GT4 vs Forza [Let the battle begin]

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Well, I've never visited Laguna in real life. And truthfully, the amount of grass doesn't worry me. But I've seen lots of in-car video from both actual races and from amateur track days, and in terms of track width and proportions of some of the corners, I feel that GT4 has it better than Forza. Forza's track felt like it was too narrow and a number od the corners were too acute - some of the sweepers seem like they've been tightened up into doglegs.

I'm no GT4 fanboy; I'm aware of the flaws. Perhaps a more real car would feel better in Forza. But the LMP car was ridiculous.
 
Ok explain this to me. If they took 20,000+ pics of each raceway, how did they get the entire shape/color of the Gift shop wrong?

And Duke i'm assuming you played the same demo that everyone else is judging forza on. The Demo that's from a build almost a year old, so keep an open mind about it ALOT can be done in a year. Hell Halo 2 was made in 6-9 months
 
I've got no idea what it was. It was running on a Xbox under glass in Toys R Us with the controllers sticking out on little robot arms. I hadn't seen it there when I was in a few months ago.
 
I'm assuming it was of Leguna Seca....With the choice of the Following cars

2003 Nissan 350Z Track
2004 Subaru Impreza WRX STi
2004 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VIII GSR
2004 Acura NSX
2005 Chevrolet Corvette C6
2004 Ferrari 360 Modena F1
2003 Porsche 911 GT3
1999 Dodge Viper GTS ACR
2001 Audi #1 Infineon R8
1999 Toyota #27 GT-ONE TSO20
1999 BMW Motorsport #15 V12 LMR
1996 Ferrari #12 Risi Competizione F333SP


But yea, that's the olllllllddd build.
 
Driftster
Ok explain this to me. If they took 20,000+ pics of each raceway, how did they get the entire shape/color of the Gift shop wrong?

And Duke i'm assuming you played the same demo that everyone else is judging forza on. The Demo that's from a build almost a year old, so keep an open mind about it ALOT can be done in a year. Hell Halo 2 was made in 6-9 months
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First, it's perfectly fair to judge the game on the demo since it's all we have at the time. People judge GT4 by GT: Concept and GT: Prologue until GT4 was released.

Second, uh, I'm seriously doubting that Halo 2 was made in less then a year. Do you have anything to back you up on that?
 
Halo 2 started being made shortly after the first one was out in the shops.
 
Thank you for proving my point LFS and code kev.
 
lol, I honesty think Driftster was thinking of Halo 1... Which is said to have been quite a rush job (if exceedingly well-done at that).

Also, you all are getting all confused. The clipping I cited from Motor Trend is regards to GT4. (I'm not sure what Driftster was thinking, now. I'm confused my damned myself. :lol:)

And fianlly, check Tytarian's links. I can't run the intro video right now coz I'm on an ass computer, but those screenies... They don't tittilate me.

The first -very first- thing you notice about these Xbox games is their glorious absence of aliasing. So, that's nice, but there's just stiiiill that something missing, isn't there? "Something" which GT4 has, and Forza doesn't.

People say the color pallet is more lifelike; that the saturation is turned way down from that of Gran Turismo. Well at the risk of sounding like a girl, Gran Turismo is plain prettier.

<shrug> so i dunno
 
that forza demo is ancient, it is really stupid that you are comparing the demo of forza with the full GT4.
i have read a review in xbm, it sounds fantastic, looks brilliant, beleive me, the demo looks nothing like the final game, i think forza will be nicer too look at than GT4 and it might just edge ahead in gameplay because of the option to make your own racing paint scheme
 
GT_Fan2005
that forza demo is ancient, it is really stupid that you are comparing the demo of forza with the full GT4.
i have read a review in xbm, it sounds fantastic, looks brilliant, beleive me, the demo looks nothing like the final game, i think forza will be nicer too look at than GT4 and it might just edge ahead in gameplay because of the option to make your own racing paint scheme
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In terms of graphics, I don't believe Forza has a chance at beating GT4. Simply because of all the stuff that it has to do at the same time. Like rendering interiors, damage, drivatar(nice feature đź‘Ť ), etc.

But it just may edge it out on gameplay. But we'll have to see.

I really get annoyed when people say things like "This demo is so old" and "How can you compare it, that demo is ancient" Well, if memory serves, before GT4 was released, all the comparissions between GT4 and Forza were based on either GT4 Prologue or worse, GT3 in some cases. But the Forza fanboys had no problem with that. Now that Forza's been pushed back and GT4 released, the fanboys are declaring that the Forza demo is too old to compare to GT4. Amazing huh?

