GT Sport physics thread

[UnkaD]

The physics feel like an evolution on GT6. The biggest gripe I have is that there's no gradual loss of traction. Much like in GT4, car's either have traction or they don't. This is probably the biggest area of concern in GT's physics. Not to mention, many cars feel like the clutch is half on when there's traction loss. Very strange.

I'm currently having difficulty with this in tuning the Gr. 3 NSX. Trying the best to soften up the rear to increase grip and drive carefully, but at random times the rear tires just decide that they're made of plastic.

 

[Allgoldplease]

I'm currently having difficulty with this in tuning the Gr. 3 NSX. Trying the best to soften up the rear to increase grip and drive carefully, but at random times the rear tires just decide that they're made of plastic.

Yeah. ISR's review touched on the issue. The other problem is that the tyre's screech under pressure, but that is not an indication that they're on or about to be at their limit. It's very hard to tell when a car is at it's limit.

 

[Scalman2]

The physics feel like an evolution on GT6. The biggest gripe I have is that there's no gradual loss of traction. Much like in GT4, car's either have traction or they don't. This is probably the biggest area of concern in GT's physics. Not to mention, many cars feel like the clutch is half on when there's traction loss. Very strange.

Strange i fell gradual loss of traction its best feeling for me in gts. Nothing close how was in gt6. Was traction on or off and you loose car fast. Gts just give me enough time to react to traction loss its amazing. But im talking about road cars not some gt3 ones.

 

[GTP_federsch]

My two cents (honest opinion):

The following is my opinion after trying the demo with a G29 wheel, PS4 PRO. I transcribe a whatsapp message that I sent to my brother to share my feelings.

Well, I tried GT Sport. I recommend you to try it and evaluate it for yourself. The physics... I would divide it into three behaviors;
1. When you do everything right = arcade
2. When you demand your driving a little (let’s say going to controllable understeer and oversteer, demanding the limit of the car) looking for faster times = easy to manage and easy recovery
3. When you lost the car = simulation (because of uncontrollable situation, because it does not stop until you hit something, because it never stop like it would be)

I do not know what PD wanted to do, but in my opinion it is very bad. It does not even seem like you're driving a real car, you're going as if you're floating. The same braking points no matter what car. The sensations driving different cars... very bad I think, endowed each car with a personality but unreal. The rally physics, better not to mention. The FFB... nothing, it is elemental.

The demo... flaws everywhere. The graphics ... I do not understand them, bah... yes, I understand them, very simple to be able to compete and to lie with the 4K. I could not try with PSVR because it is not enabled (I can imagine why...)

My verdict; I do not know what they tried to do all this time but obviously it did not work for people like us and it's late, what I tried is what it is. Sadly, it seems to me, the worst of the saga ... you realize that it is not finished yet... the same story, it repeats again. Try it, you'll agree with what I say.

Greetings.

His answer;

Hahaha ... then I'll do it when I have time and I'm without anything else to do... incredible... or credible, considering that the game is not meant for us... LOL

(My brother and I like the physics of Assetto Corsa)

 

[Flaren89]

After the T300 homemade fix, I could test this out better.
Physic looks good, a sim that is also fun. Far behind Assetto Corsa and even more rFactor 2 (although I am one of those don't think the rF2 is 100% realistic despite the huge and complex physic), still quite realistic but doesn't want you to lose sanity for a good run.
The only thing I don't like is the utterly vibration when understeer. Ok it is done for novices to not let think they can steer more in understeer, but for a more seasoned driver like me is pretty bad, considering that I usually use bumpy-understeer to keep in check the speed mid-corner or to give a last slow in turn entrance if I feel I didn't brake enough. Doing that in case of need on AC and rF2 and although is not good for tyres wear, is still better than go out of the track.

 

[Scalman2]

Since when good or bad wheel support called physics?
So one wheel is better then other one with GTS . thats not game physics. Just wheel support. yes and some wheels just not work right as someone used to in other game. Then again no wheel will ever simulate what happens in real car. Games mostly make it way too hard to be interesting

 

[MaXKiLLz]

One thing that confuses me is there is a vid of Lewis Hamilton playing the same GT3 SLS in the demo I tried. In this vid at 1:29 he seems to fight the wheel for oversteer. Impossible to say if that is FFB but I certainly didn't get any. What wheel is that anyway? A T500?

