Griffith 500 Understeer???? What?

[Daddybird]

I drive an RX-8 in real life and I can tell you (except for being too fast in-game) it's damn good simulation.
I really think this is as close as it gets, exept for GTR and GTLengend I own, tho those games are more for the RACING CAR addicts, which GT4 lacks at.

 

[Dave A]

But it is fast 0-60MPH and 0-100MPH.

Not quite as fast, but not much slower either, all it needed was a silencer and a catlayctic converter, the rest of the car as racey as it is, is actually road legal.

 

[Appie]

never used it

 

[Daddybird]

never used it

So what's your post>?

 

[Kent]

1. Increasing the rear spring rate makes the car understeer more, despite what RL facts dictate.

2. Don't use aids, as they'll slow you down.

3. Get the full custom suspension, and set the stabilizers to 4/3, rear toe to -1, and lower the rear spring rate. That should get rid of most of the understeer.

I totally disagree "1" and "3".

Regarding the TVR though...

The problem is more than likely coming from your driving and not your car.

Sometimes you've just gotta learn to drive the car based on its characteristics and not based on what you want it to do.

If the TVR is giving you too much understeer and you can't change it, then simply try a different car.

However, if I was having trouble with that car understeering, the first thing I would do is concentrate on 2 things...

1) Brake in a straight line well before the turn.
2) Use the power of the rear wheel drive to achieve oversteer on the exits.

That combined with a touch of bias on the brake balancer should put you on the right path. 👍

 

[Wolfe]

It may be a game, and you won't be able to feel any motion or perceive any true depth/speed because of that, but that doesn't excuse GT4 from its troubles.

TVRs are supposed to be beasts. The TVRs in GT4 are as tame as can be, either understeering, uselessly spinning the rear wheels while travelling in a perfect straight line, or doing small half-a**ed bouts of oversteer out of a corner.

The Tuscan may be biased towards understeer in real life, but every car in GT4 is biased towards understeer.

 

[Dave A]

Pretty much ever road car in real life is biased towards understeer, it's safer than biasing them to oversteer.

Out of curiosity, what tyre's do you use?

 

[Daddybird]

A car will always go to understeering when braking before a corner due to it's weight. Only if you abruptle cause instability you will get oversteer, which you can increase by adding throttle (in a FR car).

 

[Dave A]

Your right, braking into a corner will produce understeer.

 

[Kent]

The TVRs in GT4 are as tame as can be, either understeering, uselessly spinning the rear wheels while travelling in a perfect straight line, or doing small half-a**ed bouts of oversteer out of a corner.

The Tuscan may be biased towards understeer in real life, but every car in GT4 is biased towards understeer.

I totally disagree (think I've already done that in this thread once ).

In any case, I disagree.

If every car in GT4 understeers for you then it is probably your driving causing the problem and not the game (cause I have no problems with understeer for the most part).

The TVRs in GT4 are all beast.
However, there are a few that are harder to handle than the others...
The main thing about the TVRs in GT4 is that they are all very unique and in each case (more or less) they handle very differently.

The point I stress the most in a situation like this is...

Learn to drive each car individually and learn to adjust your driving to fit the car.
Don't drive each car with the same "style" and don't expect settings to make up for bad driving technique.

Heed that sort of advice and there will not be a car in GT4 you can't handle. 👍

 

[Wolfe]

A car will always go to understeering when braking before a corner due to it's weight. Only if you abruptle cause instability you will get oversteer, which you can increase by adding throttle (in a FR car).

Au contrair. (Is that spelled right?)

Locking your brakes can bring the tail out and begin a slide/drift.

Using the brakes to shift weight forward will help the front wheels pull the nose into a corner, allowing you to corner normally if you're careful with the limited grip of your front tires, or allowing you to drift if you turn hard enough and let the tail come out.

Pretty much ever road car in real life is biased towards understeer, it's safer than biasing them to oversteer.

Out of curiosity, what tyre's do you use?

If you were asking me, all of them. N's for physics evaluations, S's to attempt to have fun (never works, actually), R's for crazy super-cars.

I totally disagree (think I've already done that in this thread once ).

In any case, I disagree.

If every car in GT4 understeers for you then it is probably your driving causing the problem and not the game (cause I have no problems with understeer for the most part).

The TVRs in GT4 are all beast.
However, there are a few that are harder to handle than the others...
The main thing about the TVRs in GT4 is that they are all very unique and in each case (more or less) they handle very differently.

The point I stress the most in a situation like this is...

Learn to drive each car individually and learn to adjust your driving to fit the car.
Don't drive each car with the same "style" and don't expect settings to make up for bad driving technique.

