GT Sport physics thread

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Have played 2-3h per week before, no intrest anymore. Waiting for better update đź‘Ť

Same here. Played the game daily, got a Pc and started playing other games, haven’t touched GTS in weeks. It is still installed, but I’ll likely uninstall in a couple of month when I need the space.

GTS Physics are in my personal experience sub par. The saving grace were the online aspect and especially FIA, which is a great concept. Online has been ruined by total and absolute mismanagement of the SR system by PD, taking away the sole reason to deal with the physics.

It is really tragic, because I remain convinced that regarding value for money and as a whole package GTS could be the greatest sim available. You’d have to spend €1000 on iRacing to get something that is comparable to GTS if GTS had better physics and SR system. ACC, Raceroom, PC2,... just can’t touch the GTS online infrastructure. Visually GTS is as good as anything available at the moment.

No dig at people that do enjoy GTS physics though, but the way they have changed over time and are today is just not for me.
 
Really agree here. Too early on the downshift hurts more abs weak has WAY more control, the game is rewarding good driving more imo, and punishing mistakes slightly more, Jmo.
People who like getting into detail should really read the in game breakdown on braking settings.
I believe they have enhanced abs weak a bit, and punished abs default slightly Jmo.
On abs weak, if you trail perfect you can really rotate some of the heavier more powerful cars even better than I thought!
I also think default tcs works slightly better at partial throttle on the cars I run but who knows if that’s true, most people blindly follow the tcs is evil mindset that seems inherent in sim racing as a unit.
You can also over cook things easier, bang the final downshift too soon and break traction too much and overrotate the car!
Pretty epic imo.

I used to get away with using TCS at 2; I can still do that with Gr. 4 cars but rarely with any Gr. 3 now ...I think I'm just going to set it at default.
 
The best tcs setting is the one that you drive best with. :)

more or less... but sometimes it may also denote that some aditional skill may be needed... to improve lap times... and use less TC ... Pros (not me) use TC 0 in practically any type of car (I sure don´t...)
 
Lots did already. Most of the discussions are on Twitter or Discord. Gonna put my summary here as well :

My theory about the update is they've just reduced air resistance and bumped the downforce multipliers in the background to compensate for cornering loss, with front tyres traction slightly increased and rear tyres traction slightly decreased.

Slisptream is still 1.5 back, but reduced, and progressive. Sadly the dirty air effect hasn't been reduced as much, and with high downforce cars (Gr.1 and SF19 were tested with extensive testing done prior the update for IGTL WS), you lose more from dirty air than you gain from slipstream, which will be a race killer. If you had a league planned with the Super Formula, cancel it. Gr.3 and under should be fine though.

Driving physics have changed accross the whole board, not only Gr.2, 3 and 4 as advertised. Overall the change seems quite positive to me, all cars I've driven so far feel nicer, with better turn in and less power understeer. I have noticed my braking points for last week's daily race B combo are more sketchy now (997 GT3 on Nurburgring with BoP on and SH tyres), I'm not sure if it's because I'm carrying more speed or if something has changed related to ABS (since I'm using +3 BB on the 997, it would fit with my traction theory).

As for tyre wear and fuel, I can't talk much about that myself. I just know we had to add one lap in IGTL SE2 because the R18 is now better on fuel, and I've heard comments about Gr.3 cars being closer to each other regarding fuel usage. Tyre wear, I'll let other people talk about their testing.
 
Lots did already. Most of the discussions are on Twitter or Discord. Gonna put my summary here as well :

My theory about the update is they've just reduced air resistance and bumped the downforce multipliers in the background to compensate for cornering loss, with front tyres traction slightly increased and rear tyres traction slightly decreased.

Slisptream is still 1.5 back, but reduced, and progressive. Sadly the dirty air effect hasn't been reduced as much, and with high downforce cars (Gr.1 and SF19 were tested with extensive testing done prior the update for IGTL WS), you lose more from dirty air than you gain from slipstream, which will be a race killer. If you had a league planned with the Super Formula, cancel it. Gr.3 and under should be fine though.

Driving physics have changed accross the whole board, not only Gr.2, 3 and 4 as advertised. Overall the change seems quite positive to me, all cars I've driven so far feel nicer, with better turn in and less power understeer. I have noticed my braking points for last week's daily race B combo are more sketchy now (997 GT3 on Nurburgring with BoP on and SH tyres), I'm not sure if it's because I'm carrying more speed or if something has changed related to ABS (since I'm using +3 BB on the 997, it would fit with my traction theory).

