GT4 vs Forza [Let the battle begin]

[mrchicken&fries]

I must be blind, I swear the name of this thread was GT4 vs Forza... 💡

Anyway, I thought you observation were out of proportion. The sounds in Forza is very good. Buy a Acura NSX and take it for a spin. My neighbors has an Acura NSX and it sounds just like it.

He is just being technical and saying Forza doesnt sound accurate in dolby 5.1. He is very detailed in most of his crticisms but he concentrates on the negatives and gives slightly any attention to the positives. For instance Forza cars sounds are one of the most realistic soundign and accurate of any game probally. He doesnt mention that just says they sound bad because In dolby digital they.........

Now i would love to hear him talk about the physics a little.

 

[LegacySTI]

They are so many things wrong that you have said that I don't know where to start. You are worst the CobraGt, that is not small feat.

If you ask me, GT4 is way overhyped and overrated compare to Forza. I could go on and hour talking about all the GT4 graphics glitches which appear in the middle of the screen and yet you pick some little bitty details in the background like it was the end of the world.

I have an Onkyo 6.1 1000w Sound System with active sub of 220w. There is nothing wrong with Forza sounds. It's the best engine sound I ever heard in any game. GT4's sounds like a lawnmoyer compare to forza . When you put upgrade in your car, it actually change the car overall sounds. I won an Acura NSX last night and seriously the best NSX I ever heard. Sounds like the real thing.

Let's talk about gameplay. In GT4, it always the same thing : won a few race, upgrade your car to get more HP, put B-spec mode and win every single race. At least in Forza, when you upgrade your car, It changes the class of your car. You have to be carefull on your upgrade because your opponents changes depending on your car class.

in GT4, abs is a joke. you really have to hit the break extremly hard for a certain period of time before locking the brake. You call that realistic ? After playing around 3 hours, I had to purposely miss on purpose to hit the grass The game is so easy even with assist off. This where I think Forza differs from GT4. I have to admit that the car drit a bit easily in Forza. At least you feel like you are driving a powerfull machine. You have to be carefull with your throttle and brake. In GT4, it's almost full throttle at all time without penalities.

Amar, with all do respect, I mean I can understand that you prefer GT4. It's fine with me but all the nitpicking about Forza are more fanboyism talk then real objective observation : Oh no...The Tree doesn't have the same amount of leaves on it. The game is crap. Like the tree as anything to do with gameplay.

The day that you come up with a real objective observeration regarding Forza and that you do not blow it out of propertion, then i'll agree with you.

100% Agree.. I am no fanboy of any series, I just love racing games like GT4, GTR, F355 Challenge, and Forza.. they all have their pros/cons.

Forza just represents newer features, it is your latest and greatest racing game, of course older games like GT3 + GT4 will look dated in comparison. This only assures us that GT5+ will be even better than Forza. Competition is good..

Please stop the fanboyism, in the real world arguing about a video game earns you the "dork" awards.

 

[Raf Laureys]

100% undeliberately move by myself while making initial comment day before yesterday. Please, read all my posts without taking the name of the thread in account, and notice I didn't used any comparation of two games.

Just the fact you're critisizing the sound makes your posts very questionable. If you hit a wall it makes a bang in Forza and an NSX ( i know cos I have driven the real thing) sounds like an NSX and Porsches make noise . If you want to be this critical You could make a four page post about the flaws in GT4 right. I'm getting tired of this crap.

 

[Raf Laureys]

Just the fact you're critisizing the sound makes your posts very questionable. If you hit a wall it makes a bang in Forza and an NSX ( i know cos I have driven the real thing) sounds like an NSX and Porsches make noise . If you want to be this critical You could make a four page post about the flaws in GT4 right. I'm getting tired of this crap.

Don't get me wrong , I've been playing GT4 since the day of release and I like it very,very much but if you want to get all the cars you want you have to get trough some very boring races and have to do a lot of stuff wich is basically a waste of time, still I think GT4 is pretty great and It will remain attractive for a very long time to come but judging from the OXM-demo and the screens and vids I know Forza will be the new benchmark on consoles. Talking about simulationgames.

 

[mrchicken&fries]

Just the fact you're critisizing the sound makes your posts very questionable. If you hit a wall it makes a bang in Forza and an NSX ( i know cos I have driven the real thing) sounds like an NSX and Porsches make noise . If you want to be this critical You could make a four page post about the flaws in GT4 right. I'm getting tired of this crap.