Hamilton is being paid by Sony. He’ll say and do whatever they tell him. Doesn’t mean it’s true or correct. He’s only there to promote sales.

 

[Oizon21]

My two cents (honest opinion):
The demo... flaws everywhere. The graphics ... I do not understand them, bah... yesSadly, it seems to me, the worst of the saga ... you realize that it is not finished yet... the same story, it repeats again.

Beta and even few months after release are not the proper judgement points. Too many variables to adjust, too many variables to find.

 

[MK500]

- Tires generally seem to have too little grip. This affects all sorts of stuff:
-- Try accelerating from a stand-still with the N200 MX-5 without TCS and your wheels will spin like crazy, even in 2nd gear. IRL, a car with this little power won't have so much wheel spin.
-- Braking seems to take quite long, in particular getting down from 30 km/h to 0 km/h.
-- Very sudden over-steer when pushing hard in corners with RWD cars. Even the MX-5, which is supposedly very easy to drive IRL, snap-over-steers like crazy without TCS.

Thank you for explaining my exact experience much better than I could have. My daily driver IRL is an MX-5, and the MX-5 physics in-game are bizarre.

The race spec cars seem good; but the street cars seem to be half baked. Not a good showing compared to older games in the series.

 

[CodeCmdr]

I was able to make make the car handling in GTS feel a lot less "floaty" on my T150 by adjusting the following in-game settings:

Max. Torque (?): 1
Steering Sensitivity: 8 or 9

Steering Sensitivity in particular makes a big difference. I think with the default value of 5, the game requires too much wheel-angle-input, which results in the cars not turning in sharply enough when I expect more to happen. 8 feels realistic on the T150, and 9 feels a bit more race-spec oriented. 10 is a tiny bit too much.

Overall, I think braking is the worst part of the physics. It's really bad with the Honda Civic Type R daily race. Brake inputs of (in-game) 50% hardly do anything at all with that car! You always have to push down to 100% for anything to start happening. IRL, that car supposedly has a very hard-core setup, with very stiff suspensions and Brembo brakes, so I'd expect it to react immediately and without body roll when braking. But in GTS, it rolls and doesn't want to stop at all.

 

[ShiftingGears]

I like it (controller user).

 

[GordonS]

I was able to make make the car handling in GTS feel a lot less "floaty" on my T150 by adjusting the following in-game settings:

Max. Torque (?): 1
Steering Sensitivity: 8 or 9

Steering Sensitivity in particular makes a big difference. I think with the default value of 5, the game requires too much wheel-angle-input, which results in the cars not turning in sharply enough when I expect more to happen. 8 feels realistic on the T150, and 9 feels a bit more race-spec oriented. 10 is a tiny bit too much.

Overall, I think braking is the worst part of the physics. It's really bad with the Honda Civic Type R daily race. Brake inputs of (in-game) 50% hardly do anything at all with that car! You always have to push down to 100% for anything to start happening. IRL, that car supposedly has a very hard-core setup, with very stiff suspensions and Brembo brakes, so I'd expect it to react immediately and without body roll when braking. But in GTS, it rolls and doesn't want to stop at all.

Haven't tested yet but what are your speeds you are trying to stop the car? With abs you should press the pedal properly, irl anyway.

 

[CodeCmdr]

Haven't tested yet but what are your speeds you are trying to stop the car? With abs you should press the pedal properly, irl anyway.

I was racing the Civic on Brands Hatch, which has a lot of corners where you only need to reduce your speed slightly. I shouldn't need to do 100% braking on such corners, but it seems to me that in GTS anything other than 100% is very ineffective.

 

[Flaren89]

Since when good or bad wheel support called physics?
So one wheel is better then other one with GTS . thats not game physics. Just wheel support. yes and some wheels just not work right as someone used to in other game. Then again no wheel will ever simulate what happens in real car. Games mostly make it way too hard to be interesting

It is not wheel support, but wheel feeling. You think you can judge the physic using a controller that doesn't give you any information other than a vibration? With the "Hand of God" helping you keep the car in line (disabled at the time you use a wheel hopefully)? With the tweaks on inertia which are fully reproduced when using a wheel instead?
Oh well, good luck ..

 

[thegt500]

It is not wheel support, but wheel feeling. You think you can judge the physic using a controller that doesn't give you any information other than a vibration?

