GT League is Everything Good (and Bad) About Classic Gran Turismo

[Satomiblood]

I find it odd that they added more races to Sunday Cup considering that it's historically been a pretty short event (3 races). It doesn't seem like a lot of thought has been placed into the event and car themes. They dropped the ball with the Rally event, which features 3 races and only one of those is an actual rally course.

The other thing is the Vision GT event where not all of the VGT cars can be used, despite the AI being able to use the “prohibited” ones. I guess it’s all a part of the challenge in limiting selections, but I’d rather have full access to the class this event is already limited to.

 

[VBR]

You're not paying to use your own internet, you're paying to use their network. I guess you think toll roads should be free because you've paid your "road tax"?

It's peer to peer, all they do is connect my Playstation to a few other peoples Playstations over my internet connection (which I've already paid for). They managed to do it for free & still are on PS3, so no excuse for charging for it imo. I've never paid road tax in my life, but if I did I guess I'd be miffed about paying tolls on top of it, so yeah.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

It's peer to peer, all they do is connect my Playstation to a few other peoples Playstations over my internet connection (which I've already paid for). They managed to do it for free & still are on PS3, so no excuse for charging for it imo. I've never paid road tax in my life, but if I did I guess I'd be miffed about paying tolls on top of it, so yeah.

Deliberately misrepresenting something for the sake of the argument shows the flaws of said argument.

Some parts of GT Sport use peer-to-peer, sure. The entire community aspect (liveries, photos, replays) doesn't, nor does Sport Mode. And that's overlooking that the cost of PS Plus isn't about a single game: it's about the entire service for the platform.

It's like someone complaining about Netflix charging them money on top of their monthly internet.

 

[DatNoiseV12]

I find it odd that they added more races to Sunday Cup considering that it's historically been a pretty short event (3 races). It doesn't seem like a lot of thought has been placed into the event and car themes. They dropped the ball with the Rally event, which features 3 races and only one of those is an actual rally course. The other thing is the Vision GT event where not all of the VGT cars can be used, despite the AI being able to use the “prohibited” ones. I guess it’s all a part of the challenge in limiting selections, but I’d rather have full access to the class this event is already limited to.

Agreed, those are some strange choices (especially the Gr. B races). But, all in all, I still believe there's potential for different events & championships to make "GT League" bigger and better. Stuff like this would be nice, to start with:

• Gr. 3 Championship (Professional, Gr. 3 cars only)
• Gr. 4 Championship (Professional, Gr. 4 cars only)
• X-Bow Battle (Amateur, One Make: KTM X-Bow)
• TT Cup + (One Make: Audi TT Gr. 4)
• Ferrari Challenge (One Make: Ferrari 458 Gr. 4)
• Raging Bull vs. Prancing Horse (458 Italia vs. Lamborghini Huracan, N600)
• Homologation Specials Battle (Gr. 3 & Gr. B Road Cars only)
• UK vs Japan (Country limited, N700)
• Italy vs Germany (Country limited, N600)
• Custom Muscle (Chevy Nova vs. Mach Forty, N800)
• King of the Isle (One Make; Subaru WRX Time Attack)
• Renault Sport Trophy (One Make: R.S. 01 Gr. X)
• Silver Arrows (SLS AMG '10 vs. AMG GTS '15, N600)
• Bull Fest (Lamborghini Only, N800)

PD can also throw some missions/hotlap challenges in there for some extra variety.

 

[VBR]

Deliberately misrepresenting something for the sake of the argument shows the flaws of said argument.

Some parts of GT Sport use peer-to-peer, sure. The entire community aspect (liveries, photos, replays) doesn't, nor does Sport Mode. And that's overlooking that the cost of PS Plus isn't about a single game: it's about the entire service for the platform.

It's like someone complaining about Netflix charging them money on top of their monthly internet.

I think you're the one misrepresenting here. I was talking about multiplayer, i.e. online racing. And just because PD have decided to add some parts to their game that have to run on their servers isn't a valid argument to justify charging everyone for PS Plus, because there are plenty of games out there that don't do what GTS does in that regard.

