GT-R'07 VS Corvette Z06'06 (Both Adjusted) = 4WD destroys FR

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It doesn't surprise me that a GT-R "outperforms" a Z06, but I also concur that the "test" methodology use by the OP is bunk.

It's bunk because for the most part, it's an "apple versus oranges" comparison.

Yes, the goal of "racing" is to be the fastest , but the goal of "driving" is to connect with the car and enjoy the drive

I don't have "numbers" to support my personal experience, because "numbers" simply can't measure everything. The inherent AWD v. RWD difference caused me to drive the cars differently. AWD was "easier" to drive, as it afford me a little more risk-taking opportunity, but I didn't get as much reward and satisfaction. RWD is "harder", and forced me to be a little more reserved, but had a blast.

(Suffice it to say, a car driven with more risks will yield quicker laps than a car driven reservedly.)

In the end, does it mater is the Vette is a couple seconds slower around a track - if it's a more challenging drive that rewards the driver with more "fun"?

Answer for yourself.

Peace...
 
sk0pe
In their country they have never heard a bad word spoken about them, so when they step into the big wide world of the internet, it invokes these reactions. Hope you learned something.
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No latent racism in this thread please.

I don't believe I've seen a huge amount of OMFG, Corvette! USA! USA! in this thread... except from you.

Let's keep this on topic?

sk0pe
What i wanna know about the AWD and YAW systems etc in the GTR's and Evo's is if you turn Traction Control,SRF,ASM off , do these real life technologies still function?
Like its either YAW or AYC in the Evo X that they changed in one the patches so obviously they actual car's electronic traction systems are modelled but what affect does turning aids off have with these system's ??

Anyone out there bothered to test or know?
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from what I've heard of pre-update GT-Rs... before the whole overblown brouhaha over "Launch Mode" caused Nissan to reprogram the cars with a gentler (but faster) non-VDC defeating launch program, turning off VDC made the GT-R better on the race track.

What really makes the GT-R and EVO X great on racetrack isn't the TCS or Stability Control (there is no SRF in real life, unless some manufacturer has found a system to spray glue onto the tires once they start sliding...) but the electronically controlled differentials.

The differentials and the AYC (or whatever Nissan calls theirs) definitely help stabilize corner entry and optimize corner exit past the limits of adhesion, but the GT-R's other party tricks are an ultra-quick transmission, a suspension system that's been tuned obsessively on the racetrack to extract every last iota of performance, along with tires that are very, very, very sticky.

In fact, some testers who've tried out the latest GT-R say that the extra stiffness Nissan has put into that car has become counterproductive. The old car had a lot of grip because it was supple and heavy, giving the tires lots of traction... the new one skips over the road a bit too much.
 
Maybe his test is a bit flawed, but it doesn't matter cause the GTR is still going to win. I love my Mustangs, but they don't have anything for the GTR without extensive suspension mods.

American muscle cars could definitely learn a thing or two from the GTR and various cars from europe. Main issue is this would cause our beloved muscle cars to become very expensive and less affordable.

Nobodies mentioned yet that not only is the GTR faster, but the creature comforts inside the car blow away the other two.
 
Hows about you test both cars stock no changes to either car and see who wins
 
Before everyne gets out of hand with the GTR flu let's not forget there are two Domestic cars that have beaten up on the GTR both at the Ring and stateside. Why do some feel the domestics need to learn from the GTR? The are doing the go fast game using a different formula that is all.

The 08 ACR, for instance, has demolished the GTR on VIR 4.2 mile racetrack by over 6 secs a lap and on the Ring. The ZR1 also beat the GTR by 3 secs on VIR. So lets not get silly thinking that the GTR automatically dominates ANYTHING RWD like I'm seeing from some of these posts and the post starter. It will beat some but it will get humbled by others like the ones mentioned. Any setup can be made to beat the other. The venue is also a factor that plays to the strengths or hamper either platform.
 
