GT Series Major Dissapoint in Tuning&Modifications Through Releases

[Exorcet]

I'm hoping that this is an exaggeration, because... well, this is just wrong.

My question wasn't "is it possible", it was "how would it harm the game?"

But putting that aside, it actually is possible. We would just need more extreme tuning than what GT currently provides us. Maybe even putting jet engines on the roof. Like I said before, I don't like the idea of the GT player being some Sunday autocross driver. The idea of having a multi-million dollar engine and chassis upgrade doesn't bother me at all.

And before someone says jet engines are unrealistic



And no, I don't think that they would ruin the spirit of the game either. The only reason I would oppose them being in the game is the time it took model such an uncommon automotive powerplant.

 

[SkateNj]

Jet engine honda odessy down the mulsanne straight

 

[NA]

Hmmmm, a vehicle that you have to drive with the doors open to feed the engine. I can only imagine the FOD potential and the complaints if PD didn't properly include it. lol

 

[DEATHSARTHE]

You know the first thing people would do if PD suddenly increased the Supras HP to 1,500hp? Compare it to the X1 lol. The second someone whips out one of these dragster Supras - the X1s will have something to play with. lol

 

[Tenacious D]

My question wasn't "is it possible", it was "how would it harm the game?"

It depends on how it worked on the track. Down straights or just flat out dragging, it wouldn't matter so much. But higher center of gravity cars just shouldn't handle curves as well as low CoG cars, like the Corvette or Veyron. I've had too many groans over Forza where there doesn't seem to be any CoG to speak of, everything seems to be focused at the wheel level, cars won't lean around turns even with civilian suspensions, AWD mods turn every car into an instant victory machine and so on.

And honestly, my fave powerband is in the 200-350hp range anyhow. The inability to break traction in an extreme horsepower machine if you overthrottle is one of the factors that's missing in many of these games. Or heck, break the car somewhere. While I'm not saying that games should do this, I do think that physics should rule this issue so that, sure, you can get a Supra or Altezza up to 1000hp. But while it will be darn fast, it isn't automatically in the same performance and handling bracket as a DTM or F1 car.

 

[Benjamin S]

Man, I don't know what you're trying to prove with that vid of your buddy at a casual event, where quite obviously he is running a car with much higher horsepower. He's litterally cruising past everyone, which would make for the most boring race event ever, if it were. Some of the other drivers were also clearly not the best, I could immediatly see that. Not to mention his pit stop after a couple minutes of racing, which wasn't to check tire pressure, but to let things cool down a bit, that's the main thing about these crazy builds... things get waay to hot over an extended time in a real race enviornment. This is exacly what PD is taking a step back with the tuning, it's just unfair if these cars could run laps around exotics endlessly.

YouTube is littered with vids like this, where one guy has the craziest build (and some applaudable driving skills) and scoots by a whole field of cars within 1 lap. This is why there is something called regulations in racing series throughout the world.

I know there are infinte amouts of aftermarket specialty engine parts you can purchase from Japan, and build the engine to these numbers, along with lots of tuning and testing. This is also true for other cars out there, but power at the wheels means nothing in the real world of racing. I'm not gonna get into it the handeling aspect, because there are more advanced suspension systems out there even in non exotics. Don't get me wrong I understand the Supra is a great handeling car, I'm a big fan of the car myself.

The point here is, while it's completely fun to own a killer Supra and also fly by Porsches and so on, it's not in PD's interest to have every car put out that much power due to the complexity of the game as a whole. Like I said, they already have a gazillion variables, with some that still need to be fine tuned. They need to simplify the programming at some point, and that point is at these questionable hp ranges for any given car that come into play. While yes, it could be achieved, but I have faith that PD have a resonable answer for this, probably along the lines of mine. Let them concentrate on modeling some more beautiful tracks and cars, as well working on the overall physics engine for GT6.

