GT4 vs Forza [Let the battle begin]

[askia47]

also cars crash into you when you spin out

 

[Cosmic]

In gt4 prologue , you've got so much better grip then in gt3.
That's one differnce.

 

[tha_con]

Umm askia, ofc I havn't played, as I said before, all I'm doing is judging vids, screenies, previous games etc, and I said it looked good. The same thing I'm doing with Gt4 tbh.

cobra, I could stick you in a real smegging car, and you would still say Gt4 was more realistic

I love how he allways avoids the car off the cliff question

If that is the case then you no longer have the grounds to hype up these features:

Tuining
AI
Physics

Because as of now, these three look extremely simple.

Tuning is based on a 1-10 scale, you buy parts to improve a certain rating, hardly anything close to in depth.

AI looked a little simple minded, and 4 months will be a squeeze to fix all of this.

Physics looked a little undefined, some cars floated, some cars stayed stuck to the ground, cars bounced, and cars had minimal body roll.

Granted you're right this is not complete, but these three features, along with all of the things that have to be dead on (clipping, collision, textures, securing frame rate, network code, menu's, etc) will take loads of work, so either we'll see something get shorthanded, or we'll see forza get pushed back.

As of now it is not what it has been praised to be. Regardless of what the features are, damage will not make it a better racing simulator. Reverse lights will not make it a better racing simulator. Tire marks will not make it a better racing simulator. Even the tire pressure will not make this a better racing simulator.

Without the main aspect being done right, everything else is in jepordy. A sandwich without bread is merely meat.

 

[code_kev]

deleted, why bother, we shall see when they are out.

 

[tha_con]

I'm not saying forza will not be an enjoyable game, just making a statement because you are giving it entirely too much credit with too little knowledge and backing, am I right or wrong?

It's one thing to be hopeful, it's another to constantly point out flaws in one game (GT4's textures, the "2 car convertable" thing, GT4 only has 6 cars, no online, etc) yet here we are, looking at Forza, which has deomonstrated a few qualities unbecoming of what you hype it to be...yet still you refuse to say "there is a chance this game will NOT be what I expect it to be".

I'm not looking for you to not like forza, or stop hoping for it, however I am looking to make you see that you cannot, and I mean CANNOT point out negatives of one game, while creating false positives for another and expect to directly compare the two.

GT4 has flaws, however for the most part, they are simply cosmetic, and the AI suffers a bit. But to this day, do you expect any other console racing simulator to emulate what has been produced with the gran turismo series in ONE SHOT? I doubt it.

 

[Front]

Tuning is based on a 1-10 scale, you buy parts to improve a certain rating, hardly anything close to in depth.

I'll post a screenshot but it's 100% not based on rating, your a moron even thinking that.

AI looked a little simple minded, and 4 months will be a squeeze to fix all of this.

You sound simple minded don't judge somthing you have not played, you have seen crappy IGN video's and the AI is crap and unrealistic you have no idea what difficulty the game is on and what level the AI is at "drivetar"

Physics looked a little undefined, some cars floated, some cars stayed stuck to the ground, cars bounced, and cars had minimal body roll.

The car's looked as if they handled realisticly

Granted you're right this is not complete, but these three features, along with all of the things that have to be dead on (clipping, collision, textures, securing frame rate, network code, menu's, etc) will take loads of work, so either we'll see something get shorthanded, or we'll see forza get pushed back.

The IGN videos we're the demo version which doe's not affect the actual product this is prob an older build they had to release for promotion.

As of now it is not what it has been praised to be. Regardless of what the features are, damage will not make it a better racing simulator. Reverse lights will not make it a better racing simulator. Tire marks will not make it a better racing simulator. Even the tire pressure will not make this a better racing simulator.

Your so full of crap...

Damage:
Would Toca Race Driver 2 be as good as it was without damage of course not it add's an element of danger and make's you drive more realisticly rather than taking any corner at any speed without any element of danager.

Reverse Lights:
Online I'd enjoy the warning that someone is reversing it's hard to judge at 150+mph

Tire Mark's:
The track is ever evolving the more you race the more a racing line develops over time which is invaluble for braking points etc....