I think it's fundamentally wrong to include multiplayer in PS Plus, always have done always will. Like I said, they didn't do it on PS3 so they can have free multiplayer on PS4 if they want (and indeed they do for some of the free to play games). I don't want 'the entire service' that is PS Plus, nothing about it is wanted or needed by me. And to be forced into buying it for just one feature, that I got for free on PS3, is extremely greedy on SCE's part.

And you're wrong, it's nothing like NETFLIX; people sign up to it to stream movies, I don't know of any ISP's that include free movies in a bare bones internet package, whereas PS3 did include free multiplayer with the console. If ISP's had always included free movies in all their basic packages, & then started to charge for it, your comparison might have had some validity.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

I think you're the one misrepresenting here. I was talking about multiplayer, i.e. online racing.

Except, as I've already pointed out, not all of the online racing uses P2P. That would be a misrepresentation.

And just because PD have decided to add some parts to their game that have to run on their servers isn't a valid argument to justify charging everyone for PS Plus, because there are plenty of games out there that don't do what GTS does in that regard.

And here's another: PD isn't charging PS Plus, Sony is. It's a company-wide initiative, not PD's choice.

I think it's fundamentally wrong to include multiplayer in PS Plus, always have done always will. Like I said, they didn't do it on PS3 so they can have free multiplayer on PS4 if they want (and indeed they do for some of the free to play games).

So you think it's "fundamentally wrong" because it was free at a previous time? Do price increases also get you upset?

Sony ate the costs on the entire online infrastructure for PlayStation until Plus arrived. Over on the other side, Xbox had the paid-for XBL Gold approach — and quite commonly, folks rated its overall service better. As ever, you get what you pay for.

Speaking of, there are free monthly games on both platforms that easily cover the cost of a year's subscription in terms of savings. No, they're unlikely to be to your (or my, or everyone's) tastes all the time, but nonetheless, Sony and Microsoft have introduced quite a lot of value into the equation for something that costs about $5 per month.

I don't want 'the entire service' that is PS Plus, nothing about it is wanted or needed by me.

Then don't buy it. That's the beauty of a free marketplace.

And to be forced into buying it for just one feature, that I got for free on PS3, is extremely greedy on SCE's part.

No — it was simply extremely generous before.

Here's what companies would have to pay for to support previous generation titles (PS1, 99% of PS2) post-launch:

Here's what they have to pay for to support PS3 and PS4 titles:

• Likely digital versions for purchase (PS Store).
• All update files.
• Servers.

Game development (and support) costs so much more than it did a decade ago. Teams are bigger, and have to work longer (since release isn't the end). Gamers balk at the idea of price increases on games, so the only other option is to spread the costs elsewhere.

And you're wrong, it's nothing like NETFLIX; people sign up to it to stream movies, I don't know of any ISP's that include free movies in a bare bones internet package, whereas PS3 did include free multiplayer with the console. If ISP's had always included free movies in all their basic packages, & then started to charge for it, your comparison might have had some validity.

Netflix used to be $10/month. For some folks, it's now nearly double that. How greedy of Netflix.

Tesla's Supercharger network used to be free for all, all the time. Now, it isn't. How greedy of Tesla.

 

[Krypton78]

I admit I didn't read all the previous comments in this thread, so what I'm going to say is maybe already written.

I completed only the beginner league and a few races in the other leagues in GT Leage. Until now it looks for me like a failure. It can't replace the former careers, because I can't find any motivation.

- Its simply far to easy. You can tune a car and take 2 steps better tyres then the KI and put a monkey at the wheel and he will win. I tried to lower the performance of my car to the limit where I can barely win, to motivate myself. But in long term its just stupid.
- it is no acces limitation, you can start with the pro league without completing the lower ones
- there are no car rewards. It would have made more sense as the stupid gifting a car after 42 km.
- There are no penalties. Its zero preperation for sport mode. Its just wall riding and and raming each other
- the driving style of the KI is almost the same like 20 years ago. It brakes 3 length to early to a curve.

And thats why I have the feeling its just waste of time

 

[MisterOne77]

I admit I didn't read all the previous comments in this thread, so what I'm going to say is maybe already written.

