GT Sport, Forza 7 and PCARS2 All Nominated at The Game Awards 2017

[F Inferno]

Except race cars dont use slicks in the rain in FM7. Drive any open wheel car in the wet and you can clearly see intermediate tyres are fitted automatically.

Which would overheat and be undriveable when it starts/finishes in the dry, that also throws the whole PI system and wheel choice in there out the window. Not sure why you are trying to argue any of it is realistic when it's clearly just designed to add variety without the full realism the same as everything else e.g. car catergories.

Like I said it's the best game but the worst representation of actual motorsport.

 

[JR98]

Which would overheat and be undriveable when it starts/finishes in the dry, that also throws the whole PI system and wheel choice in there out the window. Not sure why you are trying to argue any of it is realistic when it's clearly just designed to add variety without the full realism the same as everything else e.g. car catergories.

Like I said it's the best game but the worst representation of actual motorsport.

I wasn't really disagreeing with you, just pointing out some issues I had with your post. It is true PC2 is the better representation of motorsports and I would love it if some of it's aspects (animated pit stops, pit strategy, etc.) would make it into Forza.

 

[FT-1]

Like I said it's the best game but the worst representation of actual motorsport.

Forza gets away with these things because most of its demographic don't care....

In that case, it is serving its purpose, right? Forza doesn't need to be a hardcore racing simulator, the Motorsport series has firmly established itself in the accessible simulator (I'd rather use this term than simcade) sector.

Sure, a more realistic approach would be welcomed by you and probably many others on this forum, but a significant portion of the market are likely to be turned off by increased difficulty from the added realism and Microsoft can't risk that on one of their flagship exclusive titles.

 

[F Inferno]

I wasn't really disagreeing with you, just pointing out some issues I had with your post. It is true PC2 is the better representation of motorsports and I would love it if some of it's aspects (animated pit stops, pit strategy, etc.) would make it into Forza.

I can certainly understand why they've dumbed down the rain stuff for short races it makes sense not to have a pit stop but why no qualifying as an option if you don't want to start in the middle of the pack every race?! At least they have the test drive option which was sorely missing to get some practice laps in before the race.

In that case, it is serving its purpose, right? Forza doesn't need to be a hardcore racing simulator, the Motorsport series has firmly established itself in the accessible simulator (I'd rather use this term than simcade) sector.

Sure, a more realistic approach would be welcomed by you and probably many others on this forum, but a significant portion of the market are likely to be turned off by increased difficulty from the added realism and Microsoft can't risk that on one of their flagship exclusive titles.

Sure that's why I said it's a better game and rubbish at the motorsport part. I don't think it should go down the route of hardcore sim but it would be nice if they could at least have basic QoL improvements like automatic wheel degrees of rotation per car, automatic selection of gearbox type h-shifter with clutch, sequential without clutch etc rather than global settings that don't match the car.

 

[CSLACR]

Which would overheat and be undriveable when it starts/finishes in the dry, that also throws the whole PI system and wheel choice in there out the window. Not sure why you are trying to argue any of it is realistic when it's clearly just designed to add variety without the full realism the same as everything else e.g. car catergories.

Like I said it's the best game but the worst representation of actual motorsport.

You pretty clearly know next to nothing about FM7, your posts give away as much.

Also, most all your complaints are about perfect simulation.

This is NOT a sim racing award.
Does it make sense to you yet?

It is NOT a simulation award.

Also, PC2 feels like it has terrible, terrible physics with a controller. The car floats, doesn't respond well and feels totally artificial.

Now when an award for "best racing simulator" gets handed to FM7, you might have a case.

 

[KoldStrejke]

No Way! Damn. LoL. Forza 7 is in no way better then PC2, and GT Sport. GT Sport has best Control Feel for DS4 (Controller). PC2 Has Best Camera "View" Options (close to Real Views) & tweakable Control options.

It's all about driving Feel & Frame Rate. to me anyway.

#1. PC2: the Tweak makes the other games Weak. the thing that hurts this game is the car list is not varied enough.
#2. GT Sport: Great car list, but not enough. Track list to short. not much a-do. Tracks and cars coming to late and Single player add-in to late as well.
#3. Forza 7: LoL, one thing is clear. you need a separate wheel to have fun with this game (big setback, Wont buy a second wheel, should not have to) controller options limited. controller feel is worst in group. camera views worst in group. The Plus side. It has lots to do and lots of cars to do it in, but not as fun as PC2 or GT Sport. driving feel is weak in comparison to the others.

