GT LOST IT'S MOJO?

[giorgos21]

I play GT series since 1998.What a blast it was back then.Great graphics,great gameplay,the most serious driving game of that time.(The real driving simulation).
Then GT2 with more cars and european cars,then gt3,great graphics,new handling,more cars and tracks,better engine sounds,then GT4 with even more cars(although i couldn't drift a car no matter how i tried), and then with ps3 along came GT5 prologue with full interior cockpit view, great graphics too and finally Ferraris and Lamborghinis
And then GT5 and GT6.We learned about premium and standard cars,the engine sounds worst than ever(in my opinion).Every other game i've played or watched last years,has more realistic sounds,Kaz was saying it is the real thing(even though sometimes you hear only the tires or the sound of the car next to you ,but not yours or sometimes nothing for the first lap).
Suddenly in GT6 i became top rank player with gold metals in all license tests(fewer tests than ever),and i could win a race with much lower PP for my car (top rank player i said).
I 've learned that if i tune my car offline it has a different behavior online(to worst).
I've learned that after a close cooperation Polyphony had with Yokohama,a road car with racing tires sucks and on a racing car with hard racing tires you can do about 6-7 laps on normal size track.
After another cooperation with KW suspension i've learned that you can make your car go with only two wheels on the ground like the movies .
THIS IS NOT A SIMULATOR ANYMORE.
Kaz do as he likes.
GT series is now more an organization than a driving game.It has the GT ACADEMY:tup:, the Vision:tup: and they are great.But Kaz don't hear players anymore.I think his vision don't go along with people requests about GT games.Maybe he is confused about what GT should be.I don't want moonwalks and the right stars position in the sky,if i don't have descent online and offline racing.
I don't enjoy GT very much anymore.This is my opinion.

PS:I'm missing the time when i was racing with a 10000 cr car(the first you could buy in GT1)for races and races, just to get money for an exhaust and i didn't get a car award for every race i won.

 

[VBR]

Cue a meme of Austin Powers with Kaz's head photoshopped in, & accompanied by a clever caption!

 

[Davoxx]

I play GT series since 1998.What a blast it was back then.Great graphics,great gameplay,the most serious driving game of that time.(The real driving simulation).
Then GT2 with more cars and european cars,then gt3,great graphics,new handling,more cars and tracks,better engine sounds,then GT4 with even more cars(although i couldn't drift a car no matter how i tried), and then with ps3 along came GT5 prologue with full interior cockpit view, great graphics too and finally Ferraris and Lamborghinis
And then GT5 and GT6.We learned about premium and standard cars,the engine sounds worst than ever(in my opinion).Every other game i've played or watched last years,has more realistic sounds,Kaz was saying it is the real thing(even though sometimes you hear only the tires or the sound of the car next to you ,but not yours or sometimes nothing for the first lap).
Suddenly in GT6 i became top rank player with gold metals in all license tests(fewer tests than ever),and i could win a race with much lower PP for my car (top rank player i said).
I 've learned that if i tune my car offline it has a different behavior online(to worst).
I've learned that after a close cooperation Polyphony had with Yokohama,a road car with racing tires sucks and on a racing car with hard racing tires you can do about 6-7 laps on normal size track.
After another cooperation with KW suspension i've learned that you can make your car go with only two wheels on the ground like the movies .
THIS IS NOT A SIMULATOR ANYMORE.
Kaz do as he likes.
GT series is now more an organization than a driving game.It has the GT ACADEMY:tup:, the Vision:tup: and they are great.But Kaz don't hear players anymore.I think his vision don't go along with people requests about GT games.Maybe he is confused about what GT should be.I don't want moonwalks and the right stars position in the sky,if i don't have descent online and offline racing.
I don't enjoy GT very much anymore.This is my opinion.

PS:I'm missing the time when i was racing with a 10000 cr car(the first you could buy in GT1)for races and races, just to get money for an exhaust and i didn't get a car award for every race i won.

I'm totally agree with you and what I can say is Kaz have no power, why ????
Because this is Board Members of PD who have the real power and we don't know them !!!
This is Board Members who decided what will be in the game or not , not KAZ !!!
Kaz can ask to board Members I would like to have this or this in the game but he can't do what he want and this is the same problem in every company !!!
Board Members are the real BOSS and in general they just care about results not about what they are doing , this is Business !!!
And the main goal of Board Members is Benefits as every company !!!!