Heed that sort of advice and there will not be a car in GT4 you can't handle. 👍

I appreciate the friendly advice, Kent, but that's not my problem with the game.

I can't say I agree with you that the cars in GT4 feel unique and different from any other car with the same drivetrain layout (FR, FF, MR, etc.).

Also, I can't say I really have any trouble getting cars to move quickly. I may not be one of the fastest (or even faster) guys around here, but Scaff and I were about even on a random little time-attack dealie we did for one of our debates. What I do have tons of trouble with is getting the cars to do what I want them to do, especially in the realm of oversteer. I don't complain about understeer because I can't control it -- I complain about it because there's so much of it, the game just isn't fun.

 

[Kent]

Also, I can't say I really have any trouble getting cars to move quickly. I may not be one of the fastest (or even faster) guys around here, but Scaff and I were about even on a random little time-attack dealie we did for one of our debates. What I do have tons of trouble with is getting the cars to do what I want them to do, especially in the realm of oversteer. I don't complain about understeer because I can't control it -- I complain about it because there's so much of it, the game just isn't fun.

Well, I'd say we are at an impass.

I consider GT4 highly enjoyable and great fun.

I also see most of the cars as having very unique characteristics (such as the difference between a Tamora, Cerbera 6, Tuscan 6, and Speed 12).

I also disagree about the understeer.
In my opinion there is a nearly perfect balance of understeer and oversteer in GT4, most of which is dependant on your driving- not the car.

So there you have it, proof that is nothing else, most of what you and I have both said is Opinion and not fact (good, bad, or otherwise, we have opinions that disagree).

All's good. 👍

Also, regarding oversteer in braking...
Don't forget that there are so many factors regarding braking that both Oversteer and Understeer are possibilities.

The philosophy you used to suggest oversteer through drifting is also capable of producing serious understeer (especially since most cars have more braking power in the front than in the rear).

I can confidently say, if you are using that philosophy on a regular basis there is no suprise in your accusations of understeer in GT4.

 

[R5Turbo2]

Au contrair. (Is that spelled right?)

No, but you're close : au contraire.

PhM

 

[JTSnooks]

Understeer and oversteer in GT4 can be achieved in any car in the game if you tune it right. My Griffith 500 handles like a dream after I set it up. I ran under 6'30 on the Nurburgring in it (can't remember if it was R3 or R5) tires. The point is, with enough practice you can learn to tune a car to oversteer or understeer as much as you want. I prefer neutral handling with a little oversteer on corner exit, so that's how I set up all my cars. Only a few are hard to set up this way, mostly the MR and RR cars. FR I can easily get to do whatever I want.

 

[Daddybird]

C'mon please run the Griffith on the N2 tires round the Ring.

 

[Dave A]

Yeah, it's a blast stock on N2 or N3's, you kick that back end out round loads of the corners at the ring.

 

[TurboRegal]

I really don't think it was my driving, because I've never, ever, ever, had any car in gt4, even FF cars, that seemed to understeer like that friggin Griffith. I just thought maybe they were set up like that slightly from the factory, like a few select FR cars, but it just seemed uncharacteristic for it to understeer worse than a FF car...

 

[JTSnooks]

Huh, I never noticed any understeer in it.

And I drive plenty of cars on N2 (or N3, or N1) tires, but someone had a lap time challenge for Midfield so I went all out on it, then afterwards I was curious about how fast it could lap the 'ring with only 550hp. Turns out it's pretty dang fast, and it handles the bumps well even with its low weight.

 

[Wolfe]

Well, I'd say we are at an impass.

I consider GT4 highly enjoyable and great fun.

I also see most of the cars as having very unique characteristics (such as the difference between a Tamora, Cerbera 6, Tuscan 6, and Speed 12).

I also disagree about the understeer.
In my opinion there is a nearly perfect balance of understeer and oversteer in GT4, most of which is dependant on your driving- not the car.

So there you have it, proof that is nothing else, most of what you and I have both said is Opinion and not fact (good, bad, or otherwise, we have opinions that disagree).

All's good. 👍

Fair enough.

Also, regarding oversteer in braking...
Don't forget that there are so many factors regarding braking that both Oversteer and Understeer are possibilities.

The philosophy you used to suggest oversteer through drifting is also capable of producing serious understeer (especially since most cars have more braking power in the front than in the rear).

I can confidently say, if you are using that philosophy on a regular basis there is no suprise in your accusations of understeer in GT4.

Locking your brakes can bring the tail out and begin a slide/drift.

"can" != "will"

The statement was in response to Daddybird, who said, "A car will always go to understeering when braking before a corner due to it's weight."