I'm of the mind that Forza will be good, but not the game that GT4 is. And I say that from a standpoint of history. We have NOTHING to base a judgement of Forza on except an "ancient" demo. At least GT4 had a track record of three prequels.

So, which is it? Base our current judgements on a demo or completely dismiss the possiblity of Forza being a good game until it's released. Hmm...sounds a lot like the anticipation of GT4 to me. :sly:
 
I dunno tbh, if we look at history, GT3 was crap, and PD are hardly inovators anymore, not since GT1 anyway. Gt4 is really good, but it suffers from being abit dull and tame at times. With the experience the forza team have, meh, I see no reason why it can't be as good tbh.

In terms of graphics, some vids have pretty much spanked GT4, especially the Nurb vid I saw, the track detail was pretty sweet. It doesn't look quite as realistic still, though.
 
i agree with you fully there code kev, gt4 can get very boring at times, and it feels your either doing to little or too much racing which is weird.

the graphics are great , swift you say that it has too render interiors and everything, they are just using the xbox powers, doing the things GT4 cant do yet still getting amazing graphics, both games are good, GT4 is tried and proven formula, 700+ cars etc it is big and is fun, but forza i think is bringing in stuff that we wanted too see in GT4, race modifying (in a way of designing your own), some serious tuning elements in the engine area, damage, interiors, drivers, ferrari porsche, it what we wanted in GT4 and didnt get.
There will however be problems, there always is in these games, i remember reading about forza and it saying, " you can find yourself playing in the menus with your car settings and tune ups etc and not spending much time racing" however it then sed not that its a bad thing so it may be very fun.
also forza hasnt wasted time on cars no one wants, there isnt 20 skylines, there arent any euro boxes, there are no daihatsu midgets or 2cv's, its worst car is probably along the lines of the mini cooper S or the honda civic type r so there is no bad car in this game.

The car class system is very good in forza, the lowest classes include evo 8 and impreza and elise, the middle categories have skylines, db9, tuscan, 355 360, viper etc and then the top classes have the top supercars, enzo, zonda, carrera Gt, koenigsegg etc and race cars with your usuals.
GT4 has no classes.
The race car modifying will be fun and lots of time can be spent as well as another thing we wanted in GT4 being the online racing.

Its going to be a close fight and despite being a GT fan at heart forza will be the first game to truly put up a battle, and it is a battle that can be won.
 
GT_Fan2005
i agree with you fully there code kev, gt4 can get very boring at times, and it feels your either doing to little or too much racing which is weird.

the graphics are great , swift you say that it has too render interiors and everything, they are just using the xbox powers, doing the things GT4 cant do yet still getting amazing graphics, both games are good, GT4 is tried and proven formula, 700+ cars etc it is big and is fun, but forza i think is bringing in stuff that we wanted too see in GT4, race modifying (in a way of designing your own), some serious tuning elements in the engine area, damage, interiors, drivers, ferrari porsche, it what we wanted in GT4 and didnt get.
There will however be problems, there always is in these games, i remember reading about forza and it saying, " you can find yourself playing in the menus with your car settings and tune ups etc and not spending much time racing" however it then sed not that its a bad thing so it may be very fun.
also forza hasnt wasted time on cars no one wants, there isnt 20 skylines, there arent any euro boxes, there are no daihatsu midgets or 2cv's, its worst car is probably along the lines of the mini cooper S or the honda civic type r so there is no bad car in this game.

The car class system is very good in forza, the lowest classes include evo 8 and impreza and elise, the middle categories have skylines, db9, tuscan, 355 360, viper etc and then the top classes have the top supercars, enzo, zonda, carrera Gt, koenigsegg etc and race cars with your usuals.
GT4 has no classes.
The race car modifying will be fun and lots of time can be spent as well as another thing we wanted in GT4 being the online racing.

Its going to be a close fight and despite being a GT fan at heart forza will be the first game to truly put up a battle, and it is a battle that can be won.
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If Forza is just "using" the Xbox powers, then why doesn't it run at 60 FPS? You should know that I'm not bad mouthing Forza. I'm just saying that it's annoying to me when Microsoft puts out a demo, then people say "don't judge the game by that!" Why the heck not? I know it's not going to be up to par with what they have now. But since we can't get to that....

BTW, wouldn't a Cooper and a civic be in a lower class then an Evo 8 and Elise?