^ This for me hits the nail on the head ! There seem to be many wheel users unhappy with the feel of GT-S compared to pad users who're more accepting to it !
I suppose in isolation, GT-S's FFB / physics can be perceived as acceptable with a wheel, but when compared to pCARS 1 and 2 or Assetto Corsa it shows flaws !
For a self proclaimed "real driving simulator" I find it disappointing that a more satisfying "feel" can be found if a controller is used !

 

[praiano63]

I am not happy with the automatic clutch. You can even start in 3rd gear. I liked it more the way it was in GT6.
When you performed a standing start ,for a certain amount of torque and grip, you must have a small sweet spot where the car launch perfectly. A bit under the car stay stucked, above it spin the tires.

Also the lost of grip during accel out corner is too quick , almost immediate , This transition have to be more progressive.

EDIT:in my opinion this lost of grip that happen out corner under accel can be due to this auto clutch effect. Even low Differential value don t resolve the problem most of the time.

 

[Scaff]

Since when good or bad wheel support called physics?
So one wheel is better then other one with GTS . thats not game physics. Just wheel support. yes and some wheels just not work right as someone used to in other game.

That wheel support is patchy in GTS doesn't change the fact that the physics engine (again) has some very deep and clear flaws with it.

Nor does it excuse PD for not providing anything close to the tools that they should to allow it to be balanced for a range of wheels.

Then again no wheel will ever simulate what happens in real car.

Nonsense. Every wheel can, to a degree, simulate what happens in a real car. What it can't do it simulate it with 100% fidelity, but then again no one has claimed that it can.

You have presented a strawman in an attempt to excuse clear issues that other devs have worked around and managed.

Games mostly make it way too hard to be interesting

Opinion doesn't equal fact.

Beta and even few months after release are not the proper judgement points. Too many variables to adjust, too many variables to find.

Why not? This is after all the time period in which the majority will buy the title, and its not as if the flaws that have been found are hidden away, or even new to the series. Nor does the developer in question have a great track record of fixing them.

If they did I could agree a little more with you, but physics issues that have long been in the series are still present, what even more frustrating is that at least one of them they did fix (just not for a retail version), which was the drivetrain inertia and lack of rear torque steer from a standing start. At the Copper Box it was heading in the right direction, without the daft sit and spin the tyres and then take off in a poker straight line nonsense.

I was able to make make the car handling in GTS feel a lot less "floaty" on my T150 by adjusting the following in-game settings:

Max. Torque (?): 1
Steering Sensitivity: 8 or 9

Steering Sensitivity in particular makes a big difference. I think with the default value of 5, the game requires too much wheel-angle-input, which results in the cars not turning in sharply enough when I expect more to happen. 8 feels realistic on the T150, and 9 feels a bit more race-spec oriented. 10 is a tiny bit too much.

Overall, I think braking is the worst part of the physics. It's really bad with the Honda Civic Type R daily race. Brake inputs of (in-game) 50% hardly do anything at all with that car! You always have to push down to 100% for anything to start happening. IRL, that car supposedly has a very hard-core setup, with very stiff suspensions and Brembo brakes, so I'd expect it to react immediately and without body roll when braking. But in GTS, it rolls and doesn't want to stop at all.

The body roll isn't the main issue, in reality road cars (even stiff ones) roll a hell of a lot on track. Keep in mind that they are stiff for the road, not teh track. They are still soft and have a high ride height in comparison to a car designed specifically for the track. Oh and brakes don't stop a car, tyres do. Brakes slow the rotation of the wheels, but they can only do that at the limit the tyres allow.

Now while some issues do exist with the weight distribution in GTS's physics model, the main issue is once again (and PD why are we back at this again, for the third title in a row) the damn tyre model.

Mixed directional forces seem to throw it out of sorts to a huge degree, understeer in FWD cars comes across as if the diff is utterly knackered, onset of understeer is too rapid (and the FFB for it just plain wrong - regardless of wheel) and then too slow to recover from. The understeer itself seems to want to pull the car sideways, rather that in a widening arc (as it should). Oversteer has similar issues, with the tyres dropping off far too quickly, but now they have the added fun of being stupidly snappy on the return to grip.