 

[Squanto]

I'm totally agree with you and what I can say is Kaz have no power, why ????
Because this is Board Members of PD who have the real power and we don't know them !!!
This is Board Members who decided what will be in the game or not , not KAZ !!!
Kaz can ask to board Members I would like to have this or this in the game but he can't do what he want and this is the same problem in every company !!!
Board Members are the real BOSS and in general they just care about results not about what they are doing , this is Business !!!
And the main goal of Board Members is Benefits as every company !!!!

here are the Boardmembers: http://www.polyphony.co.jp/english/
I think you should know them ... they have real functions in Sony and SCE

 

[Davoxx]

here are the Boardmembers: http://www.polyphony.co.jp/english/
I think you should know them ... they have real functions in Sony and SCE

Thanks for this informations , so 4 board members !!!

 

[Davoxx]

here are the Boardmembers: http://www.polyphony.co.jp/english/
I think you should know them ... they have real functions in Sony and SCE

Andrew HouseDirector
Shuhei YoshidaDirector

They are the real "BOSS" , KAZ is a sort of standard bearer !!!

 

[MasamuneDate]

I doubt that any of those "boardmembers" have a major influence on the design of the game. GT was considered Playstation's greatest exclusive so, naturaly, along with being a party that stood with Sony since the beginning of Playstation, they have a very close relationship. But Kaz probably have green light from the company to do everything he wants. Well, that's just my opinion.

PS: If GT6's sales failed miserably, they'd have to do something like Square-Enix did with Final Fantasy XIV. Almost redesigning the game from the start, thus the birth of FFXIV: A Realm Reborn

 

[giorgos21]

 

[Davoxx]

I doubt that any of those "boardmembers" have a major influence on the design of the game. GT was considered Playstation's greatest exclusive so, naturaly, along with being a party that stood with Sony since the beginning of Playstation, they have a very close relationship. But Kaz probably have green light from the company to do everything he wants. Well, that's just my opinion.

PS: If GT6's sales failed miserably, they'd have to do something like Square-Enix did with Final Fantasy XIV. Almost redesigning the game from the start, thus the birth of FFXIV: A Realm Reborn

Maybe you right but I don't hope so because if Kaz have the green light he is doing some bull@")&<)<'( . He don't listen us ... You know what I mean. lol .

 

[Scaff]

Andrew HouseDirector
Shuhei YoshidaDirector

They are the real "BOSS" , KAZ is a sort of standard bearer !!!

That's pretty much how its always been, given that PD has always been either an internal Sony studio or a whole owned subsidiary of Sony.

In fact if anything Kaz has gained more control over the years, given that at the start he was simply an internal studio head and he is now the President of PD (and if you knew cooperate structure you would know that sits above the board).

Kaz has far more influence over PD and the GT series that he ever has, and as far as losing its mojo goes, that happened for GT5 in my opinion and if anything GT6 has got a lot of that back.

 

[giorgos21]

As i said,i believe Kaz has lost his goal.

 

[MasamuneDate]

As i said,i believe Kaz has lost his goal.

I'd say his goal is pretty different from "our" taste, that's all. He didn't lose his goal. Some of us like what he's doing, some don't, simple as that.

 

[Davoxx]

That's pretty much how its always been, given that PD has always been either an internal Sony studio or a whole owned subsidiary of Sony.

In fact if anything Kaz has gained more control over the years, given that at the start he was simply an internal studio head and he is now the President of PD (and if you knew cooperate structure you would know that sits above the board).

Kaz has far more influence over PD and the GT series that he ever has, and as far as losing its mojo goes, that happened for GT5 in my opinion and if anything GT6 has got a lot of that back.

Thanks Scaff with all this information ,

The president of a company is not the person who have the real power as a President of a Country this is what I am talking about.
He is chosen by the Boardmembers and can be dismiss whenever they wants.

In fact i'm trying to apply all I have learn during my last 4 years in model company to PD without a "fan" approach but as a Business analysis. I'm actually in Msc Master in business and Administration so I know a little how a company work and what are there main goals.

