GT Sport physics thread

[ImaRobot]

Hmmm ok you won that argument then !

Lol.. physics aren't subjective. The way people perceive is different because of lack/abundance of knowledge on the subject not because the physics are different from person to person.

 

[Reds Deman]

Lol.. physics aren't subjective. The way people perceive is different because of lack/abundance of knowledge on the subject not because the physics are different from person to person.

Ok your telling me Project Cars , GT Sport , I Racing all have the same views on physics then ? Or do they have differing lack/Abundance of knowledge ?

 

[ImaRobot]

Ok your telling me Project Cars , GT Sport , I Racing all have the same views on physics then ? Or do they have differing lack/Abundance of knowledge ?

Yes, and how they chose to make their game is entirely up to them. There is boundaries so they'll have to decide how, and what, they implement and what they don't. Otherwise there would be no difference from real life to these video games.

 

[Reds Deman]

Yes, and how they chose to make their game is entirely up to them. There is boundaries so they'll have to decide how, and what, they implement and what they don't. Otherwise there would be no difference from real life to these video games.

Well i kind of agree with you there , physics are a constant in real life . Yet they have to be translated to a game . What if a developer basis physics on Pirelli and the other Michelin ? And what if they have a different view on how they perform ?

I would say it's not that black and white .

 

[Scalman2]

One driving with wheel will have different feels to everything then me with controller. For me let physics be not quite to realistic side but if they be more to enjoyable side then its best. Playing game is not job and shouldnt be hard as hrs and hrs grinding. Kaz said himself that driving car is not hard. Somehow driving some cars in game is not easy. Well all much easier with tc on sure
If someone will tell me that some game have best physics ever but for me it just sucks so its sucks . its no matter . and i love driving cars in real life its my pasion and they drives so much simplier and easier in real life. Jusy because you feel just everything that car does and such. Here they must give us some kind of feelings via simple controller. In most part peopel good at games good at lap times just because they know and they learn how game works not because they know physics. Same as race drivers i would asume just one thing race drivers drive one car for month and years same car every day all days long same same same. Noone does that in game it would be just too boring.

 

[ImaRobot]

Well i kind of agree with you there , physics are a constant in real life . Yet they have to be translated to a game . What if a developer basis physics on Pirelli and the other Michelin ? And what if they have a different view on how they perform ?

I would say it's not that black and white .

Then you'd be very much wrong. World physics don't change because of what wheels used. There's still a constant. It's either happening correctly in comparison to real life or it's not, and that would make it wrong either by intention, or not.

Kaz said himself that driving car is not hard

Driving a car isn't hard. Driving a car at it's limits is, and some more so than others

 

[Reds Deman]

Then you'd be very much wrong. It's either happening correctly in comparison to real life or it's not, and that would make it wrong either by intention, or not.

Ok so which game has it exactly correctly then ?

 

[ImaRobot]

Ok so which game has it exactly correctly then ?

None.

 

[Reds Deman]

Ok so its a subjective thing then ?

 

[Dan Vincent]

I find the physics to be fun for an arcade racing game. I’m actually enjoying driving the Nordschleife with the DualShock in motion steering mode. Never thought that could be possible. This is coming from a person who uses an OSW direct drive wheel in iRacing.

Turn off all the driving aids and get back to me on that arcade racer statement..

 

[ImaRobot]

Ok so its a subjective thing then ?

How you got that from my posts I have no idea. No, it would make it the complete opposite. Physics are an absolute, it's up to the developers how they take that absolute and put it into the game.

 

[Scalman2]

What you drive in real life with one hand relaxed in game you must work hard to make car stable in straight road.at least for some cars in some racing games its the case. Crazy shaky camera or super stable one, helmet camers or no camera movement. We have that all in different games. And for some feels good ones and for others other thing. I like to experience something cool in game feel some thrills pleasure or get adrenaline, not from game beeing too much realistic.
Then what we call realistic physics. It could be realistic and boring as hell. Who would want that
Some cars are jusy easy to drive in real lofe. Its not arcade physics, some cars could jusy be as that easy for real with tc on . all cars have tc and all uses that and have fun still. Well if you wanna die sure turn tc off on roads on high speeds. Lets see how u die. Even car makers on some models telling to not turn tc off. Its just in games we have that bravely to do things crazy way

 

[ImaRobot]

What you drive in real life with one hand relaxed in game you must work hard to make car stable in straight road.at least for some cars in some racing games its the case.

