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[Milouse]

K' Update with two new things:

- The extended DR/SR/Stats profile has now a search by PSN name page here. So there's no need to search for our ID anymore. It covers around 99,95% of existing players. Newly created GT Sport profile may require up to one hour to be included in the search.
@PJTierney Maybe you'll want to update this thread original post.
@Outspacer So many profiles to explore

- I updated the global players poll Stats with fresh data, and added a new stat "SR score distribution in % of players having completed at least 5 races in Sport Mode".

 

[PirovacBoy]

K' Update with two new things:

- The extended DR/SR/Stats profile has now a search by PSN name page here. So there's no need to search for our ID anymore. It covers around 99,95% of existing players. Newly created GT Sport profile may require up to one hour to be included in the search.
@PJTierney Maybe you'll want to update this thread original post.
@Outspacer So many profiles to explore

- I updated the global players poll Stats with fresh data, and added a new stat "SR score distribution in % of players having completed at least 5 races in Sport Mode".

And once again you improved your already supreme stats Site. Thanks.

 

[Outspacer]

- The extended DR/SR/Stats profile has now a search by PSN name page here. So there's no need to search for our ID anymore. It covers around 99,95% of existing players. Newly created GT Sport profile may require up to one hour to be included in the search.
@PJTierney Maybe you'll want to update this thread original post.
@Outspacer So many profiles to explore

Awesome! Just had time to grab one race, and found another (Derpsmuch) getting limited to 7000 as the SR fell...

name,drpre,srpre,rpre,drpost,srpost,rpost
edupostigo,5868,13,79,6782,21,80
crashandburn10,7532,10,551,8246,18,552
U_S_Marine-1,8221,13,55,8761,18,56
mracin1420,8016,15,118,8401,16,119
JBauer00712,6845,14,656,7101,14,657
BoEric22,9117,19,20,9158,14,21
michellcm7,7923,12,61,7833,13,62
Derpsmuch,8370,11,39,7000,4,40
THErunnerof512,6987,19,28,6602,12,29
Murder_Nova_CR_,5265,18,84,4763,11,85
BLuR_fantabulous,7718,12,145,6918,8,145
leobasili,8350,15,219,7537,10,219

Unfortunately it'll be a couple of days before I have time to do any more work on the calcs

 

[Krypton78]

If I may ask Milouse, have you plans for adding DR score distribution in % also in your statistics site?

Maybe you can't hear (read) it anymore , but thank you again for your work! 👍👍👍

 

[Milouse]

If I may ask Milouse, have you plans for adding DR score distribution in % also in your statistics site?

The problem with DR, is that is distribution, even past the 5 races, is packed around low score. So a graph makes sense only on quite *low* DR, as this is where most players are.
By low, i mean low on the 1-75,000 pts scale.

So i ended up doing this hybrid stat page for the DR Score.

 

[Jomas]

I don't know if someone already asked this, I quickly looked at the previous pages of this topic and I saw no one talking about that yet.

I wanted to ask how the "Sport Mode Completed Races" is calculated on your website @Milouse ? Because on GT website as on the game, I have 54 races completed and on your statistics I have 83, while the victories / FL / pole positions are accurate.

After thinking a bit, maybe the open beta races are counting for your website, because as far as I remember, I almost was at the 2nd level of the Completed Race success, which is 30 races.

 

[Milouse]

I wanted to ask how the "Sport Mode Completed Races" is calculated on your website @Milouse ? Because on GT website as on the game, I have 54 races completed and on your statistics I have 83, while the victories / FL / pole positions are accurate.

After thinking a bit, maybe the open beta races are counting for your website, because as far as I remember, I almost was at the 2nd level of the Completed Race success, which is 30 races.

This is weird indeed, as the value is returned as such by the GT server under "Race Count".
Following your post, i investigated but with no success so far:
1. A profile with lot of Km in solo but with no Sport Mode advancement shows a Race Count of 0 -> that wouldn't count the Solo races as well.
2. A profile that played only the open beta (demo), and played in Sport Mode in demo shows the same value in the Race Count and in the achievement UI -> the beta racing is not the cause, as it's taken into account in both cases.
3. I checked a profile player streaming video while playing a lobby race, and it didn't add in any of the count -> that wouldn't count the Lobby races either.
4. I saw during multiple full grid races analysis that a player that left the session before the end didn't see his Race Count incremented either.
5. This Race Count match the DR score of 2000 that we expect after 5 races in sport mode.