I decided to run my own, more appropriate tests after seeing this thread for the sake of those asking for it rather than my own amusement. Note now that my test is not supposed to reflect any real life performance (there's no reason to take my results as a real world indicator or vice versa, let's keep it strictly GT5).

Brief
My test was also ran on Laguna Seca, mainly to use for comparison to the 'stock' lap times set by the OP in this test but I decided to run the ZR1 and Spec V versions of the Corvette and GTR respectively as in GT5 they are much closer on price and also represent the top spec version of their model ranges (available in GT5). Also note I would consider myself a reasonable average driver, using a G25 (cockpit view) with good car control though not the fastest lap times. I ran each car for a total of 5 or so laps a piece, and will take their best laps as the results but will also include discussion and conclusions which I can take from my short, though reasonably thorough test of these 2 cars on Laguna Seca. Only modification to the cars, was aftermarket wheels as my ZR1 already had some fitted and so the SpecV for the same wheels for consistency with both cars running Sports Hard compound tyres. Edit: It's also important to note I used paddles for the SpecV and full clutch and H pattern for the ZR1 in the interest of realism.

Results
Nissan GT-R SpecV '09: 1:32.915
Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 (C6) '09: 1:33.773

Conclusion
The differences are of course going to be obvious, we all know the ZR1 high power output will help it fight back against the SpecV on circuits with more high speed flat out sections (Nordschleife) but whether this would be enough to gain back what is lost from the difficulty in getting that power down effectively (at my driver level) I would not know without further testing.

The ZR1, I find, is actually not a particularly difficult car to drive in GT though that is certainly not because there is a lack of oversteer. There's plenty of it, particularly coming out of the lower speed (2nd gear for the ZR1) turns of Laguna. It deals well generally well with the circuit however, turn in is relatively crisp considering and once the traction is there the tower of V8 power will pull you much better then the GT-R can manage however the main weakness is simply putting it all down coming out of the turns. It was however a more enjoyable experience, though more laps were wasted making mistakes as the ZR1 is nowhere near as forgiving where the GT-R will quickly allow you to resume your lap.

In great contrast the GT-R would fire itself out of the low speed turns with extreme traction, making up for the lack of top end power when compared to the extra 100+ ponies that the ZR1 packs as there aren't enough places on the circuit to really utilise that force. Direction changes felt quicker in the GT-R also and generally the car would react quicker to inputs. The GT-R is not without fault however, it did have a tendency to understeer if to much power was applied to early but this trait is easy to avoid and once you drive the correct lines for such AWD power the lap times quickly tumble whereas my speed increased more progressively in the ZR1, I made a big jump towards the end of my GT-R session due to needing to adjust after being in such a different handling car. Also of note is the GT-Rs double clutch shifting made it easier to concentrate on your lines but I feel that this difference alone would not make up the difference between lap times, my clutched lap with the ZR1 felt solid with no mis-shifts.

Ultimately I found the ZR1 was more exciting, but there's no real argument that in most peoples hands the GT-R will be more consistent and ultimately faster for performance driving. However if we're talking bang for buck the extra premium on the SpecV compared to the '07 GT-R is simply not worth it unless you have cash to burn.

Which would I buy? The GT-R SpecV if I wanted to win, the ZR1 if I wanted to go for a drive solo or the '07 GT-R if I was tight on cash (you could easily modifiy it up with the spare cash to be a quicker machine at the same price as the others stock).

Could the ZR1 be faster on different tracks or with a better driver? Probably yes on different tracks but here at Laguna I don't think, though I may be wrong, that many drivers would be quicker in the ZR1.

I would note however for tuning purposes, as a driver who prefers to keep most road cars to that, I have found much enjoyment from a SpecV at around 600bhp (with all the relevant handling and weight loss treatment) on SS tyres as a road legal time attack machine.
 
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That was far more helpful than the original post. Thanks! 👍
 
Dragonistic
snip
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Take note Gran_Turismo, this is how you do a proper test. He CLEARLY outlines how he set up the test, he separates his opinions and results, and provides reasons. He also doesn't make cocky statements that are barely connected at all to the test results, and only serve to offend with a false sense of authority.
 
its really not a fair test because of the 10% of front grab the GTR has. this test means that your running two cars with the same stats but one has 10% advantage. if you where to even up by PP instead of weight/power then it would be a fair test.
 