That's without getting into the rally physics, as they can be summed up rather easily, they are simply broken; or the issues still present with the RR drivetrains.

Its a massive disappointment for me, as the Copper Box builds had shown clear signs of travel in the right direction, but this is a step backwards. Now PD could get away with this in the past, these kind of issues were to be expected given the technical limitations of the original PS and the PS2.

The start of the issues becoming a problem that couldn't be excused by technical limitations was Enthusia, which demonstrated what could be done at the end of the PS2's life (and I will admit I was slow to take off the rose tinted specs). When the PS3 came around we started to see more challenge to the accuracy of the physics, but fortunately for PD and Sony it was mainly on other platforms, the GT dominance hurting serious competition on the PS3.

We are now in a very different world, and what PD are still attempting to market on (the Real Driving Simulator) is demonstrable not true, and the competition makes that far more obvious than at any point in the series past.

Now do I think this will hold back sales of GTS? Not particularly, if anything the always on-line and lack of content will be much bigger factors for many, however they do make the claim of it being a full blown sim harder for PD to hold up.

 

[MaXKiLLz]

This game is not a sim. Not even close. Take it for what it is. An arcade racing game who’s target audience are adolescent teenagers. If you’re an older player, look at it as a fun “time waster”. Don’t spend money buying an expensive wheel hoping it’ll provide a better, more realistic experience. The DualShock control with motion steering is more than adequate to make the driving enjoyable.

 

[sejtur]

The transfer of weight is very realistic to me. The bigger cars in the game feel like my own car. Overall I really like the way the physics feel, realistic enough for me.

What I don't understand though, is why the game doesn't let me turn off TC...

 

[Scaff]

The transfer of weight is very realistic to me. The bigger cars in the game feel like my own car. Overall I really like the way the physics feel, realistic enough for me.

What I don't understand though, is why the game doesn't let me turn off TC...

Mine does.

Either at the car set-up screen or via in race adjustment.

 

[Scalman2]

This game is not a sim. Not even close. Take it for what it is. An arcade racing game who’s target audience are adolescent teenagers. If you’re an older player, look at it as a fun “time waster”. Don’t spend money buying an expensive wheel hoping it’ll provide a better, more realistic experience. The DualShock control with motion steering is more than adequate to make the driving enjoyable.

How age has to do anyhing with anything that i wanna play game. Im 20 or 40 or 50 it depends what i like and enjoy, not what my age is.
Physics in this game at least with controller mostly feels different from tires. Whos in real life driving in city with sport tires anyway.
So for me its so weird how comfort tires in this game feels like you on ice not asphalt. No car in real life drives so bad with city normal tires. So for that i dont even ask questions its just a game and i play it as it lets me. In real life you perfectly fine on streets with mx5 on city tires it goes amazing into corners and out of then. But nit in this game. So its nothing close to how car feels in real life . thats why i take it as game and i judge it just how much fun im having playing it. Too hard = no fun, too easy = no fun too. So its must be middle. Again talking about controller and hdtv,nothing else.

 

[ConnorWolf]

Overall, it's OK, but it feels very bland compared to PCars2 or iRacing.

- Tires generally seem to have too little grip. This affects all sorts of stuff:
-- Try accelerating from a stand-still with the N200 MX-5 without TCS and your wheels will spin like crazy, even in 2nd gear. IRL, a car with this little power won't have so much wheel spin.
-- Braking seems to take quite long, in particular getting down from 30 km/h to 0 km/h.
-- Very sudden over-steer when pushing hard in corners with RWD cars. Even the MX-5, which is supposedly very easy to drive IRL, snap-over-steers like crazy without TCS.

- Force-feedback is poor. There's hardly any feel for what the tires are doing, both with RWD and FWD cars. In PCars2 I feel exactly what's going on through the wheel; on GTS there's very little information. This makes countering snap-over-steer very hard.

- Suspensions and roll-bars are ultra-soft. All cars, even the Group 4 and 3 race-spec cars, are very soft. They also drive over curbs at high speeds without any fuss, whereas IRL cars would lose balance and spin out, or even lift off into the air.

In PCars2, I can drive fairly well without TCS, because when I get close to losing traction, I feel it and can react in time. In GTS, I don't know what's going on and I need TCS to drive consistently.

Update: I'm using a T150 wheel. Maybe PD implemented much better support for other wheels?