I completed only the beginner league and a few races in the other leagues in GT Leage. Until now it looks for me like a failure. It can't replace the former careers, because I can't find any motivation.

- Its simply far to easy. You can tune a car and take 2 steps better tyres then the KI and put a monkey at the wheel and he will win. I tried to lower the performance of my car to the limit where I can barely win, to motivate myself. But in long term its just stupid.
- it is no acces limitation, you can start with the pro league without completing the lower ones
- there are no car rewards. It would have made more sense as the stupid gifting a car after 42 km.
- There are no penalties. Its zero preperation for sport mode. Its just wall riding and and raming each other
- the driving style of the KI is almost the same like 20 years ago. It brakes 3 length to early to a curve.

And thats why I have the feeling its just waste of time

The lack of car rewards being a thing has made me a little less enthusiastic about GT League. I don't have the game but I do plan on getting it, but the lack of car rewards rubbed me the wrong way in GT6.

 

[Krypton78]

The lack of car rewards being a thing has made me a little less enthusiastic about GT League. I don't have the game but I do plan on getting it,

My complain is about GT League. But when when it comes to a decision if buying or not, then I can definetely recommend the game, because there is way more.

You still have other offline- contents where you are rewarded with cars.

But the main reason why I can recommend it is the sport mode (multiplayer). Its not perfect, but you can build up yourself, and the achieving of higher rankings and matching with stronger drivers does really motivate.

 

[TonyJZX]

The lack of car rewards being a thing has made me a little less enthusiastic about GT League. I don't have the game but I do plan on getting it, but the lack of car rewards rubbed me the wrong way in GT6.

My motivation for the single player is largely a checklist... I need that gold trophy and I need gold on the circuit experience and missions. THat's it.

I'm not motivated by the gift cars. I'm like 75% way thru missions circuit experience etc and I have millions so the vast majority you can buy anyway.

I'm not greatly impressed with the free cars on every level from forza or the wheelspins and I feel the 26 mile/42km daily free car isnt great either but I think its a give and take... you get so many free cars after playing day by day its not an issue.

Further I think PD cant give away free cars with the GT League given they are constantly expanding the number of races.

What I do have an issue with is how they changed the VGTs from being effectively 'free' in GT6 to now a million a piece but saying that I wouldnt buy them anyway.

 

[MMX]

The GrB race at Willow is probably the most fun offline race I've had in this game so far. Really good combo, especially on Sports tires.

 

[DatNoiseV12]

The GrB race at Willow is probably the most fun offline race I've had in this game so far. Really good combo, especially on Sports tires.

Interesting. Which car did you choose? Any tune? I tried the Genesis and the GT-R but both felt horribly wooden at Willow and Tokyo..

 

[Satomiblood]

Shouldn’t Gr. B use Racing Hard when on asphalt?

 

[TonyJZX]

I did this with the 1987 Audi Quattro Pikes Peak car.

Its the gun platform for this group given its 636hp on only 1,000kg - granted you need to get the final drive up to 180mph 300km/h - its like driving on jello on the super sports and any off is likely to be game ending.

I only had issues with the R35 Grp.B car but no one stands a chance really if you can drive big willow.

I hate this race but eh... its not too hard.

 

[MMX]

Interesting. Which car did you choose? Any tune? I tried the Genesis and the GT-R but both felt horribly wooden at Willow and Tokyo..

I used the 86 bone stock, on Sport Soft tires. The only "tuning" was brake bias, and transmission.

Shouldn’t Gr. B use Racing Hard when on asphalt?

It wouldn't be as fun though.

 

[Brzlav]

I admit I didn't read all the previous comments in this thread, so what I'm going to say is maybe already written.

I completed only the beginner league and a few races in the other leagues in GT Leage. Until now it looks for me like a failure. It can't replace the former careers, because I can't find any motivation.