Over past week Have been running variety of cars with Sports Hard tires on a number of tracks due to PSN issues. After about 7-8 laps was able to get a sub one minute time in GTR due to it being so easy to drive thanks to 4WD and the massive amount of grip mid corner and on exit. With the Corvette really had to work alot harder probably doing about twice as many laps and still being about one second slower than GTR. Interestingly best time in R8 was only about 1/10 faster than Corvette.

Will admit that although GT-R is fast its not as much fun to drive as Corvette which when your really pushing it feels like its just one step away from an having an accident. That adrenaline rush is probably missing from GT-R which just fells too well planted to track.

Tsukuba
Stock Nissan GT-R ‘07 59.7xx
Stock Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 1'0.8

both times set using Sport Hards ABS-1, No other aids
 
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This test should be invalid. Whenever you pit a 4WD car vs a RWD car. The 4WD will have the advantage of traction, this means better cornering grip, acceleration, corner exit acceleration etc. The flaw of a 4WD car is usually it's weight due to having extra driveshafts and a transfer box.

By bringing down the power and increasing the weight of the Z06, you have taken away all the advantages for this FR car to compete against a 4WD. Only the GT-R's traction advantage remains which dominates any FR around the same weight. When you increase a car's weight, it's braking ability, cornering ability, and acceleration ability is impaired.

I'm not trying to be biased here, the GT-R is an amazing car But it's one weakness is it's weight. 1700+kg is like the weight of a minivan, but still pull great lap times means there's a lot of gizmos in the car that will allow the driver to easily drive the car to it's peak. While the Z06 requires more out of the driver. You definitely will feel that the GT-R is the faster car because you can easily push it more. You should also be reminded that PD has very close ties with the R35 so they're definitely going to put a little extra in it.
 
Odd test. Both cars are within the same class why did you have to handicap the Z06?

Why not have a drag race with a Z06 vs a Honda Civic where the Z06 drives in reverse illogically making it FWD...and then declare the Civic the winner!
 
What gets me about the OP is that the GT-R is known to be faster in real life than the Z06 most of the time. Its not huge news. So I don't understand what slowing the Corvette down accomplishes other than making the GT-R look faster than it should in comparison.
It also basically ruins any credibility the test might have had, and it makes some of the comments about the handling of the Corvette come off as painfully uninformed. I'm not particularly surprised that the Corvette pushes like a dump truck, no, because you added nearly 200 pounds to it.


That the OP decided to end this test with a snippy comment about how American cars suck because they are backwards dinosaurs makes me roll my eyes straight out of my skull.
If I compared the '97 Camaro to a '98 300ZX in game, perhaps the two most technologically opposite cars in the game sold at the same time, but decided that I could only use 1st and 2nd gear in the Z, does that make the Z a terrible, obsolete car? No. It makes the testing parameters completely invalid.
 
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Funny thing is, to give them even PPs, you don't even have to lower the power of the Corvette. At the same weight, at stock power, the GT-R has a higher PP rating than the Corvette, because of its spread of torque.

To balance PP between GT-R and Corvette, you either have to lower the power of the GT-R, or raise the power of the Vette. Neither is advantageous on Sports Hard tires because too much power on the Vette leads to more wheelspin, and too little power on the GT-R makes it "feel" heavier and more understeery.

I went for as few power mods with the Z06 as possible. Concentrating on those that boost midrange more (like the ECU and Sports Headers) then lowering the PP one measly point to meet the GT-R.

Interestingly, with Stage III lightening and a carbon bonnet, a GTR 07 weighs exactly the same as the premium Corvette Z06.

This way, no excessive ballast is used and no excessive power adjustments are used. This is important as this skews the test. With 100 kilograms of ballast strategically placed, you can tweak the Vette's line. With too much power limiting on the GT-R side, you will drop the GT-R's top speed down the straights.