Tire Model:
Microsoft worked with Toyo on the tire model which accounts for heat, presure and other facor's, yeah real driver's go around a track with the tires gripping 100% the same no matter what, don't be a fool !

Without the main aspect being done right, everything else is in jepordy. A sandwich without bread is merely meat.

Mabye they should stick in a ****ty rally mode which is so fake when the rest of the game is begging for an overhaul, or Photomode or B-Spec who give's a toss about the core element of the game or the AI for an OFFLINE only game.

GT's core element has never been perfect yet you drivel on about Forza look at the true offender Gran Turismo.

 

[code_kev]

tha_con, Ive said MANY times, "if forza is crap, MEH, I'll just buy Gt4". Now that would suggest a realisation that forza may not be all that it's cracked up to be. Just because I've said it looks good, and it has features that interest me, hatdly means I've proclaimed it the best game ever.

And earlier I've commented on the 30 fps thing, the silly AI and it not looking as realistic, I'm hardly some raving fanboy. FFS I just want as many decent racing games as possible

1-10 system? Where.

 

[tha_con]

Code: Point taken, I agree and well posted, we are at an understanding.

Front: Ignored.

 

[tha_con]

1) I'll post a screenshot but it's 100% not based on rating, your a moron even thinking that.

2) You sound simple minded don't judge somthing you have not played, you have seen crappy IGN video's and the AI is crap and unrealistic you have no idea what difficulty the game is on and what level the AI is at "drivetar"

3) Reverse Lights:
Online I'd enjoy the warning that someone is reversing it's hard to judge at 150+mph

4) Tire Model:
Microsoft worked with Toyo on the tire model which accounts for heat, presure and other facor's, yeah real driver's go around a track with the tires gripping 100% the same no matter what, don't be a fool !

5) GT's core element has never been perfect yet you drivel on about Forza look at the true offender Gran Turismo.

Numbered for ease of replys...I couldn't hold back...your far too easy a target.

1) I can post a screen where you see a part to buy and how it will effect the overall rating...doesn't seem to indepth to me.

2) Right...because IGN recieves lower quality demo builds than everyone else...here's a tiny news flash...gravity physics and collision physics do not change with different settings or assists...and Driveatar effects agression and driving habits, I don't think it effects "running into parked cars" could be wrong though.

3) If you can't tell a car standing still (because that's what it will look like) from a car moving forward...you should not be playing...go practice with another racing sim before you get online.

GT3 had tire wear. It was never always 100% in GT3 (prefessional league). Toyo tires suck, and their reputation as a company is nothing to brag about in the car industry. Furthemore, you cannot say that it will represent tire wear in a realistic manner because you have not played it, and it has not even been demonstrated. The effects could be minimal, and unnoticeable.

5) GT's Core element is not perfect, no, however, they do not spend more time focusing on other elements, photomode is a simple addition, rally mode, eh, easy yes.

On another note, I have to comment on your "element of danger" statement.

I find that crushing your car for minimal degraded performance is not as big a deturrent than the 10 second penalty imposed in GT4. the penalty is far more harmful to your position and outcome (all be it not "simulator"). I'm more concerned with the out come of the race, this will encourage me to avoid wreckless driving much more than scratching my paint.

 

[code_kev]

The 10 second thing can go to hell and die.

 

[tha_con]

The 10 second thing can go to hell and die.

lol, why do you say that?

 

[askia47]

I'll post a screenshot but it's 100% not based on rating, your a moron even thinking that.



You sound simple minded don't judge somthing you have not played, you have seen crappy IGN video's and the AI is crap and unrealistic you have no idea what difficulty the game is on and what level the AI is at "drivetar"



The car's looked as if they handled realisticly


The IGN videos we're the demo version which doe's not affect the actual product this is prob an older build they had to release for promotion.



Your so full of crap...

Damage:
Would Toca Race Driver 2 be as good as it was without damage of course not it add's an element of danger and make's you drive more realisticly rather than taking any corner at any speed without any element of danager.

Reverse Lights:
Online I'd enjoy the warning that someone is reversing it's hard to judge at 150+mph

Tire Mark's:
The track is ever evolving the more you race the more a racing line develops over time which is invaluble for braking points etc....