- Tires have too little grip: I would actually say the tire grip is about right, except at low speeds where the physics engine seems to not be implemented correctly in some way, low speed vs higher speed grip is entirely different, this is why the low power cars spin tires at low speeds so easily.
- Braking: This would also explain why braking takes longer the lower the speed gets, and why some cars can drift at partial throttle at 15mph or below on dry pavement. Above these speeds I think braking is quite good, since in GT6 you could stop in hilariously short distances that were not realistic at all in most cars just by throwing on different tires.

- Sudden oversteer: Personally, I think the oversteer is much more manageable than it was in GT6 and in most other Sims, although at times it happens at times I wouldn't normally anticipate. There seems to be a LOT more time and leeway with the throttle coming out of the corner now, like the tires actually have a slip ratio, unlike before. I have not felt the need for TCS in GTS except for the low-speed start license tests, where it gets you immediate gold, when doing it without TCS it is extremely hard to get gold and you need to start in 2nd at full throttle, then downshift to 1st after about 15ft... it's bizzare. Also the comfort tires fall victim to this weird low-speed grip constantly as their cornering speeds enter this range all the time. Another thing I have noticed about oversteer is sometimes the cars, even cars with a lot of torque, will bog down mid-corner when drifting at low slip angles, causing understeer. This is with TCS 0 and already past peak grip... but it doesn't happen all the time. It DOES seem to happen all the time in the shifter kart at very low slip angles which are around it's peak grip, making it not really fun to me anymore...

-Suspension too soft: Possibly, but I think it's more of the damping is still "too good", the cars don't bounce enough so you don't feel the stiffness the same way, which is why they deal with curbs fairly well. I have managed to definitely make the Gr.4 Corvette lift a tire over curbs causing me to have a huge moment, so the cars are not immune to this, just a little too well damped and maybe too forgiving on the factory setups. I haven't messed with setups yet to see if this stays the same as you increase spring rate.

-Force Feedback: With my T300, apart from the vibration as you approach peak grip slip angle (which I thought was a feature not a bug, it did get very weird at not accurate feeling though...) the feedback is better than GT6 and in some cars feels a LOT like LFS to me, which is saying a lot for me. I never played enough AC or PC1 to get used to their FFB, they both had some really weird physics that annoyed me more than GT which is just dull by comparison but relatively accurate. Some cars still have a lot less feel than I would expect, especially related to steering weight/grip vs weight shift to the front axle. I feel like holding large slides is still quite easy, probably too easy if I'm making saves after running on the curb down the mountain in AUS and going fully 90 degrees...

 

[CodeCmdr]

Mine does.

Either at the car set-up screen or via in race adjustment.

With the Group 4 cars, turning traction control down to 0 only feels like it's reduced, but not completely turned off.

Strangely, a lot of lower-powered road cars such as the MX-5 or the Civic Type R have MUCH more wheel-spin than the more powerful Group 4 cars. The more I play GTS, the more wacky the physics seem to me.

I would actually say the tire grip is about right, except at low speeds where the physics engine seems to not be implemented correctly in some way, low speed vs higher speed grip is entirely different, this is why the low power cars spin tires at low speeds so easily.

Yup. Group 4 and Group 3 cars feel alright, but most road cars have no grip at all.

I did a Challenge mission today on the Alsace road with a Peugeot 208 GTI (N200, I think), and holy cow it grips extremely badly! I couldn't even drive through wide, high-radius corners at 100 km/h with that thing, which is totally unrealistic. I've driven a Peugeot 206 and a Mazda 2 with 7+ year old road tires on twisty roads at 100 km/h IRL, so I have a good idea of what a 208 GTI should be capable of.

 

[Scalman2]

Does race cars made to have as much traction as they can . thats why you no wheel spin them so much. But m4 wheels spins everywere like crazy .
And road comfyish cars as mx5 designed differently.
Torque spins wheels and m4 or mersedes just have too much torque they so sensitive on wheel spining from corners. Other even more powerfull cars do it differently. Thats why all cars are made as different characters. And then there is race cars who are just made for tracks and as much same as they can be .
In real life every sportyish road car have so different characters from each other and they are so different to drive. Video games most of them just make cars different by power driveline and tires and other games gives us something little special to cars. Without tuning without nothing changed you should feel how every car is different animal or beast. Its not close to real life still but some games gives just that deeper level.

