GT Sport physics thread

[LeGeNd-1]

One more thing to add to the various physics inadequacies of GTS. Last manu season I drove the NSX GR.3 which has never suited my driving style. It just has too much oversteer on the corner entry phase. Now common logic would dictate that you need to come off trail braking sooner, to shift more weight towards the rear and prevent oversteer. But guess what, at the end of the season, I discovered that you need to do the OPPOSITE. Yes folks, to reduce lift off oversteer in the NSX GR.3, you need to trail brake as deep and as long as possible into the corner. Once I learnt that, it drives like a dream. Want more rotation > let off the brake. Want less rotation > keep braking. I had to turn my brain 180 degrees to accept it

 

[sdi_03]

Ive been also thinking about the physics lately, but more so on what got better.
I believe that pd has changed things for better direction.
Maybe its because I only drive TT where I can tune the car, but still. Feels better and more realistic for me now.
Weight transfer is much more sensitive, slight lift or throttle affects the car.
What I think is the bighest change, is when car goes from grip to slight slide, its possible now to induce small drift and keep it with throttle.
Or maybe I just got better with the game

 

[Rotax2020]

Whats more realistic - old or new physic model of GT Sport?

 

[ScottPuss20]

Whats more realistic - old or new physic model of GT Sport?

The old physics model was closer to reality.

 

[oneloops]

One more thing to add to the various physics inadequacies of GTS. Last manu season I drove the NSX GR.3 which has never suited my driving style. It just has too much oversteer on the corner entry phase. Now common logic would dictate that you need to come off trail braking sooner, to shift more weight towards the rear and prevent oversteer. But guess what, at the end of the season, I discovered that you need to do the OPPOSITE. Yes folks, to reduce lift off oversteer in the NSX GR.3, you need to trail brake as deep and as long as possible into the corner. Once I learnt that, it drives like a dream. Want more rotation > let off the brake. Want less rotation > keep braking. I had to turn my brain 180 degrees to accept it 😂

That car (and others) has a lot of oversteer with their engine braking, in addition to a "quite oversteer setup" in this car.

In your case, using your custom brake bias into the corner you are adding some understeer, so the car is more balanced.

Some people think that brake balance in position 0 means the same brake power to the front and to the rear, but brake discs are always bigger in the front, so even 1 to the rear doesn't mean more braking power in the rear than in the front.

With more rear or more front brake balance, trail braking always helps to balance the oversteer/understeer in each case.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

That car (and others) has a lot of oversteer with their engine braking, in addition to a "quite oversteer setup" in this car.

In your case, using your custom brake bias into the corner you are adding some understeer, so the car is more balanced.

Some people think that brake balance in position 0 means the same brake power to the front and to the rear, but brake discs are always bigger in the front, so even 1 to the rear doesn't mean more braking power in the rear than in the front.

With more rear or more front brake balance, trail braking always helps to balance the oversteer/understeer in each case.

Possibly. But the oversteer effect when coming off the brakes is still wayyy too pronounced and unrealistic in my opinion and makes the car much harder to drive than it should be. Even if you're losing the front brake bias understeer, the weight transfer to the rear should compensate the oversteer.

How much of this is down to bad default setup, or just GT's physics engine, is hard to tell (probably a bit of both). When I drive the NSX GT3 in ACC, it's still twitchy on the limit, but trail braking works as it should and I don't have to turn my brain 180 degrees to drive it.

I agree the 0 brake bias is not perfectly 50:50 and possibly also differs from car to car. Very annoying that we don't have this info in game. In PC sims usually they will say exact numbers like 60:40 or 55:45, so you know how to adjust accordingly.

 

[Groundfish]

Whats more realistic - old or new physic model of GT Sport?

The newer versions all improved upon the original.

That car (and others) has a lot of oversteer with their engine braking, in addition to a "quite oversteer setup" in this car

Engine braking can effect forward weight shift, which affects the balance and tire grip forward and aft and thus, rotation.
But, what many fast players do is compression lock the rears while downshifting to slide the rear and gain rotation on corner entry. Imo it’s an arcade technique, but when they get it right they can gain time.
It’s a little like pulling e brake on entry to help rotate. Not much reality to it.
In more simmy video games you’ll induce a spin downshifting to soon too fast.

Possibly. But the oversteer effect when coming off the brakes is still wayyy too pronounced and unrealistic in my opinion and makes the car much harder to drive than it should be. Even if you're losing the front brake bias understeer, the weight transfer to the rear should compensate the oversteer.

Originally, at release, the MR GR3 cars had major weight shift problems entering tight turns, the RS01 was especially bad at turn 1 Nurb GP and Gardens at turn five (hairpin)
The cars rear would come around into a spin, and nothing could be done about it.
The mr car weight balance was completely broken.
They were undrivsble on the racing line through certain corners.
If you ask me, they’ve never really been right even though they patched the glaring issues with some of them via updates.
The 911GT3 drives well. It never had the issues like some of the others.
The R8 drives pretty well too, but imo most MR in GTS have the handling problems that have persisted even after the patches were done.
I can tell you as an FR GR3 user if I make the same inputs re trailing in I will spin most MR before adjusting the braking on turn in.
The cars don’t give me confidence in their handling in general, MR, that is in GTS.
I think other games makes some of these cars so META then you hit GR Sport and they get these handling quirks…
I almost never adjust brake bias. Default works best for my style almost always.