Tire Model:
Microsoft worked with Toyo on the tire model which accounts for heat, presure and other facor's, yeah real driver's go around a track with the tires gripping 100% the same no matter what, don't be a fool !



Mabye they should stick in a ****ty rally mode which is so fake when the rest of the game is begging for an overhaul, or Photomode or B-Spec who give's a toss about the core element of the game or the AI for an OFFLINE only game.

GT's core element has never been perfect yet you drivel on about Forza look at the true offender Gran Turismo.

From what i played yesterday the AI doesnt learn...its just goes fast when you screw up....that could be changed however.


I played Forza and it is a decent game!

for those who dont know

 

[code_kev]

Because it's annoying! When your kicking ass on citta, then you tap the side slightly, 10 seconds at 50 is PAINFUL, and ruins your time.

 

[askia47]

i liked that feature.

 

[_aj]

Before a post is made regarcing the 1-10 system and blown right out of proportion to insult as much as possible I would just like to point out that yes Forza has a 1-10 rating in tuning and car performance, this is for the casual gamers who can pick up and play and say "oh 8 is more than 7.6, I'll take this car". However you can press a button that will toggle the rating into a more real world perfomance outline.

I'm not sure how it works but there's 2 methods, 1-10 for the casuals and those who just wanna add something and see it speed up their car and those who can buy it, tinker with it and get the best performance out of it.

Code: mate you're posting some really cool and intelligent posts, is this what happens when cobra isn't around? lol
I agree about the more good racers is best opinion as well basically it's true.

 

[code_kev]

Code: mate you're posting some really cool and intelligent posts, is this what happens when cobra isn't around? lol
I agree about the more good racers is best opinion as well basically it's true.

Awwww thank you
I guess that *sniff* with cobra not about atm, i can't indulge in the ye olde human element argument

 

[tha_con]

I like it aswell, because it penalizes you for being to greedy. IMO, this is much more realistic and comprimising than the damage. In forza you can run into a wall at 150, smash your hood, and only lose 4 seconds...

 

[Front]

1) I can post a screen where you see a part to buy and how it will effect the overall rating...doesn't seem to indepth to me.

Yeah I know the 1-10 thing you are talking about but if you watched the video's which I doubt you have you would see they give you stat's for all the car's the 1-10 thing is for people who don't understand bhp and torque and what not it does change into real stats.

2) Right...because IGN recieves lower quality demo builds than everyone else...here's a tiny news flash...gravity physics and collision physics do not change with different settings or assists...and Driveatar effects agression and driving habits, I don't think it effects "running into parked cars" could be wrong though.

I'm honestly reserving my right to make a judgment until the demo come's out, I do think Drivatar would be responsible for the way the car's we're acting. there was some unforgivible stuff like ramming the parked car, which I understand why you would be worried.

3) If you can't tell a car standing still (because that's what it will look like) from a car moving forward...you should not be playing...go practice with another racing sim before you get online.

Trust me in Toca 2 the reverse light's saved me from being wiped out from the track lot's of time's inconciderate racer's who have crashed mainly who reversed onto the track without even thinking that people are racing.

GT3 had tire wear. It was never always 100% in GT3 (prefessional league). Toyo tires suck, and their reputation as a company is nothing to brag about in the car industry. Furthemore, you cannot say that it will represent tire wear in a realistic manner because you have not played it, and it has not even been demonstrated. The effects could be minimal, and unnoticeable.

Again wait until the demo I'll judge then.

5) GT's Core element is not perfect, no, however, they do not spend more time focusing on other elements, photomode is a simple addition, rally mode, eh, easy yes.

When I race a simulation it's never crossed my mind hmmm mabye I can take some pretty picture's of my car, don't get me wrong I love car's, but taking picture's of my virtual car is hardly going to get my blood pumping.

If I want photography I'll buy Evo.

On another note, I have to comment on your "element of danger" statement.

I find that crushing your car for minimal degraded performance is not as big a deturrent than the 10 second penalty imposed in GT4. the penalty is far more harmful to your position and outcome (all be it not "simulator"). I'm more concerned with the out come of the race, this will encourage me to avoid wreckless driving much more than scratching my paint.