 

[Scaff]

Does race cars made to have as much traction as they can . thats why you no wheel spin them so much. But m4 wheels spins everywere like crazy .
And road comfyish cars as mx5 designed differently.
Torque spins wheels and m4 or mersedes just have too much torque they so sensitive on wheel spining from corners. Other even more powerfull cars do it differently. Thats why all cars are made as different characters. And then there is race cars who are just made for tracks and as much same as they can be .
In real life every sportyish road car have so different characters from each other and they are so different to drive. Video games most of them just make cars different by power driveline and tires and other games gives us something little special to cars. Without tuning without nothing changed you should feel how every car is different animal or beast. Its not close to real life still but some games gives just that deeper level.

Sorry but no.

While it is true that race cars gave much more grip than road cars (when the tyres have heat in them, something GTS seems to forget), the tyres are still way out in GTS as are a number of other things.

To get a good picture of this just take a GT86 around brands hatch, set the TC to 1 and drive as if you were on the way back from shopping.

Taking corners at 30mph in 5th will trigger the TC, which is utter and complete nonsense. You just have to breath on the throttle at low revs in a high gear to trigger it.

I'm sorry, but it's just wrong.

 

[Scalman2]

Sorry but no.

While it is true that race cars gave much more grip than road cars (when the tyres have heat in them, something GTS seems to forget), the tyres are still way out in GTS as are a number of other things.

To get a good picture of this just take a GT86 around brands hatch, set the TC to 1 and drive as if you were on the way back from shopping.

Taking corners at 30mph in 5th will trigger the TC, which is utter and complete nonsense. You just have to breath on the throttle at low revs in a high gear to trigger it.

I'm sorry, but it's just wrong.

That i agree with sure. Tires dont represent what they should at low speeds. But i found same in all racing games. They kinda think we all will just wanna race cars at high speeds. And then you check cars at low speeds and they broken so much . assetto broken in that point beyong believe. All good and dandy with racing tired and racing cars there. . gt 86 i didint like in gts at all. Feels like wrong car something not right with it. Too much loose and unstable to drive.some cars impossible to compete with hard tires . drive sure but compete for time laps they so bad. But no race game does that right for me . so its hard to just blame gts for that. In a way forza cars easier to drive in all so it could be more enjoyable even with some cars.

 

[Scaff]

That i agree with sure. Tires dont represent what they should at low speeds. But i found same in all racing games. They kinda think we all will just wanna race cars at high speeds. And then you check cars at low speeds and they broken so much . assetto broken in that point beyong believe. All good and dandy with racing tired and racing cars there. . gt 86 i didint like in gts at all. Feels like wrong car something not right with it. Too much loose and unstable to drive.some cars impossible to compete with hard tires . drive sure but compete for time laps they so bad. But no race game does that right for me . so its hard to just blame gts for that. In a way forza cars easier to drive in all so it could be more enjoyable even with some cars.

Low speed tyre physics are not broken in every other similar, and AC certainly isn't broken to the degree you are suggesting either.

The physics in GTS has some serious issues, something you seem to be attempting to either minimise or suggest is common to all sims.

The later point is demonstrably untrue.

I've just driven the GT86 is PC2, AC and GTS around Brands, only one of the three is exhibiting this low speed tyre issue, only one of these three is triggering the TC the second you look at the throttle.

 

[Reds Deman]

Trouble with physics is it is so subjective , also tyre composition plays a huge part and who is right and who is wrong ?

Developers are trying to replicate nature with maths and a game engine , which in my view is impossible .

What you get is a representive presentation of a developers philosophy in car physics so for some people per game its great and others its bad!

Take for instance Project cars , the dash moves up and down to represent bumps in the road . Yet in real life my body feels the bump but my eyes and brain dont , it compensates for it and presents my eyes a smooth vision of the road .

I love all these games and i'm not doing Project cars down , the dash moving is a great representation to me that there is a bump in the track but in real life my dash doesnt move that way and nor does my vision so its a gamey add on .

This conversation is fascinating , the discussion could go on and on and i dont think anyone is right or wrong !

 

[ImaRobot]

Trouble with physics is it is so subjective

No, it really isn't.

 

[Reds Deman]

No, it really isn't.

Hmmm ok you won that argument then !