 

[TokoTurismo]

Ha! People still forgetting Forza 7 won best "Racing Game" award, not "Racing Simulation".

Ugh, the internet sometimes...

 

[CSLACR]

No Way! Damn. LoL. Forza 7 is in no way better then PC2, and GT Sport. GT Sport has best Control Feel for DS4 (Controller). PC2 Has Best Camera "View" Options (close to Real Views) & tweakable Control options.

It's all about driving Feel & Frame Rate. to me anyway.

#1. PC2: the Tweak makes the other games Weak. the thing that hurts this game is the car list is not varied enough.
#2. GT Sport: Great car list, but not enough. Track list to short. not much a-do. Tracks and cars coming to late and Single player add-in to late as well.
#3. Forza 7: LoL, one thing is clear. you need a separate wheel to have fun with this game (big setback, Wont buy a second wheel, should not have to) controller options limited. controller feel is worst in group. camera views worst in group. The Plus side. It has lots to do and lots of cars to do it in, but not as fun as PC2 or GT Sport. driving feel is weak in comparison to the others.

Care to cite your source that FM7 requires a special wheel?

Cause I say you know nothing about FM7 and are pulling **** out your ass.

 

[KoldStrejke]

Care to cite your source that FM7 requires a special wheel?

Cause I say you know nothing about FM7 and are pulling **** out your ass.

as read, "separate wheel" Don't be a Douche

 

[JR98]

controller feel is worst in group

Having played all 3, I honestly believe this to be the exact opposite. FM7 is definitely the best of the 3 on a controller, with PC2 being the worst

 

[CSLACR]

as read, "separate wheel" Don't be a Douche

Only if you stop being one first.

Citation for needing a separate wheel, please and thank you.

Citation for FM7 having limited controller options and terrible controller feel (coming from a PC2 fan of all places omglolz)

 

[KoldStrejke]

Having played all 3, I honestly believe this to be the exact opposite. FM7 is definitely the best of the 3 on a controller, with PC2 being the worst

wow didn't know I was in a forum of fan boys, but you know its my opinion. and if you don't like it then Oh Well. and No F7 is not best playing with controller. GT series has always been the best with controller on consoles. you can change all buttons in GT Sport. you cant do that with F7. in F7 trigger axis cant be used to shift up or down like in GT Series.

 

[KoldStrejke]

Having played all 3, I honestly believe this to be the exact opposite. FM7 is definitely the best of the 3 on a controller, with PC2 being the worst

wow didn't know I was in a forum of fan boys, but you know its my opinion. and if you don't like it then Oh Well. and No F7 is not best playing with controller. GT series has always been the best with controller on consoles. you can change all buttons in GT Sport. you cant do that with F7. in F7 trigger axis cant be used to shift up or down like in GT Series.

 

[KoldStrejke]

Having played all 3, I honestly believe this to be the exact opposite. FM7 is definitely the best of the 3 on a controller, with PC2 being the worst

wow didn't know I was in a forum of fan boys, but you know its my opinion. and if you don't like it then Oh Well. and No F7 is not best playing with controller. GT series has always been the best with controller on consoles. you can change all buttons in GT Sport. you cant do that with F7. in F7 trigger axis cant be used to shift up or down like in GT Series.

 

[JR98]

wow didn't know I was in a forum of fan boys, but you know its my opinion. and if you don't like it then Oh Well. and No F7 is not best playing with controller. GT series has always been the best with controller on consoles. you can change all buttons in GT Sport. you cant do that with F7. in F7 trigger axis cant be used to shift up or down like in GT Series.

There's more to being best on controller than setup options. IMHO FM7 is the most fun on a controller using default settings no matter the car or track.

Not trying to be a fanboy as I have given all played all 3 and I feel I've given them all a fair chance like I do with all games I play, these are just my honest opinions after my time with each game.

 

[KoldStrejke]

Sorry for Multiple posts the forum was lagging and I clicked several times.

 

[KoldStrejke]

and No I am not a PC2 fan. I play it but I play rFactor2 More then Most Sims. I try to play as many Sim/Cade games as I can in the Time I have in the week.

 

[Shirrako]

I know am late on this but my opinion on who should have won..well Project CARS 2, it offered the most complete experience.

Forza 7 physics are nowhere near as good as PC2 in my opinion.
Loot crates also were completely un-needed, though it did offer a good amount of content, but the greed could be felt around every corner.

