Grid Autosport (General Discussion)

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GTracer98
Just a little. But that's not the point. The point is, very often the AI can't get round the first corner without pile ups. Which leaves me with two choices: crash with them or use some extra space of the track (just like in real life when they avoid incidents) and overtake them all.
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Happens every race in open wheel. Some guy takes the inside with me on the outside, takes way too much speed and rams me off the road.
 
Darragh
Happens every race in open wheel. Some guy takes the inside with me on the outside, takes way too much speed and rams me off the road.
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You're braking too early, then.

Take the first corner at Sepang South Reverse (the first circuit in the first Open-Wheel championship), for instance - it might sound insane, but you can brake about 120m from the corner and still make the apex. If you're feeling really brave, you can do it at the 100m board. You'll need to be really careful feeding the throttle back in or else you'll spin like a top, but with a bit of practice, you can do it, and you can do it regularly.

yabiggoose
I don't like the street category, surprisingly.
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I did grow frustrated with the Tier 1 races, but try your hand at some of the faster cars, especially the GT category. They're much faster, and even with a set-up to compensate for the RWD twitchiness, they still want to spin out. The first race you do with them is at Barcelona's Marine Gate, which has about two braking points. You have to learn how to power-slide, rally-style, to carry as much momentum into the corners and keep up with the AI (most of whom are far more sensible than their Tier 1 counterparts). And with the narrow circuits, blind corners and some very intimidating walls, it's rather like trying to throw a dart through a keyhole from across the room - it sounds impossible, but once you figure out how much power to use and where you can push, it becomes very rewarding. In the space of ten laps, I found about four and a half seconds.

It's a lot like GAS as a whole - difficult enough that success isn't immediate, but not frustrating enough to make you give up. You always want one more lap to try and get your line just right.
 
I'm not sure if it's because I'm braking too early, although I brake at the 140m mark usually for that turn. When I was at the Hockenheimring, I was taking the outside line around one guy, but he T-bones me and we're both well off the track. This was probably a once off, though.
 
Darragh
I'm not sure if it's because I'm braking too early, although I brake at the 140m mark usually for that turn. When I was at the Hockenheimring, I was taking the outside line around one guy, but he T-bones me and we're both well off the track. This was probably a once off, though.
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140m is way too early for that turn.

As for Hockenheim, you should only be giving the tiniest of squeezes to the brakes about 70m from the corner, or just enough to swing in and put two wheels on the kerb.
 
I'm not quite sure what my brake distance for the first turn is, I think it might be referenced to a kerb or something. But it was at the start, so... Maybe it was my mistake lol
 
Imari
Overtake off the track much?

If you want to make it harder, try playing by the rules of racing. The reason they bunch up is because there's only so much room on the road. The reason you're overtaking is you're not playing by the same rules they are.



Eh? Presumably there are good reasons why the consoles can't get it, like say, the hardware can't output a rear view mirror as well as keep up with everything else. That sucks, but such is life.

But that being the case, PC shouldn't get it? Despite the fact that PC hardware is immensely variable and most of us can probably handle the performance hit from a mirror? That's just selfish.
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I would agree with you if Nascar 14 the game didn't have them with 41 other cars on the track besides my car and f1 201x and others that I won't even bother mentioning.
But I guess you know better than most as to why it was left out so I guess that settles it.
 
BIG CAROLINA
I would agree with you if Nascar 14 the game didn't have them with 41 other cars on the track besides my car and f1 201x and others that I won't even bother mentioning.
But I guess you know better than most as to why it was left out so I guess that settles it.
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I don't know why they left it out. Pretty much every other racing game has it, and it's very useful. There's good reasons why it's in almost every racing game. I don't think leaving it out was a good idea at all.

But if they've made the design decision to remove the mirror, the graphics settings on console are likely to be tuned to max out the hardware without the mirror. Adding it in afterwards will then impact a lot of other things, unless you're on a system that is either already overpowered for the application or can adjust it's settings on the fly. Namely, PC.