As for tyre wear and fuel, I can't talk much about that myself. I just know we had to add one lap in IGTL SE2 because the R18 is now better on fuel, and I've heard comments about Gr.3 cars being closer to each other regarding fuel usage. Tyre wear, I'll let other people talk about their testing.

To understand this right:

They reduced the Slipstream strenghts but the dirty air effect is the same? So that means Pole is all what matters now?

I mean its like F1 then but without DRS xD
 
Nearly. Dirty air is still reduced, but its impact hasn't decreased as much as in the case of slipstream. Mid pack battles will still happen, but the leader of a pack is untouchable in high downforce cars, unless there's a massive pace difference or a mistake is made.

Also they only changed real slipstream. Weak is still the same and ridiculously OP. With the R18 at Spa, while Jomas and Lewis couldn't get closer to each other than 8 tenths on real slipstream, they couldn't be further than 3 tenths from each other on weak.

On a sidenote, I'm not the only one to think braking has been affected by the physics change.
 
Are shredded tire "marbles" on the outside edge of the racing line factored in to the physics of GTS? (Or "clag" if you know who David Hobbs is...)
i know that the "groove" on track where there is more rubber and subsequently more traction is modeled to some degree at least so im also curious about this,does anyone have any insight into this subject?
 
I haven’t played GTS in about a month so this could all just be me, but I drove the Ferrari F40 and F50 around Bathurst and the feedback on G29 felt a bit lighter than usual for me and less tight but it was fine still, I didn’t mind. Now when I went and tried the GT3 Mustang and Mazda I noticed the Feedback increase and the steering was tighter and a bit heavier. I also noticed I felt more bumps through my wheel only slightly though but it was more than the road cars. Now, this could be because it’s a race car and not a road car. But like I said it’s been a full month since I played last so it could all just be me forgetting how the game felt last. Also, I raced GT3 Mercedes at Monza and at the Ascari Chicane last corner of Chicane I felt ZERO feedback or bumps everywhere else it was fine. This is a bug I believe. I posted a real-life pic you see the F1 car but it’s the next apex coming up in the picture that has 0 feedback for me.
 

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i know that the "groove" on track where there is more rubber and subsequently more traction is modeled to some degree at least so im also curious about this,does anyone have any insight into this subject?

There’s always less grip where the marbles are, but I think it’s more a matter of track camber, they are outside the racing line, as far as getting in there and picking up marbles onto the tires causing grip loss AFTER getting back online, doesn’t seem to be a thing.
They’ve definitely advanced further with the physics/tires this update. It’s not a huge dramatic change, just a little better, seems like the softer compounds have lost some lifespan (even more so if you are abusing them) and the ffb has a bit more info. When it lightens up a bit in a corner, you better not push things much more!
Also braking modulation is definitely worth it if you can do it, turning in is more detailed, but you have to be beyond average to discern what’s happening. It’s not a game you’ll enjoy if you are into bumpiness and lots of jitter artificially placed into ffb as imo too many games do.
 
Anyone else notice that the Mercedes F1 car doesn't really drive like a car? It's especially noticable at very slow speeds. Instead of changing directions following where the tires are planted the car just kind of rotates on a center pivot like a hover craft. The front of the car swings the opposite way before the front tires have even turned to that direction.

Try it out. At about 5mph with chase cam swerve left and right and observe how it behaves.
 
So, comparing GT6 to GT Sport driving physic, what is it?
About the same, slightly better, slightly worst, much better?
Sport psychics are better. Not sure how much though, since I don't have GT6 anymore, but judging by videos I saw and some simracing youtubers commenting on this subject, there seems to be a big difference, but not way too big.
 
I have to revive this thread because there's a fundamental element of the physics engine that's broken. And no, it's not ground effect this time. It's how rear drive cars rotate through a corner. You see, when you approach a corner and make your initial turn-in, the car will understeer because you are forcing a change in momentum. As the basic rule goes, something at rest will want to stay at rest and something that's moving will want to stay moving (in a constant direction). This will not change unless an equal or opposing force acts upon said object. Turning the steering wheel left or right will initiate this movement thus creating understeer. The initial rotation requires a lot of energy and tyres won't bite into the road properly until the forces even out. When you give the it some throttle, the car will want to oversteer because the power is going to the rear wheels. If you boot it too much you will spin but modulation will "steer" the car towards the inside of the corner without you needing to work the wheel very much. That's how it should work but not in GT Sport. If you increase the throttle midway through a turn, it will understeer like a front wheel drive or four wheel drive car. It shouldn't do that unless the setup is completely wrong or the tyres have worn out. I'm not saying that rear-drive cars can't understeer because they can, but it's at a different point in the corner compared to a front-drive car. I'm truly baffled by this. Why would you make a physics engine that doesn't function in a logical sense? A realistic physics engine that behaves in a logical way won't make the game harder to play, it'd make it easier. People wouldn't need to learn about any quirks or exploits - if they have a basic understanding of physics or car handling, they can play the game. Forcing people to rethink what they know adds an unnecessary barrier of complexity that isn't needed.
 
