GT4 Acceleration Times vs. Real Acceleration Times

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Just a topic of interest for those who want the ultimate simulation from their real-life cars. This is for car buffs.

In GT3, the acceleration times of several cars were off from their real life counter parts. I believe this was partially due to the gear ratios.

For example, driving a stock Integra Type-R I had quarter mile times w/manual tranmissions at around 16.2. 0-60 was clocked at around 8.0 seconds.

In reality, the car should do 0-60 with an above-average driver in the low 7.0s. Sport compact car actually managed to hit 14.2 in one issue. I have no idea how, but a realistic quartermile time for the ITR would be high 14s. When I modified the transmission (performance enhanced) and put in the real ITR gear ratios, the times dropped to mid 7s.

In GT4, the Integra Type-R is having the same problem. I guess it's just the transmission again. I owned a 98' Type-R in reality and I can feel the difference still in the tranny + engine rpm. It's nothing major, but I just wish it was done up perfectly. The car in the game seems to lack the 'spirit' the car really possesses. The real ITR could be redlined and ripped around the track and you would get that feeling of a race car (fwd nonetheless) yet the stock ITR in the game lacks that. A few adjustments to the ratios and perhaps a fly wheel changes that.

Anyways thumbs up to the engine sound enhancements. You can distinctly tell the difference between a b16, b18, h22 and the new k-series engines. The vtec crossover point is not as obvious in the game but it's good enough for now.

On another positive note, the s2000 feels like my track 01' s2000 in all characteristics. Amazing. Quartermile times are respectable (14.4), handling is tack on and the ratios are good enough. I'm going to compare the M3 in the game to the 02' I own shortly after extensively driving it in GT4. :dopey:

Anyone owning the same car in reality have comparison comments? I will post up comments from my friends regarding their cars.
 
most of the lower horse power cars in GT3 are geared for a much higher top speed than they are in reality.

even the evos were geared for a much higher top speed than they are in reality.
 
I'd rather say those false times are due to the low grip of FF cars in Gran Turismo when accelerating from a standing start. I think they always aimed too low on this, the grip should have been higher, which would mean lower 0-60 and 1/4 mile times.
 
Would be nice if the acceleration was accurate, I was always dissapointed that GT2s top speeds were wrong (massively so on a number of cars) & the GT4 demo didn't look too promising in top speed realism either.
 
T5-R
Would be nice if the acceleration was accurate, I was always dissapointed that GT2s top speeds were wrong (massively so on a number of cars) & the GT4 demo didn't look too promising in top speed realism either.
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I agree with you there. It looks like PD is missing some sort of air resistance or CD (coefficient of drag) calculation or possibly both. An example of this is the RX8 in the Japan demo. You could hit 164 MPH on the back straight on the Ring. In reality you could maybe hit 150. Others who own can varify this with other cars. Is this a calulation that PD had to leave out due to lack of processing power?
 
Zarkoff500
I agree with you there. It looks like PD is missing some sort of air resistance or CD (coefficient of drag) calculation or possibly both. An example of this is the RX8 in the Japan demo. You could hit 164 MPH on the back straight on the Ring. In reality you could maybe hit 150. Others who own can varify this with other cars. Is this a calulation that PD had to leave out due to lack of processing power?
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There is air resistance and slipstreaming and that, I guess they just don't want to finetune the parameters of 700+ cars.
 
I doubt its due to lack of processing power as it was a problem in GT2 also. Its abit worrying after PDs 'car handling overhaul' if in the final GT4 the top speeds are still inaccurate. Anyone with GT4 care to confirm this?
 
Guys, this is a PS2 where talking about...

Were not going to get precise engine sounds throughout the RPM band, were not going to get near perfect 0-60, were not going to get near perfect ¼ mile times, were not going to get near perfect top speeds, were not going to get the weather change on the endurance races, were not going to get near perfect handling on the cars, were not going to get every car manufacture and every car model made for every year/style, were not going to get this, and were certainly not going to get that either.

Yea there will be some mess-ups and bugs in the game, but keep this in mine.

PS2 w/ controller: $149.99
GT4 49.99

With tax that’s two hundred bucks and some change. What do you expect for two hundred bucks? I think the game is fine. Yea it’s not as accurate as real life, but that’s why we call it real life. Because its real ;) GT4 is a game, and that’s why we call it a game.

This isn’t a flame, and I’m not jumping on everyone’s back, just trying to point out that were getting what we paid for, if not more :)
 
One thing I was really miffed at in GT3 was the top speeds of some higher end cars, it wasn't small differences either, one of the more notable ones was the TVR Speed 12 which struggled to hit 140-150Mph in GT3, now even though the car has never been tested for top speed it's rated at 240Mph+ and common sense tells you it's a 220Mph+ car even if you don't see it hitting 240Mph.
 
Taneras
Guys, this is a PS2 where talking about...