Don't make the mistake of confusing my understanding of why it's difficult to add a mirror back into the game on console after release, with me approving of them removing the mirror in the first place. It should have had a mirror from the word go. But saying that doesn't mean that it's easy to add one in now. Sometimes life kicks you in the balls like that.

And if they decide that the work required to add a mirror on console is too much (maybe it requires going through and retesting everything, and then recertifying the whole game), I don't think PC users should be denied if it's a relatively easy fix for them.
 
Got one more to add for the rubber-band watch... Westley crashed on lap one of a race at Brands Hatch(probably due to a concertina caused by some moron trying to go 3-wide in the third-from last corner while I was overtaking someone else on the outside... I got spun but not as bad as he got it) and wound up setting fast lap more than 3 seconds clear of anyone else. He came back to finish mid-pack as usual, but must have been so far behind that they gave him the biggest rocket boosters I've seen so far to catch up.

It seems like he's been reaping a bit of what he's been sowing my last few seasons. Nobody's been playing nice with him. Tears have not been shed.
 
Been playing online this evening. I'm not usually into online gaming, but it's really quite enjoyable here. Got my own Mini Works and I'm going after getting my first touring car. I fancy the Civic.
 
Yeah when you get a good room with everyone on mics, with clean racers its a awesome experience. Big thumbs up to Codies for yet another truly epic driving/racing game
 
Morgoth_666
Got one more to add for the rubber-band watch... Westley crashed on lap one of a race at Brands Hatch(probably due to a concertina caused by some moron trying to go 3-wide in the third-from last corner while I was overtaking someone else on the outside... I got spun but not as bad as he got it) and wound up setting fast lap more than 3 seconds clear of anyone else. He came back to finish mid-pack as usual, but must have been so far behind that they gave him the biggest rocket boosters I've seen so far to catch up.
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I saw Nathan McKane get a puncture three laps into a fifteen-lap race and still finish sixth the other day. Mind you, I once managed to defend third place for twelve laps (out of twenty-five) with some aggressive defensive driving.

From what I've seen, the rubber-banding feels like genuine racecraft. If I make a mistake, the AI will be all over me, searching for a gap and trying to pressure me into a second error. They even alter their racing line going into the corner where I made that mistake the next time around, which can be very unsettling.
 
I had to defend first for the last ten laps after making a silly error at Barcelona and considering I was slower in the steering, the two cars behind me were a constant threat to the win.
 
Morgoth_666
It seems like he's been reaping a bit of what he's been sowing my last few seasons. Nobody's been playing nice with him. Tears have not been shed.
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I would like to believe that his full name is Arron Martin Stuart Westley, because he is a Marty Stu - his bio reads like fan fiction; identified as a prodigious talent at a young age, extremely accomplished in a variety of disciplines, and possessed of traits that would be the envy of any driver. So he comes across as a Marty Stu - the male version of a Mary Sue - an idealised version of a fan fiction author, who effortlessly succeeds at whatever he does. At least the drivers like McKane have bios that are convincing, coming across as ultra-experienced, whose reputation is well-deserved.
 
Regarding the mirrors, would be nice to have them as an option, but i'd still prefer turning them off IF the arrows work good and keep on showing when someone is on your side going into a corner, which is the issue here i think.

GAS just needs updated arrows :P
 
mister dog
Regarding the mirrors, would be nice to have them as an option, but i'd still prefer turning them off IF the arrows work good and keep on showing when someone is on your side going into a corner, which is the issue here i think.

GAS just needs updated arrows :p
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I'm working on an idea I'm going to present to the team.... I can't promise anything though.
 
prisonermonkeys
I saw Nathan McKane get a puncture three laps into a fifteen-lap race and still finish sixth the other day. Mind you, I once managed to defend third place for twelve laps (out of twenty-five) with some aggressive defensive driving.