There is probally so much positive in the sound compared to the negative its like ten thousand pound anchor holding down a dingie.

The surface sound on gravel etc. The collision sounds are more realistic than most games.and most of all t the car sounds are and tyre sound are one of the most realistic ive heard in any car game.and thts just from the demo.

Now lets hear u criticize the physics amar. I like to discuss physics.

 

[mrchicken&fries]

i think forza is like pgr2 without grip. still a great game, bit on the forgiving side, still cool. it seems to be made more user friendly. understeer is also lacking, with too much oversteer.

PGr2 might be a little bit more realistic than people think. Just because it has the name arcade stamped on it people that dont have any real clue about how realistic physics work automatically assume its physics are fake. When in reality its probally has more real like physics characteristics than a lot of racing games out there.and apparently it had trailling throttle based oversteer and apparently even GT3 didnt even have any sort of oversteer and definantely no throttle based.

 

[Raf Laureys]

There is probally so much positive in the sound compared to the negative its like ten thousand pound anchor holding down a dingie.

The surface sound on gravel etc. The collision sounds are more realistic than most games.and most of all t the car sounds are and tyre sound are one of the most realistic ive heard in any car game.and thts just from the demo.

Now lets hear u criticize the physics amar. I like to discuss physics.

Amar even called the DTM2 physics and Rallysportchallenge better than Forzas. DTM2 has a realistic feel to it with some cars but other classes (rally, F1, champcars anyone? ) are just a joke. Racecars don't float like that! Rallysportchallenge 2 is a great Rally-arcade simulationgame and a lot of fun and maybe better looking than Forza but if you're looking for realistic physics Forza's got the edge. He even mentioned NFSU in some of his posts. I have rented that and after 15 minutes it was out of my console and back in its box. DTM 3 is announced by the way.

 

[Raf Laureys]

PGr2 might be a little bit more realistic than people think. Just because it has the name arcade stamped on it people that dont have any real clue about how realistic physics work automatically assume its physics are fake. When in reality its probally has more real like physics characteristics than a lot of racing games out there.and apparently it had trailling throttle based oversteer and apparently even GT3 didnt even have any sort of oversteer and definantely no throttle based.

Agree, same with rallysportchallenge 2

 

[mrchicken&fries]

Agree, same with rallysportchallenge 2

I dont know about RSC 2. I heard they made the physics more arcade like than RSC1. When i played if for couple of minutes i remember the car having very unrealistic speeds around corners. I didnt spend much time with it. But u played it maybe u will know.

 

[LaBounti]

Why does anything amar have to say about forza end up with someone comparing it GT4 rather than focusing on Forza, hes not even mentioning GT4, sheez. It likes that all they think is GT4 when someone says something negative about Forza, nothing really worng just not mature. No one is defending forza, just bashing GT4. Its turing in to gamefaqs.com here.

I think Kinigitt put it best for the most part in his overview. No one is over lookin GT4's flaws but they over look the whole idea behind GT4. Forza has everything GT4 doest because thats what people wanted and they listened. I agree with amar about sacraficing frame rate to have more bells and whisltes is not the best way to claim the greatest xxxx. TOCA RD 2 has a great(trick slash technique) engine they sacraficed small details to get 20 cars skid marks damage etc. And I'm talking about the PS2 version.


By the way amar Rallisprot was not a first atempt. The game started as Rally masters for PC back in 99 i think. They just ruined the seires but made a new arcady game out of it.

 

[Raf Laureys]

I dont know about RSC 2. I heard they made the physics more arcade like than RSC1. When i played if for couple of minutes i remember the car having very unrealistic speeds around corners. I didnt spend much time with it. But u played it maybe u will know.

Yes it feels realistic to a certain point but it seems a bit speeded up. If you slow down the replay a bit it looks very convincing. I like it very much though. Better a game that feels too fast than too slow. Better a game that feels just right. If i had to choose between rallygames today its very close between RSC2 and WRC4 being nicely balanced.

