ease of use and a mix of everything really, it doesn't go in depth enough on all of those aspects to be simulator but it does a good enough job to make the experience ''authentic''. Physics are realistic enough to make it believable but not too realistic so casuals and people who don't have a clue can still have a good time.

BTW, PC sims are just a benchmark for commercial simulators but they're not the highest degree of simulation that exists, they're still just videogames. Technology to make a military or industrial degree simulator for the masses just isn't there, we can play and act like we are race car drivers with our wheels and gadgets and all that stuff but they aren't even advanced enough to really make a difference which makes the absurd prices just not worth the effort, they're still just toys which is why I won't bother with a high end wheel until one of them makes me remotely feel like I'm actually driving.

 

[2clicks]

I'm curious as to how this new career mode is going to work. From the sounds of things, you could complete it while limiting yourself to a single discipline if you wanted to. That appeals to me, because the idea of tuner and street racing hold zero appeal to me.

Here's hoping for Pro Career Mode from Race Driver 3 to return, with customisable championships among other things.

 

[MeanElf]

Codemasters seem lost...They took out all the assists with Grid 2 claiming they had a perfect driving model for everyone...now every assist is back. They took out cockpit (not enough people use it apparently) now it's back in...The company needs leadership/direction!

That's probably because an investment company owns Codemasters - it sort of makes sense when you view the see-sawing like that.

For the record, I've enjoyed all their PS3 DiRT games and Grid - F1 not so much and Grid 2 has remained largely unplayed recently.

 

[GTracer98]

Grid is just an arcade racer with an emphasis on authentic racing (well, the first one was.) I don't think they're trying to create another sub-genre with this, they're just trying to appeal to core Grid fans. Regardless of genre, the first grid was extremely fun, and I know a lot of people want more of that.

Codemasters is a bit special, I mean, they make realistic games but not through the classic ways like physics. It's the atmosphere that somehow feels realistic. Sometimes it is over the top but the damage, sounds and AI are always top-notch and certainly contribute to the realism of their games. Also, Codies always add classes in their games, like Rally, Rallycross etc. in Dirt, for instance.

 

[Awong124]

Codemasters is a bit special, I mean, they make realistic games but not through the classic ways like physics. It's the atmosphere that somehow feels realistic. Sometimes it is over the top but the damage, sounds and AI are always top-notch and certainly contribute to the realism of their games.

That is extremely well put, and sums up exactly why I like Codemasters' games.