GT Sport's New Wet Tokyo Track is Coming in the Next Four Weeks

6,232
Canada
Canada
Kaz is a photography nerd so he knows exactly how he wants the game to look.
Physics engine is something else entirely.I dont think the physics and light engine are the same thing,different tech for different stuff.GTA 5 has beautiful lightning but that doesnt translate to the car physics.


You still have less track side detail because you cant see everything like you can in day time.Its a common thing for devs to put fog and other stuff to mask a poor draw distance GTA San Andreas used motion blur to hide texture loading in the distance.
I thought the same principle would apply to gtsports night conditions,maybe not...
That’s just it though...light is physics. The laws of physics that make a car stick to the road and bounce over curbs are the same physics that cause light to reflect off a puddle. I’m saying it’s odd to have a “lighting engine” and a “physics engine” when both would be modelling the same laws.
 
121
Lucas180
I get that some people like wet weather driving but for the life of me, I can't understand why.

How can you enjoy it?:confused:


i can try to explain...for me anyways.

definitely nobody would want to go to a rainy track day if they had the choice. in the perfect gt sport world why would you add rain to an otherwise sunny day? I get it. you want to be able to go 10/10ths all the time, but rain forces you to drive in a slower more methodical way.

driving in the rain can be more tactical and slower pace but it brings out skills in a different way. patience and throttle control become bigger issues...and although i dont think gt sport does this..in real life there is a so called "wet racing line" where you have to drive the car slightly off the normal racing line due to it being "rubbered up" and much more slippery then normal.

nothing is better or worse about rain. its just different.
 
1,527
vspectra06
vspectra06
That’s just it though...light is physics. The laws of physics that make a car stick to the road and bounce over curbs are the same physics that cause light to reflect off a puddle. I’m saying it’s odd to have a “lighting engine” and a “physics engine” when both would be modelling the same laws.

It isn't the same though. Light has no mass; it's a particle and a wave form. There are varying branches of physics and not all apply to everything in terms of how stuff works. Plus rendering light in games doesn't involve any kind of physics calculations, you can literally just "paint" the lighting into textures which is how games have been made since textures became a thing. GTSport uses baked GI lightmaps which is just a chart-type data structure that gets stored into texture maps for later use.
 
2,775
England
England
kilesa4568
i can try to explain...for me anyways.

definitely nobody would want to go to a rainy track day if they had the choice. in the perfect gt sport world why would you add rain to an otherwise sunny day? I get it. you want to be able to go 10/10ths all the time, but rain forces you to drive in a slower more methodical way.

driving in the rain can be more tactical and slower pace but it brings out skills in a different way. patience and throttle control become bigger issues...and although i dont think gt sport does this..in real life there is a so called "wet racing line" where you have to drive the car slightly off the normal racing line due to it being "rubbered up" and much more slippery then normal.

nothing is better or worse about rain. its just different.

It doesn't unfortunately. There's no extra grip off the racing line so you have to use the regular racing line. The point of a wet race to me is the different lines it can open up and the RBR fell flat on its face for that.

Thanks for answering though.:cheers:
 
6,232
Canada
Canada
It isn't the same though. Light has no mass; it's a particle and a wave form. There are varying branches of physics and not all apply to everything in terms of how stuff works. Plus rendering light in games doesn't involve any kind of physics calculations, you can literally just "paint" the lighting into textures which is how games have been made since textures became a thing. GTSport uses baked GI lightmaps which is just a chart-type data structure that gets stored into texture maps for later use.
Light has no mass, but it is effected by gravity the same as a car is.

Also, unless I’m completely misunderstanding physics, all branches of physics do apply to everything...that’s the whole point of “the theory of everything”. The physics at the center of the galaxy are the same physics in the center of a single atom, just on a different scale.

I agree that GT games simply “paint” the lighting, which would explain why nothing in GT games is dynamic. They’re not actually simulating light and gravity, their “painting” are artistic rendering of an approximation of how light and gravity behave.

I guess I’m coming at it from that angle that if you were to actually simulate light and gravity, both would operate from the same engine.
 
1,527
vspectra06
vspectra06
Light has no mass, but it is effected by gravity the same as a car is.

Also, unless I’m completely misunderstanding physics, all branches of physics do apply to everything...that’s the whole point of “the theory of everything”. The physics at the center of the galaxy are the same physics in the center of a single atom, just on a different scale.

I agree that GT games simply “paint” the lighting, which would explain why nothing in GT games is dynamic. They’re not actually simulating light and gravity, their “painting” are artistic rendering of an approximation of how light and gravity behave.

I guess I’m coming at it from that angle that if you were to actually simulate light and gravity, both would operate from the same engine.

