- 142
Im a professional race car driver and I always e brake turns. 
GT Academy - Lets get them to disable the handbrake!!!!
- Thread starter nickmp0wer
- 128 comments
- 14,463 views
- 2,498
- Iowa, USA
- LVracerGT
I say get rid of the e-brake in GT Academy. No professional racing driver uses an e-brake. I'm not arguing that it's not faster in real life or not, it's not common practice in a real race car and the academy is supposed to be looking for the best racing driver. Level the competition and remove it completely. Also they need to make a "lap doesn't count" feature on Cape Ring in the chicane where people are going across the pit exit grass for faster lap times.
- 1,103
- NY
- Tommy_861
You would think that, with all these 'my track day is bigger than yours' alpha dogs floating around (apparently, to get a Premium membership here, you just have to be as big a 🤬 as a current member), you'd think that at least ONE of these so-called 'experts' would comment on whether they themselves would ever drive a similar course using the e-brake and whether their mighty racing prowess would expect it to actually be faster under the same circumstances.
What the OP is getting at is NOT that you can do these kinds of things, but doing them makes you FASTER than doing them IRL would be. It's a physics and gameplay exploit. Pure and simple. Like track cutting without destroying your suspension. I guess it all boils down to whether PD want to change their banner...
'The Real (Arcade) Driving Simulator'
Or whether they take themselves (and us) seriously.
It's not about whether handbrakes are EVER used in racing. It's about, UNDER THOSE CIRCUMSTANCES, would they really be used, and would using them make you faster than not. I seriously doubt it. But, I've never been to a track day (been to enough ALMS racing, though). Guess I'm an idiot, too. Even without a BMW.
I'll wade past the shots and say that in real life if I felt that I could get a faster lap time using the hand brake yes I would use it. That said the physics engine on this game isn't perfect, as well you can't adjust the brake bias in GT:A races (which can have a similar effect of causing a bit of oversteer). Now if you're racing a stock car you can't adjust the bias anyway so we'll exclude that one. So the fastest way around a race track is to get slight rearend rotation to get the car to just slightly point itself in the direction you want to go using less turning input. On race tires I don't want to say this is easy but its easier than streets because they don't fall off so easily. You can just push the car until you start to feel that movement and you have it. Street tires can be done the same way in real life (they just fall off quickly and abruptly), but there is a slight flaw in the game that doesn't allow you to push the edge of the street tires, instead you just get handfuls of understeer. However the handbrake works exactly as in real life, by slowing the rear tires without the weight transfer to the front of the car. So it gives you a bit of rotation.
Back to the main question, would I do it? If I was not getting the same effect racing as I normally do, and I was in a competition to win an amazing prize, and especially that its not my car, ABSOLUTELY! At a track day? No, because its a tough technique that can backfire on you should you do it wrong. If I'm running my own personal 370Z street car (no I don't have one just saying) on a track day, its not worth the $35,000 risk. And for what that risk? A fast lap time at a track day? Not much of a reward.
Finally I never once said I have any sort of mighty prowess only knowledge of techniques. I will lay it on the table right now that I have a slower lap time than the OP by a decent amount. I haven't put a whole ton of effort in either so far.
- 210
- TenhulzenAuto
woooo I am 4th in my region!!!! overall
The next guy is .5 seconds ahead of me -_-
The next guy is .5 seconds ahead of me -_-
Destinkeys
(Banned)
- 1,199
- Destinkeys
Fair bit of hedging there...
It ain't an 'if'. DOES it work out for you, if you are in that car on that track, to use an e-brake in REAL LIFE? No, of course it doesn't, or it would be a standard driving technique, used ALL THE TIME. But, IRL, it rarely gets you around faster, and when it occasionally does (on corners MUCH tighter than the contest), it wears your tires and is very tough to control.
The very fact that this is an almost unused technique by tarmac track racers simply demonstrates that it isn't faster. As you said, IF you could go faster using it, you would. But you don't. QED.
What's at issue is, what's the greater damage to the game? Particularly one that prides itself on trying as hard to emulate reality... Do you leave the handbrake in, and have unrealistic driving, or do you take it out for contests as important as these, and have as few pure 'game' exploits as you possibly can? Particularly for one where the ultimate prize is to be placed in a REAL car, real driving (that which imitates what would be done under exactly the same circumstances by a real race pro) is what should be shot for, IMO.