And lastly why? What's so great about having a field of nearly identical 1500hp Supras? It all boils down to driving precision and concistancy just like any other closely PP related race. It should still be about the driver in this game more than adjusting sliders. There are plenty of cars to enjoy the game in all hp ranges already. Maybe it's me but I have very little interest in virtual tuning. In RL, different story I have worked on several cars, doing complete suspension, brake upgrades, and engine mods. I'm currently working on an S13 that is completely stripped to the bone, and will house a Corvette motor in 2-3 years. Do I care if I can have the exact spec'ed S13 in GT, NO because I can walk into my garage and hop into it and take off, just like you can enjoy your 800 hp Supra and rip around.

First I like to say I like where this conversation has been going as of late, very interesting read, clear opinions on both sides, no flaming either.

What am I trying to prove? Nothing. One poster simply stated that Supra is and I quote, "miles outclassed" by the very cars that were in the vid. I was simply showing on a track that is not the case. They were racing but, every car looks like it's not racing when a Supra is on the track. I believe you could label that as "so competent on the track it's boring" huh? BTW FYI the event was for a time attack so there is no point of blocking drivers from passing, as the vid stated it was a shakedown run. It still does not take away the Supra took first place amongst those "higher classed" exotics when they were racing one at a time to see who is the fastest against the clock.

Which brings me to a good point. This Supra is a street car biased towards time attack, It was not built(engineered, tuned) for endurance racing obviously because it only needs to run a few laps at a time in a time attack. So to say it can't last is not entirely fair, because the owner didn't build it for endurance racing. Now if it were built for endurance racing, and it overheated, then we would have a story. It's not hard to build one that can last in an endurance race, you just have to build the car with that point in mind from the start to finish.

Your S13 sounds fun. Those kind of builds inspired me to build my SC400. The Chassis and suspention all come off the JZA-80 on my car- virtually identical under the skin. Thats why I stuck with the V8 instead of doing the usual and building the SC300 with the I-6.

You kinda brought up the crux of why I posted this in the first place with this sentence, "The point here is, while it's completely fun to own a killer Supra and also fly by Porsches and so on..." I can't remember a time in my life (IRL)that I had more fun then in a Supra Turbo on a track killing all these exotics lap after lap for a whole day, making all these exotic owners completley mad or jealous, what then would it mean to me to turn on my PS3 and load GT5 and expect to be able to mod a Supra to 1000hp and go murder some enzos, Lambos, konigseggs, porsches, paganis, or whatever is the exotic for the day? It brings me back to a little place of solace, where things are simple and happiness is learning to skillfully push an x button or pedal to control the beast.

When the misfortune of business took away my ability to get on the track, for years GT series was my only escape, now you want to take that away from me, or tell me that my beloved Supra can only have 725hp; that is all I am allowed to have to battle my 922hp enzo that is 200kg lighter...

That means I cannot recreate that memory when I want to, otherwise I have to pull out GT2. I don't want to do that. I want GT5 to allow me to do what I want with my car.

 

[ScouserInExile]

That means I cannot recreate that memory when I want to, otherwise I have to pull out GT2. I don't want to do that. I want GT5 to allow me to do what I want with my car.

The thing you are missing here is that PD have to set boundries within the game. Yes they could let you tune "your" Supra up to 1500bhp, but what happens when I say i want to be able to tune "my" Yaris / Vitz up to 2000bhp? It's possible in real life, so why shouldn't I be able to do it in the game?

These things need to be limited somewhere to maintain the balance of the game - if Supras could be tuned up to four-figure horsepowers, they would be overpowered in comparison to the other cars they would be competing against, so there would be little point including any other cars.

As for the horsepower dropping throughout the series, this sums up both my points nicely - in GT1, there were a couple of "go to" cars (the Skyline and the Supra being good examples of these) where you could take them on the "speedway"-type tracks and dominate agains LMP-type cars because they had rediculous HP compared to the rest of the field and you could just ride the walls and win.

Sensible descision in my book.