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I have to revive this thread because there's a fundamental element of the physics engine that's broken. And no, it's not ground effect this time. It's how rear drive cars rotate through a corner. You see, when you approach a corner and make your initial turn-in, the car will understeer because you are forcing a change in momentum. As the basic rule goes, something at rest will want to stay at rest and something that's moving will want to stay moving (in a constant direction). This will not change unless an equal or opposing force acts upon said object. Turning the steering wheel left or right will initiate this movement thus creating understeer. The initial rotation requires a lot of energy and tyres won't bite into the road properly until the forces even out. When you give the it some throttle, the car will want to oversteer because the power is going to the rear wheels. If you boot it too much you will spin but modulation will "steer" the car towards the inside of the corner without you needing to work the wheel very much. That's how it should work but not in GT Sport. If you increase the throttle midway through a turn, it will understeer like a front wheel drive or four wheel drive car. It shouldn't do that unless the setup is completely wrong or the tyres have worn out. I'm not saying that rear-drive cars can't understeer because they can, but it's at a different point in the corner compared to a front-drive car. I'm truly baffled by this. Why would you make a physics engine that doesn't function in a logical sense? A realistic physics engine that behaves in a logical way won't make the game harder to play, it'd make it easier. People wouldn't need to learn about any quirks or exploits - if they have a basic understanding of physics or car handling, they can play the game. Forcing people to rethink what they know adds an unnecessary barrier of complexity that isn't needed.

You’re lost.
You revived a worthless thread.
You are mistaken because you ignore weight shift.
When you turn into a corner you are not on the gas, but the brakes.
Lol that’s just to start but great work using a mistaken understanding of basic driving to imply the physics are broken.

I’m like maybe .4 off worlds best times in some of this game with everything default tcs 3.
Why?
Because Ross Bentley!!!!!
You can cry all you want about what you misunderstand or learn basic fundamentals.

All this physics crud lately. Pc console ACC none of it matters it’s a video game.
It’s a mere facsimile of real driving.
The entire sim community would be a better place if no one ever mentioned tge words physics or tire model ever again!
 
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You are mistaken because you ignore weight shift.
When you turn into a corner you are not on the gas, but the brakes.
That goes without saying and I figure you're smart enough to fill in the blanks yourself rather than insult me for not directly stating it, but anyway. How dare I suggest that driving games follow realistic physics. How dare you suggest that I misunderstand the basics of physics when I've been playing racing games for 14 years. I know what I am talking about and I was just trying to simplify a few things in order to get to the point of my argument. But what do I know?
 
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This is a great book to help understand the physics in play in race driving in simple laymen’s terms.
It’s truth translates not only to real world but also to racing sims very closely
12E2DADF-8CF6-4C00-851B-D9F35DF7B85E.jpeg
 
You’re lost.
You revived a worthless thread.
It's far from a worthless thread and nothing in the AUP bans people posting in old threads.

You are mistaken because you ignore weight shift.
When you turn into a corner you are not on the gas, but the brakes.
Lol that’s just to start but great work using a mistaken understanding of basic driving to imply the physics are broken.
Weight shift in GTS has issues, that's actually rather easy to see.

I’m like maybe .4 off worlds best times in some of this game with everything default tcs 3.
Why?
Because Ross Bentley!!!!!
which has little to do with supporting your argument.

You can cry all you want about what you misunderstand or learn basic fundamentals.
Do not attack other members, ad-hominem attacks are not permitted under the AUP.

All this physics crud lately. Pc console ACC none of it matters it’s a video game.
It’s a mere facsimile of real driving.
The entire sim community would be a better place if no one ever mentioned tge words physics or tire model ever again!
[/quote]
It's been a topic of discussion in the sim racing community since it existed, if you don't want to discuss it then don't. Every sim around has issues with its physics, as such they will be discussed, and that includes GTS.