So right now i have no idea. Any other theory would be welcome.

 

[GT_No1]

So right now i have no idea. Any other theory would be welcome.

I have a difference of around 40 extra races more on the stats site. I had assumed that around 10 were disconnections, starting but not finishing,,, and the other 30 or so were 2 weekends worth of races on a different machine as I initially thought all progress was uploaded to the server before finding this to not be the case,,, I now do usb saves when operating between machines.

 

[Milouse]

I updated the Stats page in order to show both values, while we investigate this.

I have a difference of around 40 extra races more on the stats site. I had assumed that around 10 were disconnections, starting but not finishing,,, and the other 30 or so were 2 weekends worth of races on a different machine as I initially thought all progress was uploaded to the server before finding this to not be the case,,, I now do usb saves when operating between machines.

Thanks.
My own profile shows the same number for both counts, and i have been disconnected once, and my game also crashed during the loading prior to a FIA race (locking the right to play that day, with a score set to 0).
Let's keep note of that multi-consoles and server connexion error, see if that affected others players with different counts.

Note: to complete my profile details, which doesn't show differences, i played races in Mission, in School, in Arcade, in League, and in Sport modes. Not in Lobby (but this last one doesn't seem to count either based on a streamer's profile analysis).

 

[Outspacer]

Mine shows:
(Sport Mode) Completed Races 237
Sport Mode Races Finished* 225

I've had only 2 or 3 disconnects / quits that I can recall. Always played on the same machine. Never played in a lobby.

Can't think of anything to explain a 12 race difference

 

[Jomas]

@Milouse Mine shows:
(Sport Mode) Completed Races83
Sport Mode Races Finished*54

I didn't change my PS4, and the values are the same that I was saying earlier.

From my friend @khkenni

Main account:
(Sport Mode) Completed Races252
Sport Mode Races Finished*221

Secondary account (created after the game came out):
(Sport Mode) Completed Races39
Sport Mode Races Finished*39

The gap between 252 and 221 sounds logic for him, logic enough to assume it's the Beta races.

But something is weird for another friend of mine:

(Sport Mode) Completed Races258
Sport Mode Races Finished*251

And that friend didn't played the Beta at all... Beeing disconnected maybe ?

So... Maybe the "Completed Races" are the Sport/FIA races entered since the Beta and the "Races Finished" are the Sport/FIA races where you crossed the finish line, Beta excluded ? (Which means beeing disconnected or rage quit during the race don't increment that value)

Edit: Looking again at what Milouse said, my thoughts might be false. Maybe only rage quit the race don't increment then ? ...

 

[FKAustria1911]

The problem with DR, is that is distribution, even past the 5 races, is packed around low score. So a graph makes sense only on quite *low* DR, as this is where most players are.
By low, i mean low on the 1-75,000 pts scale.

So i ended up doing this hybrid stat page for the DR Score.

This is interesting, but unfortunately doesn't say much about the higher stats. What if you make a table with 5000 points intervals and the associated percentages and in the graph exclude the 0-5000 range (so it won't mess with the scaling of the other intervals)?

 

[Milouse]

Edit: Looking again at what Milouse said, my thoughts might be false. Maybe only rage quit the race don't increment then ? ...

Did you raged quit 31 times?
Anyway, rage quitting doesn't seem to increment the higher count.

On the next profile poll i will do (late Monday, probably), i'll include the lesser value (from the achievement window) that i ignored so far. I'll see if it reveals a pattern across 40,000 profiles, but i have little hope.

This is interesting, but unfortunately doesn't say much about the higher stats. What if you make a table with 5000 points intervals and the associated percentages and in the graph exclude the 0-5000 range (so it won't mess with the scaling of the other intervals)?

Higher DR players are so scarcely spread across a big range of values that i can't output anything worthwhile from my data.

 

[Jomas]

I never did a rage quit during Sport/FIA race @Milouse

 

[FKAustria1911]

Higher DR players are so scarcely spread across a big range of values that i can't output anything worthwhile from my data.

Maybe some raw numbers then?
It would be interesting to see where you stand compared to others.
Or something like "higher ranked than 75.33% of other players in Sport mode" or the other way around "you are within the 24.67%" highest ranked players in Sport mode."

 

[JacksHerer]

I never did a rage quit during Sport/FIA race @Milouse

If you click to enter a race, and then decide to not enter and click cancel, or exit before matchmaking in done, it still registers as a race entry, but it won't affect your DR/SR.