Were not going to get precise engine sounds throughout the RPM band, were not going to get near perfect 0-60, were not going to get near perfect ¼ mile times, were not going to get near perfect top speeds, were not going to get the weather change on the endurance races, were not going to get near perfect handling on the cars, were not going to get every car manufacture and every car model made for every year/style, were not going to get this, and were certainly not going to get that either.

Yea there will be some mess-ups and bugs in the game, but keep this in mine.

PS2 w/ controller: $149.99
GT4 49.99

With tax that’s two hundred bucks and some change. What do you expect for two hundred bucks? I think the game is fine. Yea it’s not as accurate as real life, but that’s why we call it real life. Because its real ;) GT4 is a game, and that’s why we call it a game.

This isn’t a flame, and I’m not jumping on everyone’s back, just trying to point out that were getting what we paid for, if not more :)
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Gotta agree with Taneras on this...!
Let's not focus too much attention at how incosistent GT4 is to rea life and just remember that we're talking about a game and no game is ever going to scratch the surface at being real life...no matter how hard the developer (PD) tries to make it real life...it'll just never happen!
 
Too right, it would take a computer that powerful and that much time to create thered be little point in it anway, especially if PD were making it, it's be KY the 5th in charge by the time it'd get released.
 
I dont agree with that at all.

How many games has the Gran Turismo franchise sold, something like 36 million? Do you have any idea how much money that is if each game sold for $50.00, or even $20? Let's say all 36 million copies sold for $20.00. $20 x 36 million = $720,000,000. Three quaters of a billion dollars; realistically it's over 1 billion, since most of us paid $50.00 when the game was first released.

I understand there are development/packaging/marketing costs etc. but it's a very small percentage of the final figure.

With that being said, I definitely think the game should be more realistic and true-to-life than it is. They tote it as being "THE DRIVE OF YOUR LIFE" and "THE REAL DRIVING SIMULATOR". Are they talking to you when they say that? because it's not the drive of MY life when NONE of the cars handle/accelerate/sound like their real life counterparts.

600+ cars (whatever the inflated number is now..) and half of them will never see my garage, and chances are, yours either. I say give the cars that everyone will use, REALISTIC traits, and program the others with the normal mediocre Gran Turismo handling/sound/performance.
 
Monster7
I dont agree with that at all.

How many games has the Gran Turismo franchise sold, something like 36 million? Do you have any idea how much money that is if each game sold for $50.00, or even $20? Let's say all 36 million copies sold for $20.00. $20 x 36 million = $720,000,000. Three quaters of a billion dollars; realistically it's over 1 billion, since most of us paid $50.00 when the game was first released.

I understand there are development/packaging/marketing costs etc. but it's a very small percentage of the final figure.

With that being said, I definitely think the game should be more realistic and true-to-life than it is. They tote it as being "THE DRIVE OF YOUR LIFE" and "THE REAL DRIVING SIMULATOR". Are they talking to you when they say that? because it's not the drive of MY life when NONE of the cars handle/accelerate/sound like their real life counterparts.

600+ cars (whatever the inflated number is now..) and half of them will never see my garage, and chances are, yours either. I say give the cars that everyone will use, REALISTIC traits, and program the others with the normal mediocre Gran Turismo handling/sound/performance.
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You can force them to develop a console that can handle millions of calculations of real physics:

1> Elasticity coefficient of tires (each model - Goodyeat, Yokohama, Michelin, etc.) of parts (yes, driveshaft is a little little little little little little little elastic) and etc.
2> Weight of EACH wheel that can be purchased. The same for tires. The same for seats, stock stuff like panels, backseats, extra tire, etc.
3> REAL drag that a car suffers when running, when in all situations.
4> Performance increasing of parts when cooling or heating (brakes, gears, engine)
5> Fuel consumption when fully loaded is different when almost empty.
6> Fuel consumption when car is stock is different when tuned.
7> Rainy days have less air density that dry days, so, drag is lower. AND, brakes works better on cold days.
8> Tarmac types like soft, hard abrasive or blablabla.

There can be a huge number of things we can imagine. Ask someone that studies engineering (I dont), and just get amazed of how many things and factors are necessary to make a game REAL.

And, when it has been all implemented and compilated in a beautiful software package, PS2 will not run it, neither xbox or whathever consoles existing today.

Do the following: buy Gt4, play it, enjoy. Let PD take their time to make a better game. I prefer waiting for better things step by step rather than getting AT ONCE, NOW, the better game of the universe. Then, when I complete 100%, ny life will be over.
 
@ Monster7:

That's a lot of money, but how do you know how much money Polyphony actually get's from that bunch? Do you know how much an artist gets when one of his CDs are sold? I tell you, it's not really much.

And Gran Turismo is not perfect when it comes to accurate acceleration, top speed and similar critera. But it's as close as it gets for the moment, and that is enough for me if I can buy that for 200$. 👍
 
Gran Turismo is pretty far away when it comes to top speeds and acceleration in the higher end cars, theres more accurate sims out there.
 
live4speed
... theres more accurate sims out there.
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such as?

