GT Sport beta physics discussion - Read the First Post Before Replying

[doblocruiser]

In the way the cars feel while cornering GT6 feels more realistic than AC to me.

I actually can't believe I am reading that

 

[PzR Slim]

In the way the cars feel while cornering GT6 feels more realistic than AC to me.

That's great. Now prove, using reality rather than how you 'feel', that is the case. You've just gone and done the exact thing we have been talking about for the past couple of pages

 

[oneloops]

That's great. Now prove, using reality rather than how you 'feel', that is the case. You've just gone and done the exact thing we have been talking about for the past couple of pages

I've already explained why many times in detail to Scaff and others in the past. I'm not going to write it again.

Nobody can prove that a simulator feels more realistic than other. A sim is always a subjective experience, like a movie, they are both a simulation of reality.

 

[PzR Slim]

I've already explained why many times in detail to Scaff and others in the past. I'm not going to write it again.

Nobody can prove that a simulator feels more realistic than other. A sim is always a subjective experience, like a movie, they are both a simulation of reality.

You clearly haven't listened to a word a bunch of entirely reasonable people have said and will plow on with your opinion is King no matter what. Sad.

 

[oneloops]

You clearly haven't listened to a word a bunch of entirely reasonable people have said and will plow on with your opinion is King no matter what. Sad.

I'm not trying to impose my way of thinking, I'm only expressing my personal opinion.

It's not sad having different opinions.

 

[PzR Slim]

I'm not trying to impose my way of thinking, I'm only expressing my personal opinion.

It's not sad having different opinions.

Oh look, we've gone round in a circle again. Comparing to reality is not subjective opinion. When people post videos of real life to compare to GTS and AC that's not subjective opinion.

I am not saying different opinions are sad. What is sad is that you seemingly can't understand the point that your subjective opinion is not a way to defend GTS against objective reality.

Now this is either because you don't have the ability to grasp the concept or because you are so entrenched with one franchise. I'm sure people will make up their mind which it is.

 

[OdeFinn]

@oneloops my feeling from AC cornering was way of too, until got FFB settings right, not much wrong and it's just pure joke to drive, GTS you simply can't do so much wrong on FFB settings at it will change cornering feeling to pure utter, maybe their several year history on game making is there, they can keep basic settings always working, no such setting which will break game feeling totally, AC instead starts with non-driveable FFB settings and you have to seek best out from it or game never gives good feeling for driving.

Controller implementation comparison:
GTS gets 10/10 for driving implementation to all different control methods, decent working from stock to great feeling after minor tweaking.
AC gets 3/10 for same controller implementation, stock form it's not good, 3 points for telling at there might be something buried behind and waiting to be found. After huge tweaking it rises to 8½ points.

FFB comparison:
GTS 8½, slight more kick and it rises on par with AC
AC 9, optimal is near, but cannot be reached with current form.

 

[oneloops]

Oh look, we've gone round in a circle again. Comparing to reality is not subjective opinion. When people post videos of real life to compare to GTS and AC that's not subjective opinion.

I am not saying different opinions are sad. What is sad is that you seemingly can't understand the point that your subjective opinion is not a way to defend GTS against objective reality.

Now this is either because you don't have the ability to grasp the concept or because you are so entrenched with one franchise. I'm sure people will make up their mind which it is.

If you show to someone videos of a sim + real life videos they won't know which one feels more real to them until they try those sims.

Videos show only a part of the sim feeling but you have to drive it to feel the physics. You can't feel the physics and car reactions with a video you only see a few things.

AC has an excellent level in many areas. If GTS aproach that level in those areas it would be a good thing.

But for me AC is not a good reference in cornering reactions to copy into GTS.

 

[PzR Slim]

If you show to someone videos of a sim + real life videos they won't know which one feels more real to them until they try those sims.

Videos show only a part of the sim feeling but you have to drive it to feel the physics. You can't feel the physics and car reactions with a video you only see a few things.

AC has an excellent level in many areas. If GTS aproach that level in those areas it would be a good thing.

But for me AC is not a good reference in cornering reactions to copy into GTS.