As I said earlier and in others threads, this is just business and what they are looking for is a maximum of results with a minimum of investment like every company.
PD is in a Monopoly position this is a fact, so whatever they produce (good/bad) customers will purchase it.
They can do this because as I said they are in monopoly position due to no serious competitor in the Playstation platform.
Next year a Serious competitor will introduce Project CARS and Gran turismo as Forza will have to improve theme self in order to keep there results.
This is business , this is simple, no fillings, no charity, just results and this is why PD was created.
If the game was created only for the happiness of gamers and car lovers, PD will be a Association instead of a Company.

My personal point of view is they can thanks God to have a History and also a really good Marketing department.

Regards.

 

[MasamuneDate]

Thanks Scaff with all this information ,

The president of a company is not the person who have the real power as a President of a Country this is what I am talking about.
He is chosen by the Boardmembers and can be dismiss whenever they wants.

In fact i'm trying to apply all I have learn during my last 4 years in model company to PD without a "fan" approach but as a Business analysis. I'm actually in Msc Master in business and Administration so I know a little how a company work and what are there main goals.

As I said earlier and in others threads, this is just business and what they are looking for is a maximum of results with a minimum of investment like every company.
PD is in a Monopoly position this is a fact, so whatever they produce (good/bad) customers will purchase it.
They can do this because as I said they are in monopoly position due to no serious competitor in the Playstation platform.
Next year a Serious competitor will introduce Project CARS and Gran turismo as Forza will have to improve theme self in order to keep there results.
This is business , this is simple, no fillings, no charity, just results and this is why PD was created.
If the game was created only for the happiness of gamers and car lovers, PD will be a Association instead of a Company.

My personal point of view is they can thanks God to have a History and also a really good Marketing department.

Regards.

One of GT's greatest advantage is car count, and most of these cars are far from PS4's standards. I fear PD will have rough times updating their roster of cars for next gen, especially since their greatest competitor (Forza) have introduced cars with a ridiculously high amount of polygons, which forced them to reduce drasticaly their car count, but their quality is superb. Seeing PS2 models in the PS4 it's going to be grotesque.
Seeing PS2 models on the PS3 is one of the things that made GT "lose it's mojo" for me, imagine on PS4.

In that case, their marketing department will have to do miracles.

 

[Scaff]

Thanks Scaff with all this information ,

The president of a company is not the person who have the real power as a President of a Country this is what I am talking about.
He is chosen by the Boardmembers and can be dismiss whenever they wants.

As can also happen to any board member. As long as the president of a company is achieving against set targets (which we are not privy to) then the board are goung to follow his lead, to date nothing at all indicates that has not been allowed to happen.

 

[Brutaka]

I may be wrong but sometimes I feel that people hold the previous games too high compared to the PS3 era ones. It may be because of nostalgia. It is true that the older GT games were great fun but they all had their share of problems like these last two had. We're taking a lot of things we have in these two for granted that weren't in the others. Its the curse of sequels, everyone wants twice as much content in half the time.

 

[RC45]

GT have not lost its mojo - Kaz lost his hearing.

Only a tone deaf person could approve a modern game with such pitiful sound.

 

[nursemorph]

I don't think Kaz, and by extension GT, has lost it's mojo...I just think their priorities are different from what some of the paying public would prefer. We would prefer better sounds, more distinctive and individual cars, more tracks, better AI and on and on.....PD want realistic night skies, moon buggy driving (I still think that was a "It's possible to do, so let's do it...it's not needed but we can show off our skills"), more Japanese cars (unsurprising and understandable really) and so on. Different priorities but, ultimately, it is their game and they will succeed or fail by it.

A lot of the expansion into Nascar, Moon buggies, Red Bull etc, I suspect, is something to entice casual gamers, new gamers and absent gamers into the game (hence the "We will pretend you have never driven a car before in a game and so will select a car for you and baby you through the start"...though is it really any different than a lot of games which have a tutorial?). I also think the move to, generally, making the game easier, is that people these days get bored quicker so they need something which will not take 600 hours to complete (it took me about 30 hours of driving to gold everything so far).

Overall, the expansion has been too quick and too much added in the last 2 installments of the game. Should they go back to the basics of what made GT great in the past (For me, GT4 was the best..also the first I played)? Yes, probably...but, in all likelihood, they will continue on this path and continue to expand further and further (especially given the extra power and speed of the PS4).