From what I've seen, the rubber-banding feels like genuine racecraft. If I make a mistake, the AI will be all over me, searching for a gap and trying to pressure me into a second error. They even alter their racing line going into the corner where I made that mistake the next time around, which can be very unsettling.
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Agreed. It seems to feel pretty natural, and often I can maintain a decent gap or can't close one when my usual pace is similar to theirs. It doesn't usually seem to give you gifts or rob you of hard work, it just keeps you on your toes and makes sure you at least have a chance. The occasional odd results I've seen have come from extreme circumstances. As something of a purist I might like to see it as an option, but who knows how it is actually implemented... and I don't really expect pure simulation from Grid for obvious reasons.

Also... where do you find these bios you've mentioned? I've never seen any such thing.
 
Imari
The point is the AI can't get around the first corner without concertina-ing. That involves swapping some paint, but not necessarily damage.

This happens in every real race series in the world. The first corner is always the most dangerous, and is never taken at full speed because there's so many cars in proximity.

It leaves you with three choices. Crash into them, go off the track, or back off and slow down to the same speed the AI are doing until you get through the corner. If you lose a couple of places, then that's racing. Sometimes it happens, and sometimes you spot a gap and gain a couple. It's a very fluid time of the race.

(Four choices if you want to allow yourself to go off the track to avoid a collision, but play by the normal rules of giving back any places gained by doing so. Run wide and take the places, then give them back at the next safe opportunity. You know what place you were in before the corner...)

In real life, what would you do if you were stuck on the inside line (ie. no option of running off track) and everyone piled into the first corner like that? Shrug and say "Oh well, guess I'm gonna crash then"? Or back out of it, and mug everyone on the following straight as they get awful exits from the corner? Or even just wait for your moment, spot your gap, get your elbows out and make sure you get through it in one piece?

Sometimes it's not possible. Sometimes you just crash for no fault of your own. Those situations are way rarer than most people think. That's true in real life, and the Grid AI are for the most part better than most random groups of humans I find online in any game.


You get to choose how you drive, you just apparently don't like any driving style that might mean you have to give up any time or speed because of conditions beyond your control. Unfortunately, that's a big part of what racing is: adapting to the conditions on the racetrack.
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Ok, but the AI pile ups still a little too frequent. In real life that doesn't happen that often. Especially in the higher, more professional racing series. ;) I can go slower, sure, and take it more cautiously like in real life but that doesn't change the fact that the AI drivers smash into each other too frequently. Tell me, do you really disagree with that? How often do you see first corner pile ups in, say, the Blancpain Endurance Series? In real life they take the first corner fairly quickly, sure, not as fast as normally but not that slow either.
 
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I have seen some pretty shameful displays of amateur driving in Blancpain, but first corner pileups are certainly more rare than in Grid(or in GT Online). You seem to be luckier than most at encountering them it seems. I know I've seen a few, but out of 50+ races I've seen maybe 5 where it was worse than just a little bumping and perhaps one car having to check up badly which almost everyone else goes around. Maybe once where it was as bad a traffic jam as in the video you posted. Of course, I play on Hard because I'm slow and inconsistent... it might be different on Very Hard, particularly if they are more agressive in turn 1.

I have definitely seen the problems, just on a smaller scale usually involving 3-4 cars several laps in. There is also an issue where cars that survive an accident but have to retire don't pull off the track when they do quit. It's incredibly frustrating when you see an accident, one car drives away, and just as you're about to pull over and pass them 500 yards later they slam on the brakes to a near-instant dead stop, and you spend the rest of the race with significant damage. I know, I should bring flashbacks for those instances... but I really like seeing that big ZERO in my stats. :D

I had worse problems with AI checking up excessively in the first GRID, if you just stayed off their line you could often gain 10+ places on the first lap, and that was just avoiding each other, not even involving accidents. It certainly wouldn't hurt the GAS drivers to have another lesson in accident avoidance and looking ahead however. But the same could probably be said for most games' AI.
 
anim8r_uk
I'm working on an idea I'm going to present to the team.... I can't promise anything though.
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Good to know that an effort is being made, it is appreciated.