Removing a part the car should have, but would NEVER be used in that same situation would return the competition to the high standards it is supposed to have. Under real racing condition, on track, that car and that track, no racer would ever even NEED to touch the e-brake. Removing it would be the lesser of two evils...
It ain't an 'if'. DOES it work out for you, if you are in that car on that track, to use an e-brake in REAL LIFE? No, of course it doesn't, or it would be a standard driving technique, used ALL THE TIME. But, IRL, it rarely gets you around faster, and when it occasionally does (on corners MUCH tighter than the contest), it wears your tires and is very tough to control.
The very fact that this is an almost unused technique by tarmac track racers simply demonstrates that it isn't faster. As you said, IF you could go faster using it, you would. But you don't. QED.
What's at issue is, what's the greater damage to the game? Particularly one that prides itself on trying as hard to emulate reality... Do you leave the handbrake in, and have unrealistic driving, or do you take it out for contests as important as these, and have as few pure 'game' exploits as you possibly can? Particularly for one where the ultimate prize is to be placed in a REAL car, real driving (that which imitates what would be done under exactly the same circumstances by a real race pro) is what should be shot for, IMO.
Removing a part the car should have, but would NEVER be used in that same situation would return the competition to the high standards it is supposed to have. Under real racing condition, on track, that car and that track, no racer would ever even NEED to touch the e-brake. Removing it would be the lesser of two evils...
- 210
- TenhulzenAuto
word
- 3,232
- Wales
Kind of annoying to have to use the handbrake to compete (the top guys seem to be about 1second ahead of the best i could do, i was placed 300 when i did my lap), but i guess it would help with the understeering FF cars at the Cape Ring time trial, is it unrealistic? probably yes, it is very unlikely that pulling the handbrake would help you go faster in those corners in the real world. Also annoying that i have to take my hand off the wheel to push a button on my gearbox if i wanna do it.
I guess this answers my question of "how the hell did they shave off a whole second" with that understeer.
I guess this answers my question of "how the hell did they shave off a whole second" with that understeer.
- 84
- M40_Sniper
Could anyone from the US upload one of these replays where the top of the leaderboard chaps are using the handbrake please?
- 41,038
Because real life "models" lift-off oversteer better than GT5.
Because real life "models" lift-off oversteer better than GT5.
And have unrealistic driving. Because real life "models" lift-off oversteer better than GT5.
Which is impossible withe the GT5 physics engine as it is. Because real life "models" lift-off oversteer better than GT5.
Because real life "models" lift-off oversteer better than GT5.
tl;dr, you are (repeatedly) making a rather large leap of logic and not seeing it. What you are saying is basically something like saying "If there is no crime in my neighbourhood, there is no need for a police force," which blatantly ignores the possibility that there may not be any crime because there is a police force.
You are calling out this "exploit" (which it really isn't, but I'll get to that in a moment) because in real life it wouldn't be as fast as doing the turns using a more "proper" technique, or wouldn't be necessary if it was as fast. The problem with this is that GT5 doesn't emulate the "proper" technique correctly, so using the handbrake to slide out the rear a bit to get around turns better isn't actually incorrect because of the flaws in the GT5 physics engine in regards to lift-off oversteer make using the handbrake faster.
The handbrake method isn't faster than it should be (or at least isn't by that much). The proper method is simply slower than it should be. In essence, all using the handbrake like the top players have been does is try to closer emulate what the GT5 physics engine should be doing but isn't.
- 210
- TenhulzenAuto
has anyone gotten better than 1:05.827 without the ebrake? I was up like .097 seconds after i figured out tc was on and turned it off but then I blew it and couldnt best that time
- 620
- Choate51
1.05.577 no e-brake. I honestly tried it to see if it made me any quicker and it didn't. I found that it over-heated the rear tires and made for a very tricky exit. Doesn't mean someone could be quicker with or without it.
- 1,103
- NY
- Tommy_861
Fair bit of hedging there...
It ain't an 'if'. DOES it work out for you, if you are in that car on that track, to use an e-brake in REAL LIFE? No, of course it doesn't, or it would be a standard driving technique, used ALL THE TIME. But, IRL, it rarely gets you around faster, and when it occasionally does (on corners MUCH tighter than the contest), it wears your tires and is very tough to control.
The very fact that this is an almost unused technique by tarmac track racers simply demonstrates that it isn't faster. As you said, IF you could go faster using it, you would. But you don't. QED.