 

[Tenacious D]

Actually I agree with Ben S for the most part. Find the mean upper limit of all cars as far as their "reliable" and real world racing limits are, and adjust the mods accordingly. If a Mini Cooper S can be turned into a 1000hp monster that's good for more than one or two events, I say go for it. Just make the behavior realistic.

 

[ScouserInExile]

But: the thing with HP in the real world is that (to a certain point) the only limit to what a car will produce is how much money you are willing to drop. For example, Foifth Gear one ran a drag race between a Toyota Starlet and a Viper GTS - the Toyota won because of the sheer amount of cash the owner had dropped into the 1.5 litre (or possible 1.3, I can't rmemeber off the top of my head) engine.

 

[Exorcet]

These things need to be limited somewhere to maintain the balance of the game - if Supras could be tuned up to four-figure horsepowers, they would be overpowered in comparison to the other cars they would be competing against, so there would be little point including any other cars.

I don't see it. Unlimited tuning wouldn't upset balance at all, nor would it make other cars pointless.

You wouldn't have to bring a Supra to 2000 hp, and a 2000 hp Surpa would just be a 2000 hp Supra. It wouldn't be a X1, Viper, LMP, or anything else. The only thing more tuning allows is more variety.

As for the horsepower dropping throughout the series, this sums up both my points nicely - in GT1, there were a couple of "go to" cars (the Skyline and the Supra being good examples of these) where you could take them on the "speedway"-type tracks and dominate agains LMP-type cars because they had rediculous HP compared to the rest of the field and you could just ride the walls and win.

Being able to do that is perfectly fine, it is a choice of the player. And the ZR1 RM is the same thing.

 

[occasionalracer]

@Benjamin S
See, the big thing for you is recreate your personal experience of your beloved Supra. I understand it would be cool if you could replicate these specs in GT5, but now think about all the true racing teams and manufacturers throughout the world that bust their head to construct balanced machines that are reliable. How do you think they feel that their real contributions to motorsports haven't found their way into GT.

Even these days, one example comes to mind, I think last year at the annual High Speed Test track in Nardo, Italy, the Nissan GT-R's engine blew during it's run... and this is a brand-spanking new car with a V8 not even close to 1000 hp. So believing a highly tuned Supra is good for anything other than being a fun time attack machine for a couple of laps, is wrong and is something I believe the GT series wants to keep it's distance from now.

Also I can see PD is protecting some of their licenses like Ferrari for example, by not letting average sports cars keep up, as if hp is all that matters. Why would they be cool with that when everyone knows it's fictional and doesn't exist in the real world. It's clear that a 1000hp Enzo is quicker than a 1000hp Supra, so PD doesn't even need to go there, waste of time.

Let's remember this a game, and let's just remember that we should be greateful that PD is taking a realistic approach at TRYING accurately get things to real life physics with over 1000 cars. Like I said before there are so many variables for each car that are questionable in some cases still, so let them concentrate on what's important, because it's certainly not these out of this world motor tunes, that have no meaning in the international world of motorsports.

The only thing I agree with you on, is that in reality it's awesome to build an "average" sports car into a crazy fast machine, and enjoying it for it's super fun handling and power, and yes keeping up with extremely expensive sports cars built these days. That is awesome, but it's not the sames as competing in real life events with a whole bunch of regulations in each given class of performance. As well as agreeing with this..."It brings me back to a little place of solace, where things are simple and happiness is learning to skillfully push an x button or pedal to control the beast." Exactly that's what it's all about for us regular people who aren't making a living off making advancements in car layouts and mechanical engineering or winning sponsorships. I'm all cool with running all identical cars and skillfully balance the car, I mean what else do we want from a real driving simulator?