This is a great book to help understand the physics in play in race driving in simple laymen’s terms.
It’s truth translates not only to real world but also to racing sims very closely
View attachment 1008931
It's a very basic book in terms of racing physics, spending as much time talking the mind-set of racing and the business aspect as it does physics and vehicle dynamics. Which is not a surprise as Bentley is best known as a performance coach in those areas.

IMG_2126.JPG


Nothing wrong with that, but it far more a basic introduction to vehicle dynamics that a definitive piece on it, I would suggest moving onto Goin' Faster by the Skip Barber Racing School next and then Race Car Vehicle Dynamics by Milliken and Milliken (which is the definitive reference source on the subject).

As an example of Speed Secrets limitations, lets take a look at what it covers on FWD cars...

IMG_2131.JPG


Less than a page, and is so basic as to not even cover the techniques unique to FWD race cars, let's take the line "Definitely, you can't be as harsh with the throttle to help overcome an error, as this will usually overload the front tyres.", which would be fine for racing a FWD road car (and not even all of them). However you take almost every FWD race series on the planet and they are deliberately set-up to be driven hard on the throttle, with almost no front ARB (or it removed entirely) to initiate massive amounts of lift-off oversteer and extremely aggressive LSD's designed to allow the throttle to pull the car around the corner. The technique to quite literally to initiate rotation under braking using the lack of rear grip, rotate the car (often on three wheels) and drag it around the corner using the throttle and LSD. Make a big mistake or get tapped into a spin, guess what you do to recover from that 'mistake', point the front wheels in the direction you want to go and bury the throttle (which has also been a FWD rally technique forever).

In this video Phil Glew covers exactly how you use this technique in FWD race cars (which he has raced) to overcome the natural tendency of FWD cars to understeer by doing the exact opposite of what Bentley suggests. It's important to note that Bentley isn't 'wrong', rather that it's a massive simplification of an entire area of racing driving technique.



Oh and if you want an example of what GTS gets wrong in terms of physics, then FWD race cars are one.
 
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fundamental element of the physics engine that's broken. And no, it's not ground effect this time. It's how rear drive cars rotate through a corner. You see, when you approach a corner and make your initial turn-in, the car will understeer because you are forcing a change in momentum. As the basic rule goes, something at rest will want to stay at rest and something that's moving will want to stay moving (in a constant direction). This will not change unless an equal or opposing force acts upon said object. Turning the steering wheel left or right will initiate this movement thus creating understeer. The initial rotation requires a lot of energy and tyres won't bite into the road properly until the forces even out. When you give the it some throttle, the car will want to oversteer because the power is going to the rear wheels. If you boot it too much you will spin but modulation will "steer" the car towards the inside of the corner without you needing to work the wheel very much. That's how it should work but not in GT Sport.

In GTS this pre apex work is all done on the brakes and how you come off them.
If you are turning then applying throttle pre apex you’re lost.
Further, in a rwd fr GT3, mid turn on tcs3 you can get a bit of on throttle rotation.
It’s very sensitive and you have to get the inputs right, but getting it right was one of the techniques I was using to diamond Lewis Hamilton at tcs3 brake balance zero.
You can feel within the ffb when you get it just perfect near the absolute limit.
In GTS getting to throttle pre apex in aFR GR3 will send you under steering out wide.
In GTS it’s because you overslow Ed the car, then added throttle taking weight and grip from the fronts.
In GTS you come in on brakes, smooth off while turning in keeping the car a bit loaded as you come to apex, THEN throttle, in GR3 FR.
I am sorry for making the unnecessary assuming rude stupid comments to you last night.
There was no call for that.
@Scaff
I’m sorry I acted like a disrespectful jerk.
As for FWD cars in GTS I’ve never been good with them except the Megane.
With Megane at Bathurst the way I was very fast in the 90 degree turns was braking very late standing it on the nose, then turning wheel and applying SLIGHT (just the right amount) of throttle which seemed to me to level the cars balance while getting best rotation in order to make it possible to go full throttle ASAP for the straights.
Tcs 3 was what I used, since in GTS the slightest amount too much throttle fries the front tires and feels horrible.
Those are what I found success with jmo
 
That goes without saying and I figure you're smart enough to fill in the blanks yourself rather than insult me for not directly stating it, but anyway. How dare I suggest that driving games follow realistic physics. How dare you suggest that I misunderstand the basics of physics when I've been playing racing games for 14 years. I know what I am talking about and I was just trying to simplify a few things in order to get to the point of my argument. But what do I know?
I agree , the physics in Gt Sport for me went backwards from Gt 6 and i didnt like those physics either .
All i will say is i drive way different in other sims compared to this game .