On a side note, thank you for this topic...it has taught me something new today: namely, that PD is a subsidiary of Sony and began life as an in-house development entity. I always assumed that PD was a wholly independent company who simply had an exclusivity agreement with Sony. Knowing this certainly explains who was to blame for the introduction of microtransactions (but that's a discussion for another topic)

 

[MSTER232]

View attachment 104680

 

[Squanto]

My thoughts on this from a "Sony Marketing" point of view ...
(and yes i played DC already so i know its more arcade then sim ... but were talking marketeer point of view here)

We all know the PS4 launch line-up had some troubles .... DriveClub got delayed (and Watchdogs also) ...
What could SCE do to keep the (racing) masses happy from their point of view ... they hád to launch GT6 close to PS4 market introduction to keep the Racing Sim Fans busy and distract them from the absence of DC ... Yes it still is on PS3... but hey it'll keep them busy ... And the early-adopters can get NFS-Rivals ... So let's rush GT6 ... because initially it had a 2-2014 introduction planned for GT6 ...
(this was decided about 07 /2013) so Kaz was asked to launch an early version of GT6 ... (we all feel the consequences of this)

Of course GT7 has been in development on PS4 as long as Knack, Watchdogs or Driveclub ... they surely have split teams for this with decreasing staff for GT6 ... so updates on GT6 take time ... with gradually less staff to support GT6 ... they are already pulling the plug on GT5 this spring which is quite early .. so more staff can be used to the latest developments (GT6/7) ....

As we all complain about minor issues about GT ... I've tried to approach it from a developers/higher force perspective ... I think it nicely distracts some fans of being negative about the launch line-up ... we don't mind the poor line-up ... GT6 is coming next week for PS3 ...

I was at the pre-launch presentation in october 2013 for PS4 and was surprised then about the number of PS3 games shown and demoed there : GT6, Beyond:two souls, The last of Us, Rain ...
now about three months further in time I get what they were doing ... spreading the attention of all different types of core gamers ... FPS ... Racing .. Sports ... Adventure ... Casual ... they all get their share ... although it was on different platforms ... (PS3/PS4) it was enough spread....

So i think the pressure on Kaz was high to come with an early release of GT6 ... they wanted Sony to win this holiday season battle of 2013

... and i guess they did ...

now we are just the fans of 1 franchise ... and we only represent a minor part in this big landscape ... so we got served pretty well i guess ...

Also I think nowadays Kaz can launch any date ... but Sony calls the shots ... we all heard him say it during the launch of GT5.... "it's out of my hands" ... and I expect he is telling the truth .... Kaz can develop what and when he likes ... but Sony decides when to launch ....

 

[David M]

I think these are all a mix of valid criticisms of GT6, but also gamers being rather spoilt these days, expecting 'the moon on a stick'. After all, isn't GT6 just about the best console racer around?? This being the case, people should chill out a bit, with the avalanche of criticisms!(i'm thinking mainly of other, more negative threads, on this site).

Also, aren't GT6/5 VERY complex and comprehensive games?? All those tracks, all those cars, car settings, nuanced tracks, etc, etc, etc. And all from a small(ish) team in Japan. It's certainly not without fault, but overall GT6 is a fantastic game. I haven't even managed to complete Grand Theft Auto 5, because of GT dominance of my PS3!

The '10 Laps of Ascari' is my all time favourite race of the GT series(been playing since GT1 in'97). Wicked track, good payout, and a MASSIVE range of road cars to use!

 

[giorgos21]

I think these are all a mix of valid criticisms of GT6, but also gamers being rather spoilt these days, expecting 'the moon on a stick'. After all, isn't GT6 just about the best console racer around?? This being the case, people should chill out a bit, with the avalanche of criticisms!(i'm thinking mainly of other, more negative threads, on this site).

Also, aren't GT6/5 VERY complex and comprehensive games?? All those tracks, all those cars, car settings, nuanced tracks, etc, etc, etc. And all from a small(ish) team in Japan. It's certainly not without fault, but overall GT6 is a fantastic game. I haven't even managed to complete Grand Theft Auto 5, because of GT dominance of my PS3!

The '10 Laps of Ascari' is my all time favourite race of the GT series(been playing since GT1 in'97). Wicked track, good payout, and a MASSIVE range of road cars to use!