- Its simply far to easy. You can tune a car and take 2 steps better tyres then the KI and put a monkey at the wheel and he will win. I tried to lower the performance of my car to the limit where I can barely win, to motivate myself. But in long term its just stupid.
- it is no acces limitation, you can start with the pro league without completing the lower ones
- there are no car rewards. It would have made more sense as the stupid gifting a car after 42 km.
- There are no penalties. Its zero preperation for sport mode. Its just wall riding and and raming each other
- the driving style of the KI is almost the same like 20 years ago. It brakes 3 length to early to a curve.

And thats why I have the feeling its just waste of time

Wholeheartedly agree to everything. There is more that I miss, but well, it is not GT 7. However, it would be possible to combine a classis GT career with license tests, starting out in a Suzuki Cappuccino or used Nissan something and slowly claw up the rankings by tuning and so on with sport mode, as you can always use the cars from your manufacturer's contract to race Gr. 3 and 4 online.

What I don't understand at all though is why all GT League series are single races instead of championships.

I do enjoy that some races are multiclass and wish that we get that soon in lobby racing.

 

[MIE1992]

What I don't understand at all though is why all GT League series are single races instead of championships.

I think the fact that they're still adding races to some events is part of it. Maybe when they're done adding races to some events, they'll integrate the ability to have them be championships (especially the Gr.2, Red Bull Jr, and F1500T events). Speaking of which, I wonder if we'll get lobby options to host championships, as well? Maybe even have them be spaced out (weekly, maybe?) more akin to real-world championships so you don't have to do a bunch of back-to-back races in one sitting.

I do enjoy that some races are multiclass and wish that we get that soon in lobby racing.

Agreed - and I think if there's a multiclass race where one of the classes includes Gr.X cars, that Gr.X group should essentially be a one-make race, since Gr.X is like a "wastebin taxon" that can wildly vary. Or maybe there could be a "multiclass" race that includes multiple one-make Gr.X cars? Like if one part of the field was using the Subaru VGT and the other was using the Mitsubishi VGT, that'd be considered two different classes, rather than forcing everyone to believe they're on equal footing.

 

[simsimsheree]

Everything that was good about GT5/6 is gone. That massive car list equated to a very wide selection of cars to choose from at any PP level. You could find a few really well balanced cars everywhere from Kei cars to supercars. A massive selection of regular road cars (easy to control on GT6's far better comfort and sport tire model) made for good clean close racing.

GTS's tiny car list means that anything other than the Gr. cars has a rabbit or two and the rest are also rans. Kiss spec untuned racing goodbye.

GTS's track list is an insult to the full price charged for the game. And leads to boring repetition at the same fake tracks with huge rumble strips as wide as a car, encouraging mad off track moves. The city tracks are bashfests. Tokyo is now pretty much shunned by any driver not interested in losing his SR/DR points, whereas Tokyo in GT5/6 was a great track. Who doesn't miss Rome..? There isn't a new imaginary track I feel is on a par with just about all of GT5/6's. And the real track selection in GTS isn't worth the price of the disk, now that far better games exist.

Shuffle, despite a huge outcry when it was axed, never reappeared. TBH, it was better than Sport Mode any day. Huge car selection, plenty of groups, winners from one race got slower cars than the losers. It lead to the best close racing that GT ever had, without being boring one car tunefests.

Pretty much nothing we asked for during GT5/6 came true, and almost everything we did like was taken out. So much for PD listening to the base...

Once upon a time, PD ruled the roost, alone and virtually unchallenged. Those days are gone. I can state quite honestly that I think PC2 is already a far better game than GTS. As is AC. Only inertia and habit is keeping Gran Turismo alive. How long they can sustain that with these far better options available and the complete abandonment of everything that made GT6 a great game is anyone's guess.

GTS is like looking at the ruins of a once magnificent Roman temple...

 

[RichiPuppy]

Gt League is why I recommend this game to my friends now and didn’t before. As far as it being too easy, that is all in the car you choose and the tires you put on it. You can make it as hard or easy as you want and the rewards you receive take that into account. The only thing I would change is adding gift cars for completing a series.

 

[MisterOne77]

My motivation for the single player is largely a checklist... I need that gold trophy and I need gold on the circuit experience and missions. THat's it.