Don't get me wrong, I don't wanna get in one of these fanboy arguments. But if there is a very accurate driving simulation out there, I'm eager to take a look at it.

Thanks! 👍
the Interceptor
 
GTR, GPL, many of the F1 games, theres a few but they're all on the PC. At least until Enthusia and Forza come out.
 
A good handful on the PC anyways, I like Live For Speed (no, not need for speed.."Live For Speed" on the PC with the driving force pro using 900-degrees 👍👍👍. Live For Speed S2 is coming out soon also ). I think GT5 will solve all these problems. Im thinking it will be announced at E3 2006 : pray : then come out Early 2008. Oh well, I guess til then Im just gonna have to deal with driving in real life :yuck:.. ;).
 
I honestly wouldnt put forza on the list of sims that are more accurate than gt4 but enthusia, sure. I believe gt4 is as close to reality as we can get on any console as driving goes. No sim is perfect, I'm sure GTR has flaws, same with pc sims. I really could care less about top speeds, car handling is really what I'm more concerned about.
 
At the moment it's said to be as good as GT4 by Tha_con who is playing a Beta build, other previews also say it's a trjue sim and the demo shows that it's at least on a par with GT, if only the controls were as good.
 
Well people have opinions, gamepro in their latest review of gt4 mention there being no console sim(exception of enthusia) actually come close to gt4 in driving physics.
 
But Enthusia is far closer to being finished than Forza. As for that article you can read similar comments about Forza in Forza previews as so on, the same reviewer could say the same thing about GT4 AND Forza simply not specifying that he's only talking about console sims on the same console.

Personally I'm holding Tha_cons preview in the highest regard out of all the Forza previews since he wasn't expecting Forza to be up to much. Anyway this isn't a Forza discussion, it's about how close to real life GT4's acceleration and top speeds are.
 
You are right, we are going ot but let me end this by saying, forza could very well be more accurate than gt4, seeing how gt4 is already done and pd isn't making any more tweaks. Who says the forza team isn't checking out gt4 so they can capitalize on pd?
 
Yes GT4 is a game but then the first iteration was in 1997(In Japan?) and I would've thought its top speeds & acceleration would be more accurate by now even if they are not perfect (which obviously isn't going to happen). Especially when their boasting how its track times are within 5% or whatever of real lap times.

TVR Speed 12 struggled to reach 150mph? :lol: Must be a flaw in the formula they use since most cars in GT games can manage 140+ (Even crappy 1.4 litre cars which is stupid).
 
I don't know how many of the people complaining about this, actually have GT4, but for the cars I'm using in GT4 it is very accurate in acceleration and top speed, I had a guy that owns an SS Commodore and in fact welded half his own car in the Holden factory! : ) take a spin around the ring in an SS yesterday and he said it's really close to the real car. The only complaint he had was that the N2 tires are perhaps not quite as sticky as the factory stock tires are, he thought somewhere a bit closer to the N3's would be more realistic. I've also played all the sims on pc and other consoles and I havn't seen one that is finished and you can buy that is as good as GT4 even with all it's flaws, GPL is great sure and was the best car sim for years and years, I can remember being blown away by it when it was released but it's getting old now, plus it's a totaly different beast, being old formula ones vs mostly modern production cars
 
The fact is, GT4 is not the most realistic sim out there, opinion doesn't come into it since thats a fact. a game like GTR features far more variables than GT4 and the telemetery data from the game and real life proves it's point, sure theres no knocking GT4 it's the best on a console, but even if the handling was as good as GTR's the power delivery still isn't and that my friend makes GT4 a less realistic sim than GTR. Remeber thats IF GT4's physics were as good as GTR's in every other aspect, but they arn't.
 
Look plenty of racing games might be better than GT4 sometime in the very near or very distant future, GTR, Enthusia, I'll even give Forza a chance although I wont go near it if it stays running at that shocking 30 frames a second, even GT5 if you want to go really far : ) but for the moment they aren't finished, true neither was GT4 :D but it is at least released and you can hold it in your hands unlike all those other games
 
SONY warns us, as we start each game, that GT4 may vary from real life.
So, I guess they were right, eh?

Cheers,

MasterGT
 
Taneras
Guys, this is a PS2 we're talking about...


PS2 w/ controller: $149.99
GT4 49.99
Click to expand...
Dont forget the memory card!: $24.99
Oh yes, it's 1080i now, 55" HDTV: $1,799.99
Component Cables: $49.99

Total: $2074.95

I hope it does have realistic accel times cause that is what I actually paid. (+8.517% tax)
 
Two of the worst cars in GT3 were the original Mini which had an 18 second 0-60 in the game and around 13 seconds in real life. The other car was the Audi Quattro which was 13 seconds in the game and around 8 seconds in real life.

Talking of wind resistance or whatever. I took a Lotus Carlton to the straightened Le Mans curcuit and it topped out at the correct speed (around 175 Mph). I haven't checked the figures, but the acceleration does not feel that special.
 

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