That said, I also do not use braking as my primary means of drift initiation. I use weight transfer much more often.

 

[Rooble]

TVR Really isnt my choice of ride. Although, id set it up a little soft so i can get some easy weight transfer and let it slide through the corner. Seeing as i only really race on nurburgring, this kind of style suits most of the FR cars i drive.

Stock suspension
Wing for downforce
Medium sports tyres
Uprated brakes

Beautiful combo, a bit of downforce to keep it stable at high speeds, and stock suspension for the pure buzz of it Its how i run all my cars!!

 

[mwoodski]

I don't think any of you mentioned an important part that he said.

I bought a used tvr grif 500, tuned it with lvl 2 na tuning, lvl 1 weight, exhaust and a chip. I take it to race in the TVR championship, and holy understeer. Why on earth is a FR 996 kg car with a huge engine up front understeering????

Think about it, big engine over the front wheels, lots of weight up front, weight up front=understeer

 

[Fonce Diablo]

Wait a second, if TVRs are biased towards understeering, then why was the rear end of my 350C flying all over the place when I was testing to see how suitable it'd be for the Pan-Euro Championship?

And about the whole understeer/oversteer bias, here's an idea:

"Let's just bias cars to steer, period!"

 

[Dave A]

Because you were driving it in a way that you exploited oversteer, drive it and try not spinning the wheels or deliberately kicking the back out and it will understeer. That provided it's stock and on N3 tyre's, I don't know about the sports tyre's it comes with, it's been age's since I've used thoes on anything.

 

[Wolfe]

I don't think any of you mentioned an important part that he said.


Think about it, big engine over the front wheels, lots of weight up front, weight up front=understeer

(relatively) Light car + Lots of weight in the front + RWD = Wheelspin

Which can lead to easy oversteer (though not always). Unless you'd like to argue that the Shelby Cobra is a tame, understeering little car.

 

[Kent]

(relatively) Light car + Lots of weight in the front + RWD = Wheelspin

Which can lead to easy oversteer (though not always). Unless you'd like to argue that the Shelby Cobra is a tame, understeering little car.

This brings up an interesting point...

The Tuscan may be biased towards understeer in real life, but every car in GT4 is biased towards understeer.

And on top of that, I still say it's all about respecting the car and driving it properly.

Drive the car the way it should be driven and you will have no problem getting around any track in the game with any car in the game. 👍

 

[Wolfe]

This brings up an interesting point...

The Tuscan may be biased towards understeer in real life, but every car in GT4 is biased towards understeer.

And on top of that, I still say it's all about respecting the car and driving it properly.

Drive the car the way it should be driven and you will have no problem getting around any track in the game with any car in the game. 👍

Which part of what I said, there?

"Every car in GT4 is biased towards understeer"...? When I mentioned the Cobra, I was not talking about GT4. The one in GT4 is tame.

"The Tuscan may be biased towards understeer in real life"...? I said that a light RWD car with a heavy nose produces wheelspin, which can (not will) produce oversteer. I was not making the point that the car shouldn't be biased towards understeer -- I was making the point that it should be relatively simple to get the rear wheels spinning and fix the problem if it has such a heavy nose.

 

[Wolfe]

Whoops, double-post.

 

[Scaff]

Performance Car Group Test 1992, TVR Griffith vs Porsche 968 vs Maserati Spyder

As in the 968, the limit of grip is now helpfully indicated by mild understeer.

However in the wet, from Auotcar roadtest, 1993.

In the wet the tail is keen to step out of line under power and it's not easy to catch when it goes.

The Griffith is perfectly capable of displaying both understeer and oversteer traits on the limit depending on the conditions, driver and section of the corner you are in (and not easy to catch once it does start to oversteer).

BTW the Griffith is not a nose heavy car, with a F/R weight distribution of 52/48 its actually a well balanced car as far as static weight distribution goes.

Regards


Scaff

 

[RXGem]

Has anyone found a good setup for the Griffith 500 yet??

Mine has 387HP and sits on Sport Hard tyres and I'm having a little understeer problem and power down issues. When traction is broken it neither wants to propel forward or sideways, which is quite annoying..

I'm sure the understeer issue will go away with abit of practice in the car and help finding a good setup.

I have two: one with 427HP and no weight reduction and the other with 387HP and stage 1 weight reduction.. both are roughly 2.6 power to weight ratio.

I must use Sport Hard tyres as it's part of the formula my friends and I use to produce close battles and the car must also be able to lap Grand Valley Speedway in the 1:58's or 59 range..

 

[Pink_the_Floyd]

Just keep the car stock and drive it with better throttle control.

There's the answer 👍