You carry on

 

[Scaff]

If you show to someone videos of a sim + real life videos they won't know which one feels more real to them until they try those sims.

Videos show only a part of the sim feeling but you have to drive it to feel the physics. You can't feel the physics and car reactions with a video you only see a few things.

AC has an excellent level in many areas. If GTS aproach that level in those areas it would be a good thing.

But for me AC is not a good reference in cornering reactions to copy into GTS.

And unless you use reality as a reference and not what you think it should 'feel' like its not going to be any more accurate that watching videos.

How a body in motion should react in certain circumstances is not subjective, how you 'feel' it should react is not a measure of reality.

A question, do you have the Focus ST in GTS and if so do you think it's steering 'feel's real to you?

Same question with regard to the Alfa Guilette in AC?

 

[Haitauer]

Hey! This IS physics related! No tiresmoke on curb!



the smoke evaporates too quickly - other than that its impressive.. 👍

just noticed - the dramatic ending reminds me of Lightning McQueen

 

[JDMKING13]

I really don't get why people have to trump others I just don't understand, and im all for debating but sometimes reading some of these post seem like its always someone trying to 1 up the other. I agree with @oneloops there is something AC does better and there are something GTS does better in my opinion.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I really don't get why people have to trump others I just don't understand, and im all for debating but sometimes reading some of these post seem like its always someone trying to 1 up the other. I agree with @oneloops there is something AC does better and there are something GTS does better in my opinion.

It's called discussion and sometimes one side is wrong and the other right. In this case I see both sides engaging willingly. No surprise which side you agree with though. Tell is then, which elements of real world physics are better simulated in GTS?

 

[JDMKING13]

It's called discussion and sometimes one side is wrong and the other right. In this case I see both sides engaging willingly. No surprise which side you agree with though. Tell is then, which elements of real world physics are better simulated in GTS?

Unlike what you think johnny Im not here for sides or to start arguments with people. I'm here to learn and enjoy my games. If I was for only one side as you feel why would I have Pcars, AC, FM6, FH3, GTS, GT6. Why would I spend hours playing these games if I was on a single side? Let me ask you I see you commenting a lot what is your favorite game what racing games have you personally played? I enjoy all my racing games I bet that hard to believe for some folks. My Favorite are GT and FM because they are more games to me compared to Pcars and AC, but as I have stated many times I enjoy PC and AC for the hardcore driving/racing experience. As I said before I agree with @oneloops whether its GTS compared to AC, Pcars, FM6 one game is going to do things better than the other, its up to that person personal tatse which is best.

 

[oneloops]

And unless you use reality as a reference and not what you think it should 'feel' like its not going to be any more accurate that watching videos.

How a body in motion should react in certain circumstances is not subjective, how you 'feel' it should react is not a measure of reality.

A question, do you have the Focus ST in GTS and if so do you think it's steering 'feel's real to you?

Same question with regard to the Alfa Guilette in AC?

Even in reality two different drivers will tell you that a car steering gives a good information from the road and from the suspension of the car or it doesn't.

There's always a very big subjective component even in the feel of real things. The reason why I love cars sims and driving in real life is the amount of excitements and fun you can feel pushing and exploring the limits.

If you control anothers body in motion with a controler the way it should feel is also very subjective for me.

I haven't the GTS beta so I can't tell you about the Focus ST there. I will try the Alfa Romeo Giulletta and tell you if its feels ok to me.

The begining of this discussion was about bumps at Brands Hatch that I agree that GTS should show them because they exist in reality, AC shows it very well but GTS doesn't for the moment.
I said that the way AC physics (not ffb) handles with bumps and grip for me is not a good reference to apply into GTS because you have to wait too much time waiting for the bouncing or the slide dissapears to get car control back to you. I encourage everybody who wants it to make the Brands Hatch race event with the 911 GT3 Cup in AC (no aids, only abs) with a pace of 1'29" to give your feedback about if you can push and play with the grip of the car while cornering or contrariwise the car is bouncing and sliding and you have to wait for the end of the corners to have again the control of the car back to you, and if it feels realistic or not to you the way it handles the bounces while cornering. That's why I think AC is not a good reference to apply to the final GTS about physics at cornering or bumps effects to the cars, but track bumps recreation is a good and realistic reference in AC.