 

[phatboi]

I been with PlayStation for the longest time. From GT1-4. Im at 43.2% on my GT4. I went out and bought an XBox 2 days ago and bought additional HD cables. I wasnt getting the full potential out of my HD widescreen with the PS2, thats why I bought the Xbox. For my first XBox game, I bought Forza Motorsports. There is a definate difference between GT4 and the Forza Motorsports in HD. GT4 is very accurate on what the car LOOKS like, but not what the car PERFORMS like. Forza Motorsports details on the cars sucks, but from what I can see from the performance side it seems somewhat accurate. How realistic is it to have a Dodge Frickin Neon SRT4 with all modifications beat a Honda Integra Type R DC5 454hp with all modifications (including a stage 3 turbo). The Type R runs a 12.6 in a 1/4 mile. Tell me that aint right. If I put a stage 3 turbo on my Type R, I can gurantee it will run better than a 12.6. Atleast with Forza, the Type R runs a whole lot faster and can keep up with the other cars and even passing them too. When a Neon SRT4 beats your TURBO Type R, you know something is not right. My max speed on my Type R in Forza is 186 mph. Im not sure how accurate that is buts a lot better than what the Type R in GT4 is offering. The Type R looks different on Forza though. Its not the Type R wheels. Looks like they put layer and layers and layers of clear coat on the cars cause theyre hella shiny. Verdict: I love my GT4 for the accurate car details but not for the performance. I like Forza for giving the Type R more potential and an optional engine swaps on certain cars but not for the crappy car details. Thats all folks

 

[F1GTR]

Maybe it's because the neon has more power than the ITR?

 

[cobragt]

I have driven a Integra Type R and it doesn't oversteer like the one in forza. I mean, the Integra is a freaking FF car, why should it oversteer?

 

[code_kev]

Because your crap at it.

But really, who knows! It's a mystery.

Agree, same with rallysportchallenge 2

RSC2 is pure awesome-ness.

 

[kinigitt]

I have driven a Integra Type R and it doesn't oversteer like the one in forza. I mean, the Integra is a freaking FF car, why should it oversteer?

because the gameplay is tuned that way, just like GT4 is tuned to play safe and simple. it's a compromise in the realism department, but it's easy to deal with, because the game is FREAKING FUN.

 

[Devedander]

So I have to admit I did not read all 5000+ posts leading up to this, but I figured I would add my 2 cents anyway...

I LOVED GT2 (I never played GT becuase at that time I was not interested in sim car games and by the time I was GT2 was out) and bought a PS2 pretty much to get GT3.

I love the GT series and GT4 is an excellent game... I have to say the art style in GT4 and the way it visuals feel are superb and are not overtaken by Forza.

But like everyone else I have been pissed off about 2 MAJOR points in the GT series... it's a driving sim... and it does simulate driving very welries I have always felt like no collision damage, and no punishment for poor driving is about as bad as driving with the D pad.

After all a simulation game should simulate how valuable skill in driving is. I can't tell you how many times I played against people in GT3 that were HORRIBLE drivers who slammed into every wall and every car and WON doing it! I just love carefully underbreaking to pass my buddy on the inside just to have him tbone me on the next turn, bounce off and speed away...

Well that's how it is with people... but at least I can count on the AI for a fair and solid race... oh wait, no I can't... the AI STILL drives a rail and STILL doesn't pay any attention to my car or where I am. I hate the fact that the AI will storm up behind me when I brake a little too early and slam right into me.. tell me what driver that is simulating... NOBODY WOULD EVER REALLY DO THAT!

So when I heard all the news about enhanced AI and realistic damage in Forza I heald my breath, but didn't dare hope it would be as good as it was said to be simply because if GT couldn't get it half right, how could Forza get it at all right?

But when I got the real game and hooked up my MadCatz wheel (which BTW despite no force feedback and a weakass rumble system DOES self center and feels great going through corners) and jumped into my first race I was no where near prepared for what I got.

After a quick hop through the menu to turn off all assists and SL I finally got my taste of what has to be the best racing sim on a console to date.

First off I have to note that the graphics in Forza seem boring and somehow stale to me. Technically very well done, but not as stylish and polished as GT4, and that did not make me happy. The car sounds were good overall and I liked the 5.1 support but the music sucked so much butt I couldn't believe it. Fortunately I prefer to have no music and just hear the car and the driving sounds, but from what I understand the hideous soundtrack is made up for by the abiilty to use your own soundtrack, and so since I assume everyone has music they would consider good for a sountrack I think right off Forza wins the music category by default: EVERYONE has the perfect soundtrack.

So the race starts off and I and getting a feel for my wheel and just barely avoid kissing a wall in the first 100 meters. As I come up on my first real turn I realize I am going in WAY too fast and slam on the breaks locking me up and leaving me at the whim of any other drivers, and right in my rearview barreling down on me is a car which obviously was taking the corner much better than I and set to ram right into me...