I would think that something simple like having the arrow show at a greater distance, for example the widest point on the widest track plus a car width (to include two off and curbs) would help.. and if possible have it turn from white > green > yellow > orange > red as the car gets closer. That would match the contact rating.

The hardest thing with this type of system is showing when a car is directly behind you and how far. This is mainly because the arrow does not show well on the bottom of the screen in bonnet or in-car views. This is what, sorry to say, mirrors do well.
 
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yeah... i think the idea I have covers all those bases :) Larger, more visible arrows (without being over bearing), Colour changes to specify distance from you, arrows stay onscreen longer.... so a car can be along-sdie...and even slightly infront before arrow fades out. That way, it covers all your blind spots.

My idea goes into more depth that that, but that's the gist of it.

But yes, I agree..... Mirrors are definately needed.
 
anim8r_uk
yeah... i think the idea I have covers all those bases :) Larger, more visible arrows (without being over bearing), Colour changes to specify distance from you, arrows stay onscreen longer.... so a car can be along-sdie...and even slightly infront before arrow fades out. That way, it covers all your blind spots.

My idea goes into more depth that that, but that's the gist of it.

But yes, I agree..... Mirrors are definately needed.
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Bigger arrows or colored ones might be distracting and end up being annoying, i think the arrow system we have now is perfect apart from the flaw that they disappear all of a sudden when you are side by side. Making sure they aren't switched off in these cases would make it perfect IMO ;)
 
mister dog
Bigger arrows or colored ones might be distracting and end up being annoying, i think the arrow system we have now is perfect apart from the flaw that they disappear all of a sudden when you are side by side. Making sure they aren't switched off in these cases would make it perfect IMO ;)
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That is a good point - they do work pretty well except for already noted issues... Maybe have a option selection "simple" or "advanced color" I honestly don't know if I would like the color changing until I tried it.

I am only so interested because I enjoy the game and I get passed a lot :dunce: plus have more time to be on the forum than actually play..
 
This video is probably a better example of the AI carnage at the first corner. This happened not just once, I restarted the race like 5 times and everytime it looked like the scene from the 2012 Belgian Grand Prix! :crazy:

 
I'd just say make The White arrows a little more visible to see the level of brightness of them. But side by side arrows are definitely needed. I'd like a simple yellow-red, or just increased intensity of brightness of the arrows :)
 
GTracer98
Ok, but the AI pile ups still a little too frequent. In real life that doesn't happen that often. Especially in the higher, more professional racing series. ;) I can go slower, sure, and take it more cautiously like in real life but that doesn't change the fact that the AI drivers smash into each other too frequently. Tell me, do you really disagree with that? How often do you see first corner pile ups in, say, the Blancpain Endurance Series? In real life they take the first corner fairly quickly, sure, not as fast as normally but not that slow either.
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I don't disagree at all, but if you're expecting pro driver levels of control out of the AI, you're likely to be disappointed with the AI in every game for the next fifty years.

I expect human levels of control out of the AI. I expect them to behave like your average, reasonably competent sim racer. Whenever I race with other humans, it's pretty rare that nobody divebombs the first corner unless they're in a league. And even then it's iffy.

The AI play at about the level of the rookie series in iRacing. That's all I expect, and I think it's a pretty good achievement.

Yeah, the AI could be better. But five year olds could be better at math too. It all depends what you think is a reasonable level of AI to expect, and how much you're willing to trade for it.
 
After not seeing too many major first-corner pileups over 60 races... all 3 street races so far today had a 5-8 car disaster in turn one, followed by a very familiar-looking mess at Abu Dhabi in my sole attempt at the RaceNet challenge. :lol:

I need to stop thinking I know what to expect. Every time I do it changes.
 

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