I was looking for some players to look at their stats and it says the player doesn't exist. Is this because they have privacy settings on PSN or because I must have got their profile name wrong?

 

[Outspacer]

Mine shows:
(Sport Mode) Completed Races 237
Sport Mode Races Finished* 225

I've had only 2 or 3 disconnects / quits that I can recall. Always played on the same machine. Never played in a lobby.

Can't think of anything to explain a 12 race difference

I did 12 races in the open beta, just counted from screenshots So that fits, but seems @Milouse has disproved that already?

My Achievement shows the 225 figure.

I don't think I've failed to cross the finish line before the timeout 12 times, but it's possible.

 

[Factor41]

K' Update with two new things:

- The extended DR/SR/Stats profile has now a search by PSN name page here. So there's no need to search for our ID anymore. It covers around 99,95% of existing players. Newly created GT Sport profile may require up to one hour to be included in the search.
@PJTierney Maybe you'll want to update this thread original post.
@Outspacer So many profiles to explore

- I updated the global players poll Stats with fresh data, and added a new stat "SR score distribution in % of players having completed at least 5 races in Sport Mode".

This site is great, thanks for your effort.

Would it be possible to expand the GT Players by Level section to split >30 into maybe 30-40, 40-45 and 45-50. I know the groupings will be smaller, but because of the exponential nature of the point bandings, the divisions become more important higher up. Arguably the 45-50 bands could be split into individual steps, such is the achievement of levelling up in that zone.

 

[Patclash]

I updated the Stats page in order to show both values, while we investigate this.
View attachment 707619


Thanks.
My own profile shows the same number for both counts, and i have been disconnected once, and my game also crashed during the loading prior to a FIA race (locking the right to play that day, with a score set to 0).
Let's keep note of that multi-consoles and server connexion error, see if that affected others players with different counts.

Note: to complete my profile details, which doesn't show differences, i played races in Mission, in School, in Arcade, in League, and in Sport modes. Not in Lobby (but this last one doesn't seem to count either based on a streamer's profile analysis).

I have a difference of 10 races

Distinct Days Game Access93
Sport Mode Performances26,251
Sport Mode Sportmanship99/99
(Sport Mode) Completed Races344
Sport Mode Races Finished*334
Sport Mode Wins100
Sport Mode Consecutive Clean Races15
Sport Mode Pole Position107
Sport Mode Fastest Laps89

http://www.kudosprime.com/gts/stats.php?profile=1391256

I have seen this difference when I achive the 322 races troply
I think this 10 races difference were the race I do with the Beta public

 

[Outspacer]

I've managed to crack the DR calc code

It isn't using quite the Elo equations, instead it uses a simpler linear equation similar to Sonos. I'm not sure how we should name it - it is still somewhat Elo-based, and that's probably accurate enough for most purposes.

For each pair of players it calculates the point gain for the winner of the pair as (DRloser - DRwinner) / 500 + 80, rounded down to the nearest integer. The loser of the pair will lose the same number of points. The final DR change for a player is the sum of their gains/losses against each other player.

It's possible that there's a limit (of -40000?) placed on the DR difference (DRloser - DRwinner) to ensure that the winner of the pair doesn't lose points, but I haven't seen an example of such a big difference yet. edit: there is, of -39500, see post #204 for revised spreadsheet.

The spreadsheet doesn't yet attempt to include any of the boosts/drops when changing DR level, any limiting within the range 1 .. 75000, or any other special cases like that. It does include handling DNF vs DNF scoring as 0 though.

 

[ColinNZ]

These calculations are now officially over my head. But well done on figuring out how it works. The next thing, I guess, is to see whether anything changes after the next update...

 

[Outspacer]

These calculations are now officially over my head. But well done on figuring out how it works. The next thing, I guess, is to see whether anything changes after the next update...

Finding it was hard because I went down a wrong track first! But the basic calc is quite simple really. I dunno what practical use it is to know, apart from putting to rest theories based on door numbers, positions gained, etc. and letting us go on to find other details like the amounts of boost you get for moving up DR levels and so on.

They may tweak it, but I think they're unlikely to change the style of the calc much. Like, they could change the 80 to 100 to make people's DR change more each race.