How gravity (newtonian physics) affects a car versus light is not the same, this is why Quantum Mechanics became a thing. Gravity actually has no affect on light when viewed as wave. Newtonian physics is just what we use to explain mechanical forces for things we can see and stuff that doesn't travel super fast. Newtonian physics completely breaks for subatomic particles and anything that travels at the speed of light. Light itself is innately quantum, a photon is subatomic.
 
37,982
Australia
The Bronx
I watched part of this year's 24h of SPA on tv. The day, the only moment you could tell which car was which, was during safety car period. The night you could just see lights moving in clouds of rain. It felt like wasted time.

I don't know if I would do more than one lap of a night+heavy rain condition in the game. Is it even fun ?
Night+rain isn't in GTS. I did drive in the night+rain in GT6. At Nurb24, with glare from the car ahead, it was hard to see anything. For me, I like driving in the rain in real life. So, it was part of the immersion.

It depends on each individual. No law saying anyone has to drive at night+rain in a game. I'm not sure if night+rain will be in GT Sport.
 
2,331
England
Reading
cutback73
How gravity (newtonian physics) affects a car versus light is not the same, this is why Quantum Mechanics became a thing. Gravity actually has no affect on light when viewed as wave. Newtonian physics is just what we use to explain mechanical forces for things we can see and stuff that doesn't travel super fast. Newtonian physics completely breaks for subatomic particles and anything that travels at the speed of light. Light itself is innately quantum, a photon is subatomic.

As a wise man once (didn't actually) say:

Ye canne change the laws of physics :lol:
 
6,232
Canada
Canada
How gravity (newtonian physics) affects a car versus light is not the same, this is why Quantum Mechanics became a thing. Gravity actually has no affect on light when viewed as wave. Newtonian physics is just what we use to explain mechanical forces for things we can see and stuff that doesn't travel super fast. Newtonian physics completely breaks for subatomic particles and anything that travels at the speed of light. Light itself is innately quantum, a photon is subatomic.

I know we’re getting a bit off topic for the thread here, but I’m genuinely curious about this kind of stuff.

What about General Relativity and the “Einstein Effect”, light bending around objects with mass and gravity. Where does that fit into the picture, is that Newtonian or Quantum?

If someone was to try to simulate light in a game like GT, as opposed to “painting” it on a static scene, would simulated light come from the same engine as the simulated Newtonian physics, or a separate engine?

What about a dynamic model of water, ie, rain is actual water droplets that fall, pools of water splash when driven through, the water flows downhill, etc. I would assume that would all be Newtonian physics....but at what depth of simulating the water, let’s say down to the individual molecule, would you cross from Newtonian to Quantum? And if simulating water to that level, would it come from the same engine that is simulating light, or a different one?
 

GTV0819

(Banned)
6,084
Papua New Guinea
Papua New Guinea
It doesn't unfortunately. There's no extra grip off the racing line so you have to use the regular racing line. The point of a wet race to me is the different lines it can open up and the RBR fell flat on its face for that.

Thanks for answering though.:cheers:
Grip would be sacrificed, that's for sure. But 4wd cars are somehow able to retain theirs over other drivetrain layouts during rainy conditions because of obvious reasons.
 
128
Portugal
Alvalade
I know we’re getting a bit off topic for the thread here, but I’m genuinely curious about this kind of stuff.

What about General Relativity and the “Einstein Effect”, light bending around objects with mass and gravity. Where does that fit into the picture, is that Newtonian or Quantum?

If someone was to try to simulate light in a game like GT, as opposed to “painting” it on a static scene, would simulated light come from the same engine as the simulated Newtonian physics, or a separate engine?

What about a dynamic model of water, ie, rain is actual water droplets that fall, pools of water splash when driven through, the water flows downhill, etc. I would assume that would all be Newtonian physics....but at what depth of simulating the water, let’s say down to the individual molecule, would you cross from Newtonian to Quantum? And if simulating water to that level, would it come from the same engine that is simulating light, or a different one?

I´m not an expert but your confusing thing´s, gravity bends the light but we can only notice that at a very large scale objects like planets not in a street full of lamps, you need proper methods and technology to be able to see that effect.

About what matters next gen we will have Ray tracing to emulate light effects in real time but it´s a heavy duty really dunno if PD will implement it in the next GT, in terms of hardware wise only nvidia cards on pc suport it and really affects performance, Nvidia 2080TI worths more than 1000€ and really strugles to maintain 60fps overall, very few titles support it.
 
3,011
United States
Louisville Ky
RlNSKY I is an L
I get that some people like wet weather driving but for the life of me, I can't understand why.

How can you enjoy it?:confused:

Because it's a challenge without the real life consequences one would face in wet weather conditions. Although it will probably be more enjoyable in player ran lobbies than in Sport Mode.