Testing:

Laguna Seca Forward configuration
Grip loss off-track: Real
Sports Hard Tires
All assists off, ABS at 1. Brake balance stock.
550PP - chosen since this is a restriction that people are likely to be running online.
About 10 laps of practice, DS3, Controller Sensitivity 0

GT-R 07 (Stage 3 lightening, Carbon bonnet, oil change)
550PP, 495 HP, 1425 KG (4kg ballast at 0/0 to balance out slight power increase after break-in)
- 1:33.542

Z06 06 (ECU, Sports Filter)
550PP, 535 HP, 1421 KG
- 1:36.261

Impressions:

GT-R 07: Lightening doesn't do all that much for the GT-R except make it accelerate a bit faster. Handling feel is much the same as stock. And the lap times aren't all that different, either.

It gains time over the Vette because of sharper turn-in, the ability to put power down sooner after the corner exit (if you're cornering on the edge, booting the throttle midcorner will cause understeer or oversteer, depending on the situation) and a huge advantage in stability over kerbs, on- or off-throttle... which allows you to use more of the track.

There's a 10-15 km/h advantage in the long sweepers as you can cut a straighter line. The Vette is faster at the top of each gear, but the GT-R has better mid-range punch (despite lower peak torque figures) and the 7-speed shifts faster.

Z06 06: There is a lot more understeer than in the GT-R off-throttle. It doesn't seem as keep to respond to throttle-lift. Also more unstable in transitions and with more oversteer on-throttle.

A good lap consists of holding a slightly higher gear than optimal to minimize wheelspin, setting up very early for the sharper curves and punching the gas only when the wheels are straight. Around longer corners, you want to edge the car out into understeer first, then trim corner balance with part-throttle application.

It took a while to get the hang of this car, and I am still possibly losing about five-tenths on the long uphill sweeper because I can't get the car settled right. But even after you've managed to tame the wheelspin, the GT-R just gives you a ridiculously large window within each corner where you can squirt a little more speed out with the throttle that the Z06 has no chance of catching up.

---

Obviously the difference will be smaller with a wheel and pedals and much smaller still when you move up to Sports Soft or even Racing Tires, and with suspension and drivetrain tuning, the Vette should become more stable, but the GT-R will always retain its better adjustability and user-friendliness no matter what level of modification you perform.
 
Road & Track published a comparison test of 2010 ZR1 Corvette, 2011 Nissan GT-R, and 2010 Porsche 911 about 3 weeks ago.

Interestingly enough, it declares the 2010 Porsche as the 'winner' even though it has the slowest lap time. Too bad we have no Porches in GT5 to test it out!

The last sentence of the article sums it up well: 'It’s remarkable that three very different sports cars can deliver such similar top-notch performance.'

I haven't had a chance to do any GT5 testing myself as I have been working on my WRS qualifier.

I thought GTP community would enjoy the real-life comparison test. Here is the article: 2010 Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 vs 2011 Nissan GT-R Premium vs 2010 Porsche 911 Turbo
 
I'm surprised what this thread has turned into. Glad to see people doing their own test, with results similar to mine.

Thank you Niky. Glad you did yours the way you did and pretty much had the same outcome as me, but using a different method.

For the people still bashing me and telling me to do a "proper test", I already did the stock test a long time ago and edited the times in the OP.
 
Well, I already knew going into it that the GT-R was going to win in any balanced test simply due to the traction and stock suspension/tire advantage. I just wanted to show the two in a scenario you would most likely find online... both cars set up for a PP balanced race.
 
I wouldn't say that. The ZR1 easily competes with Ferrari's & other European cars. The new Viper coming out will be even more better then before. It's on par with the ZR1.
 
It can compete in terms of performance. But their build quality and technology used suck
 
Comparing gtr to z06 is the same as comparing m5 to 300c srt8. The technology being used is different
 
Sorry for removing some posts, but throwaway insults about the Original Poster, Japanese cars and or American cars aren't kosher. Feel free to debate about it, but contentless posts go into the dust bin.