 

[DJSalajutsu]

I would be inclined to believe the Supra will be a future premium anyways, and will get much more attention in that time, but as for now, I still think it's a great car. I know it's only an example that you used, but I had a great time in it in game. It handles amazingly well for it's weight, if you can tune it well, and the torque is still SUPRA. It is a disappointment that it's a Standard car, but with 1000+ cars, that's not too bad. Forza has nothing on that. (could have picked a few better cars to be premium though)
I fail to believe it looks like a GT2 model though, that's quite exaggerated.
Just make sure to post in a request thread, that's really the best you can do.
If you've ever noticed on a replay, for many people at least, if you can physically see 12-16 premium cars running on a track, things start to get laggy, and slow, so please understand that perfecting this concept isn't the easiest task, and that they cannot cram all of the premium features for every car all at once.
The PS3's system has yet to be fully optimized to boot. So not only is there balance issues in the PP ranges and HP ranges, there are also processing issues that take priority. So it's not just the fact that some cars have seen less attention in tuning, there are also other issues that could be standing in the way. Thought adding some extra HP and torque to a supra in the coding might seem simple, it could VERY easily set off an entire list of bugs that are suddenly apparent in the game. Give it time, we all know PD is not finished with GT5, let alone the next release.

 

[SkylineObsession]

For example, Toyota Supra 93-98 max hp figures:
GT1: don't remember
GT2: 1071hp
GT3:900ish hp
GT4:850hp
GT5:725hp

In real life, the opposite is happening with the Toyota Supra 93-98-
1997- 500hp
1999-1000hp
2005- 1500hp
2011- 2000hp

100,000% agree with you. This is something i've been getting increasingly annoyed/disappointed with for years. Its the same for Skylines in the game too. In GT1 i have a 950hp or so R32 GT-R, in GT5 it can barely make it to 700hp?

I have a mate who is building a 1,500hp R32 GT-R (for drag racing and to maybe one day try break the NZ land speed record of 353km/h or so). Yes, it has had reliability problems, but when something breaks they find the cause and replace it with something better. Eventually (unless they run out of money) it'll get to the point where its semi reliable.
Video of the car in its 800hp tune (racing me in my Skyline GTS):
Its 740hp (with wheelspin) dyno run
Its 1170hp drag race (destroyed a couple of pistons after second gear, but still won the event) And after new paint job
Personally i love the videos on the net of Skylines launching like the vid above, and always try replicate it in games - but its hard to when you can't get anywhere near the same amount of HP sometimes...

Ok, I think Pd has wisely chosen to put a damper on what horsepower can be extracted out of each car to IMPROVE the overall experience and realism of the game. Your example of these one off tuned Supras and many many others tuned rides that reach ridicules horsepower is just not realistic in a controlled racing environment.

- Realism? There are likely thousands of high hp Skyline's, Supra's Mitsubishi GTO's etc around the world now. Are they not real?
- One off's? See my comment above...
- Not realistic in a controlled racing environment? Who says we want the high HP for racing? We could want them for top speed runs, ships and giggles, or for time attack events. There's heaps of 800/900hp Skylines/Supras etc which compete in Time Attack battles in Japan.

Okay, you will buy Supra in GT5 and mod it to death (2000hp) and WHAT'S NEXT? You will drive it for like 20 minutes then "meh! next..."

But it'll be a fun 20 minutes. It could be just like the TVR Speed 12 when you modify it, no traction until fourth or fifth gear. Useless for very competitive racing, but great for top speed runs and for FUN.

You could (as i have done a few times) enter your 1020hp Speed 12 against race cars that only have a max of 500hp. Walkover, right? Turn off traction control etc and it won't usually be a walkover at all. Generally it takes a few gearchanges and gentle accelleration around corners to keep it in a straight line with traction. Thats the fun part. During the easing of the accellerator, the AI cars catch up to you/get away from you.

So your 20 minutes estimate may be your fun factor length, but for others - like me - it'll be hours.

I think some of you guys are forgetting its a game. I would love 1200-2500 BHP cars just for the amount of laughs i know i would have. So i can learn to tame them and then become a better driver in the process. Games like GT5 are all about fun not 100 percent dead on physics accuracy.
Remember its a game have fun and dont complain about it.

Everyone notice the words i've bolded?