I think Tokyo Expressway is a great choice for new wet weather conditions as it will give us both wet and completely dry track conditions on the same track at the same time. Something not found in previous GT titles that I can remember.
On larger real life tracks its been known to rain on part of the course and be completely dry on the other half. Now we will have a wet track with dry tunnels making tire choices more difficult if its implemented right.
A dry track will chew through wet tire compounds at a super fast rate making it important to keep your tires in water as much as possible. With the dry tunnels that's impossible so if it's implemented right we could see an aspect of this game for the first time in making tire compounds and wear even more crucial. I sure hope it's done right.
 
6,232
Canada
Canada
Because it's a challenge without the real life consequences one would face in wet weather conditions. Although it will probably be more enjoyable in player ran lobbies than in Sport Mode.

I think Tokyo Expressway is a great choice for new wet weather conditions as it will give us both wet and completely dry track conditions on the same track at the same time. Something not found in previous GT titles that I can remember.
On larger real life tracks its been known to rain on part of the course and be completely dry on the other half. Now we will have a wet track with dry tunnels making tire choices more difficult if its implemented right.
A dry track will chew through wet tire compounds at a super fast rate making it important to keep your tires in water as much as possible. With the dry tunnels that's impossible so if it's implemented right we could see an aspect of this game for the first time in making tire compounds and wear even more crucial. I sure hope it's done right.
The tunnels on SSR7 in GT5 & 6 stayed dry when it was raining.

Edit: if I remember correctly, back in GT4 when there was a wet version of SSR5, I’m pretty sure the tunnel at the start of the lap stayed dry as well.
 
105
Uruguay
Uruguay
That’s just it though...light is physics. The laws of physics that make a car stick to the road and bounce over curbs are the same physics that cause light to reflect off a puddle. I’m saying it’s odd to have a “lighting engine” and a “physics engine” when both would be modelling the same laws.
Lighting engines don't actually calculate light rays bouncing off surfaces - that's why stuff like reflections are always so complicated to make and why Ray Tracing is a big deal.
 
2,331
England
Reading
cutback73
Hmmm, just a thought but if there was an update coming on Tuesday 24th September, there would be a good chance (but no certainty) of a Japanese bird tweeting a silhouette in the next few hours. Unless he gets distracted by the Rugby World Cup and forgets all about it...
 
745
Antarctica
Antarctica
I get that some people like wet weather driving but for the life of me, I can't understand why.

How can you enjoy it?:confused:

Perhaps because it makes it easier to drift? I struggle to see how even the bottom half of a+ down will be able to handle this. People asked but do people really want?

But in terms of going fast? No.
 
841
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
I struggle to see how even the bottom half of a+ down will be able to handle this.

Wet FIA RBR on Wednesday with 4 A+ and 16 D rated drivers, all SR S. There were some offs but it wasn't absolute carnage, people learned pretty quickly just to enter corners slower and be more gentle on power.
 
347
Austria
Austria
Fun in the same way Dark Souls is fun,its all about the challenge.
Don't get me wrong, I like challenging conditions.
But while I like how challenging/tough it is to hike 5h to reach a peak in the Alps, I would not like doing the same thing in Afghanistan.

I think night conditions are not very well done in GT sport, and seeing how hard it was IRL for drivers to race in SPA this year, I don't particularly want to try it in GT sport.
 
2,775
England
England
kilesa4568
I struggle to see how even the bottom half of a+ down will be able to handle this. People asked but do people really want?

I did a couple of Gr2 custom races there yesterday to try and find some love for it but failed badly.

The only challenge was in trying to get the power down a little quicker but it was a bit of fun keeping the wheels spinning up to 3rd gear and trying to keep the car straight. Had a couple (or five) of unnecessary spins doing that but had to stop when the AI caught up.:P

Wet FIA RBR on Wednesday with 4 A+ and 16 D rated drivers, all SR S. There were some offs but it wasn't absolute carnage, people learned pretty quickly just to enter corners slower and be more gentle on power.

It slows you down so much though that it ends up feeling like a Monday morning commute and the noise! WTF is with all that noise? Has the RBR been moved to Borneo in the monsoon season?:lol:

It's not for me. It feels crudely implemented with real grip and almost cosmetic with low grip.
 
841
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
it ends up feeling like a Monday morning commute

Maybe that's why I feel so at home, it reminds me of "normal" UK driving conditions :lol:.

I like the Gr2 campaign races at RBR and didn't get repeatedly punted in the FIA race like I was expecting so have been enjoying it. There is a sense of danger. Well, actual real danger of spinning off. Makes it exciting. Just my opinion of course and yeah it could be better, I would love it so much more if there was standing water that you could feel pull on your car as you went through it, and a dry line that emerges based on where cars are going rather than baked in like a racing line marker.