I'm not motivated by the gift cars. I'm like 75% way thru missions circuit experience etc and I have millions so the vast majority you can buy anyway.

I'm not greatly impressed with the free cars on every level from forza or the wheelspins and I feel the 26 mile/42km daily free car isnt great either but I think its a give and take... you get so many free cars after playing day by day its not an issue.

Further I think PD cant give away free cars with the GT League given they are constantly expanding the number of races.

What I do have an issue with is how they changed the VGTs from being effectively 'free' in GT6 to now a million a piece but saying that I wouldnt buy them anyway.

The VGTs in GT6 cost a million each though...

My complain is about GT League. But when when it comes to a decision if buying or not, then I can definetely recommend the game, because there is way more.

You still have other offline- contents where you are rewarded with cars.

But the main reason why I can recommend it is the sport mode (multiplayer). Its not perfect, but you can build up yourself, and the achieving of higher rankings and matching with stronger drivers does really motivate.

Sport mode is out of the question for since online isn't free.

 

[Quakebass]

Sometimes I wish the way AI seems to activate a sort of "party mode" in the last lap or two could be activated for the entire duration of the race.

I've actually had to defend and sometimes go two-wide in the corners, it's a shame the fun only lasts a couple minutes. It often seems to be at a higher difficulty level than the professional offering in Arcade mode.

 

[Brzlav]

Sometimes I wish the way AI seems to activate a sort of "party mode" in the last lap or two could be activated for the entire duration of the race.

I've actually had to defend and sometimes go two-wide in the corners, it's a shame the fun only lasts a couple minutes. It often seems to be at a higher difficulty level than the professional offering in Arcade mode.

The problem is in the race format that let's you start 30 seconds behind the leader. The leader is then going real slow and just adjusting his speed once you have overtaken him.
Remember that GT 1 had a qualifying lap in every race? I wish we had that in GT League as well, than a start with cars close together and the AI going at a reasonable pace.

I have done the Mt Panorama Endurance race a few days ago and while it was enjoyable as the track is just so damn cool, the AI speed was weird once again. At the beginning, they were pulling away on the straights like they had 300hp more than me. They then settled to a slowish pace for the rest of the race. They didn't seem to save fuel though, they were pitting as frequently as me (Fuel map 1).

I was using the Porsche with RH tires and 100%/100% power and weight (I think it is faster when BoPed) and won by 1 1/2 min. Weird given the AI's initial pace.

 

[baldgye]

Rereading this;

GOOD: Offline Content Keeps More Players Happy

​

...the fallacy of offline play in GT Sport...

 

[queleuleu]

Adjustable settings are something obvious today, except for Poly. I would love to see all the settings avalaible in the Forza 7 career mode.

 

[TonyJZX]

Adjustable settings are something obvious today, except for Poly. I would love to see all the settings avalaible in the Forza 7 career mode.

You can only change the number of laps into a fairly basic "std" or "long" mode where its 3 laps vs. 6. laps or something like that?

And of course AI level. I personally find Forza's career mode or Forza Cup to feel like an afterthought too.

 

[queleuleu]

You can only change the number of laps into a fairly basic "std" or "long" mode where its 3 laps vs. 6. laps or something like that?

And of course AI level. I personally find Forza's career mode or Forza Cup to feel like an afterthought too.

Plus damage, fuel and tyre wear.

 

[Elitekilla29]

If we had a huge track selection I would actually play this mode .

 

[05XR8]

I looked over the Calendar for the Manufacturer's Cup. Why don't we have those eight races in GT League? It alternates Gr. 4 & Gr.3. Would be so simple. Especially if it randomized the tracks after first completion.

 

[GA 52]

Mat I ask you guy's a question. In the Vision GT Trophy race 1 - I wonder why I only get to drive the Aston Martin and not my Fittipaldi and others? Anybody? Thanks for your time!

 

[TonyJZX]

Plus damage, fuel and tyre wear.

ahh but this is a given

If you're not driving full damage, fuel use and tyre wear and abs off, tc off, stm off, sim steer then "you're not really a man(™)" are you

the only concession we real men give is is ABS default on GTS