Man.I love GT series.I grew up with it.I'm really not trying to be negative about GT6.I still think it's a great game (have not tried others yet for that reason),and i believe GT is way more than just a game,but i'm getting tired and disappointed with all these bugs and errors.I believe(even with all the new additions)that GT5 and GT6 don't have the ''soul'' of the old games,even if this sound weird.

 

[TX Executioner]

I think one of the biggest problems with PD these days is the "We'll fix it tomorrow" mindset. Patches are great and all, but to release a game without so many promised features and bugs shows very little regard for their customers. With GT5 it took them over a year to give us a game that was really worth the money we paid and GT6 looks like more of the same. While I do appreciate their constant work to improve the game for us, many of the early patches shouldn't have been necessary in the first place. Take not being able to reset car settings back to default for example, how is that not part of the game upon release? But don't worry, I'm sure they will fix it tomorrow.

 

[xiando]

Problem is, that's how it is all over. Consumer demands exceed the ability of the technically literate to deliver new neato content in the timeframes impatient consumers want them. Sorry, but the expectations simply exceed capability.

"Leonardo, I need this painting of Mona done in 1 week. No arguments or I'll launch a public relations war against you. Next sucker up please ...someone call Mr Angelo in for a sit down so we can explain our expectations in no uncertain terms as we did with Mr daVinci... BTW, has that laggard Einstein checked in yet? We need to corral his speculative interests when we're done with these lazy artist types...

sincerely,

Mr Stalin"

 

[Awong124]

 

[TX Executioner]

They claim that work on GT6 was started before GT5 even came out, so plenty of time to at least get the basic features in place that make GT what it is and they have failed at that. To expect a studio that only releases one major game every three to four years to be able to do that isn't really asking that much from them I don't think.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I think one of the biggest problems with PD these days is the "We'll fix it tomorrow" mindset. Patches are great and all, but to release a game without so many promised features and bugs shows very little regard for their customers. With GT5 it took them over a year to give us a game that was really worth the money we paid and GT6 looks like more of the same. While I do appreciate their constant work to improve the game for us, many of the early patches shouldn't have been necessary in the first place. Take not being able to reset car settings back to default for example, how is that not part of the game upon release? But don't worry, I'm sure they will fix it tomorrow.

I agree and the whole, "that's the best they can do, consumers want too much, too fast" argument is a lot of bunk. It's fairly obvious to me and should be to anyone else, that there's a basic disconnect between PD and people who actually play the game. Some test runs with gamers who aren't PD employees would sort most bugs out before the game is released. There's just no excuse for having multiple tuning sheets as we did in GT5, but without the ability to copy and paste settings from one to the other as we had in GT5. Why would you take away map scaling? It was an invaluable tool for clean racing, one quick glance at the map and you knew who was around you and where. Why doesn't camber work? Does nobody at PD know how to tune a car? Why are the gear ratio sliders so crappy? They were great in GT5, why change it and make it suck?

If you can't get the easy, simple, quick stuff done right...I guess expecting them to get the larger more important things like AI, Sound etc. right is asking too much.

 

[Maddens Raiders]

Just finished a killer 4 hour session with mates at Sarthe running LMP's and GT cars. 10 lappers w/ weather ~ time ~ fast wear / petrol ~ mandatory 1 pit. Saved every replay. I'd say the mojo is not lost at all for any of us. Of course we're too busy racing to notice if it had left in the first place. Happy motoring guys.

 

[Imari]

We all know the PS4 launch line-up had some troubles .... DriveClub got delayed (and Watchdogs also) ...
What could SCE do to keep the (racing) masses happy from their point of view ... they hád to launch GT6 close to PS4 market introduction to keep the Racing Sim Fans busy and distract them from the absence of DC ... Yes it still is on PS3... but hey it'll keep them busy ... And the early-adopters can get NFS-Rivals ... So let's rush GT6 ... because initially it had a 2-2014 introduction planned for GT6 ...
(this was decided about 07 /2013) so Kaz was asked to launch an early version of GT6 ... (we all feel the consequences of this)

I'm pretty sure the Driveclub announcement was after the GT6 release date announcement...

 

[Squanto]

I'm pretty sure the Driveclub announcement was after the GT6 release date announcement...

Me too ... but that doesn't mean they didn't know ...