 

[The Cake]

The newer versions all improved upon the original.

Engine braking can effect forward weight shift, which affects the balance and tire grip forward and aft and thus, rotation.
But, what many fast players do is compression lock the rears while downshifting to slide the rear and gain rotation on corner entry. Imo it’s an arcade technique, but when they get it right they can gain time.
It’s a little like pulling e brake on entry to help rotate. Not much reality to it.
In more simmy video games you’ll induce a spin downshifting to soon too fast.

Originally, at release, the MR GR3 cars had major weight shift problems entering tight turns, the RS01 was especially bad at turn 1 Nurb GP and Gardens at turn five (hairpin)
The cars rear would come around into a spin, and nothing could be done about it.
The mr car weight balance was completely broken.
They were undrivsble on the racing line through certain corners.
If you ask me, they’ve never really been right even though they patched the glaring issues with some of them via updates.
The 911GT3 drives well. It never had the issues like some of the others.
The R8 drives pretty well too, but imo most MR in GTS have the handling problems that have persisted even after the patches were done.
I can tell you as an FR GR3 user if I make the same inputs re trailing in I will spin most MR before adjusting the braking on turn in.
The cars don’t give me confidence in their handling in general, MR, that is in GTS.
I think other games makes some of these cars so META then you hit GR Sport and they get these handling quirks…
I almost never adjust brake bias. Default works best for my style almost always.

have u tried the citroen gt road car? i think that is pretty decent

 

[oneloops]

Engine braking can effect forward weight shift, which affects the balance and tire grip forward and aft and thus, rotation.
But, what many fast players do is compression lock the rears while downshifting to slide the rear and gain rotation on corner entry. Imo it’s an arcade technique, but when they get it right they can gain time.
It’s a little like pulling e brake on entry to help rotate. Not much reality to it.
In more simmy video games you’ll induce a spin downshifting to soon too fast.

Modern cars with modern clutchs systems (and modern motorbikes too) have a lot less issues with downshifting while cornering than old cars.

For example : this 911 cup dowshifting to 1st gear with the wheel turned 130° and over a kerb at time 2'20" :


Another example : David Perel downshifting to 1st gear with quite a big wheel input at turn 1 in SPA at time 4'49" :


I use downshifting in ACC while cornering without problems (the same in GTS) of course taking care on grip and rotation.

Also, in GTS some cars will spin downshifting to 2nd and to first gear while cornering near to the grip limit.
And in GTS or ACC or IRL, if you use downshifting too close to the apex you are loosing time , too late putting the first part of throttle in.

 

[Greycap]

How much of this is down to bad default setup, or just GT's physics engine, is hard to tell (probably a bit of both).

I'd say 80% bad setup and 20% physics engine. With a proper setup it's actually a very nicely handling car, still more demanding than many others but very drivable. And it doesn't even need anything weird in the settings, just some general softening to keep all wheels firmly on the ground and some LSD magic to calm the brake-throttle transition down.

 

[ScottPuss20]

When I drive the NSX GT3 in ACC, it's still twitchy on the limit, but trail braking works as it should and I don't have to turn my brain 180 degrees to drive it.

That's the best thing about ACC. A lot of guesswork is taken out of the equation because the car reacts as you expect. You'll get punished instantly if you get it wrong but at least you'll understand why. Some of the things that occur in GT Sport are strange and don't always make sense. Like the profuse understeer on corner exit.

In more simmy video games you’ll induce a spin downshifting to soon too fast.

Yeah that's because the driveline is locked.

 

[Groundfish]

Yeah that's because the driveline is locked.

Right, like I said in post 367.
To me there’s good, fundamentally sound input techniques (car control inputs)
Good inputs are pretty much fast in all games-what seperate the more simmy from more arcadey is basically how bad they punish poor inputs.
In arcade games you can get away with silly stuff that’s not allowed in simmy games.
In GTS you need high quality inputs to be consistently fast, but poor inputs won’t crash you out.

 

[oneloops]

Right, like I said in post 367.
To me there’s good, fundamentally sound input techniques (car control inputs)
Good inputs are pretty much fast in all games-what seperate the more simmy from more arcadey is basically how bad they punish poor inputs.
In arcade games you can get away with silly stuff that’s not allowed in simmy games.
In GTS you need high quality inputs to be consistently fast, but poor inputs won’t crash you out.

In ACC, for example, with safe preset settings you can do poor inputs without crashing out neither.

With that preset cars are almost glued to the tarmac and tolerate almost anything.

Compared to GTS, in ACC cars are more unstable after a contact with another car, which is a good point for ACC IMO.

 

[ScottPuss20]

In ACC, for example, with safe preset settings you can do poor inputs without crashing out neither.

With that preset cars are almost glued to the tarmac and tolerate almost anything.