As for GT? If they released the game with GT League and more tracks then it would be the winner for me, sadly they kinda messed up the launch with lack of content, sure it will probably be the best game of the 3 in a year, but update promises don't win awards

 

[CSLACR]

wow didn't know I was in a forum of fan boys, but you know its my opinion. and if you don't like it then Oh Well. and No F7 is not best playing with controller. GT series has always been the best with controller on consoles. you can change all buttons in GT Sport. you cant do that with F7. in F7 trigger axis cant be used to shift up or down like in GT Series.

Yes, even though most people who played both games (PC2 and FM7) on a controller agree that FM7 is far better with the controller, obviously they're all fanboys.

And you can change buttons on the controller itself, outside of the game options on Xbox.
Also who the hell uses a thumb stick to shift up and down? Never heard of it.

 

[F Inferno]

Yes, even though most people who played both games (PC2 and FM7) on a controller agree that FM7 is far better with the controller, obviously they're all fanboys.

And you can change buttons on the controller itself, outside of the game options on Xbox.
Also who the hell uses a thumb stick to shift up and down? Never heard of it.

It was one of the control methods in the early GT's to use when we were still driving without analog triggers and some people have got used to it, although anyone who wanted better car control used the right stick as the accelerator/brake. What he is saying though is he wants the triggers as up/down shift which makes no sense at all unless he wanted to pretend he is using a paddle shift action but then no impulse trigger feedback?!

GT on a pad has always been worse than Forza though and I think most of that comes down to the fact the rumble feedback on Xbox controllers is so much better at communicating what's going on but in GT it's almost dead in comparison. The triggers are also much better on XB1 although they might have been improved in the DS4 I've not tried yet?

 

[F Inferno]

You pretty clearly know next to nothing about FM7, your posts give away as much.

Also, most all your complaints are about perfect simulation.

This is NOT a sim racing award.
Does it make sense to you yet?

It is NOT a simulation award.

Also, PC2 feels like it has terrible, terrible physics with a controller. The car floats, doesn't respond well and feels totally artificial.

Now when an award for "best racing simulator" gets handed to FM7, you might have a case.

As in you think I don't own it and I'm just making it all up?

Not once have I **** on Forza so don't give me that bollocks, I've not come in hear whining about loot boxes and all that because nobody has time to drive all 700 cars and you can drive any car you want in free play anyway.

All I've basically said is comparing PC2 to it is not really a fair comparison and gave examples of complaints people have about PC2 spun to Forza 7. My argument was never Forza should be a better sim because I know that's not what it is, I only argued when I thought others were trying to claim it was in fact realistic.

Oh you mean exactly how a real car would feel if you tried driving it with a controller... I had PCars1/AC and pretty much every other sim feeling exactly the same on a controller and they are all much harder to drive and give much less (faked) effects than Forza because they don't have controller aids or controller players in mind or want to give them an advantage. Just like Forza 7 has no FFB for basic things like vertical load changes which is pretty important.

As much as you can argue PC2 is bad on a controller, Forza 7 is the same in comparison for wheel users, you might not care as you use a controller but it doesn't make it untrue! I only got back into using a wheel as I stopped playing sims and when I went back they are just too much work on a controller without assists to be consistent as you have neither enough control or feedback with an anolog stick/vibration motors.

Long story short, they aren't comparable just like Ghost Recon Widlands isn't comparable to Arma 3 just because they both include open worlds with guns and people need to learn to enjoy the unique gameplay opportunities both provide. If somebody doesn't like a particular style doesn't make it a bad game or the other game better it just means it's not for them, move on.

I've said repeatedly it's the best game it's right there in your quote which makes it the best racing game but it also is the racing and/or sports category and oh look it's motorSPORT which is the part I'm saying it's worst at because it is nothing like the real thing, I haven't even talked about flags or race rules because I know it's not shooting for that.

Also just as an FYI I've played F7 about twice as much as PC2, partly because I'm waiting for Volta to drop so I can up the graphics settings in VR and partly because the way events and money etc. in Forza are designed to keep you wanting to continue.

 

[CSLACR]

As in you think I don't own it and I'm just making it all up?

Not once have I **** on Forza so don't give me that bollocks, I've not come in hear whining about loot boxes and all that because nobody has time to drive all 700 cars and you can drive any car you want in free play anyway.

All I've basically said is comparing PC2 to it is not really a fair comparison and gave examples of complaints people have about PC2 spun to Forza 7. My argument was never Forza should be a better sim because I know that's not what it is, I only argued when I thought others were trying to claim it was in fact realistic.