 

[JDMKING13]

Even in reality two different drivers will tell you that a car steering gives a good information from the road and from the suspension of the car or it doesn't. More often now with electric steering in new cars in the market.

There's always a very big subjective component even in the feel of real things.

If you control anothers body in motion with a controler the way it should feel is very subjective for me, too.

I haven't the GTS beta so I can't tell you about the Focus ST there. I will try the Alfa Romeo Giulletta and tell you if its feels ok to me.

The begining of this discussion was about bumps at Brands Hatch that I agree that GTS should show them because they exist in reality, AC shows it very well but GTS doesn't for the moment.
I said that the way AC physics (not ffb) handles with bumps and grip for me is not a good reference to apply into GTS because you have to wait too much time waiting for the bouncing or the slide dissapears to get car control back to you. I encourage everybody who wants it to make the Brands Hatch race event with the 911 GT3 Cup in AC (no aids, only abs) with a pace of 1'29" to give your feedback about if you can push and play with the grip of the car while cornering of it's bouncing and sliding and you have to wait for the end of the corners to have again the control of the car back to you, and if it feels realistic or not to you the way it handles the bounces. That's why I think AC is not a good reference to apply to the final GTS about physics at cornering or bumps effects to the cars, but track bumps recreation is a good and realistic reference in AC.

I never really notice bumps through the turns in AC it was more just during the long straight, down the Hill. In GTS there is nothing but only down the Hill and a few dips. When you get a chance to play you will see what I mean. Your controller is pretty much dead on the straights. Dont get me wrong you feel the elevation changes, but the track is so smooth its like your driving on glass. I have watch races on brands and from the looks of it GTS needs to add more bumps. GTS Nur Ring is top notch in my opinion the feedback you get from that track is great.

 

[Haitauer]

sometimes one side is wrong and the other right

And 90% of the time both are wrong and right..

Theres pages of conversation with very little new input.. at the end one either likes or dislikes a game - thats all that counts. I have enjoyed games like burnout and flatout - no realism there.

And just to poke this conversatio. I drove AC Brands in 458 gt2 just yesterday and yes theres bumps, but no where near as much as in the real track i think. So better, but...

 

[Scaff]

Even in reality two different drivers will tell you that a car steering gives a good information from the road and from the suspension of the car or it doesn't.

And yet the majority will provide a general consensus around these areas, the reviews of both of these cars has always been very consistent in regard to how they drive.

There's always a very big subjective component even in the feel of real things. The reason why I love cars sims and driving in real life is the amount of excitements and fun you can feel pushing and exploring the limits.

I would agree that subjective element of real cars will always be a factor, however the physics of reality are well established and know to be consistent. The same can't be said for sim's, hence the reason why you claim of 'I don't find it fun so its not close to reality' doesn't hold water at all.

If you control anothers body in motion with a controler the way it should feel is also very subjective for me.

I don't think you actually understand what that means, as the physics behind a body in motion is not subjective at all.

Take the fact that the Evora in GTS doesn't understeer on a constant radius corner on a gradually increasing throttle (such as the last two corners at Willow Springs)? Nothing at all subjective about that, it breaks the laws of physics.

I haven't the GTS beta so I can't tell you about the Focus ST there. I will try the Alfa Romeo Giulletta and tell you if its feels ok to me.

How then (by your own standards) are you able to pass comment on what AC or PCars are like in comparison to it?

The begining of this discussion was about bumps at Brands Hatch that I agree that GTS should show them because they exist in reality, AC shows it very well but GTS doesn't for the moment.
I said that the way AC physics (not ffb) handles with bumps and grip for me is not a good reference to apply into GTS because you have to wait too much time waiting for the bouncing or the slide dissapears to get car control back to you. I encourage everybody who wants it to make the Brands Hatch race event with the 911 GT3 Cup in AC (no aids, only abs) with a pace of 1'29" to give your feedback about if you can push and play with the grip of the car while cornering or contrariwise the car is bouncing and sliding and you have to wait for the end of the corners to have again the control of the car back to you, and if it feels realistic or not to you the way it handles the bounces while cornering. That's why I think AC is not a good reference to apply to the final GTS about physics at cornering or bumps effects to the cars, but track bumps recreation is a good and realistic reference in AC.