Again, you're comparing driving a car everyday to flying down a track at wide opened throttle. It's not the same thing. Drive at normal traffic conditions in a racing game and you'd be able to drive with one hand too.

 

[Reds Deman]

How you got that from my posts I have no idea. No, it would make it the complete opposite. Physics are an absolute, it's up to the developers how they take that absolute and put it into the game.

So the developers subjectively create a game from absolute physics and have their own take on it ?
I'm just asking you the question as you said physics wasnt subjective .

 

[Grandi]

So the developers subjectively create a game from absolute physics and have their own take on it ?
I'm just asking you the question as you said physics wasnt subjective .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulation

 

[ImaRobot]

So the developers subjectively create a game from absolute physics and have their own take on it ?
I'm just asking you the question as you said physics wasnt subjective .

They create a game using objective real life information, and choose what they put in from that information either correctly, incorrectly, or not at all. There is nothing subjective about the information they gather, the difference is from their understanding, or design choices.

 

[thegt500]

I think this "abundance of knowledge" depends on your real world knowledge of has a car reacts in a given situation !
With GT-S understeer is perceived to give you a harsh vibration which worsens the more you turn in. In reality, any car that understeers to a great extent will loose grip and ultimately go light on the steering ! It's unnatural and IMHO, unneeded in a self proclaimed "real driving simulator" ! The physics and "feel" should be good enough to tell you you're pushing too hard so you can react / adjust your inputs to make the turn, not have "the hand of God" step in and bail you out !

 

[Scalman2]

Again, you're comparing driving a car everyday to flying down a track at wide opened throttle. It's not the same thing. Drive at normal traffic conditions in a racing game and you'd be able to drive with one hand too.

Kinda yes but gts have so bad speed sensation inside cockpit that it feels so slow.
But i agree. Still mx5 is tested in real life with not sportd tires but just city tires and its drives amazing. In game its made too hard pick comfort tires and car no wanna drive at all.

I wonder who have real life knowledge of all cars that are in racing games. Noone.
in real life im enjoying and loving same car for years and years and its never gets boring.
In game you need many cars and many tracks to make you interested.
In real life if i could get and drive on even one of those famous tracks with normal car well subaru its not just ordinary normal car but ok. So anyone would love that track and would drive it for hrs and hrs. In game its mehhh give me new track.
How i did in GTS i turned off all hud .everything off . i had no info of track or other cars or number laps even. Notin. I see track first time and i drive tc off and hard tires. Well thats what i call fun .

 

[Reds Deman]

They create a game using objective real life information, and choose what they put in from that information either correctly, incorrectly, or not at all. There is nothing subjective about the information they gather, the difference is from their understanding, or design choices.

I think i already said physics was a constant and developers translate from REAL physics to create a game . We basically agree on the same thing to be honest it's just getting lost in the discussion .

One day we'll get the full simulation but for now we'll have to make do , as you said , no game is true to life .

 

[ImaRobot]

I think i already said physics was a constant and developers translate from REAL physics to create a game . We basically agree on the same thing to be honest it's just getting lost in the discussion .

One day we'll get the full simulation but for now we'll have to make do , as you said , no game is true to life .

If you keep saying physics are subjective, than no we don't agree. Otherwise, I agree with what you just said.

 

[Reds Deman]

If you keep saying physics are subjective, than no we don't agree. Otherwise, I agree with what you just said.

Lol the translation of physics is subjective , physics themself are not i agree .

 

[Johnnypenso]

Lol the translation of physics is subjective , physics themself are not i agree .

Finally!!

 

[Scalman2]

Game can simulate everything perfectly in game . but if you will control car with keyboard you will feel notin. Physics in game done well is not all there is. Our feelings and senses must be connected to that somehow to feel that
So for me if i cant save car when its starts loosing traction its fail. Its bad and its teach you notin. Thats why devs trying to gives us that sense of control over cars. If its done right its so enjoyable that you wanna drive and drive and drive. Its video game

 

[Allgoldplease]

General rule of thumb with GT physics (since GT4) has been:

Great weight transfer
Terrible traction loss physics

 

[Scaff]

So the developers subjectively create a game from absolute physics and have their own take on it ?
I'm just asking you the question as you said physics wasnt subjective .

Physics are not subjective and the degree that a developer gets it right can also be objectively measuered.

For example in reality when you turn into a corner the steering resistance will increase as the tyre fights to re-align itself (this is called self aligning torque), this resistance will build up to a certain point (the slip limit of the tyre) after which it will reduce (rapidly) and the steering will go very light (and at this point you still build grip for a few degrees of slip after that you will loose it).