Even Toca's damage was leniant to say the least but it made me more carefull in corner's and made me concider other racer's around me even if Forza managed to get it on Toca's level it would enhance the game greatly.

But Microsoft are talking FULL simulation damage, and I think it will either be the demo or the full release that you will see it implemented and whenever it is i'll make a judgment.

I won't base my entire judgment from the video's I can draw points from them but I won't judge until I've personally played it.

 

[code_kev]

The damage on the vids seemed quite impressive actually, I liked how bits came off, then stayed on the track, tis a nice touch. Well you'd probs loose more then 4 seconds, you do have to get back on track, and get back back up to speed, plus I think they said damage would effect the performance on the car, which if they get right, could be damn sweet, especially if you have to do stuff like pay for repairs etc. But 10 second penalty, ARGGG!!! 10 seconds at 50...it drives (get it) me insane. I WANNA GO FAST!!!

Front, I some how doubt that full damage simulation thing btw...

Speaking of damage, any one seen flatout? Man that's gonna be fun! CRASHHHH!!!

 

[askia47]

your car can flip and you keep on going..which isnt that realistic, and not that much stuff comes off

 

[_aj]

One thing that seemed umm ...strange to me on the Forza vids, is I kept wondering are the ads freshly painted before every race as the amount that comes into the car is quite amazing. Also a head on impact twice would kill the car (and the driver probably), so the damage model we seen in the 350Z vids was not full on. Also I am pretty sure that the 350Z stays at the same angle for a while rather than turning more when it heads the wrong way up the corkscrew and almost flips. Sounds are amazing especially that evo, BUT and it's big jlo ass but, what is with the impact sounds? Car head-on into car does not sound like someone runninf into a wire fence with some wooden boxes on top. lol

 

[askia47]

Front when does this demo come out? probably the same one as i played...

 

[code_kev]

Yeah, but you can't expect Richard burns rally realism...

*bump at 3mph*

"your gear box seems damaged"

*Game Over*

....

 

[_aj]

code bit exaggerated, that's more Peugeot or Ford, their reliability sucks. Stalling cars is great though, makes you feel like an idiot.

 

[Front]

One thing that seemed umm ...strange to me on the Forza vids, is I kept wondering are the ads freshly painted before every race as the amount that comes into the car is quite amazing. Also a head on impact twice would kill the car (and the driver probably), so the damage model we seen in the 350Z vids was not full on. Also I am pretty sure that the 350Z stays at the same angle for a while rather than turning more when it heads the wrong way up the corkscrew and almost flips. Sounds are amazing especially that evo, BUT and it's big jlo ass but, what is with the impact sounds? Car head-on into car does not sound like someone runninf into a wire fence with some wooden boxes on top. lol

Yeah that looked kinda..... unrealstic..

mabye there was someone on the other side throwing paint onto the car

Front when does this demo come out? probably the same one as i played...

If the version you played had 3 tracks it's a different version the demo come's with pre-order's of Halo 2 and has 1 track which is Laguna Seca and 12 car's.

 

[code_kev]

I know lol but it's quite funny when ya first play it

"right first corner, I'm gonna power slide round it at 50 mph"

*brum brum...*

*CRASH*

"WTF"

*hits restart*

 

[_aj]

I actually passed the Rally School for a mate, then his comp crashed and we found out that RBR doesn't auto-save. GRRRRR.

 

[erahk64]

AI looked a little simple minded, and 4 months will be a squeeze to fix all of this.

Or it's possible that the latest videos are not of a recent build and they have fixed the AI already. There are indications that the videos are of a older build, for example only 4 cars while the final game will have 8 cars according to the info.

 

[erahk64]

But Microsoft are talking FULL simulation damage, and I think it will either be the demo or the full release that you will see it implemented and whenever it is i'll make a judgment.

It's probably the performance damage that will be fully simulated, not the visual damage.

 

[tha_con]

It's probably the performance damage that will be fully simulated, not the visual damage.

by your logic, the car should stop running after a head on collision with anything at 150mph, and should not be drivable in the condisions that the game is capable of.