What's at issue is, what's the greater damage to the game? Particularly one that prides itself on trying as hard to emulate reality... Do you leave the handbrake in, and have unrealistic driving, or do you take it out for contests as important as these, and have as few pure 'game' exploits as you possibly can? Particularly for one where the ultimate prize is to be placed in a REAL car, real driving (that which imitates what would be done under exactly the same circumstances by a real race pro) is what should be shot for, IMO.
Removing a part the car should have, but would NEVER be used in that same situation would return the competition to the high standards it is supposed to have. Under real racing condition, on track, that car and that track, no racer would ever even NEED to touch the e-brake. Removing it would be the lesser of two evils...
Wow, way to take what I said and twist it to fit what you want to prove. All I said was that I would need to try everything myself on the track and if it were not my car I would be more inclined to push it to the edge. The only REAL way to know if it is faster is to actually take a 370z on the real life track and try it both ways, since we don't have that luxury we can only go by conjecture. Toronado's post below said it better than I can. the fastest way around the track is to get the car to slide slightly. The ONLY way to do that in this game is to give the ebrake a tap because of a flaw in the physics engine. In real life you can also do it this way but the problem is its very easy for it to go wrong, whereas pushing the car to get some rear end rotation the proper way is a bit safer. As for which is faster in real life? Ther is no way to tell sitting here at our computers bitching about it.
In the end the guys in the lead are getting around the track in the fastest way possible making the car do what its supposed to do to go the fastest. if anything need to be fixed its the flaw in the physics engine, not that the hand brake is needed to get the car to handle the way its supposed to.
I couldn't have said it better myself.
- 10,456
- United States
- WrecklessAbandon
Where are the videos providing evidence of any comparable cars gaining time around comparable turns? When I see them, this thread will no longer be filled with stupidity.
Tornado is right, best thing is to fix the physics problems that exist, if that cannot be done in reasonable time, disabling the handbrake for the GTAcademy event is better than leaving it go.
Tornado is right, best thing is to fix the physics problems that exist, if that cannot be done in reasonable time, disabling the handbrake for the GTAcademy event is better than leaving it go.
If I still had GT5 I'd fire up my capture card and record the Tsukuba hairpin license test (I think it featured a Peugeot) to show you exactly what we mean.
I silvered that challenge a couple times, close but not quite fast enough to make gold. I decided to try the handbrake to see if it would help avoid the understeer, and got gold, first try, by a considerable margin. Later, I went back to other license tests I had trouble with and aced them effortlessly, again using the handbrake to help alleviate understeer.
Other than remembering to turn off the TCS, the handbrake is the easiest trick to getting gold on many of the challenges in the game. As I said before, if you don't believe it and have some gold trophies waiting to be earned, go try it yourself and see if it helps.
Maybe the way the guy with the top laptime replay is using it, but the handbrake continues to be useful even mid-corner, long after you should be braking. It's an instant and universal fix for little to no loss in speed.Turning off the ABS ( along with properly setup brake balance) will allow you to rotate the car under braking which would make it act like the way the handbrake is used here
ABS at 1 = understeer
- 393
- Germany
- RaceFace85
- 1,103
- NY
- Tommy_861
Turning off the ABS ( along with properly setup brake balance) will allow you to rotate the car under braking which would make it act like the way the handbrake is used here
ABS at 1 = understeer
Unfortunately you cannot setup brake balance in GT Academy, all those settings are locked. Hence the need for the hand brake.
- 26
But you do seem to think that you know how every driver in every car would tsake every corner (ie without the hand-break)
Well you posted a pic of a car on a track day...
No you seem to think that 5 track days makes you an expert on what all race drivers would do in all situations
Wow... way to explode at someone,
Ah so you've gone from "no racer would ever use this on a race track" to "no racer would ever use it on certain corners on a race track"... back track much?
Yes after working in the motor industry for years, you are a very typical BMW driver, although I thought that they were all migrating to Audi's these days?
- 26
...rant snip...
Guess I'm an idiot, too. Even without a BMW.
Well yeah actually... are these people runining your game too like those of us who like to give cars to our friends
- 926
- machschnel
I couldn't care less what someone uses to win, doesn't concern me in the slightest.
What does disgust me is the amount of ignorant poser's in this thread.
Use a handbrake in a real life race cars to go though corners? Really? Wouldn't have a video would you? Somehow, I have a feeling that video will be real hard to come by.
What does disgust me is the amount of ignorant poser's in this thread.
Use a handbrake in a real life race cars to go though corners? Really? Wouldn't have a video would you? Somehow, I have a feeling that video will be real hard to come by.