I've already answered this question in detail and provided a video. as such I am at a loss as to why you have ignored it only to ask the question again?

 

[lancia delta hf]

Yes, for me a racing car (in real life and in a sim too) should be fun and exciting. If I can't push playing with the grip because of long bumping sequences while cornering it's not neither fun nor realistic in my opinion. Just try to have fun (if you want to try it) at that event if you can, for me it's disappointing... that car should be a pleasure to push and ride going fast.

Even lapping in 1'29" it's a repetitive and not fun experience for me because of that issues.

Yes, I already saw many GT3 races and their hard suspensions make them bounce a lot when they pass over bumps, but I don't think that they can't "play with the lateral grip" nor pushing the car when cornering and they don't have to wait to stop bouncing like with AC or with PCars.

If you can't push a car on the limits and cant take fun from it because of that, it doesn't mean it's not realistic. Do you think driving Le Mans 24H is fun? Driving for hours and hours through all weathers, is that fun? Drivers may enjoy it but that doesn't sound like fun. Do you think Vettel had fun driving his company car in F1 the last couple of years? I highly doubt he did. Breaking news: Le Mans and F1 not realistic as racing should be fun.

I don't make any assumption, I only express my opinion of what I feel that is wrong and don't feel realistic to me.

Better for you if AC feels realistic for you. Many profesional drivers have said that one or another game is very realistic... everyone has their own preferences, even pro drivers and experimented drivers.

If I can't push nor playing with grip because is always bouncing or sliding in a on/off way it's not real racing nor realistic physics to me.

I know how to drive, i've been on tracks riding and driving many many times in real life.

My opinion is that he 911 cup car feels like a FWD car, and the La Ferrari feels like an Abarth 500, the 60s version. The actual Abarth 500 feels like an AWD 3000LB car to me, not realistic at all.


Now, do you see why people would have issues with my above opinion and why those opinions hold no weight and should not go unchallenged?

 

[Haitauer]

Perhaps the car looks smooth because i dunno..... the professional driver has many many more hours of experience with that one car than you have with it in the game?

Wow.. hmm.. What..

 

[lancia delta hf]

Wow.. hmm.. What..

Sorry, quoted wrong post. I will edit it out.

 

[Marcus Garvey]

 

[SDSPOWER01]

@JDMKING13 and @oneloops There is no need to get upset and feel that the other counter arguments that johny, scaff PZR are a way of topping your own arguments, because this is a discussion thread which stands for coming up with different opinions and defending it with an argument. If you have an opinion yes fine it's ok but you need to have valid points of arguments that defends your opinion in a case of debating. What I saw is that when asked for a comparison or a clarification of why you brought your argument or thought that way @oneloops you simply kept repeating that it is your opinion and did not clarify it with a video demonstration. All you needed to do is clarify why you felt that way "take all the time you need" to show a proof.

And whether you are wrong or right it does not matter because it is simply a dicussion thread which means we are not here to kill you or make you feel bad (if you do feel that way than it is better not to engage into a discussion with other people). I simply do not get why the community sees the ones who criticize wity counter arguments as the "bad guys". I hope it clarified a bit of what a discussion is all about.

 

[SDSPOWER01]

YOU SIR made my day

 

[bdj57]

What you have to do now is apply cold water to burned area I guess

Also I like how he didn't dropped the pizza because of "being shocked" cliche. I like that 👍

 

[JDMKING13]

@JDMKING13 and @oneloops There is no need to get upset and feel that the other counter arguments that johny, scaff PZR are a way of topping your own arguments, because this is a discussion thread which stands for coming up with different opinions and defending it with an argument. If you have an opinion yes fine it's ok but you need to have valid points of arguments that defends your opinion in a case of debating. What I saw is that when asked for a comparison or a clarification of why you brought your argument or thought that way @oneloops you simply kept repeating that it is your opinion and did not clarify it with a video demonstration. All you needed to do is clarify why you felt that way "take all the time you need" to show a proof.