If i was the head of PD , i would hire the makers of Wreckfest to do the driving physics because it is so much fun .
 
In GTS this pre apex work is all done on the brakes and how you come off them.
If you are turning then applying throttle pre apex you’re lost.
Further, in a rwd fr GT3, mid turn on tcs3 you can get a bit of on throttle rotation.
It’s very sensitive and you have to get the inputs right, but getting it right was one of the techniques I was using to diamond Lewis Hamilton at tcs3 brake balance zero.
You can feel within the ffb when you get it just perfect near the absolute limit.
In GTS getting to throttle pre apex in aFR GR3 will send you under steering out wide.
In GTS it’s because you overslow Ed the car, then added throttle taking weight and grip from the fronts.
In GTS you come in on brakes, smooth off while turning in keeping the car a bit loaded as you come to apex, THEN throttle, in GR3 FR.
Look I understand that braking is important but that's not the problem I have. I would never apply throttle before an apex, that's just stupid so I don't know where you got that idea from. I'm not a dumbass when it comes to driving, so don't say that it's MY fault the physics are fundamentally flawed. I have played other games such as Project Cars 2, Dirt Rally and Assetto Corsa which seem more accurate in their depiction of real-world physics based on what I understand. In those games you can steer the car with the throttle rather than just the wheel (or in my case, analog stick), hence why I can manage tyres better in Project Cars 2 than GT Sport. In GT Sport I am shocking when it comes to tyre wear because I have to steer quite hard in order to reduce understeer. If I get on the power at the wrong time, it will increase the understeer further so it's hard to find a balance. I want to be fast and keep tyre wear to a minimum but it's not possible for me to do so unless I slow down. It makes life even harder for me in league racing. If you really want to understand what I'm on about, drive the McLaren Ultimate VGT. The handling characteristics are extremely odd and illogical for a mid-engined race car that supposedly has a lot of grip. It's unpredictable.
 
Look I understand that braking is important but that's not the problem I have. I would never apply throttle before an apex, that's just stupid so I don't know where you got that idea from. I'm not a dumbass when it comes to driving, so don't say that it's MY fault the physics are fundamentally flawed. I have played other games such as Project Cars 2, Dirt Rally and Assetto Corsa which seem more accurate in their depiction of real-world physics based on what I understand. In those games you can steer the car with the throttle rather than just the wheel (or in my case, analog stick), hence why I can manage tyres better in Project Cars 2 than GT Sport. In GT Sport I am shocking when it comes to tyre wear because I have to steer quite hard in order to reduce understeer. If I get on the power at the wrong time, it will increase the understeer further so it's hard to find a balance. I want to be fast and keep tyre wear to a minimum but it's not possible for me to do so unless I slow down. It makes life even harder for me in league racing. If you really want to understand what I'm on about, drive the McLaren Ultimate VGT. The handling characteristics are extremely odd and illogical for a mid-engined race car that supposedly has a lot of grip. It's unpredictable.
That is what bothers me on tight corners in this game , the line i would take in a real car is no where near the same in Gtsport.

The only time i can get the cars to steer with back tires on a rwd , is to put the car into a 4 wheel drift first , for some reason , it will then work as i expect a car to react but doing that is slow .
 
n GT Sport I am shocking when it comes to tyre wear because I have to steer quite hard in order to reduce understeer. If I get on the power at the wrong time, it will increase the understeer further so it's hard to find a balance. I want to be fast and keep tyre wear to a minimum but it's not possible for me to do so unless I slow down. It makes life even harder for me in league racing

I’m awesome at tire saving in GTS. I’d be happy to offer you my thoughts on the matter.
I’m generally angry overall at being forced to do pit stops I don’t need to in longer races in GTS...
I would be happy to offer you my best honest input re these matters anytime, especially since I already insulted you unnecessarily.
I’m sorry man.
One thing I do know very very well is GTS physics pertaining to fr gr3 and 4.
Mr too but not ALL mr.
Via pm if you like.
GTS steers with throttle and brake and no steering input at all, only shifting weight a bit if you are cornering with a bit of slip angle...
Fwiw being in a balanced neutral 4wheel bit of slip angle is fastest not some weird rear wheelspin move. Also turning the steering more is not the response you need to combat understeer in GTS.
If the drive wheels are spinning causing big wear too much you are losing lap time imo
 
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