 

[Tristan Jones]

I've managed to crack the DR calc code

It isn't using quite the Elo equations, instead it uses a simpler linear equation similar to Sonos. I'm not sure how we should name it - it is still somewhat Elo-based, and that's probably accurate enough for most purposes.

For each pair of players it calculates the point gain for the winner of the pair as (DRloser - DRwinner) / 500 + 80, rounded down to the nearest integer. The loser of the pair will lose the same number of points. The final DR change for a player is the sum of their gains/losses against each other player.

It's possible that there's a limit (of -40000?) placed on the DR difference (DRloser - DRwinner) to ensure that the winner of the pair doesn't lose points, but I haven't seen an example of such a big difference yet.

The spreadsheet doesn't yet attempt to include any of the boosts/drops when changing DR level, any limiting within the range 1 .. 75000, or any other special cases like that. It does include handling DNF vs DNF scoring as 0 though.

Love your work!!

Was this trial and error, algebra or a program that provided this solution? Either way, do you know any other boosts/drops like level gains that influence DR? Do you think getting pole position/ increasing from qualifying or anything else boosts the number? Surely a negative SR in a race drops a gain?

If you are looking for outliers to test a hyposthesis, I am a low DR C driver that seems to race a lot of DR A racers (think i have had an S or 2 but rare), I think just because SR S racers are rare in the time periods I seem to play. You might find a few large point differences in my races, though I guess combing through the 500 DR S races may be more fruitful!

 

[Outspacer]

Love your work!!

Was this trial and error, algebra or a program that provided this solution? Either way, do you know any other boosts/drops like level gains that influence DR? Do you think getting pole position/ increasing from qualifying or anything else boosts the number? Surely a negative SR in a race drops a gain?

If you are looking for outliers to test a hyposthesis, I am a low DR C driver that seems to race a lot of DR A racers (think i have had an S or 2 but rare), I think just because SR S racers are rare in the time periods I seem to play. You might find a few large point differences in my races, though I guess combing through the 500 DR S races may be more fruitful!

Thanks! Mostly trial and error, with some deductions along the way - that 80 was the baseline score became clear quite quickly. We know a couple of the boosts - main one being 2000 points after going to D (or after 5 races) - but that's the next thing to wrap up. Nothing else like pole or -ve SR affects the DR score, although certain low levels of SR can limit your DR points. Previous page has more on that, scattered amongst a few posts (I'll try to collate it together into a new thread at some point).

I've found a race with a high A all the way down to nothings There is a limit on the diff of -39500, which leaves the winner (of a pair) scoring 1 point.

 

[Milouse]

I updated the K' Poll Stats with fresh data.

Would it be possible to expand the GT Players by Level section to split >30 into maybe 30-40, 40-45 and 45-50.

I kept the old table but added a graphic line that shows per level distribution. Interesting to see the Lv 30 incentive effect (it's the level to unlock night race on the Nordschleife, if i'm right)

Maybe some raw numbers then?
It would be interesting to see where you stand compared to others.
Or something like "higher ranked than 75.33% of other players in Sport mode" or the other way around "you are within the 24.67%" highest ranked players in Sport mode."

I takes around 4 complete days, 24 hours a day at the highest rate possible, to read every profiles ONCE. And that time is growing every minute. That means that when you're ready to compare the first read profile with the last one, the former is out-of-date by 4 days. On lower DR profile, it would be possible to rely on the inertia of the mass of players but you have interest in higher DR.
An other problem with ranking players by DR worldwide or region wide, is that it includes inactive players. Let's say you're very good and can achieve a DR score of 70.000. Maybe that score would grants you a rank of #10 today, but #30 in several month once some profiles would be "parked" in front of you. And if we want to consider percentage of players, nothing indicates that the abandon rate is the same at every DR level.

I was looking for some players to look at their stats and it says the player doesn't exist. Is this because they have privacy settings on PSN or because I must have got their profile name wrong?

There's a known tiny, tiny hole in K' profile bridge, but it's unlikely that you'd fall twice in it. Some profiles have confusing characters, that's probably the cause of your search problem.
The new profiles are added once per hour.

I did 12 races in the open beta, just counted from screenshots So that fits, but seems @Milouse has disproved that already?