And whether you are wrong or right it does not matter because it is simply a dicussion thread which means we are not here to kill you or make you feel bad (if you do feel that way than it is better not to engage into a discussion with other people). I simply do not get why the community sees the ones who criticize wity counter arguments as the "bad guys". I hope it clarified a bit of what a discussion is all about.

Who is upset? I'm calling it for what it is and I don't need your clarification on what a discussion is about thank you though. If you cannot read some of the tone of these post then I don't know what to tell you. Honestly you are just making things up with the bad guys line I don't feel as anyone in this conversation is a bad guy, everyone is entitled to their opinion as I said before im here to learn and have fun. Also All I said was I agree with @oneloops in the fact all these games are going to do things better than the other.

 

[ImaRobot]

Who is upset? I'm calling it for what it is and I don't need your clarification on what a discussion is about thank you though. If you cannot read some of the tone of these post then I don't know what to tell you. Honestly you are just making things up with the bad guys line I don't feel as anyone in this conversation is a bad guy, everyone is entitled to their opinion as I said before im here to learn and have fun.

That's what a discussion is. Strong tone and belief in your opinion, enough so to get into a long drawn out argument/discussion on it. I feel people wouldn't be expressing them selves if they didn't think strongly of the thing they're discussing, and that, in turn, is what makes it come across that way. If someone is going to consistently post an opinion as fact, than you're going to consistently get people debunking it, especially if it's wrong. Hell, even if someones being objective, it still happens. It doesn't make it a bad thing.

If you're not trying to label anyone as a bad guy, and if you truly aren't bothered or upset about it, than why would you approach it in such a way? Let people discuss. If there's no insults thrown around, than we're all good. It seems it bothers you more than the people actually discussing these things. I would recommend avoiding these instances if it's that much of an issue.

 

[Haitauer]

you simply kept repeating that it is your opinion and did not clarify it with a video demonstration. All you needed to do is clarify why you felt that way "take all the time you need" to show a proof.

As long as its stated as an opinion it doesnt need any proof, a fact needs a proof. Argument is anyhow always valued.

But thats my opinion..

 

[SDSPOWER01]

Who is upset? I'm calling it for what it is and I don't need your clarification on what a discussion is about thank you though. If you cannot read some of the tone of these post then I don't know what to tell you. Honestly you are just making things up with the bad guys line I don't feel as anyone in this conversation is a bad guy, everyone is entitled to their opinion as I said before im here to learn and have fun. Also All I said was I agree with @oneloops in the fact all these games are going to do things better than the other.

I did not point any names nor say that you are the one that is implying the "bad guys line". IT was simply a subjective point of view of how I saw the community reacting (again I did not say it was you). The fact that you got annoyed by the tone of how they are replying back says alot pall. Yes some can come up with a "agressive looking" reply but it does not change however that they are simply discussing (if you have discussed you will realise that some people come out as agressive and some others as passive). And again if they did not imply any offense on you directly than there is no reason to feel that their tone is too agressive and wanting to offend or bring you down. Ofcourse there are some that are going to feel that way and it cannot be prevented.

 

[Scaff]

As long as its stated as an opinion it doesnt need any proof, a fact needs a proof. Argument is anyhow always valued.

But thats my opinion..

Not quite.

It still depends on what is being said. Putting 'in my opinion' alongside what is a factual claim doesn't change it into an opinion.

For example. "In my opinion Ice Cream is only available in vanilla", isn't an opinion regardless of what I have put in front of it.

Now for an example of this in the context of this thread:

"If I can't push playing with the grip because of long bumping sequences while cornering it's not neither fun nor realistic in my opinion."

That's two statements, one is subjective and fine as an opinion ("If I can't push playing with the grip because of long bumping sequences while cornering it's not neither fun"); the other is not an opinion ("nor realistic "), and it doesn't matter if its got "In my opinion" on the end of it or not.