Oh you mean exactly how a real car would feel if you tried driving it with a controller... I had PCars1/AC and pretty much every other sim feeling exactly the same on a controller and they are all much harder to drive and give much less (faked) effects than Forza because they don't have controller aids or controller players in mind or want to give them an advantage. Just like Forza 7 has no FFB for basic things like vertical load changes which is pretty important.

As much as you can argue PC2 is bad on a controller, Forza 7 is the same in comparison for wheel users, you might not care as you use a controller but it doesn't make it untrue! I only got back into using a wheel as I stopped playing sims and when I went back they are just too much work on a controller without assists to be consistent as you have neither enough control or feedback with an anolog stick/vibration motors.

Long story short, they aren't comparable just like Ghost Recon Widlands isn't comparable to Arma 3 just because they both include open worlds with guns and people need to learn to enjoy the unique gameplay opportunities both provide. If somebody doesn't like a particular style doesn't make it a bad game or the other game better it just means it's not for them, move on.

I've said repeatedly it's the best game it's right there in your quote which makes it the best racing game but it also is the racing and/or sports category and oh look it's motorSPORT which is the part I'm saying it's worst at because it is nothing like the real thing, I haven't even talked about flags or race rules because I know it's not shooting for that.

Also just as an FYI I've played F7 about twice as much as PC2, partly because I'm waiting for Volta to drop so I can up the graphics settings in VR and partly because the way events and money etc. in Forza are designed to keep you wanting to continue.

You said a couple pretty inaccurate things, if you really want I can dig them up when I get on my pc.

I don't think anybody claimed Forza was perfectly realistic, but it is realistic, yes.
By the common persons definition, it is very realistic.
I would say it's easily far and away more realistic than GT up through GT6.

When I talk about realism, I focus on how similar it seems to driving a real car, and the experience as a whole. Not specifically physics, or specifically visuals, but the entire package while driving.

For example, people love talking about the tire model in FM7, but they don't want to discuss GT's dead suspensions. People compare what's important to them.

Personally, I don't know what all this feedback fuss is about. It's not as strong as other games, but I have absolutely no problem driving with the wheel.
I do change steering settings from car to car a lot, which I wish I didn't have to, but it helps too much to not do it.

Yes, since you asked, I have a G920. I also play with the controller when I'm tired or lazy.

 

[Speedster911]

Agreed, and this is what I also feared would happened in the future of Forza after it took the crown from a "certain franchise" that decided to go hardcore for whatever reason. It looks like T10 are falling into the same fate as PD did, such as lacking in competition and being over-confident on their product to sell copies.

It's happening as we speak. I've moved away from their games for now, cos the job they did in FM7 kinda makes me not want to play their other games... it's wierd, can't explain!

I might give GT a chance although it appears rather bare bones in its current state. I gotta give it to them though - I think this is the first GT in history that does car sound better than Forza.

 

[TokoTurismo]

It's happening as we speak. I've moved away from their games for now, cos the job they did in FM7 kinda makes me not want to play their other games... it's wierd, can't explain!

I know how you feel man. And don't worry, it's not weird. 👍 I've been feeling the way lately as well, and although FM7 CAN be fun, it's missing too much at the moment (such as class-based events from rivals and hoppers, storefront, etc.) It's like someone in the Forza thread on GTP said, Forza 7 was rushed for the One X and it shows when you think about it.

After Forza 7 I don't think I'll buying anymore titles (from T10 at least), but the franchise itself really needs a break. Guess that's what happens when nobody gives you a challenge.

I might give GT a chance although it appears rather bare bones in its current state.

I would too but only if it was GT7. I don't like SPORT, but I'm sure you'll come to like it. It has changeable wheels, livery editor, ....Scapes, and soon GT League for offline. Though sadly it's lacking in cars, tracks, and proper customization, but so long as you don't think it's your classic GT game you should be A-okay. 👍

I gotta give it to them though - I think this is the first GT in history that does car sound better than Forza.

I DO NOT disagree, and that reminds me. The Audi Sport Quattro S1 in FM7 madly triggers me. It sounds low pitch and awful compared to FH3.
Can't believe T10 failed on that this time around, especially by PD of all people?! The world is ending I'm sure. jk.

No seriously, PD did a good job this time. Now MAKE GT7 KAZ!

 

[F Inferno]

You said a couple pretty inaccurate things, if you really want I can dig them up when I get on my pc.