GT4 has drivers of convertibles and that's really the only place you need them. Porsche and Ferrari is a licensing issue, not a production decision on the part of PD. Damage, well that's debatable whether it's good or bad. Nobody can deny the online thing. Wish it was in GT4.

All I'm saying is that now that GT4 has been released, we can see all its flaws, but none of Forza's. So of course Forza has that "grass is greener on the other side of the fence" effect right now. After it's released, and we see all of its flaws, I'm pretty sure the games will fall even. Besides, the Forza team has PD's success and mistakes to learn from. I know people keep saying that GT hasn't been innovative in a long time. ThatÂ’s true, but when you set the benchmark for the entire industry, why mess with a winning formula. Look at the new BMW 3 series. It's just more of the same goodness that's made the 3 so great. Sure, they tweak this and tucked that. They gave it a little more HP and a bit more room (adding cars and tracks) But it still drives, rides and feels like a BMW. I think that was the effect PD was going for with GT4. I wish there would be a few more innovative things with it myself, but at the same time, I'm glad they didn't mess up what already works so well.
 
If Forza is just "using" the Xbox powers, then why doesn't it run at 60 FPS?
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Well considering it has to handle some rather complex stuff like damage, more cars on tracks, AI, better sound, physics at least on par, the complex tyre stuff, wall marks, oil spills, higher poly counts on cars and especially tracks etc etc, and lighting effects that are to put it simply "abit" more hardware intensive on the hardware then GT4's, then you kinda realise why it runs at 30. It's an xbox, it has it's limits :). OFC I'd prefer 60 fps XD, look at RSC2, still IMO the best looking console racing game by about THIISSSSSSSS much.
 
code_kev
Well considering it has to handle some rather complex stuff like damage, more cars on tracks, AI, better sound, physics at least on par, the complex tyre stuff, wall marks, oil spills, higher poly counts on cars and especially tracks etc etc, and lighting effects that are to put it simply "abit" more hardware intensive on the hardware then GT4's, then you kinda realise why it runs at 30. It's an xbox, it has it's limits :).
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I agree, completely. But the stance that GT_Fan2005 was taking made it sound like doing all those very processor intesive things would be cake for the Xbox to pull off. The 30FPS proves that is not the case. That's the only thing I was trying to say with that statement.
 
Swift
GT4 has drivers of convertibles and that's really the only place you need them. Porsche and Ferrari is a licensing issue, not a production decision on the part of PD.
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Actually if anyone watched FithGear last night they covered the GT4 launch party in London, they said "Sony annouced they were asking for too much money" regarding Ferrari and Porsche, so it seems that all this about exclusive licenses IS finally over and it is just a matter of money now.
 
live4speed
Actually if anyone watched FithGear last night they covered the GT4 launch party in London, they said "Sony annouced they were asking for too much money" regarding Ferrari and Porsche, so it seems that all this about exclusive licenses IS finally over and it is just a matter of money now.
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Hmm...I know that EA's or microsofts exclusive license was or did end. But i'm not sure how it applies to the game. Whether it was grandfathered in or not. Meaning if a game started production before the end of the exclusive deal, could it be released after it was over.

I'm really suprised at that and would ike to see a little more detial about the Porsche Ferrari comment.
 
Swift
BTW, wouldn't a Cooper and a civic be in a lower class then an Evo 8 and Elise?

.
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yeah, the two lower classes are D and C so i guess the cooper goes in D and elise evo8 etc go in C, then theres B which i think would have skyline, 355 etc and A which will be 360 viper etc, then theres S which will be enzo, carrera gt etc and R will be race cars.
 
GT_Fan2005
yeah, the two lower classes are D and C so i guess the cooper goes in D and elise evo8 etc go in C, then theres B which i think would have skyline, 355 etc and A which will be 360 viper etc, then theres S which will be enzo, carrera gt etc and R will be race cars.
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That's great, but I don't get how that's a big deal or makes it better then GT4 in that particular regard.
 
It's just a way of getting a general idea of how well the car should perform, it's hardly revolutionary. It's a nice addition but not one that will make a huge ammount of differenece. I do know that some events will be limited to cars in certain groups, so don't always tune your Civic so much it moves up a group.
 