I watched with the same pissed off anticipation that has followed me through GT and lamost every other racing game waiting for the car to bash me right off the outside of the turn... and it doesn't!

To my surprise the car slams on it's breaks, weaves a little and settles in right behind me at an idiotically slow speed and it occurse to me that it must have known at my angle and speed it was not going to be able to pass me on the inside before hitting me, and by the time it slowed down enough to not hit me, could no longer accelerate enough to pass me on the outside!

I was blown away...

The next big turn I did kiss the wall on my right front fender and took some damage (in the car view so I couldn't see it but I knew I must have) and much to my pained joy had to fight my steering wheel to avoid veering off the track for the rest of the race!

Now we can all watch videos, and look at pictures all we want to get an idea of how it looks and sounds... but I don't buy sims for looks and sounds (well I want decent looks and sounds but you get the idea) I bought this for a solid racing experience and in the first race I had found a solid AI, excellent gameplay, a very good if not superb looking game and it only got better from there.

After hours of racing, tuning an incredibly adept yet deep tuning system and finding tidbits at every corner (FINALLY I can tune a car and test drive it without have to leave load and reload at every change, and why did it take this long to get it setup to where the race lets you choose a car that is allowed right at the beginning of the race, and even load the setup you want for that track!?) and I have to say that I still love GT4, but after seeing what Forza did, I have to say that my gut reaction was right... GT4 is GT3.5. More polish, more content, but only minorly improved in it's heart.

Forza did right off the bat what GT hasn't been able to do in years... and yes I do believe GT5 will kick the crap out of Forza... but I can only hope Forza 2 will pick accel also and give us the small details missing from Forza that GT has (content and polish).

In the end I have to say I won't be selling my GT4 or PS2 anytime soon, but it's not likely to get nearly as much use as it once did. If it wasn't touted as the best "simulator" out there I wouldn't hold it as much against GT4, but after playing Forza, trying to look at GT4 as a simulator is like trying to convince yourself a combover does not mean you are going bald... it's missing something that's just WAY too obviously not there: True, solid, intelligent gameplay.

 

[BlackZ28]

Wow, buddy, thats way too much **** to read.

 

[Gabkicks]

Wow, buddy, thats way too much **** to read.

lol. you gotta learn how to speed read my friend.
Some people dont see the importance of condensing their posts.

 

[amar212]

Never said a word about physics of TOCA RD 2 and RS being better then Forza, that's bull and inputing. Read better, or become politician, you have the necessary abilities alright.

Never said that visuals and sound are more importamnt then racing and physics. Bull too. Republican, yes?

Always said: this game is a tehcnical flop that got the most astonsihing scores which does not deserve. It was my only motivation to talk critic about it.

As fo physics - it is amusive. It allowes you to drift pretty funny, cars hold the track pretty fine, braking is OK, it's fine alright. Not supernatural but fine.

The best three things in Forza are AI, decals with ability to have all my cars painted in white, with carbon hood and red side-mirrors and 3D rims-in game (last one was a joke).

Still, TRD2 AI - with 21 cars on the track, just for notice - was much better when set to maxximum, and that is the undeniable fact.

Online is far the most important part of Forza, together with damage, but it is obvious that damage on this scale - as a pure copy of damage system seen in TOCA RD 2 - can't be good in terms of gameplay in single player. Works much better as a part of online community as long as the ideal situation with 8 propper drivers on the track, which will probably happen one day.

Still, you just can't say that game is superb because it has decent AI, online implementaion, damage, decals and paint and Ferrai and Porsche licence on the paper. It takes much more than that.

 

[newbielives]

If you think rallysportchallange 2 has realistic physics, please play Richard Burns Rally or Rally Trophy and tell me how they compare.

They are in a whole different world.

Agree, same with rallysportchallenge 2

 

[Gabkicks]

yes... rallysport challenge is the king of rally games and makes all the others look like poo poo IMO.

When comparing the "feel" of forza to GT4, i guess people are trying to look over the detail in feeling the Driving force pro gives over the wheel made specificly for forza?

 

[JohnBM01]

As I was chatting with people and stuff about this game, I said the game is a complete package, all ready for anyone with an XBOX ready to play. If I ever get a great long-term test of Forza Motorsport like I first did GT4, I'd want to study EVERYTHING about the game. I'm a racing game fan and racing fan, so I want to try study the game like a test (don't remind me... I have Finals next week!).