Yes the standard setups are good but they aren't perfect.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

It's frustrating how the default setups make some cars harder to drive than others in GTS. It's like PD wants these cars to be for "expert only" drivers and the prestige associated with it (e.g. Ferrari). Just compare the Porsche Gr.3 and the Ferrari Gr.3. Both MR but handles worlds apart. The Porsche is quite understeery even. It makes people pick brands that are good to drive, but not necessarily one that they support. If all cars are more equal then we would see wider representation in Manu (and not just the same few brands that keep qualifying year after year).

IMO, GT could take inspiration from the safe/aggressive preset in ACC and expand it further:

• 3 presets for suspension/LSD (understeer, balanced, oversteer)
• 3 presets for downforce/gearbox (acceleration, balanced, top speed)
• 3 presets for power/weight BOP (hi power/weight, balanced, lo power/weight)

That makes 3x3x3=27 possible combinations for each car, and will increase the likelihood of someone finding a setting that suits them (without the complication of tuning themselves) and allows everyone to drive a brand they LIKE instead of one that is meta. Also, every car could be competitive across a wide variety of tracks and fuel/tyre multipliers, instead of lopsided races where the meta changes track to track. It's extra work on PD's part, but it's no more than testing and changing BOP every season. Plus we have lots of good tuners in the community that they can take inspiration from (e.g. the fortnightly time trials always have one tuned combo).

 

[ScottPuss20]

It's frustrating how the default setups make some cars harder to drive than others in GTS. It's like PD wants these cars to be for "expert only" drivers and the prestige associated with it (e.g. Ferrari). Just compare the Porsche Gr.3 and the Ferrari Gr.3. Both MR but handles worlds apart. The Porsche is quite understeery even. It makes people pick brands that are good to drive, but not necessarily one that they support. If all cars are more equal then we would see wider representation in Manu (and not just the same few brands that keep qualifying year after year).

IMO, GT could take inspiration from the safe/aggressive preset in ACC and expand it further:

• 3 presets for suspension/LSD (understeer, balanced, oversteer)
• 3 presets for downforce/gearbox (acceleration, balanced, top speed)
• 3 presets for power/weight BOP (hi power/weight, balanced, lo power/weight)

That makes 3x3x3=27 possible combinations for each car, and will increase the likelihood of someone finding a setting that suits them (without the complication of tuning themselves) and allows everyone to drive a brand they LIKE instead of one that is meta. Also, every car could be competitive across a wide variety of tracks and fuel/tyre multipliers, instead of lopsided races where the meta changes track to track. It's extra work on PD's part, but it's no more than testing and changing BOP every season. Plus we have lots of good tuners in the community that they can take inspiration from (e.g. the fortnightly time trials always have one tuned combo).

GT needs to provide some options rather than the one-size-fits-all setup. Some cars I wanted to race but couldn't because the standard setup didn't work for me. It's these strange decisions that I don't understand, why would you want to alter the handling characteristics for similar cars? I understand that there would be some differences but if you're fast in the Porsche, you should also be fast in the Ferrari. They have similar characteristics so you shouldn't have to change your technique. The fact that the Ferrari handles worse than the Porsche is confusing. Each car should have a "safe" setting out of the box so people are more comfortable driving their favourite car.

 

[Yard_Sale]

It’s funny that the last 2 posts specifically mention the GT3 Ferrari. That car is so difficult to drive it’s ridiculous. There’s no way that car is this difficult to drive in real life

 

[Shingo_civic]

It’s funny that the last 2 posts specifically mention the GT3 Ferrari. That car is so difficult to drive it’s ridiculous. There’s no way that car is this difficult to drive in real life

Yeah for some reason mid engine cars (especially race cars) handle really badly, i hope they fix this on GT7

 

[Yard_Sale]

The only MR I have issues with is the Ferrari. All the others, I can get along with fine. Actually, I prefer MR cars for group 3 FIA races because they tend to be better on tires

 

[JoeDaSnow]

As a result of horrible handling of the Lamborghini Huracan GT3, I have all but gave up using it in daily races. This is also the reason I never entered a point race using this car. It is also the reason I refused to choose Lamborghini in the Manufacturers Series.

 

[Lomic]

As a result of horrible handling of the Lamborghini Huracan GT3, I have all but gave up using it in daily races. This is also the reason I never entered a point race using this car. It is also the reason I refused to choose Lamborghini in the Manufacturers Series.

Yet the Lambo Huracan Gr4 is so nice, that's surprising.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

It’s funny that the last 2 posts specifically mention the GT3 Ferrari. That car is so difficult to drive it’s ridiculous. There’s no way that car is this difficult to drive in real life

It's not. The 488 GT3 in ACC handles like a dream. Granted it's a newer model but it's still similar. People have this misconception that every race car is out to kill you and only godly racing drivers can drive them. But modern GT3 cars with all its electronic aids are designed to be quite easy to drive. Lots of gentlemen drivers race them and they don't end up crashing every corner. Just youtube "vadim kogay monza" and see how far you can abuse these cars and they still won't bite.

Mostly the problem is just bad default setup. If you take a look at Prairano's garage in the tuning section he has a few tunes for the 458 that makes it a lot better. Not perfect, but at least it's not trying to kill you every corner.