I think this 10 races difference were the race I do with the Beta public

Thank you and all others for the provided feedback.
As planned, the new poll made today included the two counts. What it reveals is that it affects both demo (beta) on non-demo players. In details:
- 30 % of players of the final game who played demo are "affected". Note it's close to the ratio of Sport Mode players.
- 2.7 % of players of the final game who didn't play the demo are "affected".
My guess is that it affects any player for which achievement progress has been reset:
- all Sport Mode beta players (i assume Sport Mode achievements progress is reset after the final game loads for the first time)
- Players who had a game save failure (that 2.7 % figure is quite high by the way)

I never did a rage quit during Sport/FIA race @Milouse

I wasn't expecting someone who ranked first in a FIA champ to be a serial rage quitter

 

[FKAustria1911]

Hi Milouse,
thanks for the response, your efforts are highly appreciated!
I didn't know that it takes that long to read all profiles - and I don't know much (if anything at all) how this data is being gathered anyway. I just saw that my own profile seems to be pretty much up to date all the time, but maybe this is due to me frequently checking on the profile page using the javascript (I guess that counts as "manual refresh" then and also updates the database?).
In any case it's not really important, I just thought it's more a matter of presenting the data than gathering it.
Also it wouldn't really need to be precise numbers, I don't need to know "there are exactly 397 people with a higher DR" but more like a rough number - "there are around 400 drivers with a higher DR than you have in your region that have been active in the (roughly) last 2 weeks".
Even the raw number of S drivers alone would be an interesting number (even if it's not completely precise and completely up to date).

 

[Factor41]

I kept the old table but added a graphic line that shows per level distribution. Interesting to see the Lv 30 incentive effect (it's the level to unlock night race on the Nordschleife, if i'm right)

Thanks for adding that. Interesting to see how it plummets from there on. Will be interesting to see if that changes over time.

 

[Outspacer]

Overall 3789 pts are lost from this race: about 700 that Dayrone would've gained, and 3000 from montero dropping down to A.

So, so far I've seen that S->A is -3000 and D->C is +1500 in the races I've analysed. Are we sure of any other boosts/drops already?

The scores for the first race in post 164 weren't adding up so I guess that montero's drop from S to A must've been from a previous race, perhaps another disconnect, meaning the DR wasn't updated by the time @Milouse grabbed the data. He actually started the race with 48227 points, not 51359, and lost 1295. The previous race must've cost him 3132, which would imply that the drop from S->A could well be -1500 (since he must've lost at least 1359 points from the result to drop down to A).

I've also seen that B->A and A->S are both +1500... it's starting to look like all of them could be +/-1500.

 

[Milouse]

I didn't know that it takes that long to read all profiles - and I don't know much (if anything at all) how this data is being gathered anyway. I just saw that my own profile seems to be pretty much up to date all the time, but maybe this is due to me frequently checking on the profile page using the javascript (I guess that counts as "manual refresh" then and also updates the database?).
In any case it's not really important, I just thought it's more a matter of presenting the data than gathering it.
Also it wouldn't really need to be precise numbers, I don't need to know "there are exactly 397 people with a higher DR" but more like a rough number - "there are around 400 drivers with a higher DR than you have in your region that have been active in the (roughly) last 2 weeks".

When you check a profile on K', K' server ask data to GT server, process them and display the statistic page. Nothing is retained on K' server.
All global stats are separate from that process, and are based on a poll.
I added, on every Profile Stat, a 1% precision evaluation among Sport Player population for the DR score, based on this poll data.

The scores for the first race in post 164 weren't adding up so I guess that montero's drop from S to A must've been from a previous race, perhaps another disconnect, meaning the DR wasn't updated by the time @Milouse grabbed the data. He actually started the race with 48227 points, not 51359, and lost 1295. The previous race must've cost him 3132, which would imply that the drop from S->A could well be -1500 (since he must've lost at least 1359 points from the result to drop down to A).

I've also seen that B->A and A->S are both +1500... it's starting to look like all of them could be +/-1500.

The DR/SR pick for that race has been done during the race, maybe he had quit/been disconnected already? (if he did)
All DR/SR that i provided for grid analysis have been done simultaneously for all grid profiles.

Another weird thing. If i look to players who completed exactly 5 races, and then should have exactly 2000 pts, 26 % have less than 2000 pts. Their DR spread from 1 to nearly 2000 pts. They seems to be evenly spread, but my eye caught small grouping at exactly 1 point, 880 pts, and 1200 pts.

Edit: and SR is not related to those non-2000 DR pts profiles.

 

[sabamber]

Just noticed this has changed to include the extra races as "demo" races, I.e races completed playing the demo.

Problem is that I've never played the demo so this stat is inaccurate