I don't think anybody claimed Forza was perfectly realistic, but it is realistic, yes.
By the common persons definition, it is very realistic.
I would say it's easily far and away more realistic than GT up through GT6.

When I talk about realism, I focus on how similar it seems to driving a real car, and the experience as a whole. Not specifically physics, or specifically visuals, but the entire package while driving.

For example, people love talking about the tire model in FM7, but they don't want to discuss GT's dead suspensions. People compare what's important to them.

Personally, I don't know what all this feedback fuss is about. It's not as strong as other games, but I have absolutely no problem driving with the wheel.
I do change steering settings from car to car a lot, which I wish I didn't have to, but it helps too much to not do it.

Yes, since you asked, I have a G920. I also play with the controller when I'm tired or lazy.

Sure go ahead I'm intrigued.

If your only metric for realistic is other semi-sims sure but it's realistic in the same way Hollywood action films are aka stylised realism.

It's perfectly driveable but that doesn't make the FFB any good, if you can't tell what is wrong then how do you think you are in any position to judge other physics issues? I'm not even that knowledgable but I can still pick out a lot of things wrong with it.

Realistic enough for you doesn't make it any more or less realistic. It's not called a simcade, which I've avoided using, by most people for it's realism.

 

[Wolfe]

@TokoTurismo @Speedster911 -- Reading that from you guys makes me feel a little more validated in turning my back on the franchise. All the cool cars aren't worth that much without better physics, or at least a better lineup of tracks and racing options/features, but progress is slow or nonexistent. If I had other reasons to choose an Xbox over the PS4 I have now, I'd surely have FH3 and FM6/FM7 just because I can. Too late now.

 

[ImaRobot]

Also who the hell uses a thumb stick to shift up and down? Never heard of it.

I do.

 

[CSLACR]

Sure go ahead I'm intrigued.

If your only metric for realistic is other semi-sims sure but it's realistic in the same way Hollywood action films are aka stylised realism.

It's perfectly driveable but that doesn't make the FFB any good, if you can't tell what is wrong then how do you think you are in any position to judge other physics issues? I'm not even that knowledgable but I can still pick out a lot of things wrong with it.

Realistic enough for you doesn't make it any more or less realistic. It's not called a simcade, which I've avoided using, by most people for it's realism.

I just don't care.
I'm tired of listening to the lesser 1% of simulation fanatics whine.
All. Day. Long.

You guys parade around this site acting like what the most pretenious 1% of racing game players want should dominate racing games.

It's funny, but it also drives me nuts because so many of you are here you actually get caught up thinking you're the majority sometimes. (Not you specifically, forum sim lovers in general)

Funny, sad, and a few other things.

 

[bf3]

Gotta love all that salt from so called "sim experts"
As i said - im going back to this thread when Forza 7 wins - so i am here to laugh at all saltyness because SOME GAME WON SOME STUPID AWARD
Overall - there is no better game than Forza 7,pc2 lags behind with its usual problems,GTS not even should have been released yet,so..
Me loving FM7

 

[F Inferno]

I just don't care.
I'm tired of listening to the lesser 1% of simulation fanatics whine.
All. Day. Long.

You guys parade around this site acting like what the most pretenious 1% of racing game players want should dominate racing games.

It's funny, but it also drives me nuts because so many of you are here you actually get caught up thinking you're the majority sometimes. (Not you specifically, forum sim lovers in general)

Funny, sad, and a few other things.

I'm not arguing that all racing games should be hardcore simulations. In fact I'm actually talking about how it's rubbish that PC2 gets screwed because it's more simulation so all of them go deep into ripping everything apart which just doesn't happen with Forza but could quite easily if one wanted to.

It's the double standards which bother me, I'm not saying anything is inherently wrong with Forza outside of the basic automatic wheel stuff which every sim/semi-sim has or simple things like qualifying as it's boring always starting in the same position.

I just love racing games whether arcade or sim, I'm not one of those people who refuse to play anything but sims and think the rest are arcade rubbish. However I will say if I think something is lacking and could do with improvements by looking at how other racing games do things, not just because they are sims but because they do certain things much much better, just as Forza does the game part much better. One of my favourite things in Assetto Corsa for example is the special events because they remind me of the license tests in GT but everything else is terrible in traditional game terms.

So yeh, while it is evidently not clear my intention was not to say PC2 wins because it's a better sim only that they shouldn't really be compared as they aren't shooting for the same target.