But you have to remember, from what i've heard you can take lower class cars into the upper class races in Forza in order to gain more points for your drivatar and what not. But anywho Forza's going to be a great racing game. GT4 would have been a good racing game if they didn't hype it up to be the "racing simulator to end all racing simulators for a console" because it's not and they know it's not. In all honestly the graphics arn't that nice in GT4, i'm not saying Forza's are flawless either because they're not but GT4's graphics look at times like they just popped a half ass skin on a model then layered on stickers, and the designs really make no sense even if you look close, it's almost as if they took GT3 models and maybe even whole cars and just added some stuff here and there. How can they get a almost perfect curve on a spoiler without jaggies, but the A-pillar on a car looks like friggin Mario Pinball

As for Halo
Dude, go watch the DVD that came with the special edition. Sure there was a 3 year period where the game was being made, but they spent a good 60-80% of that either playing MP, sitting on their asses, or argueing.

If they REALLY spent 1095 days making halo then their production team sucks azz
 
Driftster
But you have to remember, from what i've heard you can take lower class cars into the upper class races in Forza in order to gain more points for your drivatar and what not. But anywho Forza's going to be a great racing game. GT4 would have been a good racing game if they didn't hype it up to be the "racing simulator to end all racing simulators for a console" because it's not and they know it's not. In all honestly the graphics arn't that nice in GT4, i'm not saying Forza's are flawless either because they're not but GT4's graphics look at times like they just popped a half ass skin on a model then layered on stickers, and the designs really make no sense even if you look close, it's almost as if they took GT3 models and maybe even whole cars and just added some stuff here and there. How can they get a almost perfect curve on a spoiler without jaggies, but the A-pillar on a car looks like friggin Mario Pinball

As for Halo
Dude, go watch the DVD that came with the special edition. Sure there was a 3 year period where the game was being made, but they spent a good 60-80% of that either playing MP, sitting on their asses, or argueing.

If they REALLY spent 1095 days making halo then their production team sucks azz
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I saw it. Alot of them sat on their butts, and spent time on creatures that didn't work with the game.
And made maps that absolutely didn't help at all.
 
Driftster
But you have to remember, from what i've heard you can take lower class cars into the upper class races in Forza in order to gain more points for your drivatar and what not. But anywho Forza's going to be a great racing game. GT4 would have been a good racing game if they didn't hype it up to be the "racing simulator to end all racing simulators for a console" because it's not and they know it's not. In all honestly the graphics arn't that nice in GT4, i'm not saying Forza's are flawless either because they're not but GT4's graphics look at times like they just popped a half ass skin on a model then layered on stickers, and the designs really make no sense even if you look close, it's almost as if they took GT3 models and maybe even whole cars and just added some stuff here and there. How can they get a almost perfect curve on a spoiler without jaggies, but the A-pillar on a car looks like friggin Mario Pinball

As for Halo
Dude, go watch the DVD that came with the special edition. Sure there was a 3 year period where the game was being made, but they spent a good 60-80% of that either playing MP, sitting on their asses, or argueing.

If they REALLY spent 1095 days making halo then their production team sucks azz
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LOL, GT4 doesn't look all that good. Well, since it's a matter of opinion I can't say you're wrong. But show me a driving game on the PS2 that looks better.

Sounds like you've got a lot of hate for GT4, did they wrong you in some fashion?
 
Swift
LOL, GT4 doesn't look all that good. Well, since it's a matter of opinion I can't say you're wrong. But show me a driving game on the PS2 that looks better.

Sounds like you've got a lot of hate for GT4, did they wrong you in some fashion?
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YES they DID wrong me.

You don't realize how much I anticipated this game, how long I waited for this game. And the 400+ dollars I spent to play this game the day it came out. Only to be extremely!!!!!! dissappointed. I mean I didn't expect them to make THE PERFECT game, but my god I didn't expect Gran Turismo 3: B-spec
 
Driftster
YES they DID wrong me.

You don't realize how much I anticipated this game, how long I waited for this game. And the 400+ dollars I spent to play this game the day it came out. Only to be extremely!!!!!! dissappointed. I mean I didn't expect them to make THE PERFECT game, but my god I didn't expect Gran Turismo 3: B-spec
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400$? Uh, 50 for the game, 150$ for the Wheel and I guess you didn't have a PS2, so that's another 150$. So that's 350$. Did you get speakers and a TV also?

I love video games, but I don't spend a lot of money on them. Or should I say, more then I have to. I rarely by new games. But hey, if that's your thing, it's cool.
 
Actually the game came out to 60 dollars US, the wheel came to 170 the Ps2 came to 170 there was a 50 dollar add on for the 3 year warrenty because I don't trust Ps2's since that is my 3rd and 15 for the memory card.

that's 465, and it's still 415 if you don't include the "unrequired" warrenty and 400 if you don't include the "required" memory card.

I'm just glad I didn't order this stuff online or it would have been more due to shipping.
 

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