IT
IS
A
GAME
!

Games are about having fun.

Your idea of fun in a GT game may just be racing with low hp cars against high hp cars. Great, nothing wrong with that!

Your idea of fun may just be drifting around the tracks. Great, nothing wrong with that!

Your idea of fun may just be taking nice photos of cars. Great, nothing wrong with that!

Your idea of fun may just be drag racing in the game. Great, nothing wrong with that!

Your idea of fun may just be tuning cars for each track to set the best lap time possible. Great, nothing wrong with that!

Your idea of fun may just be racing online with others around the world. Great, nothing wrong with that!

Your idea of fun may just be creating high HP monster cars that are a real handful to drive, but great fun at the same time. You may enjoy trying to tame them while going around a track. Great, nothing wrong with that!

See where i'm going with this?

Enough said.

P.S. ITS ABOUT FUN!

 

[Tornado]

Because thats how the game is designed... This isn't anything new, most racing/driving games do this. They've obviously been limited to compete in a particular class of car - why? I don't know why they've segerated cars into classes. Maybe they're just trying to promote super cars or higher end cars... You'll have to contact PD to get that answer, I'm just reporting on what I'm seeing. It does indeed seem that most every other car the Supra competed against during its reign in production are all cars that cannot achieve more than 800hp. This isn't suprising to me, other games do this.

We've all seen Camaros with more than 700hp... we've all seen Mustangs with more than 700hp. We've all seen 1,000hp R33s and R34s and so on. Thing is, this is alll IRL - otherwise not within the world of Gran Turismo. 720hp is still quite extreme while also very realistic. I don't see a problem with it or with any of the tuning.

So what you are saying is that it's not a problem because PD did it that way on purpose. I'm shocked.

 

[Slash]

What ever happened to the port and polish option in tuning? Hell, even GT4 had that. I was sorrowly dissapointed at GT5's tuning options. I thought there we be more, not less. Same thing with increasing displacement.

 

[CaptainHarlock]

Really? Someone is complaining about not being able to modify a Toyota Supra in a game up to 2000bhp? You know, VW can't build a Veyron in real life that can get over 1000bhp. This is descending into Big Bang Theory territory now.

 

[ghostrider135]

Really? Someone is complaining about not being able to modify a Toyota Supra in a game up to 2000bhp? You know, VW can't build a Veyron in real life that can get over 1000bhp. This is descending into Big Bang Theory territory now.

That's like saying you never get 1500bhp Audi's, Facts are facts my friend cars can produce over 1000bhp, The only cost is perhaps having to share your bed with the bank manager and having an unreliable car or less reliable than it was when it left the factory, Either way im sure that doesn't make much of a difference with the race lengths in GT5, Weather you'll get 1000+ bhp round a corner without going to heaven in fiery death is another matter .

 

[SkylineObsession]

Really? Someone is complaining about not being able to modify a Toyota Supra in a game up to 2000bhp? You know, VW can't build a Veyron in real life that can get over 1000bhp. This is descending into Big Bang Theory territory now.

Try read the topic properly. 👎

 

[CaptainHarlock]

Try read the topic properly. 👎

Nah, I'd rather not. Otherwise I'd become this;

 

[CaptainHarlock]

That's like saying you never get 1500bhp Audi's, Facts are facts my friend cars can produce over 1000bhp, The only cost is perhaps having to share your bed with the bank manager and having an unreliable car or less reliable than it was when it left the factory, Either way im sure that doesn't make much of a difference with the race lengths in GT5, Weather you'll get 1000+ bhp round a corner without going to heaven in fiery death is another matter .

Well goody for him. Even if he did, and quite frankly anyone can say anything on the internet and it doesn't have to be true, there's not a whole lot of good 1000bhp is going to do you sitting in traffic on I-95.

 

[Tornado]

Really? Someone is complaining about not being able to modify a Toyota Supra in a game up to 2000bhp?

Really? Someone is whining about something someone else said without having actually read any of the topic whatsoever?