If a sim models this correctly then we should feel that via the steering, most do, GTS however at the point the steering should see resistance drop off massively starts to shake the wheel. That is objectively incorrect.

Another example is that of drivetrain interia and rear wheel torque steer. Even on a totally flat surface when you launch a RWD car from a standing start you should get a degree of step out at the rear. If a sim doesn't do this then its objectively wrong.

The only subjective area in these is if a sim models them, then how accurate they are in terms of fidelity.

General rule of thumb with GT physics (since GT4) has been:

Great weight transfer
Terrible traction loss physics

Yes and no.

Weight transfer has been OK for RWD and MR cars, but not for RR and FWD. RR being by far the worse of the two and just plain wrong in every GT to date.

 

[Reds Deman]

Physics are not subjective and the degree that a developer gets it right can also be objectively measuered.

For example in reality when you turn into a corner the steering resistance will increase as the tyre fights to re-align itself (this is called self aligning torque), this resistance will build up to a certain point (the slip limit of the tyre) after which it will reduce (rapidly) and the steering will go very light (and at this point you still build grip for a few degrees of slip after that you will loose it).

If a sim models this correctly then we should feel that via the steering, most do, GTS however at the point the steering should see resistance drop off massively starts to shake the wheel. That is objectively incorrect.

Another example is that of drivetrain interia and rear wheel torque steer. Even on a totally flat surface when you launch a RWD car from a standing start you should get a degree of step out at the rear. If a sim doesn't do this then its objectively wrong.

The only subjective area in these is if a sim models them, then how accurate they are in terms of fidelity.

Ok fair enough and good argument , what about tyre models then ?

 

[PzR Slim]

Ok fair enough and good argument , what about tyre models then ?

The GTS tyre model is a complete mess. It's hard to know where to begin with it.

 

[Reds Deman]

The GTS tyre model is a complete mess. It's hard to know where to begin with it.

Most sim tyre models are a mess though , i'm not defending GTS , but where do we start and stop with this discussion . I've not played a single game that gets it all completely right . GTS is one of the worst in fact , the grip loss is bloody awful when braking to be fair .

 

[Scaff]

Ok fair enough and good argument , what about tyre models then ?

An experiment for you.

Take a Toyota GT86 to Brands Hatch, set the TC to 1 and take it for a drive.

Now not a fast lap, as if you were driving to the shops. So low revs, high gears and low speed, say 30 to 40 mph in 5th gear.

Notice that the TC is still going mad every time you corner or you even touch the throttle.

Now I've taken a few GT86s for test drives and even on wet roads they have never done this, let alone on a bone dry, rubbered in race track.

Most sim tyre models are a mess though , i'm not defending GTS , but where do we start and stop with this discussion . I've not played a single game that gets it all completely right . GTS is one of the worst in fact , the grip loss is bloody awful when braking to be fair .

I disagree.

Most have certain issues, but are far from a mess. The AC and PC2 tyre models are both actually damn good.

Perfect? No, But one hell of a lot closer to reality than GTS. They t the very least get far more than the basics right, which in its current state GTS fails to do.

 

[Reds Deman]

An experiment for you.

Take a Toyota GT86 to Brands Hatch, set the TC to 1 and take it for a drive.

Now not a fast lap, as if you were driving to the shops. So low revs, high gears and low speed, say 30 to 40 mph in 5th gear.

Notice that the TC is still going mad every time you corner or you even touch the throttle.

Now I've taken a few GT86s for test drives and even on wet roads they have never done this, let alone on a bone dry, rubbered in race track.

Yes i have noticed that in the game the tc goes a but crazy .

An experiment for you.

Take a Toyota GT86 to Brands Hatch, set the TC to 1 and take it for a drive.

Now not a fast lap, as if you were driving to the shops. So low revs, high gears and low speed, say 30 to 40 mph in 5th gear.

Notice that the TC is still going mad every time you corner or you even touch the throttle.

Now I've taken a few GT86s for test drives and even on wet roads they have never done this, let alone on a bone dry, rubbered in race track.


I disagree.

Most have certain issues, but are far from a mess. The AC and PC2 tyre models are both actually damn good.

Perfect? No, But one hell of a lot closer to reality than GTS. They t the very least get far more than the basics right, which in its current state GTS fails to do.

I will have to purchase PC2 and give it a go