During one of my conversations, I said that all Forza Motorsport was trying to do is either one of two things: (1) show off what ALL real racing games need to have to be successful, or (2) exploit the weaknesses of its rival, Gran Turismo 4, and take advantage of them. I've been on GTPlanet since December 5th, 2003. I've seen almost everything from compliments to complaints, rants and raves. No Ferrari or Porsche- FM has it. No car damage- FM has it. Better AI- FM... ??? No online play- FM has that, and then some. Basically, I've seen this as an attempt to exploit GT4's weaknesses (apparent weaknesses to some) and try to capitalize on them. As I said, it does have my favorite race car, the Ferrari 333SP as raced by Houston-based sportscar team, Risi Competizone. But as I've stated, I possibly wouldn't play Forza, even if to only race Ferraris and Porsches. Even then, I'd want to try out the many different environments. At one point, you're racing a pure road course, the next, you're racing in scenes more industrial than some parts of Special Stage Route 5 (GT4). Then, while the New York courses in Forza looks pretty similar to GT4's course, the Tokyo track is completely different from GT4's variant, making a sophomore appearance.

Amar212, based on your in-depth post (Post #5330 (https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showpost.php?p=1633697&postcount=5330)), you think that Forza Motorsport has a lot going for it, but lacks any real execution. (1) Do you think the game focuses too much on exploiting what GT4 doesn't have and not focusing enough on being its own cult game? (2) Do you think Forza is basically a game that lacks any real inspiration? (3) In your opinion, is Forza going to be the next Sega GT, in terms of a GT killer but fails in most or all aspects of a GT game?

 

[Raf Laureys]

If you think rallysportchallange 2 has realistic physics, please play Richard Burns Rally or Rally Trophy and tell me how they compare.

They are in a whole different world.

I know what you mean with RBR. I've played the PS2-demo until I could reasonably complete that stage and I was getting very excited about it and was planning on buying the X-box version wich I rented first. It had so much terrible frameratedrops it became annoying so no RBR for me,thanks. I haven't tried Rally Trophy yet. RSC2 is not that realistic, I know but it feels like rallying and is so much fun. RSC2 is what you could call arcadesim if you like, a bit like you could call PGR2 arcadesim too I guess. They sacrificed some simulationelements to make them fast and playable and they both succeeded very well. I never have been bored with these games for a second.

 

[Devedander]

RSC2 is some slick racing. Agreed it's pretty far off from a sim, but damn if that's not one of the most fun racers I have every picked up and one of the most incredible looking games anywhere.

And as for that Forza attempting to exploit the areas that GT4 failed at... you could look at it that way...

But isn't GT4 just a LOT of really pretty cars on a semi decent framework of a game? So basically what GT4 is missing is an awful lot... if you got a game that has everything GT4 doesnt and still looks decent... well that sounds pretty darn near perfect.

 

[Raf Laureys]

To Amar212 . I'm sorry I didn't get some of your quotes right and I have no political ambitions thanks. I will very much enjoy the technical flop called Forza like many others.

 

[amar212]

Come on man, please be resonable - it ain't going you or me - it goes to Microsoft and Forza team.

My criticysm about Forza is not towards anyone who's plaing Forza - because I'm playing Forzavery excesively. Do not take it personal.

 

[Symtex]

Come on man, please be resonable - it ain't going you or me - it goes to Microsoft and Forza team.

My criticysm about Forza is not towards anyone who's plaing Forza - because I'm playing Forzavery excesively. Do not take it personal.

If you play Forza excesively, don't you think the Forza' s team shouldn't get fired ? They did a marvelous job and all you did was throw a dagger in their back.

 

[amar212]

If you play Forza excesively, don't you think the Forza' s team shouldn't get fired ? They did a marvelous job and all you did was throw a dagger in their back.

The fact that I'm playing it doesn't mean I take it as perfect. There are many games I've played and I still have lots of complaints on them.

I do not see where's the problem with that?

And I still think they all should get fired, yes.

 

[Symtex]

The fact that I'm playing it doesn't mean I take it as perfect. There are many games I've played and I still have lots of complaints on them.

I do not see where's the problem with that?

And I still think they all should get fired, yes.

Wow. have you ever think that you might be over critical. Please don't ever make a video game because you'll get shred to pieces