-

300C and M5? Completely different? So the 300C isn't based off a German Mercedes chassis, then? :rolleyes:

The Z06... well, I'm not going to defend GM's build quality, as Corvettes do have their niggles, but in terms of technology, it's up there.

Getting 500 hp out of any engine is an impressive feat. What the Corvette motor lacks in terms of imrpessive hp/liter numbers it makes up for in hp/pound numbers.

LS-series engines are incredibly light and compact for the amount of horsepower and torque they put out. And they're durable, to boot. So much so that many drifters are now actually putting them in their drift cars, because these naturally aspirated mills are responsive, strong and light... and they sit low in the engine bay, thanks to the compact heads.

The rest of the Corvette is nothing to sneeze at. Okay, maybe the fiberglass body panels will ruffle if you sneeze on them, and the fiberglass tops suck at staying on at over 100 mph... but the Corvette has a sophisticated and ultra-compact fully independent rear suspension with a transverse leaf spring acting as both spring and anti-roll bar. It's not quite the perfect arrangement, but it's smart, and it works.
 
deadcat777
It can compete in terms of performance. But their build quality and technology used suck
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In the end they are all over priced gas guzzlers.
 
saturn01
That was far more helpful than the original post. Thanks! 👍
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Zenith013
Take note Gran_Turismo, this is how you do a proper test. He CLEARLY outlines how he set up the test, he separates his opinions and results, and provides reasons. He also doesn't make cocky statements that are barely connected at all to the test results, and only serve to offend with a false sense of authority.
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What I did forget to mention (and will edit in now as well as here) is for my ZR1 vs SpecV test I used the clutch for the ZR1 and paddles on the GT-R in the interest of realism. I feel I'm confident enough with the clutch to say it didn't make all the difference, but a couple of tenths would be shaved were I have used paddles also. Ultimately the ZR1 comes stock with a clutch however, so I feel it's only fair the GT-R keeps it's advantage from the double clutch system it has.
 
Also, Z06 is proper old-fashioned manual, whereas GT-R has the fancy dual clutch paddleshifter job that swaps gears without upsetting the chassis or cutting the power delivery. That alone would be enough to match the Z06, bu the AWD adds the traction which eventually leads to the point where the driver of GT-R can start applying throttle far sooner than the driver in Z06, without needing to fear the rear end stepping out violently. Yes, it might step out of the line, but not in the manner it would in a Z06.
 
niky
300C and M5? Completely different? So the 300C isn't based off a German Mercedes chassis, then? :rolleyes:
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Yes, its is based on the e-class, some say the worst chassis in merc for a long time.
 
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stop hating, GT-R is a better car no matter what. less hp and more weight and it is still in the ZR1 class.

They see the GR-R rolling, they're hating...
 
MAidioPT
stop hating, GT-R is a better car no matter what. less hp and more weight and it is still in the ZR1 class.

They see the GR-R rolling, they're hating...
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There hasn't been a single person in this thread who has said the things you are implying have been said.
 
Dragonistic
I decided to run my own, more appropriate tests after seeing this thread for the sake of those asking for it rather than my own amusement. Note now that my test is not supposed to reflect any real life performance (there's no reason to take my results as a real world indicator or vice versa, let's keep it strictly GT5).

Brief
My test was also ran on Laguna Seca, mainly to use for comparison to the 'stock' lap times set by the OP in this test but I decided to run the ZR1 and Spec V versions of the Corvette and GTR respectively as in GT5 they are much closer on price and also represent the top spec version of their model ranges (available in GT5). Also note I would consider myself a reasonable average driver, using a G25 (cockpit view) with good car control though not the fastest lap times. I ran each car for a total of 5 or so laps a piece, and will take their best laps as the results but will also include discussion and conclusions which I can take from my short, though reasonably thorough test of these 2 cars on Laguna Seca. Only modification to the cars, was aftermarket wheels as my ZR1 already had some fitted and so the SpecV for the same wheels for consistency with both cars running Sports Hard compound tyres. Edit: It's also important to note I used paddles for the SpecV and full clutch and H pattern for the ZR1 in the interest of realism.

Results
Nissan GT-R SpecV '09: 1:32.915
Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 (C6) '09: 1:33.773

Conclusion
The differences are of course going to be obvious, we all know the ZR1 high power output will help it fight back against the SpecV on circuits with more high speed flat out sections (Nordschleife) but whether this would be enough to gain back what is lost from the difficulty in getting that power down effectively (at my driver level) I would not know without further testing.

The ZR1, I find, is actually not a particularly difficult car to drive in GT though that is certainly not because there is a lack of oversteer. There's plenty of it, particularly coming out of the lower speed (2nd gear for the ZR1) turns of Laguna. It deals well generally well with the circuit however, turn in is relatively crisp considering and once the traction is there the tower of V8 power will pull you much better then the GT-R can manage however the main weakness is simply putting it all down coming out of the turns. It was however a more enjoyable experience, though more laps were wasted making mistakes as the ZR1 is nowhere near as forgiving where the GT-R will quickly allow you to resume your lap.

In great contrast the GT-R would fire itself out of the low speed turns with extreme traction, making up for the lack of top end power when compared to the extra 100+ ponies that the ZR1 packs as there aren't enough places on the circuit to really utilise that force. Direction changes felt quicker in the GT-R also and generally the car would react quicker to inputs. The GT-R is not without fault however, it did have a tendency to understeer if to much power was applied to early but this trait is easy to avoid and once you drive the correct lines for such AWD power the lap times quickly tumble whereas my speed increased more progressively in the ZR1, I made a big jump towards the end of my GT-R session due to needing to adjust after being in such a different handling car. Also of note is the GT-Rs double clutch shifting made it easier to concentrate on your lines but I feel that this difference alone would not make up the difference between lap times, my clutched lap with the ZR1 felt solid with no mis-shifts.

Ultimately I found the ZR1 was more exciting, but there's no real argument that in most peoples hands the GT-R will be more consistent and ultimately faster for performance driving. However if we're talking bang for buck the extra premium on the SpecV compared to the '07 GT-R is simply not worth it unless you have cash to burn.

Which would I buy? The GT-R SpecV if I wanted to win, the ZR1 if I wanted to go for a drive solo or the '07 GT-R if I was tight on cash (you could easily modifiy it up with the spare cash to be a quicker machine at the same price as the others stock).

Could the ZR1 be faster on different tracks or with a better driver? Probably yes on different tracks but here at Laguna I don't think, though I may be wrong, that many drivers would be quicker in the ZR1.

I would note however for tuning purposes, as a driver who prefers to keep most road cars to that, I have found much enjoyment from a SpecV at around 600bhp (with all the relevant handling and weight loss treatment) on SS tyres as a road legal time attack machine.
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Thanks for doing this. That is the proper way to do a test.

I was wondering if you were able to continue the test on another challenge. I'd like to see the results for a Daytona Road course, and maybe even a Cirque Le Sarth?
 
Most stupid test I have read for a while:banghead:

They are both really fast cars, even if the GT-R is faster. The problem here in Sweden is that the GT-R cost like 30k more than a Z06:tdown:

Personally I'm more impressed by the Corvette C6-gen than the GT-R, why?

Because with "old" technology they have created a really fast, reliable car, with decent fuel economy and it also has a reasonable price tag which truly is an achievement.

In the end Nissan and Chevrolet are following different philosophies, the funny thing is that the result is equivalent when we are talking about lap times:)
 
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I could've told you that.

The GT-R is a truly ridiculous car. Did a test session of various cars at 520PP at Trial Mountain. Finally came to the GT-R, it set the quickest time on the out lap. By a full two seconds. It drives itself.

Fair enough, there's no stopping technological progress, but Jesus H...I have to agree with Jeremy Clarkson, I think it's just not a lovable car.

In love with the C6. FR forever!!! The true racing warrior's choice!!!
 
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